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Old 10-12-2015, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
My answer is I really do not know. But I can make a few guesses based upon life experience as a Christian years and now as a Muslim

1.Most theists have a desire to give to those we love and Theists love God(swt)

As we have nothing to give Allaah(swt) Allaah(swt) has provided a way we could.

2. As there are no instructions on how to pray in the Qur'an we follow the example Muhammad(saws) on how he prayed.

3. It is a way to unify Islamic communities. although there is no obligation to prayer in a Mosque. But neighbors will often join together for prayer in each other's houses. Very many, perhaps most Muslims do not pray in a Mosque.

4. The 5 obligatory prayers are probably also a test.
The above are ineffective answers and that is why there is so much problems with religious believers when they misunderstand the essence of prayers and praise to God, idols, deities, dictators or the devil.
Why prayers and praises to God can be easily explained via psychology and other fields of knowledge.

1. All humans are infected with an inherent state of psychological desperations, angsts, anxieties, despair, hopelessness due to an existential dilemma.

2. The above desperations are strongly suppressed in some while the majority of humans are either vulnerable to the above consciously [rarely] or subliminally [most].

3. Humans invented religions [which comprised belief, surrender, praise the higher up, prayers, etc. ] to ease the sufferings of psychological desperations described in 1. The fact is religions do give immediate relief to the sufferings and angsts. Just believe and viola! one is saved and eased, however there are side effects.
92:7. Surely We will ease his way unto the state of ease.
87:8. And We shall ease thy [Muhammad] way unto the state of ease.
4. Prayers and praise are critical elements within the religious set to deliver the state of ease.

5. When one prays and praise, the neurons in the brain and mind are synchronized in a certain way that generate calmness and strengthen inhibitions of the desperate psychological state. The non-religious can use tranquilizers, meditation, drugs, sports, etc. to achieve the same effect.

6. Praising God [the highest authority] also cultivate a certain state of mind to ease the psychological religious desperations. For the secular it is praising a dictator or someone of higher authority or superiority in certain aspects of life. In a secular situation, note for example of the North Koreans' zeal, fervor and intensity in the manner they praise their Dictator Great Leader. The psychological effect is the same as a theists praising God. The reality is in the mind or the one praising and how it eases the psychological desperation [fears from insecurity] within. The contents of the prayers help but they are secondary.

7. The above is no issue as long as the whole set of the religion is benign. However it becomes a great issue and a threat to humanity if the religious set [of a religion] contain malignant evil laden elements that influence SOME of the followers to commit evil and violence on non-believers.
It is just the same with the secular situations where citizens praise, 'pray' and idolize their Great Leader with evil ideologies [Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, and the likes].

The above are 'prayers' and 'praise' in the correct perspective within the grand scheme of humanity.

Last edited by Continuum; 10-12-2015 at 11:29 PM..
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Old 10-13-2015, 10:20 AM
 
10,540 posts, read 15,612,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Thank you for pointing that out.

I completely overlooked your main question



My answer is I really do not know. But I can make a few guesses based upon life experience as a Christian years and now as a Muslim

1.Most theists have a desire to give to those we love and Theists love God(swt)

As we have nothing to give Allaah(swt) Allaah(swt) has provided a way we could.

2. As there are no instructions on how to pray in the Qur'an we follow the example Muhammad(saws) on how he prayed.

3. It is a way to unify Islamic communities. although there is no obligation to prayer in a Mosque. But neighbors will often join together for prayer in each other's houses. Very many, perhaps most Muslims do not pray in a Mosque.

4. The 5 obligatory prayers are probably also a test.

Thank you. This is a very good answer - because it is sincere. People are afraid to sa "I do not know" as they think it will somehow diminish them. This is wrong and based on sin of vanity. There is nothing wrong with not knowing any answer to any question. One may then let it be or may look deeper into finding the answer, thus being rewarded with pleasure of acquired knowledge.
I understand where you come from.
Based on premise #1, giving a praise to God is voluntary. Agreed. I think, you know what I am trying to say.
Interestingly enough, as abundant as there is number of churches and houses of prayer in Christian community, Lord Jesus never said to go to church to pray. He also gave a one and only prayer to be used - and then followed by volumes of various prayers chanted and recited all over the world.
I am grateful for your premise #3. there is no obligation to prayer. Is this relevant to "mosque" only, as it can be easily relayed to as "there is not obligation". Also, relays to what I mentioned above in Christian dogma.
Thank you for your words.
Be blessed and let The Light be with you.
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Old 10-13-2015, 10:25 AM
 
10,540 posts, read 15,612,109 times
Reputation: 11857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The above are ineffective answers and that is why there is so much problems with religious believers when they misunderstand the essence of prayers and praise to God, idols, deities, dictators or the devil.
Why prayers and praises to God can be easily explained via psychology and other fields of knowledge.

1. All humans are infected with an inherent state of psychological desperations, angsts, anxieties, despair, hopelessness due to an existential dilemma.

2. The above desperations are strongly suppressed in some while the majority of humans are either vulnerable to the above consciously [rarely] or subliminally [most].

3. Humans invented religions [which comprised belief, surrender, praise the higher up, prayers, etc. ] to ease the sufferings of psychological desperations described in 1. The fact is religions do give immediate relief to the sufferings and angsts. Just believe and viola! one is saved and eased, however there are side effects.
92:7. Surely We will ease his way unto the state of ease.
87:8. And We shall ease thy [Muhammad] way unto the state of ease.
4. Prayers and praise are critical elements within the religious set to deliver the state of ease.

5. When one prays and praise, the neurons in the brain and mind are synchronized in a certain way that generate calmness and strengthen inhibitions of the desperate psychological state. The non-religious can use tranquilizers, meditation, drugs, sports, etc. to achieve the same effect.

6. Praising God [the highest authority] also cultivate a certain state of mind to ease the psychological religious desperations. For the secular it is praising a dictator or someone of higher authority or superiority in certain aspects of life. In a secular situation, note for example of the North Koreans' zeal, fervor and intensity in the manner they praise their Dictator Great Leader. The psychological effect is the same as a theists praising God. The reality is in the mind or the one praising and how it eases the psychological desperation [fears from insecurity] within. The contents of the prayers help but they are secondary.

7. The above is no issue as long as the whole set of the religion is benign. However it becomes a great issue and a threat to humanity if the religious set [of a religion] contain malignant evil laden elements that influence SOME of the followers to commit evil and violence on non-believers.
It is just the same with the secular situations where citizens praise, 'pray' and idolize their Great Leader with evil ideologies [Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, and the likes].

The above are 'prayers' and 'praise' in the correct perspective within the grand scheme of humanity.

But that was not my question. I am pretty sure, with no disrespect to Woodrow and Islam community, that "obligation" to pray = praise - a God that does not require a praise was instilled upon believers by that particular religion secular leadership. Aka priests. God gave teaching. Humans made a religion out of it. Same happened with Christianity or, pretty much, any other religion.
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Old 10-13-2015, 10:52 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 752,279 times
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If you accept the false premise that there is a creator of the universe and that it is interested in us, then you'll never get a logical answer because you are starting out with an illogical foundation.

Your question was: "Why Does a Muslim Praise Allah?"

The answer is that the Quran (supposedly written by allah, their god) demands that they praise allah. If the demands for praise did not exist in the quran, and the quran instead said Muslims must never praise allah and that praise was evil and whomever praises allah would be roasted in hell, then no Muslims would be praising allah.

"The Muslim then stated that Allah doesn't care about receiving praise or being thanked, that the praise was for the benefit of the follower, making him feel better."

Obviously allah does care. Allah demands praise in the Quran over and over. Go to quran.com and do a search on praise.

Except that allah does not exist, so the writer(s) of the quran (I think Muhammed) put that in there. Why would Muhammed do that? IMO, Muhammed set up a scam religion so he could pretend to be a prophet and get away with evil and become a warlord. So it would be logical for Muhammed to demand praise for his god. If you were setting up a religion and writing a book supposedly from that god, wouldn't you have that god demanding praise? I would.

"My response was that if Allah does not care about the praise, then there is no good reason why the praise should make the follower feel better."

Exactly. What the follower would feel is endless obligation and massive fear. There is punishment if allah doesn't get his praise. Terrible, endless punishment.
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Old 10-13-2015, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
2,202 posts, read 1,426,603 times
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Allah is God in Arabic , but Allah is either the ancient moon God (pagan origins) which Islam claims no
alligence. Then Allah if God defaults to the non pagan "God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. but still that idea is corrupted to a degree via Islam's lineage to Ishmael? It's rare if ever that Muslims or Islamics state their version of God is linked to Abraham. They do not refer to the OT but rather substitute the Quran In which Mohammed was a contributing editor. The paradoxical mix of some truths and lots of religion dilute Islam in a similar way Catholicism dilutes scripture. Religion simply has an ordor of baloney! Humans are just victims of inherited religion gone bananas. At the end of the day Muslims believe they are praising God (one God) Allah and add PBUH ( Peace Be Upon Him).

Last edited by openmike; 10-13-2015 at 05:44 PM..
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Old 10-13-2015, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,584,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
But that was not my question. I am pretty sure, with no disrespect to Woodrow and Islam community, that "obligation" to pray = praise - a God that does not require a praise was instilled upon believers by that particular religion secular leadership. Aka priests. God gave teaching. Humans made a religion out of it. Same happened with Christianity or, pretty much, any other religion.
I was offering [to any one] one truthful perspective that make sense.

A Muslim must conform and comply to the Quran, i.e. the uncompromisable words of God.
'Prayers' and 'praise,' are mentioned in the Quran.
Therefore in this case the obligation to pray and praise God is a direct compliance to God's dictate and not as influenced by priests or any human leaders.

Regardless of religion or secular practices, all humans has the inherent potential compulsion to pray and praise to a higher-up.
What is critical and of concern to humanity is when such an inherent compulsion is packaged into a religion that has evil laden elements.
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Old 10-13-2015, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,289,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Thank you. This is a very good answer - because it is sincere. People are afraid to sa "I do not know" as they think it will somehow diminish them. This is wrong and based on sin of vanity. There is nothing wrong with not knowing any answer to any question. One may then let it be or may look deeper into finding the answer, thus being rewarded with pleasure of acquired knowledge.
I understand where you come from.
Based on premise #1, giving a praise to God is voluntary. Agreed. I think, you know what I am trying to say.
Interestingly enough, as abundant as there is number of churches and houses of prayer in Christian community, Lord Jesus never said to go to church to pray. He also gave a one and only prayer to be used - and then followed by volumes of various prayers chanted and recited all over the world.
I am grateful for your premise #3. there is no obligation to prayer. Is this relevant to "mosque" only, as it can be easily relayed to as "there is not obligation". Also, relays to what I mentioned above in Christian dogma.
Thank you for your words.
Be blessed and let The Light be with you.
I believe you will find that very many, perhaps most Muslims do not pray in a mosque. That is not just the result of choice, but a fact of logistics in numbers. For most countries including the Islamic nations there are not enough mosques to hold the number of worshipers.

Also there is no requirement to pray in a Mosque. Adult Muslim males are obligated to pray in congregation with other Muslim adult males once a week for the Jummat prayer. But that can be and often is in a persons home. Or even outdoors in any convenient location.
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Old 10-14-2015, 04:37 AM
 
39,120 posts, read 10,849,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
If a Muslim deliberatly chooses not to do any of the Obligatory prayers or any of the 5 pillars of faith, he has left Islam. What repercussions if any that would have, I do not know.

While we believe everyone who dies as a Muslim goes to Heaven, we do not who will go to hell. That is between the individual and Allaah(swt)
This question is a much better one than I thought it would be. It is the Q that goes with any religion with a hellthreat. Of course the question gets asked of Christianity more often but some Christians cannot accept the idea of hell - for compelling reasons. Islam is a religion that must have very few who believe the religion, but not in the hellthreat.

So, while the answer that worship is given more for ourselves than because the god needs or wants it, that pop-ups the Q of why..if it so darned unimportant to the god, hellfire is reserved for those who don't give it. Something doesn't stack up there.

Out of consideration for the feelings of our muslim or indeed theist pals, I'd suggest don't go near the 'God can do whatever he likes' argument.
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Old 10-14-2015, 05:25 AM
 
144 posts, read 107,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by openmike View Post
Allah is God in Arabic , but Allah is either the ancient moon God (pagan origins)
Source ?

I just remind you that arab jews and christians already used the word "Allah".
So did they also followed a "moon god" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by openmike View Post
Then Allah if God defaults to the non pagan "God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. but still that idea is corrupted to a degree via Islam's lineage to Ishmael?
What's the problem with Ishmael ? I don't understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by openmike View Post
It's rare if ever that Muslims or Islamics state their version of God is linked to Abraham.
Rare ? Never read the Quran i guess i suggest you to read this :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_in_Islam

Abraham is the first or second most quoted prophet in the Quran just before or after Moses.
How muslims won't say (or don't know) that we are linked to Abraham ?

First of all the connection with the pilgrimage (hajj) at Mecca with Abraham.

At the right the Abraham's station :





The Kaaba was built by Abraham and Ismael :

2.125 And when We made the House (at Mecca) a resort for mankind and sanctuary, (saying): Take as your place of worship the place where Abraham stood (to pray). And We imposed a duty upon Abraham and Ishmael, (saying): Purify My house for those who go around and those who meditate therein and those who bow down and prostrate themselves (in worship).

The Jamarat (were the stampeded happened) is a ritual were people throw stones to the pilars symbolizing the devil when he tried to discourage Abraham to sacrifice his son.


Abraham was the first one who called people to make the hajj :

22.26-27
And (remember) when We prepared for Abraham the place of the (holy) House, saying: Ascribe thou no thing as partner unto Me, and purify My House for those who make the round (thereof) and those who stand and those who bow and make prostration.

And proclaim unto mankind the pilgrimage. They will come unto thee on foot and on every lean camel; they will come from every deep ravine,


The religion that we follow, that Muhammad (saw) followed was the one of Abraham


Say: Lo! As for me, my Lord hath guided me unto a straight path, a right religion, the community of Abraham, the upright, who was no idolater.

16.123
And afterward We inspired thee (Muhammad, saying): Follow the religion of Abraham, as one by nature upright. He was not of the idolaters.


t's some non-muslims who like to believe or make believe people that we are "mahometans".
That we follow a religion that Muhammad created while it didn't start with him but since Adam.


Quote:
Originally Posted by openmike View Post
At the end of the day Muslims believe they are praising God (one God) Allah and add PBUH ( Peace Be Upon Him).
No we don't say PBUH for God but for prophets.
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Old 10-14-2015, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
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FWIW, some Christians - those who speak Arabic - refer to God as "Allah".
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