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Old 10-23-2015, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,611,346 times
Reputation: 461

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
To make it easy on me, Just addressing this one point at the moment


That is your approach, not what you find done by Muslims.

Islam is very individual and based on a personal commitment not though standardized religious teachings.

To practice Islam requires a direct link with no intermediaries a model being--Muslim<-Allah

While the Qur'an, Muhammad and Gabriel are tools we can and should use to achieve Muslim<-Allah

We can not use your model as Islam does not require perfection and the complition of specific acts as the criteria that will be judged are Intent, ability and knowledge. There is no check-list of accomplishments that must be completed to perform Islam.


a baby with no knowledge of Islam is one of the purist Muslims possible.

Past Prophets (Pbut), and their followers, with no knowledge of the Qur'an or Muhammad(saws) were true Muslims


what invalidates your premise is there are and have been a person can perform Islam with no knowledge of the Qur. Muhammad, or Gabriel. Only a knowledge of the existence of Allah.

Which makes the Basic and only all inclusive model as being Muslim<-Allah
I claimed a Muslim is grounded on the following;

Muslim = Islam = Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah [Quran-MGA]

.
Your model Muslim<-Allah is vague and not meaningful at all.

In this case how do you define 'What is a Muslim?"
According to your claim 'A Muslim is one who perform Islam.'
So how do you define 'what is Islam?'
According to you 'Islam is submission'
I countered 'Submission' is inferior than 'Believe'
In any case, how do one 'submit' and 'believe' [men of understanding]
One can only do that with reference to the Quran-MGA
Therefore, What is Islam and thus Muslim can only be Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah [Quran-MGA] and nothing else, i.e.
Muslim = Islam = Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah [Quran-MGA]

Quote:
a baby with no knowledge of Islam is one of the purist Muslims possible.
This is a ridiculous proposition.
A baby is merely a human being by nature even then the baby is influenced by the mother's mind. If a Hindu mother read Hindu stories loudly and sing Hindu hymns, the baby brain will be Hindu based the moment the baby is born. It is the same if the mother is of other religions.

From another perspective your logic is ridiculous.
In your case to make a baby as a pure Muslims his whole life, all one need is to put the baby into coma or a zombie.
The natural thing is a baby will be exposed to the world and to be the truest Muslims the baby will have to comply with Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah [Quran-MGA] and nothing else throughout his later life till J-Day [per Quran-MGA].

That baby could comply with God [Allah] as a monotheist his whole life, but if the texts and founder is the Bhagavad-Gita and founder Krishna, then he would be a Hindu and not a Muslim, i.e.
Hindu = Gita<-Krishna<-Allah
Btw Hindu call God, Allah as in monotheism, Brahman.
Hope you get my point.

There is no other way to be a Muslim other than the following principle;
Muslim as adherent of Islam = Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah [Quran-MGA] and nothing else.

Muhammad and Gabriel are NOT your tools. They are tools [intermediaries] of God to deliver the Quran for Muslims to adhere to. The formulation is as follows;

Muslim as adherent of Islam = Quran<- [(Muhammad<-Gabriel) tools]<-Allah [Quran-MGA] and nothing else.

Last edited by Continuum; 10-23-2015 at 11:41 PM..
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Old 10-24-2015, 05:15 AM
 
352 posts, read 311,890 times
Reputation: 54
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.



Quote:
In your case to make a baby as a pure Muslims his whole life, all one need is to put the baby into coma or a zombie.
The natural thing is a baby will be exposed to the world and to be the truest Muslims the baby will have to comply with Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah [Quran-MGA] and nothing else throughout his later life till J-Day [per Quran-MGA].
"Raise up a child in the way that it should go, and when it is old it will not depart from it." I have witnessed this quote time and time again, and I find it difficult to deny its actuality. Wassalaam. devotee




PressTV-Who is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi? Who is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi?


Over 100 Ba'ath Former Strongmen Lead ISIS: Intelligence Over 100 Ba'ath Former Strongmen Lead ISIS: Intelligence


This video is highlights the 'Jim Jones' mentioned in the Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi article above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKe3G1zMZ6A Jim Jones (Jonestown murder/suicide)
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Old 10-24-2015, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,611,346 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.

PressTV-Who is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi? Who is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi?


Over 100 Ba'ath Former Strongmen Lead ISIS: Intelligence Over 100 Ba'ath Former Strongmen Lead ISIS: Intelligence

This video is highlights the 'Jim Jones' mentioned in the Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi article above.
Jim Jones (Jonestown murder/suicide)
I have read of Jim Jones and all the famous so claimed agent of God.

Here are the phases of Rev Jim Jones's life which is very typical of any cult leader like Koresh, Warren Jeffs and others;

1. Experience altered states of consciousness and declared oneself to be an agent of God, etc.
2. Set out to preach his message.
3. Face initial objections and rejections .
4. Gathered a groups of core followers.
5. Achieve initial success and more followers
6. Face more aggressive objections, rejections and scrutiny.
7. Felt persecution by the media and others
8. Migration to Freetown (Guyana)
9. Increasing degrees of violence
10. Fighting with persecutors
11. Destruction by Suicide
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Old 10-25-2015, 05:26 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,393,176 times
Reputation: 7408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I claimed a Muslim is grounded on the following;

Muslim = Islam = Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah [Quran-MGA]

.
Your model Muslim<-Allah is vague and not meaningful at all.

In this case how do you define 'What is a Muslim?"
According to your claim 'A Muslim is one who perform Islam.'
So how do you define 'what is Islam?'
According to you 'Islam is submission'
I countered 'Submission' is inferior than 'Believe'
In any case, how do one 'submit' and 'believe' [men of understanding]
One can only do that with reference to the Quran-MGA
Therefore, What is Islam and thus Muslim can only be Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah [Quran-MGA] and nothing else, i.e.
Muslim = Islam = Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah [Quran-MGA]


This is a ridiculous proposition.
A baby is merely a human being by nature even then the baby is influenced by the mother's mind. If a Hindu mother read Hindu stories loudly and sing Hindu hymns, the baby brain will be Hindu based the moment the baby is born. It is the same if the mother is of other religions.

From another perspective your logic is ridiculous.
In your case to make a baby as a pure Muslims his whole life, all one need is to put the baby into coma or a zombie.
The natural thing is a baby will be exposed to the world and to be the truest Muslims the baby will have to comply with Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah [Quran-MGA] and nothing else throughout his later life till J-Day [per Quran-MGA].

That baby could comply with God [Allah] as a monotheist his whole life, but if the texts and founder is the Bhagavad-Gita and founder Krishna, then he would be a Hindu and not a Muslim, i.e.
Hindu = Gita<-Krishna<-Allah
Btw Hindu call God, Allah as in monotheism, Brahman.
Hope you get my point.

There is no other way to be a Muslim other than the following principle;
Muslim as adherent of Islam = Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah [Quran-MGA] and nothing else.

Muhammad and Gabriel are NOT your tools. They are tools [intermediaries] of God to deliver the Quran for Muslims to adhere to. The formulation is as follows;

Muslim as adherent of Islam = Quran<- [(Muhammad<-Gabriel) tools]<-Allah [Quran-MGA] and nothing else.
You will find many of say we "Do not know who is a Muslim." There are no criteria we can point to and say this person is a Muslim. It is strictly between the individual and Allaah(swt).

We only know who says they are a Muslim, not who is. We should never call anyone a Kafir, as they may be a Muslim and not even know it. A Muslim who calls a Muslim Kafir, even accidently, has removed themselves from Islam. We can not know who is a Muslim, because we do not know who is not a Muslim

Quote:
Be Careful who you call a Kafir

"As to those who reject Faith, It is the same to them Whether thou warn them Or do not warn them; They will not believe." The Holy Quran, 02:06 Al Baqarah

Abdullah Yusuf Ali's commentary: Kufr, Kafara, Kafir, and derivative forms of the word, imply a deliberate rejection of Faith as opposed to a mistaken idea of Allah or faith, which is not consistent with an ernest desire to see the truth. Where there is sch desire, the Grace and Mercy of Allah gives guidance. But that guidance is not efficacious when it is deliberately rejected, and the possibility of rejection follows from the grant of free will. The consequence of the rejection is that spiritual faculties become dead or impervious to better influence.

Be careful who you call Kafir because only Allah knows who is truly a rejector and who is merely a misguided person. It is not up to us to "sentence" a person to the Hellfire.

We must always maintain courtesy, diplomacy and a never-dying zeal to convey the message to others no matter how discouraging or useless it may seem - don't give up on a non-muslim because most people are good people who simply need a break from the anti-Islamic propaganda around them.

The Fastest Way to Leave Islam

It is always safest to assume that a non-muslim has been misguided, misinformed and fed lies and misconceptions about Islam and Muslims - don't jump to calling him a Kafir. Remove the name-calling from your articles and websites - wouldn't you rather be safe than sorry - name-calling, especially wrongly branding someone as 'evil', 'kafr' and 'manifestation of satan' - GHEEBOT - could entail dire consequences for us on Judgement Day.

Perhaps there is no faster way to leave Islam than by calling other Muslims "kafir" or "mushrik" without discrimination.

About calling other Muslims "kafir," we read the following hadith: It is reported on the authority of Ibn `Umar that the Prophet (may peace and blessings be upon him) said: Any person who calls his brother: O Unbeliever! (then the truth of this label) would return to one of them. If it is true, (then it is) as he asserted, (but if it is not true), then it returns to him (and thus the person who made the accusation is an Unbeliever). [Muslim]

Therefore, if you call other Muslims "kafir" or "mushrik" without discrimination, you could find that you have left Islam, according to the words of the Prophet (s.a.w.), in less than a second.
Be Careful who you call a Kafir
Quote:
As to the question of a person being in fact a believer or not, it is not the task of any human being to decide it. This matter is directly to do with God, and it is He Who shall decide it on the day of Judgment. As for people, if they have to decide anything it is only this: Which person, according to the distinctive signs of the followers of Islam, as laid down by God and His Messenger, is within the borders of Islam, and which person has gone outside them. For this purpose, the things which have been taught to us as the foundations of Islam are the following:
Maudoodi on Takfir (calling Muslims as kafirs)
Quote:
bn Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (May Allah bestow peace and blessings upon him) said, “If a man addresses his brother as, ‘O’ Disbeliever,’ it returns to one of them; either it is as he said or it returns to him.” (Agreed upon – in both Bukhari 10/427 and Muslim 60)

Do you really want to take the chance of calling someone a disbeliever and this curse returning to you? Do you really want to take that chance? Are you really that sure of yourself? The curse of disbelief returns to the one who said it; if that person he labelled as a disbeliever was not worthy of that name. There are so many people who have not studied Islamic belief but find it totally acceptable to call someone a disbeliever. How can you when you have not studied Islamic belief? How can you be certain what is in people’s hearts? Don’t we remember what happened to Usama ibn Zaid (may Allah be pleased with them) when he killed a man who testified to Islam but this individual after testifing kept coming back to fight the Muslims? The Prophet (may Allah bestow peace and blessings upon him) kept asking Usama if he looked into his heart? Usama was so upset that he almost wished that he had not accepted Islam. This is how severe this problem is.

Abu Dhar (may Allah be pleased with him) said that he heard the Messenger of God (may Allah bestow peace and blessings upon him) say, “Whoever addresses a man as a disbeliever or calls him the enemy of God, and he is not, then it returns to him.” (Agreed upon Bukhari 10/377 Muslim 61)
Sheikhy Notes: Calling someone a disbeliever/Kafir
Quote:
Takfir (declaring apostasy) is not an easy affair. Just like any ruling it has certain conditions that, if not present, will prevent the ruling, in this case disbelief, from occurring.

Here are some of those conditions:

Declaring apostasy cannot be based on probability, meaning if there is a chance that a person may not be a kafir. Imam Malik said, “If I have 99 reasons to believe a person is a kafir and one to believe he is not, I’ll prefer the latter.”
Takfir is made regarding things that are known by default, like God being one and the finality of prophethood. The Malikis listed 33 issues that fall under the heading, malum min al-din bi al-Dururrah.
Takfir cannot be based on following an opinion (ijtihad) of a scholar in fiqh (legal verdict). There is not a kafir in fiqh because fiqh implies knowledge of things beyond the average person’s scope. For that reason a person is not declared a kafir who makes tawassul (praying to Allah through an intermediary). Imam Ahmed said, “We do not declare such people as kuffar.”
Takfir cannot be based on a sincere attempt to interpret or understand a text. Allah subhanahu wa ta`la (Exalted is He) mentions the followers of Christ saying, “Can God send a table from the heavens?” This is a statement of kufur but they were excused because it was a sincere question and an effort to understand.
Takfir cannot be based on actions that are due to ignorance. In the Qur’an we find the followers of Musa alayhi assalam saying, “Make for us idols to worship like they (the people of Egypt) had.” Musa’s response was, “You are an ignorant people.” He did not say that you are a kuffar. This verse servers as the foundation for the axiom “Al-‘Uthru bi Jahl” (Ignorance is excused).
Takfir can only be made on an act of pure worship coupled with an intention that is clear kufur. Al-Dhahabi said, “If I saw a Muslim making sujud to a grave, I would not declare takfir until I talked to him.”
Takfir cannot be made upon an action that was done under the threat of harm. Allah (swt) says, “Except for the one who was forced (to say kufur) and his heart was full of faith.”
Takfir cannot be made upon an act that was an emotional burst. The Prophet ﷺ (peace be upon him) said that the man who lost his camel in the desert and later found it, said, “God! You are my servant and I am your Lord.” The Prophet ﷺ did not say this man was a kafir even though the statement is kufur. Ibn Hajar notes that this man was overcome with joy, so his statement was an abbreviation.
Just because someone’s group is not from Ahl-Sunna does not mean they are kafir. For that reason the companions prayed janazah (funeral prayer) for the khawarij. They did not collect the spoils of war from them, but gave it to the deceased’s family according to the Islamic rules on inheritance. Ibn Taymiyya says that this proves the companions considered them Muslims.
Making takfir of others without knowledge is a major sin.
There is no takfir for major sins (only in certain situations).
Takfir is to be made, in most cases, by a Qadi and not a lay person or even a mufti as noted by Khalil. The reason for this is because, in the classical age, this implied a loss of rights. Secondly, a lay person accusing another of kufur falls under qathf, a major sin.
Calling Someone a Kafir | Virtual Mosque


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Old 10-25-2015, 05:39 AM
 
352 posts, read 311,890 times
Reputation: 54
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.




https://www.rt.com/shows/documentary...slave-markets/ Victims Of ISIS




https://www.rt.com/politics/319343-p...ting-hits-new/ Putin's approval rating hits new historic high of almost 90%




https://www.rt.com/news/319499-russi...dge-euphrates/ Russian Air Force cuts off ISIS supply lines by bombing bridge over Euphrates





Wassalaam. devotee
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Old 10-25-2015, 05:45 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,393,176 times
Reputation: 7408
Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.




https://www.rt.com/shows/documentary...slave-markets/ Victims Of ISIS




https://www.rt.com/politics/319343-p...ting-hits-new/ Putin's approval rating hits new historic high of almost 90%




https://www.rt.com/news/319499-russi...dge-euphrates/ Russian Air Force cuts off ISIS supply lines by bombing bridge over Euphrates





Wassalaam. devotee

It seems Russia is doing a better job at defeating ISIS than we (Americans) have done.

shukrahn (Thank you) Russia
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Old 10-26-2015, 01:22 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,611,346 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You will find many of say we "Do not know who is a Muslim." There are no criteria we can point to and say this person is a Muslim. It is strictly between the individual and Allaah(swt).

We only know who says they are a Muslim, not who is. We should never call anyone a Kafir, as they may be a Muslim and not even know it. A Muslim who calls a Muslim Kafir, even accidently, has removed themselves from Islam. We can not know who is a Muslim, because we do not know who is not a Muslim
I don't find anything of use from the links you provided as they are not making reference to the Quran. The mentioned 2:06 has no significance to establishing who is a Muslim and who is not.

I have stated many times, the Quran defines a Muslim is a person who has entered into a covenant with Allah as per the terms and conditions of the Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah [Quran-MGA].
In Islam, What Is a Covenant With Allah?

The Quran-MGA is very clear on the criteria as to whom is a Muslim in principle follow by all relevant criteria and obligations.

Therefore any one who is familiar with the Quran-MGA can easily determined who is a Muslim and who is not. In addition, Allah stated in many verses the Quran had been made easy to understand and remember,
54: 17. And in truth We have made the Qur’an easy to remember;
In the Quran there are certain guidance and commands a Muslim is needed to act according to whether the person is a Muslim or non-Muslim.
For example not befriending [awliyaa as allies, associate, guardian, etc] non-Muslims and also not be intimate friends with non-Muslims. Muslims are also be ready to go to war and kill non-Muslims. There are many other actions expected of a Muslims to act in accordance whether the other person is a Muslim or a kafir.
So it would be ridiculous if God did not provide guidelines and criteria in the Quran for a Muslim to differentiate on Earth who is a Muslim or who is a kafir.

Thus a person who has entered into a covenant with Allah is a Muslim as evidenced by the first Sahadah and other compliances to the Quran-MGA by that Muslim. There are many other criteria that support as evidence to who is a Muslim, e.g.
6:19. Say (O Muhammad) : What thing is of most weight [strongest] in testimony? Say: Allah is witness between you and me. And this Qur'an hath been inspired in me, that I may warn therewith you and whomsoever it may reach. Do ye in truth bear witness that there are gods beside Allah? Say: I bear no such witness. Say: He is only One God. Lo! I am innocent of that which ye [infidels] associate (with Him).
It is strictly between the individual and Allaah(swt).
Ultimately on J-Day it is strictly between the individual and Allah. However Allah himself has provided criteria in the Quran-MGA as to how to identify 'who is a Muslim' and 'who is an infidel' so a Muslim can act in accordance to the commands of Allah where a differentiation is necessary.
It is irresponsible for a Muslim to identify a Muslim or Kafir without basis.
This why I suggest to be more sure, use the 6,236 verses in the Quran as a checklist as to who is a Muslim via personal interview or external observations.

I admit it is possible for a person to do externally whatever is necessary to be a Muslim but yet in his mind and intention he is deliberately not accepting to be a Muslim. Such a situation would be very rare as can happen to a spy or agent who may pretend to be a Muslim to penetrate ISIS' organization. If it happen it would only be say 2++ against 1.5 billion genuinely intentional Muslims. Such a point is irrelevant to the issue.

So your point;
You will find many of say we "Do not know who is a Muslim." There are no criteria we can point to and say this person is a Muslim. It is strictly between the individual and Allaah(swt).
is false and moot.

To identify a Kafir:
In this modern era, all those who swear to be Jews and Christians by their respective holy books [Quran accused the existing Toral and Bible as corrupted from the pure original] are obviously non-Muslims.
It is not difficult to identify an idolater who prays to idols.
Anyone who declare himself to be an atheist or non-theist is a kafir.
In general any one who do not regard the Quran-MGA as their holy book is an infidel or kafir.
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Old 10-26-2015, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,393,176 times
Reputation: 7408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I don't find anything of use from the links you provided as they are not making reference to the Quran. The mentioned 2:06 has no significance to establishing who is a Muslim and who is not.

I have stated many times, the Quran defines a Muslim is a person who has entered into a covenant with Allah as per the terms and conditions of the Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah [Quran-MGA].
In Islam, What Is a Covenant With Allah?

The Quran-MGA is very clear on the criteria as to whom is a Muslim in principle follow by all relevant criteria and obligations.

Therefore any one who is familiar with the Quran-MGA can easily determined who is a Muslim and who is not. In addition, Allah stated in many verses the Quran had been made easy to understand and remember,
54: 17. And in truth We have made the Qur’an easy to remember;
In the Quran there are certain guidance and commands a Muslim is needed to act according to whether the person is a Muslim or non-Muslim.
For example not befriending [awliyaa as allies, associate, guardian, etc] non-Muslims and also not be intimate friends with non-Muslims. Muslims are also be ready to go to war and kill non-Muslims. There are many other actions expected of a Muslims to act in accordance whether the other person is a Muslim or a kafir.
So it would be ridiculous if God did not provide guidelines and criteria in the Quran for a Muslim to differentiate on Earth who is a Muslim or who is a kafir.

Thus a person who has entered into a covenant with Allah is a Muslim as evidenced by the first Sahadah and other compliances to the Quran-MGA by that Muslim. There are many other criteria that support as evidence to who is a Muslim, e.g.
6:19. Say (O Muhammad) : What thing is of most weight [strongest] in testimony? Say: Allah is witness between you and me. And this Qur'an hath been inspired in me, that I may warn therewith you and whomsoever it may reach. Do ye in truth bear witness that there are gods beside Allah? Say: I bear no such witness. Say: He is only One God. Lo! I am innocent of that which ye [infidels] associate (with Him).
It is strictly between the individual and Allaah(swt).
Ultimately on J-Day it is strictly between the individual and Allah. However Allah himself has provided criteria in the Quran-MGA as to how to identify 'who is a Muslim' and 'who is an infidel' so a Muslim can act in accordance to the commands of Allah where a differentiation is necessary.
It is irresponsible for a Muslim to identify a Muslim or Kafir without basis.
This why I suggest to be more sure, use the 6,236 verses in the Quran as a checklist as to who is a Muslim via personal interview or external observations.

I admit it is possible for a person to do externally whatever is necessary to be a Muslim but yet in his mind and intention he is deliberately not accepting to be a Muslim. Such a situation would be very rare as can happen to a spy or agent who may pretend to be a Muslim to penetrate ISIS' organization. If it happen it would only be say 2++ against 1.5 billion genuinely intentional Muslims. Such a point is irrelevant to the issue.

So your point;
You will find many of say we "Do not know who is a Muslim." There are no criteria we can point to and say this person is a Muslim. It is strictly between the individual and Allaah(swt).
is false and moot.

To identify a Kafir:
In this modern era, all those who swear to be Jews and Christians by their respective holy books [Quran accused the existing Toral and Bible as corrupted from the pure original] are obviously non-Muslims.
It is not difficult to identify an idolater who prays to idols.
Anyone who declare himself to be an atheist or non-theist is a kafir.
In general any one who do not regard the Quran-MGA as their holy book is an infidel or kafir.
Your definition of a Muslim is based upon a requirement to obey the Qur'an as a book of commandments.

That is not the case. The obligation we have in our covenant is to sincerely believe there is but one God(swt) and to not associate any partners or progeny to him.
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Old 10-26-2015, 09:13 AM
 
352 posts, read 311,890 times
Reputation: 54
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.


It would appear that some of the women of IS, find life splendid, as if expecting a coming utopia. Others have have found a school of hard knocks.


Female defector who recruited European brides for ISIS warns naive girls | Daily Mail Online



What draws western women to Islamic State’s violent jihad? Nabeelah Jaffer spent months talking to British and American ‘sisters’, before and after they travelled to Syria. How were they convinced by promises of a ‘perfect’ society and life as a martyr’s widow?

The secret world of Isis brides: 'U dnt hav 2 pay 4 ANYTHING if u r wife of a martyr' | World news | The Guardian Islamic State-The secret world of Isis brides: 'U dnt hav 2 pay 4 ANYTHING if u r wife of a martyr'

Almost all the women I came across looked and sounded not unlike myself at 16. They were conservative Muslim girls, whether they were recent converts or the daughters of Muslims, who took their faith seriously. Although their interpretation of Islam rarely agreed with mine, the women I spoke to were driven in part by religious ideals. But few of these women were willing to engage thoughtfully with a variety of Islamic religious texts, traditions and interpretations. They hated disorder and ambiguity; the clear-cut doctrines issued by jihadist ideologues appealed to their political sensibilities. Opposing the west was their measure of religious authenticity.





Wassalaam. devotee
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Old 10-26-2015, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,611,346 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Your definition of a Muslim is based upon a requirement to obey the Qur'an as a book of commandments.

That is not the case. The obligation we have in our covenant is to sincerely believe there is but one God(swt) and to not associate any partners or progeny to him.
Note I have never implied the Quran-MGA is wholly a book of commandments. It is a book that contains primary and secondary obligations of a covenant Muslim made with Allah, together with other materials as explanatory notes and guides.

I just posted this reply in another post which is relevant to the above, i.e.

A Muslim is a person who has made a covenant/agreement with Allah in accordance to the terms and conditions of the Quran-MGA by satisfying the minimum requirement, e.g. declaring the first Sahadah to oneself or with witnesses or anything similar in essence to it.

Once a person is a Muslim by agreement/covenant with Allah, the FULL terms and conditions of the Quran-MGA are binding on that Muslim without exception.

However a Muslim [other than the primary and basic requirements of the covenant] do NOT need apply the secondary elements within the Quran-MGA if the circumstances do not apply to them. For example not all Muslims marry more than one wife, but if one were to marry more than one, then the limit is four.

There are also obligatory commands that must be complied whenever the relevant circumstances arise. For example a Muslim must fight and kill [where necessary] non-Muslims if Islam is threatened or wronged. There are many verses which condemned Muslims who are coward when justified fights [battle, wars] are necessary. The problem is the concept of 'wronged' is very vague and anything negative against Islam and Muslims are interpreted as 'wronged' by SOME [20% =300 million] sensitive Muslims.

If a Muslim do not strive to read the Quran, then they have to put their faith in the Islamic Scholars to guide them if there are to be successful Muslims and this is where the exploitation of the vulnerable arise.
The ultimate is between a Muslim and Allah, thus imo putting faith/trust in experts is like associating partners to Allah as it is possible for these experts to abuse that trust and be led astray.
So it would be better for a Muslims to understand the Quran-MGA personally unless they do not have the capacity to do so.

There is no explicit strict obligation or command within the covenant that a Muslim must read the Quran-MGA. However there are inferences where the Quran must be read or at least heard. The Quran stated in many verses that the Quran-MGA was made easy to be read/heard and remembered. So there is really no excuses for lazy Muslims.
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