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Old 10-19-2015, 11:58 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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The Arabic word 'Islam' can be used a verb and a noun.
Here are some notes on the point.

....................................

Islam is usually translated as "submission." Arabic words derive from three-letter roots, and the term "Islam" comes from the root s-l-m, which means to be safe. Islam is a verbal noun, derived from the fourth form of the 10 forms used in Arabic linguistics. Other Islamic words stemming from this root include "salam" and "Muslim." Salam means peace and is used in the traditional Islamic greeting; a Muslim is an adherent of Islam.

Concept of Arabic Verbal Roots

Arabic is a Semitic language, and it derives all its indigenous words from three-letter verbal roots. Words that stem from the verbal root often carry some connotation from the original verb. In Arabic linguistics, there are 10 verb forms for each verbal root, and each carries certain particles, adjectives, verbal nouns and other words that stem from it. An Arabic verb, in its perfect form, always starts as masculine and in the past tense. For example, r-k-b -- pronounced rakiba -- means "he rode."

The Root S-L-M

In its perfect form, the root s-l-m -- the verbal root of Islam -- is a verb that means to be safe and secure. According to The Hans Wehr Dictionary of Modern Arabic, the perfect form of this verb can also mean to be unharmed, unimpaired, intact, safe, secure, unobjectionable, blameless, faultless, certain, established, clearly proven or free. It can also mean to escape danger. The simplest noun derived from this root -- salam -- simply means peace.
From S-L-M to Islam

The term Islam stems from the fourth form of the verb, which literally transliterated would be i-s-l-m, and it means "to surrender." The verbal noun of this verb form always inserts an "a" between the third and fourth letters, which results in the word "Islam," or "submission."
The proper noun Islam, the definite article, is preceded by the article "al," which is the Arabic version of "the." Therefore, the religion of Islam, in Arabic, is known as Al-Islam.

Etymology of Islam | People - Opposing Views

The use of 'Islam' = 'submission' is not an issue but here are the verses where it is used as a noun. [mine]
5:3 ....
This day have I [Allah] Perfected your religion [deenakum] for you [Muslims] and completed My favour unto you [Muslims], and have chosen for you [Muslims] as religion [deenan] AL-ISLAM.
....

3:5 Indeed, the religion near Allah (is) Islam.
Inna alddeena AAinda Allahi al-islamu

Agree?
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Old 10-20-2015, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The Arabic word 'Islam' can be used a verb and a noun.
Here are some notes on the point.

....................................

Islam is usually translated as "submission." Arabic words derive from three-letter roots, and the term "Islam" comes from the root s-l-m, which means to be safe. Islam is a verbal noun, derived from the fourth form of the 10 forms used in Arabic linguistics. Other Islamic words stemming from this root include "salam" and "Muslim." Salam means peace and is used in the traditional Islamic greeting; a Muslim is an adherent of Islam.

Concept of Arabic Verbal Roots

Arabic is a Semitic language, and it derives all its indigenous words from three-letter verbal roots. Words that stem from the verbal root often carry some connotation from the original verb. In Arabic linguistics, there are 10 verb forms for each verbal root, and each carries certain particles, adjectives, verbal nouns and other words that stem from it. An Arabic verb, in its perfect form, always starts as masculine and in the past tense. For example, r-k-b -- pronounced rakiba -- means "he rode."

The Root S-L-M

In its perfect form, the root s-l-m -- the verbal root of Islam -- is a verb that means to be safe and secure. According to The Hans Wehr Dictionary of Modern Arabic, the perfect form of this verb can also mean to be unharmed, unimpaired, intact, safe, secure, unobjectionable, blameless, faultless, certain, established, clearly proven or free. It can also mean to escape danger. The simplest noun derived from this root -- salam -- simply means peace.
From S-L-M to Islam

The term Islam stems from the fourth form of the verb, which literally transliterated would be i-s-l-m, and it means "to surrender." The verbal noun of this verb form always inserts an "a" between the third and fourth letters, which results in the word "Islam," or "submission."
The proper noun Islam, the definite article, is preceded by the article "al," which is the Arabic version of "the." Therefore, the religion of Islam, in Arabic, is known as Al-Islam.

Etymology of Islam | People - Opposing Views

The use of 'Islam' = 'submission' is not an issue but here are the verses where it is used as a noun. [mine]
5:3 ....
This day have I [Allah] Perfected your religion [deenakum] for you [Muslims] and completed My favour unto you [Muslims], and have chosen for you [Muslims] as religion [deenan] AL-ISLAM.
....

3:5 Indeed, the religion near Allah (is) Islam.
Inna alddeena AAinda Allahi al-islamu

Agree?
Al-Islam or variations of are found in only 6 places in the Qur'an, in 4 of them it is clearly a verb.

While al-Islam (The Surrender) can be a Noun. It is quite debatable as to if in 5:3 and 3:5.
Iit is debatable if it is intended as a proper noun, the name of a religion, or if it is a characteristic of the religion.

It could also be used as a characteristic of any of the Madhabs. Such as Hanafi is al-Islam as it is a method of surrender. It would even be appropriate for Christians to claim Christianity is al-Islam, at least from a Christian perspective as many of them believe they are surrendering to God. Also us Muslims believe that The religion as taught by Jesus(a.s.) did perform al-Islam in accordance with the teachings of the past Prophets.
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Old 10-20-2015, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Al-Islam or variations of are found in only 6 places in the Qur'an, in 4 of them it is clearly a verb.

While al-Islam (The Surrender) can be a Noun. It is quite debatable as to if in 5:3 and 3:5.
Iit is debatable if it is intended as a proper noun, the name of a religion, or if it is a characteristic of the religion.

It could also be used as a characteristic of any of the Madhabs. Such as Hanafi is al-Islam as it is a method of surrender. It would even be appropriate for Christians to claim Christianity is al-Islam, at least from a Christian perspective as many of them believe they are surrendering to God. Also us Muslims believe that The religion as taught by Jesus(a.s.) did perform al-Islam in accordance with the teachings of the past Prophets.
Your above arguments is bad logic and full of rhetoric via conflations of different senses.

First:
In 5:3 and 3:5 al-Islam is definitely representing the noun - Deen.
According to the Quran, the 'Deen' is the pervasive set of beliefs, doctrines, practices and whatever that is necessary for a Muslim to believe and practice.
Within the 'Deen' [aka al-Islam as noun] there is the practice of submission i.e. islam the verb.
The relation is the verb is contained within the noun
Thus islam (verb) is a subset of al-Islam (noun).
Thus the term 'islam' as used in the Quran is both a verb and a noun re OP.
Do you agree with this?

Second:
The next question is,
Is al-Islam [noun] as 'Deen' [3:5, 5:3] also a religion [as in universal language]?
..(Note the concept of 'religion' is not solely a 'English' concept, it is a universal concept.)
..The word 'religion' in any language is often a VERY loose term, so we have to be more precise when using this term 'religion' [in whatever language].
..For the term 'religion' that can be shared by all, it must have common elements, I had suggested Smart's 7 Dimensions to represent a generic religion and let's call this Religion-7D which can be used to represent any major religion in the world.
Answer:
Al-Islam [noun] as 'Deen' [3:5, 5:3] in its totality and by itself as per Quran-Muhammad-Gabriel-Allah is NOT a religion as religion-7D.
However religion-7D is contain within Al-Islam [noun] as 'Deen' [3:5, 5:3].
This can be easily proven by extracting the 7D elements from the Quran-Muhammad-Gabriel-Allah
Thus Al-Islam [noun] as 'Deen' [3:5, 5:3] is Religion-7D + Islamic Elements.

In a discussion like this we cannot state al-Islam is a religion, period!
To be precise and to avoid confusion we need to qualify and state,
Al-Islam is Religion-7D plus other Islamic Elements from the Quran-Muhammad-Gabriel-Allah.


Third:
The Madhabs are not religions per se.
The Madhabs merely contain explanatory notes and guides for lay Muslims. They do not have any divine authority like the Quran-Muhammad-Gabriel-Allah.

Fourth:
I can agree islam as verb can represent the act of submitting.
As mention above, islam (verb) is a subset of al-Islam (noun).
Al-Islam [noun] as 'Deen' [3:5, 5:3] in its totality is represented by Quran-Muhammad-Gabriel-Allah
It is a deception to assert Christianity is also Al-Islam just because it has the 'act of submitting'. This a very bad logic of generalization. Example, both Italian Dining and French Dining involve eating, it does not mean they are the same.

1. Al-Islam = Quran-Muhammad-Gabriel-Allah
2. Christianity = NT-Jesus-God
Christianity CANNOT be called Al-Islam because they have different elements and besides it is an insult to Christians in general to call their religion Al-Islam.
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Old 10-20-2015, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Another point:

If 'Islam' is submission, then it is a noun.
Submission | Define Submission at Dictionary.com

noun
1. an act or instance of submitting.
2. the condition of having submitted.
3. submissive conduct or attitude.

Verb
The act of submitting is the verb.
Submit | Define Submit at Dictionary.com


It is more appropriate to say one is in a state of submission rather than submitting.

I believe a Muslim only submit [verb] once in the process of the Sahada.
Thereafter a Muslim is always in a state of submission [noun].

Thus is most cases the term 'Islam' is used as a noun.
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Old 10-21-2015, 04:44 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Another point:

If 'Islam' is submission, then it is a noun.
Submission | Define Submission at Dictionary.com

noun
1. an act or instance of submitting.
2. the condition of having submitted.
3. submissive conduct or attitude.

Verb
The act of submitting is the verb.
Submit | Define Submit at Dictionary.com


It is more appropriate to say one is in a state of submission rather than submitting.

I believe a Muslim only submit [verb] once in the process of the Sahada.
Thereafter a Muslim is always in a state of submission [noun].

Thus is most cases the term 'Islam' is used as a noun.
While Saying the Shahadah is our individual act of acknowledging to Allaah(swt) that we chose to serve him, it is not our only time we are submitting. We submit every time we begin a task with the words "Bismillah ir Rahman ir Rahim"

The actual form of the Shahadah is not important, we can express the concept in our own words. Once we discover we are Muslim and begin to learn more and begin performing the 5 obligatory Salah we will be repeating the Shahadah several times in each Salat daily.

Every thing we do, can be submitting.

Actually in the Shahadah we are not submitting, it is our acknowledging we believe there is only one God(swt) and that Muhammad(saws) is his messenger. Submitting comes and increases the more we learn about Allaah(swt) and strive to serve him.
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Old 10-21-2015, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Woodrow, I had posted this earlier.

First:
In 5:3 and 3:5 al-Islam is definitely representing the noun - Deen.
According to the Quran, the 'Deen' is the pervasive set of beliefs, doctrines, practices and whatever that is necessary for a Muslim to believe and practice.
Within the 'Deen' [aka al-Islam as noun] there is the practice of submission i.e. islam the verb.
The relation is the verb is contained within the noun
Thus islam (verb) is a subset of al-Islam (noun).
Thus the term 'islam' as used in the Quran is both a verb and a noun re OP.
Do you agree with this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI
While Saying the Shahadah is our individual act of acknowledging to Allaah(swt)
that we chose to serve him, it is not our only time we are submitting. We submit
every time we begin a task with the words "Bismillah ir Rahman ir Rahim"
A person born into Muslims don't do the Sahadah. The covenant is implied in a way.
I was using this to exemplify the principle of 'submission' in terms of a noun and a verb.

Let start with a non-Muslim.
A non-Muslim is not submitting to Allah and it is not in a state of submission to Allah.
For a non-Muslim to be a Muslim s/he has to enter into a covenant [agreement/contract] with Allah.
The Sahadah [not in the Quran] is used in general to signify the explicit 'signing' of the covenant between the person and Allah. The terms of the covenant include the imperative to submit to Allah.
Therefore the starting point of submitting to Allah is upon the completion of the Sahadah.
Like any agreement, it will not take effect upon the consummation of the agreement [explicit or implicit].

Once a person has 'signed' the covenant via the Sahadah, then the person is submitting [verb] to Allah and is in the state of Submission [noun] to Allah.
Thus can you see how the verb and noun comes into play.
If Islam = Submission [as you insist, I don't], then Islam is both a verb and a noun.

In fact the noun of Submission is more critical than the verb.
Once a Muslim agreed to 'sign' the covenant, then s/he is in a permanent state of submission [noun].

If you refer Islam as submitting [verb], then when one is not submitting at any time, then the person is not a Muslim within that period of time, hours or seconds. Let say a Muslim [as a person] just don't want to submit [verb] to Allah at a certain period of time for various good reasons, then he is not a Muslim for that period of time. Then if he want to be a Muslim again he will have to sign the covenant again.

Therefore my argument above is Islam as a noun [complete] is more critical than Islam as a verb[which has holes].

Your insistence that Islam is a verb is your very own thinking [you are the only one I know] and I believe Allah will disagree with you.
Can you counter my argument, Islam is more critical as a state [thing -noun] than as an action [verb]?
I need a response to this so we don't have to go over the same argument umpteen times.
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Old 10-22-2015, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Woodrow, I had posted this earlier.

First:
In 5:3 and 3:5 al-Islam is definitely representing the noun - Deen.
According to the Quran, the 'Deen' is the pervasive set of beliefs, doctrines, practices and whatever that is necessary for a Muslim to believe and practice.
Within the 'Deen' [aka al-Islam as noun] there is the practice of submission i.e. islam the verb.
The relation is the verb is contained within the noun
Thus islam (verb) is a subset of al-Islam (noun).
Thus the term 'islam' as used in the Quran is both a verb and a noun re OP.
Do you agree with this?

A person born into Muslims don't do the Sahadah. The covenant is implied in a way.
I was using this to exemplify the principle of 'submission' in terms of a noun and a verb.

Let start with a non-Muslim.
A non-Muslim is not submitting to Allah and it is not in a state of submission to Allah.
For a non-Muslim to be a Muslim s/he has to enter into a covenant [agreement/contract] with Allah.
The Sahadah [not in the Quran] is used in general to signify the explicit 'signing' of the covenant between the person and Allah. The terms of the covenant include the imperative to submit to Allah.
Therefore the starting point of submitting to Allah is upon the completion of the Sahadah.
Like any agreement, it will not take effect upon the consummation of the agreement [explicit or implicit].

Once a person has 'signed' the covenant via the Sahadah, then the person is submitting [verb] to Allah and is in the state of Submission [noun] to Allah.
Thus can you see how the verb and noun comes into play.
If Islam = Submission [as you insist, I don't], then Islam is both a verb and a noun.

In fact the noun of Submission is more critical than the verb.
Once a Muslim agreed to 'sign' the covenant, then s/he is in a permanent state of submission [noun].

If you refer Islam as submitting [verb], then when one is not submitting at any time, then the person is not a Muslim within that period of time, hours or seconds. Let say a Muslim [as a person] just don't want to submit [verb] to Allah at a certain period of time for various good reasons, then he is not a Muslim for that period of time. Then if he want to be a Muslim again he will have to sign the covenant again.

Therefore my argument above is Islam as a noun [complete] is more critical than Islam as a verb[which has holes].

Your insistence that Islam is a verb is your very own thinking [you are the only one I know] and I believe Allah will disagree with you.
Can you counter my argument, Islam is more critical as a state [thing -noun] than as an action [verb]?
I need a response to this so we don't have to go over the same argument umpteen times.
Every Muslim does the Shahadah. Several times a day in each of the 5 daily prayers. There is no requirement it be done as a ceremony in a Mosque. Normally it is not done in the Mosque. A person simply says the Shahadah whever and when ever they have arrived at the conclusion they are Muslim

As for saying it in front of witnesses, that will be done each and every time they say any of the obligatory prayers in the company of others.

The words used for the "Kalimah" (Words of the Shahadah) need not be exactly the same as the Kalimah, only the belif and sincerity have to be there.

Quote:
While many converts like to profess their new faith in a mosque and/or in the presence of other Muslims, witnesses are not required. You can become Muslim by yourself at home.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...1141539AABqVF4


Quote:
Can you counter my argument, Islam is more critical as a state [thing -noun] than as an action [verb]?
One does not join Islam. It is not an organization, a specific group or even any entitycalled "Islam" it is simply a word that can be loosely used to label all people that claim to perform Islam.

It is very similar as saying all people who run are runners. It is an action that is defining the commonality.

One can not describe Islam in terms of joining something. there is no physical entity to put the name Islam on. there is no physical thing you can point a finger at and say "This is Islam" Muslims do not join something called Islam, there is no joining. Most of us do not even support a Mosque. there are no centrallly trained clergy.

The only way to describe Islam as a name, is it is a generic term used to label all people that claim to perform Islam.

It might be possible to point at a Mosque, community, or even Nation and use the adjective of Islamic. But none of which represents Islam. There is nothing central one can point to and say is Islam.

There is nothing one can point to and say it is Islam.
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Old 10-22-2015, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Every Muslim does the Shahadah. Several times a day in each of the 5 daily prayers. There is no requirement it be done as a ceremony in a Mosque. Normally it is not done in the Mosque. A person simply says the Shahadah whever and when ever they have arrived at the conclusion they are Muslim

As for saying it in front of witnesses, that will be done each and every time they say any of the obligatory prayers in the company of others.

The words used for the "Kalimah" (Words of the Shahadah) need not be exactly the same as the Kalimah, only the belif and sincerity have to be there.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...1141539AABqVF4
There seem to be a misunderstanding of the usage of the term 'Shahadah' here.
What I meant is the 'Shahadah' that used the first time when a convert declares himself to be a Muslim.
At the point a convert or one who aspire to be a Muslim and declare the Shahadah the first time with that intention to be a Muslim, that is when s/he is submitting [verb].
Therefrom the Muslim is in the state of submission all the time till s/he apostate.
A Muslim can remind himself he is submitting [verb] but the main point is the Muslims has 'signed' a covenant with Allah to be in a psychological state of submission [noun] i.e. being a 'slave'.
In this case the noun element is more critical than the verb element in relation to 'submission.'


Quote:
One does not join Islam. It is not an organization, a specific group or even any
entity called "Islam" it is simply a word that can be loosely used to label all
people that claim to perform Islam.
I hope you have not mistaken my use of 'state' as a 'political state.'

By 'state of submission' I meant a psychological state [surely you'd understand this?], as in state of drunkenness, state of coma, depressive state, elated state, state of subservience and the likes.

If Islam is 'submission' [this is a noun rather than the verb submit], then a Muslim has entered into a psychological state of submission to Allah. So it is not joining any organization or group called Islam.

However this 'state of submission' as Islam must be in compliance with the terms, conditions, doctrines, sets of practices, guidance as in the Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah.

There is no other way to reach 'Islam' other than being qualified to the Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah.

This also applies to the so-called Islam-of-Old re Abraham which must be qualified to the Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah [Quran-MGA] because such a claim is only made in the Quran-MGA and no where else.



Quote:
It is very similar as saying all people who run are runners. It is an action that is defining the commonality.

One can not describe Islam in terms of joining something. there is no physical entity to put the name Islam on. there is no physical thing you can point a finger at and say "This is Islam" Muslims do not join something called Islam, there is no joining. Most of us do not even support a Mosque. there are no centrallly trained clergy.

The only way to describe Islam as a name, is it is a generic term used to label all people that claim to perform Islam.

It might be possible to point at a Mosque, community, or even Nation and use the adjective of Islamic. But none of which represents Islam. There is nothing central one can point to and say is Islam.

There is nothing one can point to and say it is Islam.
Note my point above, on how Islam is viewed from the psychological perspective towards the Quran-MGA with a psychological state of submission.

Btw, I don't view the psychological state of submission [noun] as the most critical. The psychological state of submission is merely a sub-element of the Quran-MGA. What is most critical is the Quran-MGA with its terms, conditions, doctrines, sets of practices, guidance, commands and whatever is within the 6,236 verses of the Quran-MGA.
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:15 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
There seem to be a misunderstanding of the usage of the term 'Shahadah' here.
What I meant is the 'Shahadah' that used the first time when a convert declares himself to be a Muslim.
At the point a convert or one who aspire to be a Muslim and declare the Shahadah the first time with that intention to be a Muslim, that is when s/he is submitting [verb].
Therefrom the Muslim is in the state of submission all the time till s/he apostate.
A Muslim can remind himself he is submitting [verb] but the main point is the Muslims has 'signed' a covenant with Allah to be in a psychological state of submission [noun] i.e. being a 'slave'.
In this case the noun element is more critical than the verb element in relation to 'submission.'


I hope you have not mistaken my use of 'state' as a 'political state.'

By 'state of submission' I meant a psychological state [surely you'd understand this?], as in state of drunkenness, state of coma, depressive state, elated state, state of subservience and the likes.

If Islam is 'submission' [this is a noun rather than the verb submit], then a Muslim has entered into a psychological state of submission to Allah. So it is not joining any organization or group called Islam.

However this 'state of submission' as Islam must be in compliance with the terms, conditions, doctrines, sets of practices, guidance as in the Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah.

There is no other way to reach 'Islam' other than being qualified to the Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah.

This also applies to the so-called Islam-of-Old re Abraham which must be qualified to the Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah [Quran-MGA] because such a claim is only made in the Quran-MGA and no where else.



Note my point above, on how Islam is viewed from the psychological perspective towards the Quran-MGA with a psychological state of submission.

Btw, I don't view the psychological state of submission [noun] as the most critical. The psychological state of submission is merely a sub-element of the Quran-MGA. What is most critical is the Quran-MGA with its terms, conditions, doctrines, sets of practices, guidance, commands and whatever is within the 6,236 verses of the Quran-MGA.
I think I understand what you mean and you have a very justified view based upon logic. But it is not inline with what every Muslim I know professes to believe.

Muslims do not believe anyone converts to Islam. We believe all people are born Muslim and remaing Muslim unless after reaching the age of accountability. At that point they have to make a decision as to if they will remain Muslim or make another choice.

We do not believe anyone converts to Islam. They come to the realization the have always been Muslim and return (revert) to what they always were.Which is one reason why no ceremony or standardized ritual is required. the very first step in reverting to Islam is to sincerly and with knowledge and free will believe there is only one God(swt) who has no equals, no associates/partners, progeny nor was he created or born. Along with the belief only he is to be worshiped.

If the individual has no possible way of learning about the Qur'an or Muhammad(swt) that person has probably reverted to Islam to the best of his ability and knowledge.. In today's world of easy information sharing that is no longe likely to happen. But it past times it was more the norm than the exception.

There is no minimal required, except for what the individual is capable of knowing.. For all purposes a person who sincerely intends to submit fully to Allaah(swt) has already done so. (That is not meant to imply that they do not have to do something. It just means that if reasons beyond their control stop them, they will still receive the same rewards as if they had completed their intent.) Such as if a person intends to make Hajj and gets killed while preparing for Hajj they will be considered as having made Hajj.

A very large factor in Islam is intent.

Quote:
A Muslim believes in the great importance of intention and its importance for the reminder of his deeds, both of this world and the Hereafter. This is so because all deeds are based on intention. Due to it, the deed is strengthened or weakened. Depending on the intention, the deed is either valid or void.

The belief of the Muslim, concerning the necessity of intention for every deed and the obligation to make the intention proper, is based first of all on Allah’s words:

https://islamgreatreligion.wordpress...-on-intention/
Another factor that needs to be taken in consideration is that not all the Surat in the Qur'an have equal value.

It Should also be noted that some Surat in the Qur'an are of greater importance than the others.

For example one of the shortest Surat "al-Ikjlas is considered to be 1/3 of the Qur'an.

See HERE



Here is a translation of Surah 112- al-Ikhlas. considered to be 1/3 of the Qur'an

112. Surah Al-Ikhlaas or At-Tauhid (The Purity)

In the Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, Most Merciful

1. Say (O Muhammad ()): "He is Allah, (the) One.

2. "Allah-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).

3. "He begets not, nor was He begotten;

4. "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him."



The most important Surah is Surah al-Fatihah


Quote:
Surah Al-Fatihah – The ‘Greatest Surah’ in the Quran



According to the prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam), Surah Al-Fatihah is considered as “the greatest Surah” of the Quran. The following provides information about this great Surah along with its many benefits and virtues including its use in healing.

Surah Al-Fatihah – The &lsquo;Greatest Surah&rsquo; in the Quran | IqraSense.com
If a persons understands Surat (plural of Surah) 1 &112 they understand and abide by 99% of the Qur'an.

The remainder of the Qur'an essentially explains how and why are the Qur'an. The rest of the Qur'an is more of a History of how and why the Qur'an exists. It is only 1% or less in terms of value of what a Muslim is obligated to do.

I see a possibility the word Islam could be used as a proper Noun in referenct all people who follown Surat 1 & 112

A person who abides by them 2 Surat has in terms of value: completed 99% submission to Allaah(swt)
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Old 10-23-2015, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I think I understand what you mean and you have a very justified view based upon logic. But it is not inline with what every Muslim I know professes to believe.
My view is objective and logical but that is a basic principle all normal human being should abide with. Not to do so would be 'irrational' in that respect.
The Quran-MGA is Allah's words and it is imperative a Muslim must comply with Allah's Absolute words as much as possible to the best of the Muslim's ability. More so, a Muslim should not go against what is in the Quran-MGA. This principle is indisputable and imperative.

The Muslims you know and are not in line with the basic principle I proposed [re compliance with the Quran-MGA] are not the best of Muslims. The Quran [in many verses] ranked Muslims in terms of grading/degrees and accord rewards according to what they 'sowed'. If they do not make an attempt to adopt the basic principle, there is a danger they may not reach the passing mark to go the Paradise proper but rather tarry a million years in the hereafter with no certainty of reaching Paradise.

Note Allah asserted 'Submit' is inferior to Believe.
'Believe' Stronger than 'Submit'?
The more higher grade and greater certainty of going to Paradise are the 'Men of Understanding' therefore a truer Muslims must get as close as possible to the status as what is deemed to be 'Men of Understanding.'
The 'Men of Understanding' are the ones who believe and comply with as much as possible with the Quran-MGA.

Quote:
Muslims do not believe anyone converts to Islam. We believe all people are born Muslim and remaing Muslim unless after reaching the age of accountability. At that point they have to make a decision as to if they will remain Muslim or make another choice.

We do not believe anyone converts to Islam. They come to the realization the have always been Muslim and return (revert) to what they always were. Which is one reason why no ceremony or standardized ritual is required. the very first step in reverting to Islam is to sincerly and with knowledge and free will believe there is only one God(swt) who has no equals, no associates/partners, progeny nor was he created or born. Along with the belief only he is to be worshiped.

If the individual has no possible way of learning about the Qur'an or Muhammad(swt) that person has probably reverted to Islam to the best of his ability and knowledge.. In today's world of easy information sharing that is no longe likely to happen. But it past times it was more the norm than the exception.
For Islam to believe that All people are born Muslim is a terrible insult and showing no respect to non-Muslims as human beings. This is a negative point to Islam as a religion.

Even if Muslims claim All are born Muslims, what is the basis of their claim?
The basis is none other than what is claimed in the Quran-MGA. No other religions nor humans will agree to All are born Muslims.

That All are born Muslims as claimed in the Quran-MGA is frivolous.
The Quran in many verses differentiate mankind and man-in-general from believers [Muslims].
It is obvious from the Quran, there is aggressive proselytizing on the part of Muhammad to convert the Quraish, idolaters, Jews, Christians and others to his faith, i.e. Islam as per Quran-MGA.

Therefore per Quran-MGA non-Muslims are required to be converted to be Muslims from their previous status as idolaters, Jews, Christians, atheists and as non-Muslims. [infidels, kafir, kuffar, kafara].


Quote:
There is no minimal required, except for what the individual is capable of
knowing.. For all purposes a person who sincerely intends to submit fully to
Allaah(swt) has already done so. (That is not meant to imply that they do not
have to do something.

A very large factor in Islam is intent.

It just means that if reasons beyond their control stop
them, they will still receive the same rewards as if they had
completed their intent.) Such as if a person intends to make Hajj and gets
killed while preparing for Hajj they will be considered as having made Hajj.
The minimal requirement is a Muslim must enter into a covenant with Allah.
This is stated in many verses in the Quran.

I agree intent is critical and counts, e.g. is a Muslim with all intent and purposes kill non-Muslims when wronged within the best they understood the Quran, Allah will reward them accordingly.
But there are no verses in the Quran which state all Muslims will get the same reward.
The general principle in the Quran is the performance of Muslims are graded and rewards are accorded to how much they comply with the Quran-MGA and no where else.
A quick one [there are many other similar verses];
3:163. There are degrees (of grace and reprobation) with Allah, and Allah is Seer of what ye do.
Quote:
Another factor that needs to be taken in consideration is that not all the Surat in the Qur'an have equal value.

It Should also be noted that some Surat in the Qur'an are of greater importance than the others.

For example one of the shortest Surat "al-Ikjlas is considered to be 1/3 of the Qur'an.

See HERE


The most important Surah is Surah al-Fatihah


If a persons understands Surat (plural of Surah) 1 &112 they understand and abide by 99% of the Qur'an.

The remainder of the Qur'an essentially explains how and why are the Qur'an. The rest of the Qur'an is more of a History of how and why the Qur'an exists. It is only 1% or less in terms of value of what a Muslim is obligated to do.

I see a possibility the word Islam could be used as a proper Noun in referenct all people who follown Surat 1 & 112

A person who abides by them 2 Surat has in terms of value: completed 99% submission to Allaah(swt)
The criticalness of the Quran is not by chapters but rather by individual verses or concepts/principles [represented by set of verses].

It is ridiculous and ineffective to assert Chapter 1 & 112 represent 99% of submission.
Chapter 112 merely assert the principle of Monotheism and Allah is greatest of all. This same principle is claimed by Judaism, Christianity [non-Quran-MGA], Hinduism, Zoroastrianism and other monotheistic religions.

In Chapter 1, the principle of Monotheism is repeated with the concept of religion and Judgment Day.
Again this is nothing special as with other monotheistic religions.
It is only in 1:6-7 that Islam differentiate itself as having a distinct Straight Path which is different from the Judaism [which God is angry with contempt] and Christianity which has been astray.

Now what is this Straight Path which is Islam?
It can only be what is in the Quran-MGA and no where else.
Obviously that Straight Path cannot be from the so accused-as-corrupted Torah, NT, Bhagavad Gita or other holy texts of other monotheistic religions.

Therefore 'What is Islam' must be imperatively and absolutely linked with the Quran-Muhammad-Gabriel-Allah [Quran-MGA] and nothing else!
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