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Old 11-05-2015, 10:42 PM
 
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Sorry. I just intended to present facts about what Islam / Muslims believe Concerning - The covenant with Allaah.

And I found some beliefs that muslims have according to the Quran. I also presented facts about what that I have found concerning - the Evidence THE FACTS>.

I thought that What Muslims truly Believe, was detailed throughout My Post.

If It is not what Your Quran teaches. please tell me how I am incorrect, maybe I can learn something. Please take some time to eXplain what I think or say is wrong.

You may lead me to accept Allah. If What I think is incorrect. Show me the truth.
I Want the truth.

Please Thank You. kindly. Love Lace.
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Old 11-06-2015, 04:29 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laceyp202 View Post
Sorry. I just intended to present facts about what Islam / Muslims believe Concerning - The covenant with Allaah.

And I found some beliefs that muslims have according to the Quran. I also presented facts about what that I have found concerning - the Evidence THE FACTS>.

I thought that What Muslims truly Believe, was detailed throughout My Post.

If It is not what Your Quran teaches. please tell me how I am incorrect, maybe I can learn something. Please take some time to eXplain what I think or say is wrong.

You may lead me to accept Allah. If What I think is incorrect. Show me the truth.
I Want the truth.

Please Thank You. kindly. Love Lace.
This particular thread is regarding a specific question asked by the OP.

It is far better you start a new thread call it something like "What are the facts, beliefs of Muslims?" and use your post as the OP.I also suggest you avoid using the colored text. It is very much a put off for many people and speaking for myself, I will not reply to a post that attempts to attract attention with colored text.

Now perhaps we can return to the OP which is:

" In Islam, What Is a Covenant With Allah?
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:36 PM
 
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Would You not agree that Islam has rejected the Covenant of its original pagan roots.

I believe that Islam has broken and abandoned the Original Covenant with Allah.

In The Factual recorded History, In The Original worship to Allah. We find that first Allah was first originally known as the moon god.

Allah was married to the sun goddess. Together they produced three goddesses who were called "the daughters of Allah." ...These three goddesses were called Al-Lat, Allah-Uzza, and Manat.

Mohammud wrote of these goddesses that were Originally Intercessors and messengers of Alllah. --- In Quran 53.19 ... Near it is the Garden of Abode. Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded (in mystery unspeakable!) (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong! For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest! Have ye seen Allat. and 'Allah-Uzza.


The daughters of Allah, along with Allah and the sun goddess were viewed as "high" gods. That is, they were viewed as being at the top of the pantheon of Arabian deities. ..... Along with Allah, however, they worshipped a host of lesser gods and "daughters of Al-lah" (Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, I:61)".

In The Original worship and covenant with Allah. We find that first Allah was known as the moon god.
Allah was married to the sun goddess. Together they produced three goddesses who were called "the daughters of Allah."

-- The Covenant with Allah was made with the Arabians who Worshiped and Prayed to Allah for their benefit and success. Allah *( the Moon god ) Could not Hear their Prayers therefore there was need of intercessor or mediator. These Mediators and intercessors were Al-Lat, Allah-Uzza, and Manat. They were 3 Spiritual daughters of the Moon and the Sun who Interceded / Mediated the Prayers of the Arabs to Allah.

(Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, I:61) "." Along with Allah, however, they worshiped a host of lesser gods and "daughters of Al-lah"

As a Young Boy Mohammud had a Foster mother or a Babysitter named Halima. Halima Believed that Muhammad was possessed by a demon, Halima returned him to his mother. What Mohammud did to cause this or what led to this accusation is unknown..After his mother's death, Muhammad was taken in by his grandfather, Abd al-Muttalib. And after his death, his paternal uncle, Abu Talib.
Mohammuds Grandfather and Father both had a similar type Name.

Their Names both began with the the sound - Abd al. The Phrase in their Name ( Abd al) was ment as Slave or Servant to Allah or to the Great. Mohammuds Fathers name was Abd-Allah which ment - Slave or Servant to Allah.

Many People do not realize or recognize the facts. They do not understand that Not only did Mohammuds babysitter know that Mohammud was possessed by an Evil Spirit and returned Him back to His Parents. but Mohammud Himself *( as An Adult ) thought that He Himself- was Possessed by a Demon. This Demonic spirit would cause Mohammud to have seizures and convulsions, Shaking and choking Mohammud and knocking him on the ground. Mohammuds spiritual Attacks - were followed by spiritual Messages - Revelations and Messages - Mohammud received Spiritual REVELATIONS and PROPHECY - that told Him that He was a Prophet and that He was a descendant of the Biblical Character Ishmael.


Later in Mohammuds Life. Mohammud Actuality claimed to be under a spell of demonic power . A Jewish woman had placed Him under a spell of an evil power. ... Mohammud Claimed that he was possessed and began to recite a series of Quranic REVELATIONS and PROPHECIES that He later Said were inspired by Satan. These are known as the Satanic Verses. Verses that Satan Gave to Mohammud.

Eventually, Mohammud was known as a Military Man - in 570 AD - He continued to receive these spiritual Revelations - [Mohammud - Then began to gather a large number of fighting, violent and forceful men around Himself. They Proceed to Smash and break 360 idols in Mecca and demand that a single Image *( A BLACK STONE ) was the only Idol / image - that was important

This Black Stone was representing the commemorations and festivals and worship to Allah and Hubal -........ ( Hu-baal ) ....... Allah and Hubal - ( Hu-baal ) - were both moon god deities that were worshiped by different Arabs in the area. Some Arabs called it Allah and other Arabs called it Hubal - ( Hu-baal )

The Black stone idol more used and worshiped by the worshipers of Hubal - ( Hu-baal ). Some Worshipers of Allah may have worshiped the Black Stone. .....Mohammud begin to claim that the demonic spirit that had attacked Him was actually in fact the Angel Gabriel who was a Spirit / Angel who Revealed to Him that not only Was Mohammud and His followers descendants of Ishmael and Abraham but they were also called to worship the God of Abraham and become Circumcised.

Mohammuds other revelations and prophecies were given and written in a Book called the Quran. The Quranic Prophecies and Revelations claims began to reconstruct and Re - tell of the Events in the Old and New Testament in another Order, Time-line.

Mohammuds Prophecy and Revelations - Completely Changed and Altered the Time-line and Story - Line and major important events of the Bible.

Mohammud began Re-arranging and changing the Story of in the Bible - Suddenly Adam was almost 100 feet tall. Suddenly Ishmael the firstborn was sacrificed. Suddenly Abraham and Ishmael had established a covenant and The prophecy of a future Mohammud was scribbled into the Quran.
Also scribbled into the Quran - That Alexander The Great was a Muslim Convert . Alexander The Great was also Led and Guided by The God of Abraham. ... . Mohammuds Claims, Revelations and Prophecy came in Such a Hurry that although He Claimed that His Revelations were that of the Bible, However they were not the Message of the Bible. Many things were changed and Contradicting the Bible......Such as the Story of Joseph- in the Quran - Potiphar was right at the door when Joseph fled. and Potiphar believed Joseph........But in the Bible IN Gen 39 Potiphars wife called unto the men of her house who came to her cries. and. 16 she laid up his garment by her, until his Potiphars came home. And Potiphar Arrived home and believed his wife.

In the Qur'an, Joseph requested / insisted that he be put in prison so that he might avoid the temptation of women . But in Bible, he was imprisoned by Potiphar for trying to rape his wife.
Also - one of Noah's sons died in the flood. In the Qur'an, Abraham's father was an idolater and forced Abraham to leave home for trying to teach monotheism, while the Biblical account has Abraham leaving after his father's death. And Abraham left because of the lack of grazing lands for the livestock.

Also in the Quran, Mohammud performed - no Miracles or Signs. However Deuteronomy 18:21-22 tells us that God will authenticate those He sends as a prophet by having them perform signs or Miracles.
Every chapter of the Quran is filled with alternative, contradicting and re arranged story-lines that even Place Mary the Mother of Jesus as the Sister of Moses ans Aaron.

Nearly Every page of the Quran contradicts the Scriptures.

In the Covenant of Abraham, A Man may never Mary a Woman who has a Living Husband. But in the Quran a Woman can get married 1000+ times. Divorce is outlawed in the Covenant of Abraham. *( Unless there is a good reason. )_

But in the Quran a man simply can say I divorce You and that is all is needed. A Man can Mary a woman who has had 1000+ Husbands and was passed along from man to man just for the sake of the Men finding her undesirable or loosing interest in her.

A continual circle of Divorce from an unlimited amount of wives. Muslims do not need to provide a good reason for divorce. Simply being tired of living with Your Husband or Wife is all that is needed.

The God of Abraham and Islam have nothing to do with one another. Also the God of the Quran does not Manifest Himself into the form of a Man / Human. But in the Bible God appears to Adam as a Man, To Moses and Abraham as a Man. God Walks, Talks, Eats and visits His Creation. Even coming to Earth as a Man and defending, In Person, His People.

The god and covenant of Islam teaches people that the God and Covenant of Abraham is a Lie.

This is the Covenant of Islam...

I would say that Islam has rejected the Covenant of its original pagan roots and completely altered and changed the Covenant of the God of Abraham. Declaring that God and His word are *( basically) more or less - a Lie.

Last edited by Laceyp202; 11-11-2015 at 08:12 PM..
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Old 11-11-2015, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Originally Posted by Laceyp202 View Post
Would You not agree that Islam has rejected the Covenant of its original pagan roots.
I believe that Islam has broken and abandoned the Original Covenant with Allah.
I do not agree.

First there is no original covenant with God, so there was no rejection by Islam of any original covenant.
Each covenant from Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are specific to their respective time and conditions.

1. Judaism's covenant is specific to the Torah and Moses and his specific condition.
2. Christianity's covenant is specific to the NT and Jesus.
3. Islam's covenant is specific to the Quran as revealed to Muhammad via Gabriel directly from Allah from the year 610 AD. [Quran-MGA-610].

A Jew should thus comply with the covenant as specified in the Torah, a Christian comply with the terms in the NT and a Muslim to comply with the terms and conditions of the Quran-MCQ-610.

Analogy:
The situation is similar to an American must comply with the US Constitution, a Russian, the Russian Constitution, a Japanese - the Japanese Constitution, a Nazi - the Mein Kampf and so forth.
A Russian cannot claim theirs is the Original constitution and the Americans has rejected their Original constitution like theirs.
Thus to each their own.
What is significant is how the Constitution of each country or group has an impact [negative or positive] on humanity. Note the Nazi's Constitution and its evil impact on humanity then.

Similarly, the covenant of the Jews, Christians and Muslims should be deliberated independently of each other and humanity should review how the holy texts that leverage the respective covenant effect the well being of humanity.

Because the religion are independent [regardless of history and various claims] the Jews and Christians should not [refrain from] compare their religion between themselves and with Islam. Islam also has no right to compare themselves with Judaism and Christianity nor condemned they are corrupted.

Each religion should be judged on the terms and conditions of its covenant as stipulated with their respective holy texts.

Thus the Christians' covenant is dependent on its terms and conditions within the NT.

The Muslims' covenant with Allah is dependent on its terms and conditions within the specific Quran-MGA-610 and no where else.
It is useless to assert Islam has broken and abandoned the Original Covenant with Allah, as there will be no agreement on this till the cows come home.

Islam has lay down its own specific terms and conditions in the Quran-MGA-610 for Muslims to enter into a covenant with their Allah.
You can then use the various points in your post to critique this specific covenant.

My objective critique of Islam is the terms & conditions of the Islamic covenant within the Quran-MGA-610 contain evil laden conditions and elements that inspire SOME [not a critical some, not all] Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence upon non-Muslims [proofs are glaringly evident] and thus a threat to the well being of humanity in the future.
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Old 11-12-2015, 04:15 AM
 
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Default Continuum Reply

Hello Continuum - Thank You for responding to my Message.

I was distracted a little bit - by the Elaborate Peace Plan. I Think it is a tremendous, incredible task. To bend the very fabric of reality and dive headlong into the alternative pinhole riddled, fabricated reality of Islam, to obtain a fantasy peace.

Perhaps if You are a Faithful Romantic Catholic, You would Already be very deeply woven into that reality and would not even have to go wandering very far.

I am somewhat envious of You, in a playful way, Your Goals are so very admirable and beautiful. I hope that You Achieve this Peace. Continuum - I was thinking really, really hard and long about Your message and I decided to reply. . But I did not wish to respond in an envious, playful response.

my response will not be an envious - Romantic Playful response but a more sober and thoughtful application. Please Come with me beyond the CATHOLISLAMIC realm of One Step theology..... ___ Again thank You.

Dear Continuum - Don't You think that An American would be considered insane - if He demanded that The Russian Government and Russian Constitution, Throughout all history have Complied, Agreed and had been Identical with the message and mandates of the US Constitution. !

This insanity - is a perfect eXample - of exactly what Islam Does. ! ... Despite all Evidence in World and Biblical history - The Message, Claims, Prophecy and Revelation of the Quran - Demands that Its Message and COVENANT - agrees with and Confirms the TEXTS of The Torah and The Gospels. And that All of the prophets of the Torah have Always taught the Message and Claims of the Quran / Islam.

Jesus was a Muslim. Who Taught Islam.... The Torah and Gospels - Confirm and Agree with the Quran. There Were Islamic texts written and Islamic Gospels Written. Mohammud refers to the Torah and the Gospels time and time again. = Demanding that YOU are to look to them for Confirmation of the Covenant in the Quran.

it is though You have Yourself have asked me to Prove that The US Constitution has always been the Same as the Russian Constitution. until The Americans Perverted and Changed the texts.

Peace is better Achieved By The USA and RUSSIA looking at REALITY of its Laws, teXts and History and recognizing the FACTS and making Changes and admitting to its errors and repenting, abandoning its mistakes and faults. I do not wish to have peace at the price of creating an insane asylum where Muslims and Catholics can spiritually medicate themselves at the Price of individual freedoms and Rights.

But I am challenged by Your Noble effort to create Peace, Therefore I had better be careful not to disrupt and rupture the Peace bubble.

My friend. Obtaining Peace at the Price of deception falls as the need of the defeated or desperate. It seems that Your Goal is based on the premise of how much deception and ignoring can you spread and present, as a peace offering to Your enemies.

I say - Your enemies, because, - why would You have a need to offer a great deception to obtain peace, To a people, to whom you are already at peace with. ?
Don t You see that Your premise is not only filled with great Error and Defeat.

The Covenant of the Quran / Islam is not a Covenant for Muslims Alone, as You Claim or pretend - But A mandatory Covenant and Law unto all the world. - Punishments, Forcings Condemnations and Dis-Satisfactions and threats of Punishments in the Afterworld - are written throughout the Covenant / Islam. .............. I see an Imagining of a covenant that does not eXist.

Don t You see that - You simply, truly - have no Scriptures for your Claims. your Claim is based on an imaginary act of faith, to place your faith in the Prophecy, The Revelation and Personal claims of Mohammud and his Quran - That Mohammud was a descendant of the bloodline of Ishmael and Abraham. ( Your Faith in Sola Quran ) partly accepts Partial Parts of Mohammuds Revelations and Prophecy.

While Ignoring or Denying other Revelations of Your prophet.

But Your ideology itself is exactly the same as *CATHOLISLAMIC - One step theology. Which is blatant denial ( rejection) of basic Covenant Contracts in all teXts and all Historical realities. Because - Sadly the Quran Viciously and Violently and Physically demands a continual - Eternal denial, An outlawing and a BANNING and condemnation, for accepting the basic Biblical teXts and its Judaic Covenant and its Old Testament Prophesied Coming Messianic Gospel Covenant.

-----Continuum-- From The Beginning, the Mandatory Foundational Principle and CORE of the Covenant of the Quran, DEMANDS, CHARGES, REQUIRES that all under Quranic Compact and Covenant, to submit to the Prophecy and Revelation that Mohammud was a Prophet to all the World and A Revelator, Messenger of God.

not a Messenger sent to Muslims Alone, for a specific place and time - as You Claim. But A Messenger Addressing, giving a Covenant of Mandatory adhesion unto all the world AT ALL TIMES, ALL PLACES IN TIME, Throughout all history and into all eternity.

I am not sure what You are referring to ?.. Please eXplain.. I am very interested.
Because __ The Covenant of Moses and Jesus not only Confirm and Agrees with One another. But The Covenant of Moses Continues on to Follows a line of Many, Many, many Prophecies, Revelations and Predictions of the Future Role of Gentiles and the whole World -

The Jews and Gentiles the world Over - ALSO - Receiving the Covenant, Salvation Message and Salvation of God. Gentiles and the World will be under the Covenant, be Judged, be Subject to Condemnation and eXposed to and given the truth, with options and choices to reject or accept the Covenant and truth of the God of the Bible/

The Covenant of the Torah and Gospels is - not a Messenger sent to The Jews and solely sent to The New Testament JEWISH Writers and the Original Jewish followers of Christ , Alone, Solely - for a specific place and time - as You Claim. - But The Messengers of the Torah and Gospels are a Progression of Confirmed Agreement in Continuing Prophecies, Revelations, Predictions and For-told Promises - Sworn - Addressed unto all the world, AT ALL TIMES. Involving ALL PLACES IN all TIMEs, Throughout all history and onward into all eternity... and beyond..

There is no Acceptance - for the Quranic Covenant, in the Covenant of -the Gospels or Torah.

The promise of a Man born who will be Called The everlasting Father. A Man born Who will be Called the Mighty God. The - Isaiah 9:6 Prophecy - A child is born,... a son is given: His name shall be called... The mighty God, The Everlasting Father.
Many other Old Covenant Prophecies Such as Isaiah Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth *( Jesus ) a rod out of the stem of Jesse, 10 - In that day will shall be a root of Jesse, *( Jesus ) which shall stand for an standard for the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek:

And Mal 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 6 I the LORD have called thee ..... To thee to give a covenant to people, for a light to the Gentiles; 13 The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war.

Isa 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
Isa 49:22 Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.

Believers of the Covenant of the God Of Abraham find 350 to 450 Old Testament Prophecies of the Future Judgment coming to Gentiles, as the Lord Jesus Christ.

I am puzzled as to What other RECORD or what other Covenant, Relationship or Mention is there - in history - of the Character or Deity called Allah - ?

Outside of Mohammuds Pagan Arabian Family. *( Or Previous Pagans ) There is no Other Covenant or Bond but that of Paganism. No previous History of A Character and Deity Called Allah eXists.

I have not the Right to ask or demand thatYourself or Muslims believe the Message of the Bible.The Choice is Yours. You and Your Islamic peacekeepers are Free to Dis Believe and Deny the Biblical Covenant and Message. But if one such as Yourself does not believe in - the Original, Plain Texts of the Scriptures to be TRUTH. - But Why do You Yourself, Continually seek deceive Muslims and all Others concerning the basic sayings and basic reading of the text and message of the Bible.

Why do You demand that Judaism and Christianity are not the Same message. The Continuing Message and plan of a God Who Requires His Chosen SEED to Practice a Law of Cleaniness and Diet to prolong the Length of years upon earth. And when this goal has not been met, And Failure occurs - God turns His message to the Gentiles and offers another plan for all the World.

, A New Covenant that was already foretold and prophesied that the Gentiles would receive a Covenant. A plan and message that islam destroys and denies.

The covenant of the Jews, Christians and Muslims are not independently of each other and humanity - For eXample the Quran Continually compares its Covenant and religion with the Torah and the Gospels and demand s that the Torah and Gospels are the Same eXact message.

Because that the Quran is filled with Lies such as these, Muslims around the world are proclaiming that the Torah and Gospels are are corrupted and Full of Error.

Thus the Christians' covenant is dependent on the terms, covenant, prophecy and Preservation and conditions and PERFECT FAITH -and Confirmation - in the Old Testament teXts....... While the Quran is dependent on the Destruction and Obliterating and refusal and mandatory denial - of the Torah and the Gospels. And all known reality and history.

Islam has been proven to have completely broken and abandoned the Original Covenant with Allah the Pagan god of Mecca - when it left its Pagan Roots. Every Page within the texts and Covenant of the God Of Abraham declares that The 7 th Century Covenant of Islam has no place in History. Islam Can only fit in an alternative reality, when compared to the Torah and Gospels.

And Islam does nothing but continually Again, Again and Again - compare itself - to the Torah and the Gospels.

Last edited by Laceyp202; 11-12-2015 at 05:39 AM..
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Old 11-12-2015, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Originally Posted by Laceyp202 View Post
Why do You demand that Judaism and Christianity are not the Same message. The Continuing Message and plan of a God Who Requires His Chosen SEED to Practice a Law of Cleaniness and Diet to prolong the Length of years upon earth. And when this goal has not been met, And Failure occurs - God turns His message to the Gentiles and offers another plan for all the World.
I understand the general view is the Abrahamic religions are within the same strand with all sorts of claims that end up disputes and violence.

However for the sake of world peace I think humanity is better off to deal with religious disputes if Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all independent of each other. Then humanity can judge them independently by their respective fruits.

When Islam attempts to relate and contrast, Judaism below is what we get that results in unwarranted violence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5RjyxVEMVo

I understand Christianity is leveraged on Judaism, but from the present time onward I think it can stand on its own feet and be independent to avoid conflict with Judaism.

Islam has no right at all to claim any relation with Judaism and Christianity. It is so easy for any one to claim one is the next messiah.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah
In the past there have been trains of people claiming to be the next messiah of an existing religion and they are bringing the new and latest message while the former are corrupted.

Muhammad's claim as the next messenger with the same message as Jesus, Torah and other messenger was a farce and sham. I am familiar with the Quran and one will note Muhammad [for personal reasons] took the easy path to claim he was the one who was prophesized in the old texts and the Scriptures. This is all bluffs. In the Quran, it was mentioned Muhammad was accused by the people of his day as a madman, cheat, fraudsters, hearer, etc. These accusations are not far from the truth.

I think the NT is definitely an improvement over the OT with its overriding pacifist stance of 'love your enemies', give the other cheeks, love this and love that, and the likes. This is definitely an improvement of human values over time. Yet the irony is Muhammad condemned such as a corruption of the original message and reinforced more violence into the Quran 500 years later after the NT.

So, for the sake of world peace I think humanity is better off to deal with religious disputes if Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all independent of each other. Then humanity can judge them independently by their respective fruits.
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Old 11-12-2015, 10:08 PM
 
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OP, agreed here:

serve Him and worship Him as the only God without partners, rivals, sons and associates.

Any god wants this as that maintains its existence and nourishes it. The prayer. The obedience. The worship.

This is why YHWH, which is technically also a Christian god, says " I am the jealous god". If their believers give to something or someone else, they give less to their god. (2nd commandment)

That is your reciprocity. Human gives to god in exchange for(.....) fill the blank. Heaven. eternity. Eternal party in Valhalla. Religions vary in gods promises. Principle stays same though. You rub my back, I rub yours. As the result, a god may support its believers and may hinder its non believers.
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Old 12-26-2015, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Reviving this as so far there has been no consensus among the posters as to what the Islamic covenant between Muslims and Allaah(swt)

I still contend that the covenant as verified in Surah 1 and 112 is that we will worship only Allaah(swt) and not associate any equals, partners or progeny with Him.

This is further verified in the Quran that there will be Christians, Jews and Sabaeens that have never heard of the Qur'an in heaven. We also know that the covenant is for all people of all time not just those that have knowledge of the Qur'an. As the only unpardonable sin is the sin of shirk.
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Old 12-26-2015, 09:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Reviving this as so far there has been no consensus among the posters as to what the Islamic covenant between Muslims and Allaah(swt)

I still contend that the covenant as verified in Surah 1 and 112 is that we will worship only Allaah(swt) and not associate any equals, partners or progeny with Him.

This is further verified in the Quran that there will be Christians, Jews and Sabaeens that have never heard of the Qur'an in heaven. We also know that the covenant is for all people of all time not just those that have knowledge of the Qur'an. As the only unpardonable sin is the sin of shirk.
Your views are out of context with the OP.


The Principles of a Covenant is very basic and clear;
A Muslim is an adherent of Islam who had entered into a covenant [a religious agreement or contract] with Allah.
There are always at least two parties to a covenant.
A covenant [agreement] by default will comprise the terms and conditions that must be complied by each party.
Any party who do not comply fully with the terms and conditions will have to face penalties as agreed.
The terms and conditions to be met by a Muslim are stated in the Quran [MGA-610] and no where else.


A Muslim obligation to the covenant with Allah is not merely 'do not associate partners and others with Allah'.
There are hundreds of terms & conditions that a Muslim must comply in accordance to what is stated in the Quran and in accordance to the circumstances.


Thus where the Quran state a Muslim must be good and respect their parents, the Muslim must do so accordingly. Where the Quran state a Muslim must disobey his/her parents if the parents teach anything against Islam, then they must disobey their parents or kill them if they are a threat to or has insulted Islam.
Where the Quran state Muslims must cast terrors onto the kuffar, then Muslims must obey such a command.
Where the Quran state Muslims must fight [thus kill and mained] if they are wronged, then Muslims must fight [thus kill and mained] the kuffar in such situations.
The Quran exhort Muslims to migrate to foreign land to help their brothers and sisters in need to help under oppression from kuffar and other Muslims or to establish a Nation where Islam can be practiced as ideal as possible.
Muslims cannot stone an adulterous to death because it is not mentioned in the Quran.


A good and truer Muslim is one who has complied with all the terms and conditions as stated in the Quran. Of course 'all' is an ideal thus impossible, thus a Muslim must comply as many as possible within his ability and competence.
Thus the Muslim who will gain the most favor from Allah on Judgment Day is the one who has complied with the most terms and conditions in the Quran. Btw, the Quran exhort Muslims to compete with one another to be the better Muslims. So Muslims must compete.
If there are 1,000 terms [with various weightings], then complying with 900 [with high weightages] would be considered to be a good Muslim.


Therefore a Muslims must always find out what are the terms and conditions that s/he has to fulfill and note how many has they complied with to date toward Judgment Day.
As far as I know, the jihadists claim they are the truer Muslims favored by Allah because they have complied with most of the critical terms and conditions stated in the Quran as obliged within their covenant with Allah.
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Old 12-26-2015, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Your views are out of context with the OP.


The Principles of a Covenant is very basic and clear;
A Muslim is an adherent of Islam who had entered into a covenant [a religious agreement or contract] with Allah.
There are always at least two parties to a covenant.
A covenant [agreement] by default will comprise the terms and conditions that must be complied by each party.
Any party who do not comply fully with the terms and conditions will have to face penalties as agreed.
The terms and conditions to be met by a Muslim are stated in the Quran [MGA-610] and no where else.


A Muslim obligation to the covenant with Allah is not merely 'do not associate partners and others with Allah'.
There are hundreds of terms & conditions that a Muslim must comply in accordance to what is stated in the Quran and in accordance to the circumstances.


Thus where the Quran state a Muslim must be good and respect their parents, the Muslim must do so accordingly. Where the Quran state a Muslim must disobey his/her parents if the parents teach anything against Islam, then they must disobey their parents or kill them if they are a threat to or has insulted Islam.
Where the Quran state Muslims must cast terrors onto the kuffar, then Muslims must obey such a command.
Where the Quran state Muslims must fight [thus kill and mained] if they are wronged, then Muslims must fight [thus kill and mained] the kuffar in such situations.
The Quran exhort Muslims to migrate to foreign land to help their brothers and sisters in need to help under oppression from kuffar and other Muslims or to establish a Nation where Islam can be practiced as ideal as possible.
Muslims cannot stone an adulterous to death because it is not mentioned in the Quran.


A good and truer Muslim is one who has complied with all the terms and conditions as stated in the Quran. Of course 'all' is an ideal thus impossible, thus a Muslim must comply as many as possible within his ability and competence.
Thus the Muslim who will gain the most favor from Allah on Judgment Day is the one who has complied with the most terms and conditions in the Quran. Btw, the Quran exhort Muslims to compete with one another to be the better Muslims. So Muslims must compete.
If there are 1,000 terms [with various weightings], then complying with 900 [with high weightages] would be considered to be a good Muslim.


Therefore a Muslims must always find out what are the terms and conditions that s/he has to fulfill and note how many has they complied with to date toward Judgment Day.
As far as I know, the jihadists claim they are the truer Muslims favored by Allah because they have complied with most of the critical terms and conditions stated in the Quran as obliged within their covenant with Allah.
Here we disagree completely. No where in the Qur'an does it state we must even read the Qur'an to perform Islam. In fact there are examples of people reaching heaven with know knowledge of the Qur'an or of Muhammad(saws).

The Islamic covenant is the same that was given to all people that preceded Muhammad

7:172 gives the specifics as to what our portion of the covenant is. ( I am giving 3 different translations and keeping each in the context of the discourse within the Surah) 170-172 are the full thought being expressed and must be kept as an undivided statement.


For [We shall requite] all those who hold fast to the divine writ and are constant in prayer: verily, We shall not fail to requite those who enjoin the doing of what is right! - 7:170 (Asad)
And [did We not say,] when We caused Mount Sinai to quake above the children of Israel [137] as though it were a [mere] shadow, and they thought that it would fall upon them, "Hold fast with [all your] strength unto what We have vouchsafed you, and bear in mind all that is therein, so that you might remain conscious of God"? [138] - 7:171 (Asad)
AND WHENEVER thy Sustainer brings forth their offspring from the loins of the children of Adam, He [thus] calls upon them to bear witness about themselves: "Am I not your Sustainer?" - to which they answer: "Yea, indeed, we do bear witness thereto!" [139] [Of this We remind you,] lest you say on the Day of Resurrection, "Verily, we were unaware of this"; - 7:172 (Asad)
or lest you say, "Verily, it was but our forefathers who, in times gone by, began to ascribe divinity to other beings beside God; and we were but their late offspring: wilt Thou, then, destroy us for the doings of those inventors of falsehoods?" - 7:173 (Asad)
And thus clearly do We spell out these messages; and [We do it] so that they [who have sinned] might return [unto Us]. - 7:174 (Asad)
And tell them what happens to him [140] to whom We vouchsafe Our messages and who then discards them: Satan catches up with him, and he strays, like so many others, into grievous error. [141] - 7:175 (Asad)
Now had We so willed, We could indeed have exalted him by means of those [messages]: but he always clung to the earth and followed but his own desires. Thus, his parable is that of an [excited] dog: if thou approach him threateningly, he will pant with his tongue lolling; and. if thou leave him alone, he will pant with his tongue lolling. [142] Such is the parable of those who are bent on giving the lie to Our messages. Tell [them], then, this story, so that they might take thought. - 7:176 (Asad)

As to those who hold fast by the Book and establish regular prayer,- never shall We suffer the reward of the righteous to perish. - 7:170 (Y. Ali)
When We shook the Mount over them, as if it had been a canopy, and they thought it was going to fall on them (We said): "Hold firmly to what We have given you, and bring (ever) to remembrance what is therein; perchance ye may fear Allah." - 7:171 (Y. Ali)
When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying): "Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?"- They said: "Yea! We do testify!" (This), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment: "Of this we were never mindful": - 7:172 (Y. Ali)
Or lest ye should say: "Our fathers before us may have taken false gods, but we are (their) descendants after them: wilt Thou then destroy us because of the deeds of men who were futile?" - 7:173 (Y. Ali)
Thus do We explain the signs in detail; and perchance they may turn (unto Us). - 7:174 (Y. Ali)
Relate to them the story of the man to whom We sent Our signs, but he passed them by: so Satan followed him up, and he went astray. - 7:175 (Y. Ali)
If it had been Our will, We should have elevated him with Our signs; but he inclined to the earth, and followed his own vain desires. His similitude is that of a dog: if you attack him, he lolls out his tongue, or if you leave him alone, he (still) lolls out his tongue. That is the similitude of those who reject Our signs; So relate the story; perchance they may reflect. - 7:176 (Y. Ali)

And as for those who make (men) keep the Scripture, and establish worship--lo! We squander not the wages of reformers. - 7:170 (Picktall)
And when We shook the Mount above them as it were a covering, and they supposed that it was going to fall upon them (and We said): Hold fast that which We have given you, and remember that which is therein, that ye may ward off (evil). - 7:171 (Picktall)
And (remember) when thy Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their reins, their seed, and made them testify of themselves, (saying): Am I not your Lord? They said: Yea, verily. We testify. (That was) lest ye should say at the Day of Resurrection: Lo! of this we were unaware; - 7:172 (Picktall)
Or lest ye should say: (It is) only (that) our fathers ascribed partners to Allah of old and we were (their) seed after them. Wilt Thou destroy us on account of that which those who follow falsehood did? - 7:173 (Picktall)
Thus We detail Our revelations, that haply they may return. - 7:174 (Picktall)
Recite unto them the tale of him to whom We gave Our revelations, but he sloughed them off, so Satan overtook him and he became of those who lead astray. - 7:175 (Picktall)
And had We willed We could have raised him by their means, but he clung to the earth and followed his own lust. Therefore his likeness is as the likeness of a dog; if thou attackest him he panteth with his tongue out, and if thou leavest him he panteth with his tongue out. Such is the likeness of the people who deny Our revelations. Narrate unto them the history (of the men of old), that haply they may take thought. - 7:176 (Picktall)

As you can see that in accordance with the Qur'an it is the same covenant that has been given to all of mankind, beginning with Adam(PBUH) and passed on to all the Prophets(PBUT) It is not a new covenant and predates the Qur'an. Our part of the covenant is to acknowledge there is but one God(swt) who has no equals, partners or progeny and it is him alone we are to worship.

While we all, Muslims and non-Muslims, will be punished for doing acts contradictory to the Qur'an, it does not mean it will make a Muslim a non-Muslim. A Muslim is still a Muslim and is still in obedience with the covenant as long as He does not place anyone or thing as equal to Allah(swt), A partner of Allaah(swt) or a son/daughter of Allah(swt) It is true we all, Muslim and non-Muslim, will be punished for knowingly of our own free will commit acts that are contradictory to Allaah(swt) it is not part of our covenant. While a Muslim committing an act or not committing an act, will cause us to be punished, it is not a violation of our covenant.

the Islamic concept of covenant is not a mutual agreement, it is 2 sets of promises. We promises to worship only Allah (This is related to the first commandment of the Jewish, Sabeean and Christian first commandment of the 10 commandments.) Allaah(swt)'s promise is he will grant eternal bliss to all who worship him alone, forgive those who sincerely repent of their sins and reward all people for their Good Deeds, but only those who obey the covenant by worshiping Allaah(swt) and only Allaah(swt) will reach Heaven.
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