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Old 03-01-2016, 11:56 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,589,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
I don't think I suggested this book to you, but I know you'd be interested.

http://www.amazon.com/Seized-Eve-LaPlante/dp/0595094317
Noted.
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Old 03-02-2016, 12:36 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,043,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Such a challenge display a lack of intelligence, i.e. stupid and childish.
The primary intelligent thing to do is first to prove a God or Allah exists.
You cannot do that primary thing and you have to resort to such childish games.

Why should I take the challenge when I know it is childish. This is obvious.
That is not my challrnge but challenge from Allah. I know why you can't meet even a "childish" challenge.


Quote:
That is merely from your very emotional and bias point of view.
The fact is the Quran contain two truths, i.e. both good and evil elements.
You may focus on the good elements but there is nothing you can do to stop the 20% of naturally born evil prone Muslims to be influenced and inspired by the other truths of the evil laden verses.


As I had stated the DEFAULT positive is the one who made the positive assertion must prove his claims especially on an issue that has serious implications for humanity.
There is actually no need for any negative assertion.
If there is any negative assertion, that is an additional reinforcement and this must be supported by proofs and justifications.


Both positive and negative assertions must be supported by proofs and justifications.
However the onus of proof is always primary on the one who made the positive assertions, especially in this case, i.e. God exists.


In the case of the psychiatrists and psychologists they have proofs those [their patients] who claimed to be agents, messengers and represent God are suffering some kind of mental illness. When treated properly with medicines and psychotherapy most are cured and understand they are not agents of God.
Here is one example which I post regularly.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIiIsDIkDtg


Suggest you do extensive research [I have done so] on this topic on people who think God spoke to them.
There have been many such false prophets but not all. Moses, Jesus and Muhammad were never proved false by any kafir.


Quote:
It is obvious if it is a biological son.
However most people exercise a stronger emotional bonding for their adopted son given the amount of time, effort and money they spend to get an adopted son/daughter.
In either case it is immoral for a father to marry the divorcefd wife of his adopted son.
In Muhammad's case, it is not even the case that Zeyd had serious quarrels and issues with his wife and the divorced some time long time ago. From the stories [credibility ???] surrounding this issue, there is some intention on Muhammad's part to marry Zeyd's wife.
He had to marry her because it was his mistae to arrange their marriage in the first place. He could have married her even before she married Zaid as she was already know to her as part of the Quraish family.
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Old 03-02-2016, 12:56 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,589,410 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
That is not my challrnge but challenge from Allah. I know why you can't meet even a "childish" challenge.
It is a childish challenge regardless of who it is from.
If there is a real God who is all-powerful and all-knowing, God would have never issue such a childish challenge. A real God would just appear to demonstrate and confirm it.
Therefore such a challenge can only come from humans, either Muhammad or a group of men.


Quote:
There have been many such false prophets but not all. Moses, Jesus and Muhammad were never proved false by any kafir.
Point is you are not a well-read person by nature and habit.


Read for example this book recommended by Juju.
http://www.amazon.com/Seized-Eve-LaPlante/dp/0595094317
There are tons of similar books, research papers on such matters.


Because there are proven cases of people claiming to be agent of god and proven wrong by psychiatrist and psychologists, they did speculate Moses, Jesus and Muhammad could have suffer some sort of mental conditions that made them as such.
Because it happen so long ago with Moses and Jesus, it is difficult to get empirical evidence and even historical records to confirm their conditions. But if we extrapolate, the possibility is very great.


The case with St. Paul of Damascus is quite obvious a case due to some mental conditions studied by many, psychiatrists, psychologists and neuroscientists. It is the same with Muhammad. The truth is it is more likely Muhammad has some such conditions than a real God speaking to him.

Quote:
He had to marry her because it was his mistake to arrange their marriage in the first place. He could have married her even before she married Zaid as she was already know to her as part of the Quraish family.
What you are defending is based on stories where there is little credibility.
What is alluded in some story is Muhammad eyed Zainab in a state of partial dressing and it started from there.
Why do Muhammad need so many wives and then there are implications of taking turns for each wife [for what else]?
Muhammad should not have even considered marrying his adopted son's wife at all and worse left an eternal rule in an immutable holy text for all Muslims to follow till eternity.
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Old 03-02-2016, 01:26 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,043,445 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
It is a childish challenge regardless of who it is from.
If there is a real God who is all-powerful and all-knowing, God would have never issue such a childish challenge. A real God would just appear to demonstrate and confirm it.
Then there would be no need for faith. Every Tom Dick and Harry would have crawled to do sajda to Him.

Quote:
Read for example this book recommended by Juju.
Seized: 9780595094318: Medicine & Health Science Books @ Amazon.com
There are tons of similar books, research papers on such matters.
The Qur'an is the best on this matter; not humans


Quote:
Because there are proven cases of people claiming to be agent of god and proven wrong by psychiatrist and psychologists, they did speculate Moses, Jesus and Muhammad could have suffer some sort of mental conditions that made them as such.
Because it happen so long ago with Moses and Jesus, it is difficult to get empirical evidence and even historical records to confirm their conditions. But if we extrapolate, the possibility is very great.
Then possiility is great otherwise too.


Quote:
The case with St. Paul of Damascus is quite obvious a case due to some mental conditions studied by many, psychiatrists, psychologists and neuroscientists. It is the same with Muhammad. The truth is it is more likely Muhammad has some such conditions than a real God speaking to him.
Anything "likely" could be "likely" otherwise too.

Quote:
What you are defending is based on stories where there is little credibility.
What is alluded in some story is Muhammad eyed Zainab in a state of partial dressing and it started from there.
Why do Muhammad need so many wives and then there are implications of taking turns for each wife [for what else]?
Muhammad should not have even considered marrying his adopted son's wife at all and worse left an eternal rule in an immutable holy text for all Muslims to follow till eternity.
You are accusing based on stories where there is no credibilty. Who was with Muhammad when Zainab was in state of "partial dressing" to tell this tale about them? If you believe this tale you will believe anything against Muhammad.
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Old 03-02-2016, 04:25 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 754,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Then there would be no need for faith. Every Tom Dick and Harry would have crawled to do sajda to Him.

The Qur'an is the best on this matter; not humans

Why would a supernatural being be concerned with the faith?

And why would this creator of everything that exists write a book and lie to mankind about where sperm comes from?

"Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted - Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:" S. 86:5-7

Why would a creator of the universe write a book telling his prophet and the gang to go ahead and rape women:

The Apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)

I mean seriously!! This is pure evil!!!!

And after forbidding contact with women during menses (why did allah create menses of it is so terrible??) why wasn't Muhammed in trouble for all his fondling of women during menses?

"They will ask you about menstruation. Say, 'It is harmful, so keep away from women during it. Do not approach them until they are purified of it, when they are purified you may approach them as Allah has ordained." (Qur'an 2:222)

Bukhari
Volume 1, Book 6, Number 296:
Narrated 'Aisha:
The Prophet used to lean on my lap and recite Qur'an while I was in menses.

Volume 1, Book 6, Number 297:
Narrated Um Salama:
While I was laying with the Prophet under a single woolen sheet, I got the menses. I slipped away and put on the clothes for menses. He said, "Have you got "Nifas" (menses)?" I replied, "Yes." He then called me and made me lie with him under the same sheet.

Volume 1, Book 6, Number 298:
Narrated 'Aisha:
The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me. While in Itikaf, he used to bring his head near me and I would wash it while I used to be in my periods (menses).

Volume 1, Book 6, Number 299:
Narrated 'Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Aswad:
(on the authority of his father) 'Aisha said: "Whenever Allah's Apostle wanted to fondle anyone of us during her periods (menses), he used to order her to put on an Izar and start fondling her." 'Aisha added, "None of you could control his sexual desires as the Prophet could."

Volume 1, Book 6, Number 300:
Narrated Maimuna:
When ever Allah's Apostle wanted to fondle any of his wives during the periods (menses), he used to ask her to wear an Izar.
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Old 03-02-2016, 01:54 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,043,445 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Why would a supernatural being be concerned with the faith?

And why would this creator of everything that exists write a book and lie to mankind about where sperm comes from?
Because some out of the mankind like lying about sperm and others drink what is omitted like they drink alcohol..
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Old 03-02-2016, 08:48 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 754,126 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Because some out of the mankind like lying about sperm and others drink what is omitted like they drink alcohol..
You are not making any sense. Who is lying about sperm? In fact, and let's be rational here, Muhammed wrote the Quran and Muhammed had no clue where sperm comes from so he made a bad guess. Obviously some supernatural know it all would know where sperm comes from. If you had any intellectual honesty you would be starting to question the existence of that sadistic allah about now.
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Old 03-02-2016, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,589,410 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
The Qur'an is the best on this matter; not humans
The Quran cannot justify itself.
Besides the Quran was written 1400 years ago where there was no study of proper Science, psychology, psychiatry, neuroscience and all sorts of advance fields of studies that can provide rigorous proofs to whatever their assertions.


Quote:
Then possiility is great otherwise too.

Anything "likely" could be "likely" otherwise too.
That is the point.
What Muslims [most] is 100% certain from their faith.
What I have provided of the other likely possibility is based on objective and rational justifications while the believers are merely basing their 100% possibility on blind faith.


Now it is just a question of you researching in depth of the possibilities of what I have presented if you are a person who has intellectual integrity.

Quote:
You are accusing based on stories where there is no credibilty. Who was with Muhammad when Zainab was in state of "partial dressing" to tell this tale about them? If you believe this tale you will believe anything against Muhammad.
I did not insist what I have presented is of high credibility nor of certainty.


I said there are many stories of which are likely possibility.
Therefore it is not necessary to speculate and insist one is right based on one's mere speculations.
That is why I rely totally on the Quran and the principles as stated there in without corrupting it with possible stories.


Now there is no doubt, from the Quran, this is the following eternal principle from a God;
"A Muslim can marry his adopted son's divorced wife"
This is the principle and there is no need to give all sorts of stories [dubious credibility] to justify the above.
However the principle by itself is fundamentally immoral.
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Old 03-16-2016, 12:51 AM
 
23 posts, read 10,210 times
Reputation: 10
Nope we accept Quraan and sunnah both are revelations and both regarded from Allah. Why would we take Quraan not the method.
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