U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-23-2015, 11:01 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
Reputation: 461

Advertisements

To qualify as being a Muslim-proper, a Muslim must enter into a covenant with Allah either explicitly or implicitly.
(Note to claim 'All are born Muslim' is a terrible insult to other non-Muslims and such a debasing myth should be ignored.)

Here is a central point re a Muslim's covenant with Allah;
...
The word "covenant" generally refers to an agreement, such as a treaty or contract.
The fundamental relationship is reciprocal: each party provides something of value to the other. In Islam, a divine covenant reflects this mutuality in that God gives benefits to human beings and they render obedience in response.

The Quran speaks of a covenant with God, who in Arabic is referred to as Allah.
As Islam scholar Robert Darnell Jr. observes, the Quran describes a covenant with God as having three general features: the remembrance of God's favor, a promise of reward, and commandments to be followed.
In Islam, What Is a Covenant With Allah? | People - Opposing Views

My emphasis on the Muslims' covenant with Allah and the commandments to be followed.

The commandments to be followed can only be from the words of Allah, i.e. the Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah [Quran-MGA] and no where else.
The authorized concepts of 'the remembrance of God's favor,' 'a promise of reward,' are also stipulated within the [Quran-MGA] and no where else.

Any other views?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-24-2015, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
To qualify as being a Muslim-proper, a Muslim must enter into a covenant with Allah either explicitly or implicitly.
(Note to claim 'All are born Muslim' is a terrible insult to other non-Muslims and such a debasing myth should be ignored.)

Here is a central point re a Muslim's covenant with Allah;
...
The word "covenant" generally refers to an agreement, such as a treaty or contract.
The fundamental relationship is reciprocal: each party provides something of value to the other. In Islam, a divine covenant reflects this mutuality in that God gives benefits to human beings and they render obedience in response.

The Quran speaks of a covenant with God, who in Arabic is referred to as Allah.
As Islam scholar Robert Darnell Jr. observes, the Quran describes a covenant with God as having three general features: the remembrance of God's favor, a promise of reward, and commandments to be followed.
In Islam, What Is a Covenant With Allah? | People - Opposing Views

My emphasis on the Muslims' covenant with Allah and the commandments to be followed.

The commandments to be followed can only be from the words of Allah, i.e. the Quran<-Muhammad<-Gabriel<-Allah [Quran-MGA] and no where else.
The authorized concepts of 'the remembrance of God's favor,' 'a promise of reward,' are also stipulated within the [Quran-MGA] and no where else.

Any other views?
The covenant between Muslims and Allaah(swt) is a very simple one with very few but unchangeable agreements.

It is in 2 parts, the first part is Allaah(swt)'s promise to all of mankind. which is not reciprocal it is one way to all of mankind and requires nothing in return as Allaah(swt) has no needs.

The second part is man's acceptance of Allaah(swt)'s promises to all of Mankind. In order to accept something, one must believe the giver exists and can fulfill the promises.

Therefore the covenant between Muslims and Allaah(swt) is The promises of Allaah(swt) and the Muslim's acknowledgement there is only one God, who is without equals, partners or progeny. Only He is to be worshipped.

The message of "There is only one God, who is without equals, partners or progeny. Only He is to be worshipped." is the message of the Qur'an and is contained fully in Surat 1 & 112. That is the message of the Qur'an and what was taught by all the Prophets (pbut) before Muhammad(saws) That is the Muslim's part of the covenant with Allaah(swt).

Mans Covenant is clearly stated in Surah 1 & 112 it is also reiterated in 7:172
Man's potion of the covenant is:

Quote:
1. Surah Al-Fatihah
In the Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, Most Merciful


1. In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
2. All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).
3. The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
4. The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)
5. You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything).
6. Guide us to the Straight Way
7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger , nor of those who went astray
Quote:
112. Surah Al-Ikhlaas or At-Tauhid (The Purity)
In the Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, Most Merciful

1. Say (O Muhammad ()): "He is Allah, (the) One.
2. "Allah-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).
3. "He begets not, nor was He begotten;
4. "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him."


Quote:
And (remember) when thy Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their reins, their seed, and made them testify of themselves, (saying): Am I not your Lord? They said: Yea, verily. We testify. (That was) lest ye should say at the Day of Resurrection: Lo! of this we were unaware; - 7:172 (Picktall)
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-24-2015, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The covenant between Muslims and Allaah(swt) is a very simple one with very few but unchangeable agreements.

It is in 2 parts, the first part is Allaah(swt)'s promise to all of mankind which is not reciprocal it is one way to all of mankind and requires nothing in return as Allaah(swt) has no needs.
Note I have spent 10 months++ of full time, average 6 hours a day studying and researching the Quran. From this qualification [even not a full fledge expert], I dare say your points are not reflecting Allah's word in the Quran.

What I presented in the OP is exactly what is reflected in the Quran. I'll repeat it again.
The word "covenant" generally refers to an agreement, such as a treaty or contract.
The fundamental relationship is reciprocal: each party provides something of value to the other. In Islam, a divine covenant reflects this mutuality in that God gives benefits to human beings and they render obedience in response.

The Quran speaks of a covenant with God, who in Arabic is referred to as Allah.
As Islam scholar Robert Darnell Jr. observes, the Quran describes a covenant with God as having three general features: the remembrance of God's favor, a promise of reward, and commandments to be followed.
In Islam, What Is a Covenant With Allah? | People - Opposing Views
.
The Principles and Process of the Covenant with Allah

1. The Ultimate purpose of Allah from man is for humans to serve Him and worship Him as the only God without partners, rivals, sons and associates. Those who do not serve Allah will automatically be doomed to Hell. This is a unilateral threat to mankind who has no choice except to made a covenant with Allah if they want to be saved.
51:56. I [Allah] created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me.
2. If they made a covenant with Allah, therein the promise of Allah is for humans to be successful on Judgment Day, i.e. saved from doom in Hell and to reach Paradise with all its super rewards a man would strive for. There are Many verses to support this concept of saving from Hell and rewarded in Paradise and here is a couple [mine];
44:56. They [Muslims] taste not death therein, save [except] the first death [in the physical world]. And He hath saved them [Muslims] from the doom of hell,
44:57. A bounty from thy Lord. That is the Supreme Triumph.

25:16. Therein abiding, they [Muslims] have all that they desire. It is for thy Lord a promise that must be fulfilled.
3. In order for Allah to fulfill His ultimate purpose for man and for man to receive what is promised by Allah, man MUST enter into a covenant [explicitly or implicitly] with Allah in accordance and exclusively within the terms in the Quran-MGA. Here is a clue [there are many other verses] to the covenant that must be made between a Muslim and Allah.
19:87. They [infidels] will have no power of intercession, save him [Muslim] who hath made a covenant with his Lord [Allah]
4. Once a Muslim has made a covenant with Allah, Allah demands complete obedience in a 'slave' mode where the Muslim must comply [up to their best capability] with the required authorized terms and conditions as specified in the Quran-MGA ONLY and no where else.
There is no other ultimate authorized sources other than the Quran-MGA which is already Perfected, Complete, explain everything and Final.
Muslims may make reference to the Hadiths, Sira, or even their own thinking, but all these secondary and unauthorized interpretations and explanations must ultimately agree with the Quran-MGA and nothing else.

The above are the complete principles and main points that denote the critical covenant between Allah and a Muslim. I don't see where you can dispute the above.

Quote:
The second part is man's acceptance of Allaah(swt)'s promises to all of Mankind. In order to accept something, one must believe the giver exists and can fulfill the promises.

Therefore the covenant between Muslims and Allaah(swt) is The promises of Allaah(swt) and the Muslim's acknowledgement there is only one God, who is without equals, partners or progeny. Only He is to be worshipped.

The message of "There is only one God, who is without equals, partners or progeny. Only He is to be worshipped." is the message of the Qur'an and is contained fully in Surat 1 & 112. That is the message of the Qur'an and what was taught by all the Prophets (pbut) before Muhammad(saws) That is the Muslim's part of the covenant with Allaah(swt).

Mans Covenant is clearly stated in Surah 1 & 112 it is also reiterated in 7:172
Man's potion of the covenant is:
Your above views are very flimsy without the substance [main principles 1-4] as I had listed above.

In 7:172 God stated the Children of Adam agreed the Lord is their Lord. We can infer there was an implicit covenant between them. However their subsequent generations broke the covenants and later generations did not made any continual covenant with Allah.

Thus it is only logical that the people of the later generations must enter into a new covenant with Allah implicitly or explicitly. Note 19:87 and other similar verses.
To made a new covenant with Allah, the later generations must follow principles in 1-4 above, i.e. commit ['sign'] the covenant with terms and conditions as specified in the authorized Quran-MGA and no where else.

This is where Muhammad was sent with the latest [& final] revelations ONLY as a Warner, Reminder, conveyor to warn infidels of the consequences if they do not make a new covenant [implicitly or explicitly] with Allah.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-25-2015, 02:44 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note I have spent 10 months++ of full time, average 6 hours a day studying and researching the Quran. From this qualification [even not a full fledge expert], I dare say your points are not reflecting Allah's word in the Quran.

What I presented in the OP is exactly what is reflected in the Quran. I'll repeat it again.
The word "covenant" generally refers to an agreement, such as a treaty or contract.
The fundamental relationship is reciprocal: each party provides something of value to the other. In Islam, a divine covenant reflects this mutuality in that God gives benefits to human beings and they render obedience in response.

The Quran speaks of a covenant with God, who in Arabic is referred to as Allah.
As Islam scholar Robert Darnell Jr. observes, the Quran describes a covenant with God as having three general features: the remembrance of God's favor, a promise of reward, and commandments to be followed.
In Islam, What Is a Covenant With Allah? | People - Opposing Views
.
The Principles and Process of the Covenant with Allah

1. The Ultimate purpose of Allah from man is for humans to serve Him and worship Him as the only God without partners, rivals, sons and associates. Those who do not serve Allah will automatically be doomed to Hell. This is a unilateral threat to mankind who has no choice except to made a covenant with Allah if they want to be saved.
51:56. I [Allah] created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me.
2. If they made a covenant with Allah, therein the promise of Allah is for humans to be successful on Judgment Day, i.e. saved from doom in Hell and to reach Paradise with all its super rewards a man would strive for. There are Many verses to support this concept of saving from Hell and rewarded in Paradise and here is a couple [mine];
44:56. They [Muslims] taste not death therein, save [except] the first death [in the physical world]. And He hath saved them [Muslims] from the doom of hell,
44:57. A bounty from thy Lord. That is the Supreme Triumph.

25:16. Therein abiding, they [Muslims] have all that they desire. It is for thy Lord a promise that must be fulfilled.
3. In order for Allah to fulfill His ultimate purpose for man and for man to receive what is promised by Allah, man MUST enter into a covenant [explicitly or implicitly] with Allah in accordance and exclusively within the terms in the Quran-MGA. Here is a clue [there are many other verses] to the covenant that must be made between a Muslim and Allah.
19:87. They [infidels] will have no power of intercession, save him [Muslim] who hath made a covenant with his Lord [Allah]
4. Once a Muslim has made a covenant with Allah, Allah demands complete obedience in a 'slave' mode where the Muslim must comply [up to their best capability] with the required authorized terms and conditions as specified in the Quran-MGA ONLY and no where else.
There is no other ultimate authorized sources other than the Quran-MGA which is already Perfected, Complete, explain everything and Final.
Muslims may make reference to the Hadiths, Sira, or even their own thinking, but all these secondary and unauthorized interpretations and explanations must ultimately agree with the Quran-MGA and nothing else.

The above are the complete principles and main points that denote the critical covenant between Allah and a Muslim. I don't see where you can dispute the above.

Your above views are very flimsy without the substance [main principles 1-4] as I had listed above.

In 7:172 God stated the Children of Adam agreed the Lord is their Lord. We can infer there was an implicit covenant between them. However their subsequent generations broke the covenants and later generations did not made any continual covenant with Allah.

Thus it is only logical that the people of the later generations must enter into a new covenant with Allah implicitly or explicitly. Note 19:87 and other similar verses.
To made a new covenant with Allah, the later generations must follow principles in 1-4 above, i.e. commit ['sign'] the covenant with terms and conditions as specified in the authorized Quran-MGA and no where else.

This is where Muhammad was sent with the latest [& final] revelations ONLY as a Warner, Reminder, conveyor to warn infidels of the consequences if they do not make a new covenant [implicitly or explicitly] with Allah.
find one Islamic scholar that agrees with that.

I will defend your right to your opinion but it is not what I find any Muslims to believe
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2015, 02:38 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
find one Islamic scholar that agrees with that.

I will defend your right to your opinion but it is not what I find any Muslims to believe
I have not researched into many individual Islamic scholars and their views.

However if they are rational and principled-based they should agree with the above.


It is a very basic universal principle.
If one enter into an agreement with any party one will meet the main terms of the agreement. This mentioned covenant is more critical because the other party is Allah and not just mere Tom, Dick or Harry where one can fool around with the terms.

I have quoted all the essential elements of a covenant between a Muslim with Allah from the Quran and that is what is expected from Allah.
So following the universal principles, it is imperative a Muslim must comply with all the relevant terms and conditions with the Quran-MGA and no where else.

On Judgment Day, in the event of non-compliance with the Quran-MGA, Allah will not accept a Muslim's plea that he followed the book of Bukhari. Allah will probably rebuke the Muslim; "who the ... is that Bukhari fellow who had putting words into my mouth"
This would be the same condemnations in the Quran-MGA where Allah condemned the Jews and Christians for hiding, omitting and adding new elements to the pure original message from Allah to his messengers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2015, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I have not researched into many individual Islamic scholars and their views.

However if they are rational and principled-based they should agree with the above.


It is a very basic universal principle.
If one enter into an agreement with any party one will meet the main terms of the agreement. This mentioned covenant is more critical because the other party is Allah and not just mere Tom, Dick or Harry where one can fool around with the terms.

I have quoted all the essential elements of a covenant between a Muslim with Allah from the Quran and that is what is expected from Allah.
So following the universal principles, it is imperative a Muslim must comply with all the relevant terms and conditions with the Quran-MGA and no where else.

On Judgment Day, in the event of non-compliance with the Quran-MGA, Allah will not accept a Muslim's plea that he followed the book of Bukhari. Allah will probably rebuke the Muslim; "who the ... is that Bukhari fellow who had putting words into my mouth"
This would be the same condemnations in the Quran-MGA where Allah condemned the Jews and Christians for hiding, omitting and adding new elements to the pure original message from Allah to his messengers.
You will find that the vast majority of Muslims sincerely believe our obligation of the covenant is we will acknowledge and worship only one God(swt) and not associate him with having any equals, partners oe progeny. While most Muslims will strive to learn how to read the Qur'an it is not an obligation of our covenant.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2015, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You will find that the vast majority of Muslims sincerely believe our obligation of the covenant is we will acknowledge and worship only one God(swt) and not associate him with having any equals, partners oe progeny. While most Muslims will strive to learn how to read the Qur'an it is not an obligation of our covenant.
A Muslim is a person who has made a covenant/agreement with Allah in accordance to the terms and conditions of the Quran-MGA by satisfying the minimum requirement, e.g. declaring the first Sahadah to oneself or with witnesses or anything similar in essence to it.

Once a person is a Muslim by agreement/covenant with Allah, the FULL terms and conditions of the Quran-MGA are binding on that Muslim without exception.

However a Muslim [other than the primary and basic requirements of the covenant] do NOT need apply the secondary elements within the Quran-MGA if the circumstances do not apply to them. For example not all Muslims marry more than one wife, but if one were to marry more than one, then the limit is four.

There are also obligatory commands that must be complied whenever the relevant circumstances arise. For example a Muslim must fight and kill [where necessary] non-Muslims if Islam is threatened or wronged. There are many verses which condemned Muslims who are coward when justified fights [battle, wars] are necessary. The problem is the concept of 'wronged' is very vague and anything negative against Islam and Muslims are interpreted as 'wronged' by SOME [20% =300 million] sensitive Muslims.

If a Muslim do not strive to read the Quran, then they have to put their faith in the Islamic Scholars to guide them if there are to be successful Muslims and this is where the exploitation of the vulnerable arise.
The ultimate is between a Muslim and Allah, thus imo putting faith/trust in experts is like associating partners to Allah as it is possible for these experts to abuse that trust and be led astray.
So it would be better for a Muslims to understand the Quran-MGA personally unless they do not have the capacity to do so.

There is no explicit strict obligation or command within the covenant that a Muslim must read the Quran-MGA. However there are inferences where the Quran must be read or at least heard. The Quran stated in many verses that the Quran-MGA was made easy to be read/heard and remembered. So there is really no excuses for lazy Muslims.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2015, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
A Muslim is a person who has made a covenant/agreement with Allah in accordance to the terms and conditions of the Quran-MGA by satisfying the minimum requirement, e.g. declaring the first Sahadah to oneself or with witnesses or anything similar in essence to it.

Once a person is a Muslim by agreement/covenant with Allah, the FULL terms and conditions of the Quran-MGA are binding on that Muslim without exception.

However a Muslim [other than the primary and basic requirements of the covenant] do NOT need apply the secondary elements within the Quran-MGA if the circumstances do not apply to them. For example not all Muslims marry more than one wife, but if one were to marry more than one, then the limit is four.

There are also obligatory commands that must be complied whenever the relevant circumstances arise. For example a Muslim must fight and kill [where necessary] non-Muslims if Islam is threatened or wronged. There are many verses which condemned Muslims who are coward when justified fights [battle, wars] are necessary. The problem is the concept of 'wronged' is very vague and anything negative against Islam and Muslims are interpreted as 'wronged' by SOME [20% =300 million] sensitive Muslims.

If a Muslim do not strive to read the Quran, then they have to put their faith in the Islamic Scholars to guide them if there are to be successful Muslims and this is where the exploitation of the vulnerable arise.
The ultimate is between a Muslim and Allah, thus imo putting faith/trust in experts is like associating partners to Allah as it is possible for these experts to abuse that trust and be led astray.
So it would be better for a Muslims to understand the Quran-MGA personally unless they do not have the capacity to do so.

There is no explicit strict obligation or command within the covenant that a Muslim must read the Quran-MGA. However there are inferences where the Quran must be read or at least heard. The Quran stated in many verses that the Quran-MGA was made easy to be read/heard and remembered. So there is really no excuses for lazy Muslims.
Our side of the covenant is to "Acknowledge there is only one God(swt) who has no equals, partners or progeny.and only He is to be worshiped"

To perform the action of Islam we are to perform the 5 pillars of submission to the best of our ability.. the First Pillar fulfills our portion of the Covenant.

The Second Pillar--Establish prayers-- does come from the Qur'an and by following the second pillar we will hear portions of the Qur'an recited in each Rakkat.

For those, who through no fault of their own, have no knowledge of the Qur'an and Muhammad(swt) they have fulfilled the Covenant by "Acknowledging there is only one God(swt) who has no equals, partners or progeny.and only He is to be worshiped"

A person is not accountable for that which they have no ability to know or do.

However the more a person knows the more accountable he becomes and our first obligation is to always strive to learn more.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-31-2015, 02:48 PM
 
39 posts, read 24,627 times
Reputation: 17
Hello everyone. Hope You are all doing well and having a really great day.

I notice that - People tent to think Islam has a VALID Historical Connection with the God of Abraham.

But Islam is missing Many commonalities with the - JUDIAC - God of Abraham in the Torah.

For eXample ISLAM - before the 7th CENTURY has No, preserved record. No BIBLES, No PRESERVED BOOKS and No Gospels. No Manuscripts, No Record. OR Proof of eXistance. .

Its Claims are PROVEN to be incorrect, invented by a single generation and a single Character. Mohammud.

Concerning Islamic - 7 th Century Manuscripts, They GO On and on, Describing a Deity A Location and Some Characters, that are Mentioned in the Torah and Gospels. AND it also Demands that the Torah and Gospels are in agreement with its Quranic Message.

But They are Not in Agreement.. The Muslim believer also demands that there were Islamic Gospels written, that confirm the Quran. However the Gospels never eXisted.

And REMEMBER, Again, before the 7th CENTURY, ISLAM - has absolutely NO HISTORY OF ISLAM, no CHRONICLES, NO ARTIFACTS, no Genealogies. . it is Clear that - They USE the Ancient Torah manuscripts to Gather INFO and to MENTION God, Abraham, Ishmael and Israel AND The Middle Eastern Area.

BUT The Historical Manuscripts and World history and Scriptures - do not support their Claims. Islam Claims that there were muslims before Mohammud. That Jesus, The Prophets and Abraham were all Muslims. But There are no Scriptiures nor History that shows any of these claims were truth.

Because Islam has no historical manuscripts - NOR world History that shows that anyone worshiped a god Called Allah who was the God of Abraham. The Quran is the Sola Source for this Claim.

THEREFORE - to Continue on, Promoting the IDEA that they *( Judism and Islam ) have many things IN COMMON, simply is completely untruth and a False *( basically an IGNORING TYPE ) Conduct.

The Facts Demonstrate - That Islam truly has nothing HISTORICALY in common with Judaism. Because ... The God of Abraham Does not Promote or Condone Divorce. - But the god of Islam is a huge Promoter of Divorce. - A Muslim Woman can Spend her Lifetime in a continual Lifestyle of continual Remarriage. - Divorcing and Remarriage, is OK to the god of islam. This is Wrong and bad - to Abraham and his God.

the Muslim man - Can simply repeat You are Divorced - three times and the Marriage is Over.

The Muslim Woman Can spend her lifetime having sexual relations with Hundreds and Hundreds of men and the Quran never stops this behavior. This is Wrong and bad and really, really Evil to Abraham and his God

If You will NOTICE, The Torah and the Gospels are not Conflicting or in disagreement. . The God of the Torah is Visiting man on Earth, in FULL and COMPLETE Human Form.

The Spirit of God -Morphing Himself, *( manifesting Himself ) - into a Complete Human Being. They agree In Historical Context, --- agree about the Deity and Capabilities of God and Agree about Geographical Facts and Agree about the eXpectations and Laws of God.

The New Testament does not Declare a Contradicting History , Nor the Torah. It Verifies the Genealogy of the jEWS and Deals out a message of Prediction and The Prophecy to jEWS who will soon be Scattered around the Earth.

You will notice that the Quran - does not Confirm or Validate anything from any WORLD History - nor Ancient Scripts or the Gospels - Anywhere at any time.

Would You not think it best to realize that Islam is a RELIGION - that has absolutely nothing to do with Abraham.

Because the Abraham of ISLAM .- He Never eXisted in The Bible - Nor his God or Faith.

Also Mohammuds Claim that Him and His Followers were descendants of Abraham.

This revelation and prophecy - is only a spiritually received conclusion. Mohammud had no proof that a Man 2000 years before He Lived, was His Ancestor.

At Mohammuds time there was no non Biblical Evidence *( WORLD History ) - of anyone who had EVER been related to Ishmael - RECORDED in a Real Time. - Live Recorded Historical Event. Outside of the Bible - The People called ishmaelites never eXisted.

no One has any recorded record of Themselves as being Related to Ishmael - in Non Biblical - World Historical accounts. Islam has no validation.

The Quran Confirms Nothing and Nothing Confirms the Quran. The Bible However has Historical Facts that Line up PERFECTLY with its claims. The Quran has nothing.

This is what i am finding to be true. Please respond to my Post. LETS TALK.......

God Bless.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-31-2015, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laceyp202 View Post
Hello everyone. Hope You are all doing well and having a really great day.

I notice that - People tent to think Islam has a VALID Historical Connection with the God of Abraham.

But Islam is missing Many commonalities with the - JUDIAC - God of Abraham in the Torah.

For eXample ISLAM - before the 7th CENTURY has No, preserved record. No BIBLES, No PRESERVED BOOKS and No Gospels. No Manuscripts, No Record. OR Proof of eXistance. .

Its Claims are PROVEN to be incorrect, invented by a single generation and a single Character. Mohammud.

Concerning Islamic - 7 th Century Manuscripts, They GO On and on, Describing a Deity A Location and Some Characters, that are Mentioned in the Torah and Gospels. AND it also Demands that the Torah and Gospels are in agreement with its Quranic Message.

But They are Not in Agreement.. The Muslim believer also demands that there were Islamic Gospels written, that confirm the Quran. However the Gospels never eXisted.

And REMEMBER, Again, before the 7th CENTURY, ISLAM - has absolutely NO HISTORY OF ISLAM, no CHRONICLES, NO ARTIFACTS, no Genealogies. . it is Clear that - They USE the Ancient Torah manuscripts to Gather INFO and to MENTION God, Abraham, Ishmael and Israel AND The Middle Eastern Area.

BUT The Historical Manuscripts and World history and Scriptures - do not support their Claims. Islam Claims that there were muslims before Mohammud. That Jesus, The Prophets and Abraham were all Muslims. But There are no Scriptiures nor History that shows any of these claims were truth.

Because Islam has no historical manuscripts - NOR world History that shows that anyone worshiped a god Called Allah who was the God of Abraham. The Quran is the Sola Source for this Claim.

THEREFORE - to Continue on, Promoting the IDEA that they *( Judism and Islam ) have many things IN COMMON, simply is completely untruth and a False *( basically an IGNORING TYPE ) Conduct.

The Facts Demonstrate - That Islam truly has nothing HISTORICALY in common with Judaism. Because ... The God of Abraham Does not Promote or Condone Divorce. - But the god of Islam is a huge Promoter of Divorce. - A Muslim Woman can Spend her Lifetime in a continual Lifestyle of continual Remarriage. - Divorcing and Remarriage, is OK to the god of islam. This is Wrong and bad - to Abraham and his God.

the Muslim man - Can simply repeat You are Divorced - three times and the Marriage is Over.

The Muslim Woman Can spend her lifetime having sexual relations with Hundreds and Hundreds of men and the Quran never stops this behavior. This is Wrong and bad and really, really Evil to Abraham and his God

If You will NOTICE, The Torah and the Gospels are not Conflicting or in disagreement. . The God of the Torah is Visiting man on Earth, in FULL and COMPLETE Human Form.

The Spirit of God -Morphing Himself, *( manifesting Himself ) - into a Complete Human Being. They agree In Historical Context, --- agree about the Deity and Capabilities of God and Agree about Geographical Facts and Agree about the eXpectations and Laws of God.

The New Testament does not Declare a Contradicting History , Nor the Torah. It Verifies the Genealogy of the jEWS and Deals out a message of Prediction and The Prophecy to jEWS who will soon be Scattered around the Earth.

You will notice that the Quran - does not Confirm or Validate anything from any WORLD History - nor Ancient Scripts or the Gospels - Anywhere at any time.

Would You not think it best to realize that Islam is a RELIGION - that has absolutely nothing to do with Abraham.

Because the Abraham of ISLAM .- He Never eXisted in The Bible - Nor his God or Faith.

Also Mohammuds Claim that Him and His Followers were descendants of Abraham.

This revelation and prophecy - is only a spiritually received conclusion. Mohammud had no proof that a Man 2000 years before He Lived, was His Ancestor.

At Mohammuds time there was no non Biblical Evidence *( WORLD History ) - of anyone who had EVER been related to Ishmael - RECORDED in a Real Time. - Live Recorded Historical Event. Outside of the Bible - The People called ishmaelites never eXisted.

no One has any recorded record of Themselves as being Related to Ishmael - in Non Biblical - World Historical accounts. Islam has no validation.

The Quran Confirms Nothing and Nothing Confirms the Quran. The Bible However has Historical Facts that Line up PERFECTLY with its claims. The Quran has nothing.

This is what i am finding to be true. Please respond to my Post. LETS TALK.......

God Bless.
It would be best you start a new thread, as the OP of this thread is asking us Muslims about what we believe our covenant with Allaah(swt) is. I do not want to reply to your post in this thread and take the thread off topic.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top