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Old 10-28-2015, 06:15 AM
17,497 posts, read 10,649,917 times
Reputation: 6746


Originally Posted by AminWi View Post
I don't think liberal Muslims are silent. There are groups like Muslims for Peace, the Muslim Peace Fellowship, the Salam Institute for Peace, and individuals like 'Abd Al-Nasser Al-Najjar (who has written about the importance of defending Arab Christians in the ME) and Dr Ilham Nasser and Dr. Mohammed Abunimer (who have studied ways to train teachers who promote forgiveness in the ME). The voices are out there, maybe we just need to be better listeners.
Possibly the media could give them a better platform and stop giving it to ISIS, Hamas and the likes of evil. It is not Americans fault they are misunderstood.....

Old 10-28-2015, 07:10 AM
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
8,009 posts, read 3,143,711 times
Reputation: 14480
Originally Posted by MordinSolus View Post
Yes, Islam is the most dangerous religion right now. But Christianity was used to terrorize the world before Islam was ever created. All religion is stupid and dangerous. To pretend Christianity isn't dangerous just because it hasn't been so bad lately is foolish.
Everything after the bolded is immaterial. We live in the now. We must react to the now. Whether or not Christianity has been "better or worse" than Islam historically is academic. When making important decisions about how I am going to react to and interact with people in my life or who have the potential to be forced in to my life I have to consider present circumstances. To do otherwise would be incomprehensibly counterproductive.
Old 10-28-2015, 08:04 AM
7,697 posts, read 8,159,922 times
Reputation: 15093
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Might help with stereotypes.

Islam is an ideology. Its not genetic, its not like race or gender, its a voluntary belief system. As an adult, you choose it or not.

Despite intellectual dishonesty in the "educated and informed debate" that all religions are equivalent (how can they ever be? - different collections of behaviors and beliefs do not, absent some huge coincidence, result in the same outcomes), Islam, more specifically salafism and wahhabism, are ideologies that in many ways are incompatible with universal human rights (such as freedom of speech, freedom of individual thought, and basically freedom of actions which actions do not impinge on other's human rights). Sure your individual Islam may be a peaceful all-loving never-kill just-dandy-with-apostates version. But when it comes down to 100,000s of adherents following a version(s) which are hateful and destructive, its no longer just ok to say "yes but that's not Islam!" Why? because religions are living things. They are man-made, and so they change over time. They are what they are now, not some unblemished imaginary ideal.

Back in the day, Mayan human sacrificial religions (are religions are equivalent ho ho) were really impinging on human rights. Christianity had a field day slaughtering all over the middle east and the Americas back in the day). Who knows where they will go next? Though its difficult to see a religion such as non-theistic high Buddhism go off the rails to a very large extent. And while we'll see an occasional nutcase do abhorrent and diabolical things in the name of any religion, that's not the same as a significant religious movement advocating the same.

While this video shows that you can't tell or judge the characteristics any one individual from a label they chose to describe themselves with, whether it be Muslim, vegan, capitalist, communist, it does nothing to deny that large parts of the contemporary practice of Islam is not a positive force for mankind, its a mess. Especially for the "wrong type" of muslim (ie the one with a different ideology to the guy standing next to him with a gun) - the standard folk living in the wrong place when ISIS, the Taliban, Al-Nusra etc roll into town) that bear the brunt.

Go ahead, call yourself a muslim. You don't get a pass on your ideology just because you label your ideology "a religion."

Last edited by bg7; 10-28-2015 at 08:14 AM..
Old 10-28-2015, 09:01 AM
8,199 posts, read 6,122,687 times
Reputation: 11731
Originally Posted by AminWi View Post
Evidence, please?
The Koran and the history of Islam. I've actually studied both unlike most people who claim that Islam is fundamentally the same as other religions.
Old 10-28-2015, 09:39 AM
Location: NH
161 posts, read 114,324 times
Reputation: 164
Originally Posted by I love boots. View Post
This video reminds me of something my mother said to me years ago.

I was raised protestant Christian, but when I was a teenager and old enough to start thinking about it I started questioning every thing about it. My mom said to me something like, go to church, listen to what they have to say, only keep the parts you like and forget about the rest and live your life, that's what I do. I think that's what these young people in this video are doing with Islam.

I eventually wised up forgot about the whole church thing and I'm agnostic. Why belong to a group where you don't want to support what they stand for and preach?
I applaud your mother's honesty. That is what many, many Christians do, but few will ever admit it. And when you question the bible and religion they will try to answer your questions the best they can, but the far is, the bible does not contain all the answers, whether or not it is divinely inspired. That is exactly what these Muslims are doing like you say. To reconcile all the Koran teaches with secular, western civ, is impossible. Same thing can be said about Christianity but to a lesser extent.
Old 10-28-2015, 09:42 AM
Location: FLG/PHX/MKE
7,288 posts, read 13,488,389 times
Reputation: 11576
Give it 20 years and let's see how "Tom The Muslim Feminist" is doing. Actually that sounds like a good SNL skit, but they'd probably have to hire extra security for months afterwards. The whole video actually looks like what it is: Kids off-leash for the first time trying to rebrand themselves as liberal ambassadors.
Old 10-28-2015, 10:17 AM
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,436 posts, read 10,385,168 times
Reputation: 20299
Originally Posted by Tyster View Post
None of that was ever preached by Jesus. That's Old Testament stuff. And more to the point, neither Jews nor Christians practice that today. Islam, on the other hand, does.

There is no moral equivalency here.
True not moral equivalent, but not totally dissimilar, either.

I agree with you about the Old Testament stuff...except that there are an awfully lot of "Old Testamenters" here on C-D (and throughout the country); I see them everyday. Personally, I pretty much ignore the OT, but am pretty much in line with the NT.
Old 10-28-2015, 10:23 AM
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,436 posts, read 10,385,168 times
Reputation: 20299
Originally Posted by MordinSolus View Post
Oh, so the Old Testament is to be ignored? Even though Jesus said not to ignore it? You're cherrypicking beliefs, just like the Muslim extremists.
And it wasn't long ago that Christians were terrorizing the world with their Crusades. It wasn't long ago at all that Christians were terrorizing America, bombing clinics and murdering doctors.

How about anything? How about fighting ISIS? ISIS is defiling holy grounds and artifacts and murdering Muslims without cause but no one in the Muslim world is willing to do anything about it? They supposedly don't tolerate extremism but they sure aren't willing to do anything to stop it.

Most Muslims put their faith above nationality and borders, so why do they allow extremists to tarnish their faith?

How many of those shooters were motivated by Christianity? I can't think of any. They're almost universally white, male losers who can't get laid. Nothing to do with Christianity.
All religions are stupid, but not all of them are a global safety threat.
Cherry picking. Hmmm. We all do it all the time, including (I'm sure) you. Part of deciding to cherry pick is deciding that you are going to buy into a concept "lock, stock, and barrel", or if you're going to free yourself to find wisdom wherever it is. Did you ever commit a sin? If so, then you cherry picked. There are Muslims who do the same.

I agree with what I think you're saying -- the for much of the Muslim world, for many in the Muslim world, it's a farging mess. And I certainly agree with you that all too few Muslims do anything to stop the Muslim extremism. Nevertheless, I'll still be welcoming to those who do.
Old 10-28-2015, 10:27 AM
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,436 posts, read 10,385,168 times
Reputation: 20299
Originally Posted by MordinSolus View Post
...If you're a Christian you have two Holy Books, not one. If the New Testament invalidated the Old Testament it would mean that God is fallible, which would mean he isn't all knowing or omnipotent, which would the entire religion is a lie.
That's your brand of Christianity. It is not what all Christians accept. Just as not all Muslims accept jihad (as you define it).
Old 10-28-2015, 10:46 AM
Location: Denver
1,149 posts, read 986,730 times
Reputation: 1445
Regardless of what religion one follows, if someone harms others believing in something imaginary is an extremist.
I can create a new religion to worship computers and make a book named 'Holy Binary0101' and mention those who don't know how to operate computers should not be allowed to live and with enough dumb followers, we'll have computer religion followers killing others.

You can follow/worship/pray a rock or river or tree or star or moon or imaginary Gods and Satan or a turd for that matter (it's your life, your choice) but DON'T make others do what you want to do and harm if they don't.

Last edited by Mystery123; 10-28-2015 at 11:00 AM..
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