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Old 10-28-2015, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,365 posts, read 24,109,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
Muslims had virtually nothing to do with the founding of the USA. And the very small number that have historically been here do not justify bringing them into the country in any proportion similar to what we see in Europe today, or even here in the US today. That's the very relevant political issue of the day. But fine, let's for the sake of simplicity Muslims are (or have been) 1% of the US population. Immigration laws should at the minimum be structured so that this proportion is kept the same. Changes in this proportion will simply cause conflict in many ways.

...
A majority of the slaves brought into the US were Muslims and they date back to the 1500s. They were forced to become Christians.

 
Old 10-28-2015, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
Muslims had virtually nothing to do with the founding of the USA. And the very small number that have historically been here do not justify bringing them into the country in any proportion similar to what we see in Europe today, or even here in the US today. That's the very relevant political issue of the day. But fine, let's for the sake of simplicity Muslims are (or have been) 1% of the US population. Immigration laws should at the minimum be structured so that this proportion is kept the same. Changes in this proportion will simply cause conflict in many ways.


In a way, I don't disagree. And being Slavic, I also don't see myself as a part of this country's predominant Northwestern European heritage. So my family were "invaders" - but human history is full of population displacements and tribal conflicts. And I certainly don't see such matters as things of the past but as present realities. So one must consider one's own interests first before anyone else's. You would do that on a collective level just as you would on an individual one with your personal interests.
Are you aware that one of the largest groups of "White Muslims" are Slavic Muslims. It is very probable you have Muslim relatives



Actually the percentage of Muslims in the USA is now a very significant drop from
before the 1800s.

Quote:
Immigration History
The earliest Muslim immigrants came as slaves from Africa beginning perhaps as early as 1501. Their absolute numbers are open to substantial disagreement, with one foremost scholar, Allan D. Austin, putting their number at 40,0001 (for the United States alone) and another, Sylviane Diouf, estimating 2.25 and 3 million (for the Americas as a whole).2 The slave-owners sometimes appreciated and rewarded their literate Muslim slaves but they despised the religion of Islam and did what they could to prevent it from passing from one generation to the next. As a result, except in vestigial forms (one group of Trinidadian Baptists engage in practices to the present that recall Islamic ritual), the religion disappeared by the 1860s, or two generations after the import of slaves ceased.
Muslim Immigrants in the United States | Center for Immigration Studies

Keep in mind before 1860 the US population was very small and 40,000 was a very significant percentage of the population
Before 1790 the US population was only 960,000 and 360,000 of those were from Africa. The largest single group in the USA and many of them were Muslim

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr..._United_States

Although the Muslim population is at it's highest in numbers it is at about it's lowest in terms of percentage.
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Old 10-28-2015, 08:48 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
13,358 posts, read 7,027,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Are you aware that the largest group of "White Muslims" are Slavic Muslims.
Slavs have historically fought very hard to fend off Muslims (e.g., Ottomans). As for group such as the Bosniaks, they are a small minority of Slavs. Unfortunately, our resistance to Islam was not complete.

I object to Islam for so many reasons, such as its emphasis on conversion of nonbelievers, among many other things. My opposition to Muslim immigration applies to white Muslims as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
It is very probable you have Muslim relatives
It is very unlikely. But even if it were so, Islam is a religion, not a race.

As for slaves being Muslim, I don't think whatever those percentages were is a good benchmark for establishing Islam's rightful place in this country, since Islam mostly did not last among the slaves and since a considerable amount of time has passed since the time of slavery. You cannot simply use the maximum percentage of Muslims at any one (past) point without according that right to non-Muslims. If that were so and the standards were equal, then non-Muslims may wish instead for a lower allowance also based on historical figures.
 
Old 10-28-2015, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
Slavs have historically fought very hard to fend off Muslims (e.g., Ottomans). As for group such as the Bosniaks, they are a small minority of Slavs. Unfortunately, our resistance to Islam was not complete.

I object to Islam for so many reasons, such as its emphasis on conversion of nonbelievers, among many other things. My opposition to Muslim immigration applies to white Muslims as well.



It is very unlikely. But even if it were so, Islam is a religion, not a race.

As for slaves being Muslim, I don't think whatever those percentages were is a good benchmark for establishing Islam's rightful place in this country, since Islam mostly did not last among the slaves and since a considerable amount of time has passed since the time of slavery. You cannot simply use the maximum percentage of Muslims at any one (past) point without according that right to non-Muslims. If that were so and the standards were equal, then non-Muslims may wish instead for a lower allowance also based on historical figures.
Actually the numbers are quite insignificant as Muslims are very individualistic. There is no single group you can point to and say represents Islam. We are not organized in the sense Christianity and Judaism are. There is no central religious authority. Each Muslim is individually responsible for how they perform Islam.

While among the various groups that use the term Muslim there are numerous differences. A sunni is not a Shi'ite which is not a Sufi which is not an Ahmadyyah which is not an NOI and even there we have differences as to if they are Qur'ani or hanafi or hanbali or shafi'i or Jafa'ari or Ismaili or NOI etc But all wear the name of Muslim and believe they are performing Islam. Quite often each of us will claim the others are not Muslim The only thing we all have in common is our belief that there is only one God(swt) and he has no partners, equals or progeny and only He is to be worshiped.

Most of the Slavic Muslims seem to be Sufi. My ancestors Lithuanian Muslims (Lietuva Lipkas) are usually Hanafi with localized practices. The Ottomans followed a very Turkish form of Hanafi. to find out what Islam is you essentialy need to ask every person that calls himself a Muslim
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Old 10-28-2015, 09:55 PM
 
16,944 posts, read 8,625,395 times
Reputation: 9742
I thought it sucked s*&# like all those other suck *&# videos
Quote:
but im not stopped at airports because Im white
..X! white shaming, no thanks. done..
 
Old 10-28-2015, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,735 posts, read 9,848,997 times
Reputation: 9853
The problem with Islam is not that individual Muslims do evil deeds upon non-Muslims, but that they are condoned by their scriptures, and exonerated by their communities. To compound matters, their scriptures exonerate lying to non-believers, as long as it advances Islam.

This makes them unsuitable for inclusion within any civilized society. They are like mad dogs who can not be trusted.
 
Old 10-28-2015, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,494 posts, read 10,414,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
What has that got to to with anything? Our ability to restrict immigrants on the basis of things like nationality was unquestioned prior to 1965. That is the same sort of standard we should have today. The Islamic problem isn't as bad here as it is in Europe, though, but that doesn't mean it's insignificant. Allowing massive Muslim immigration is tantamount to a betrayal of future generations, who will have to deal with the actual consequences of such a disastrous and treasonous policy.
Just because you disagree with something doesn't make it treasonous. That's pure hyperbole.
 
Old 10-28-2015, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,494 posts, read 10,414,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
A majority of the slaves brought into the US were Muslims and they date back to the 1500s. They were forced to become Christians.
Is that really true?
 
Old 10-28-2015, 10:39 PM
 
16,944 posts, read 8,625,395 times
Reputation: 9742
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Is that really true?
No, it's a load of horse manure. Some yes, the majority not even.
Quote:
Their actual numbers are unknown. Some historians estimate anywhere
from a few hundred to a few thousand - See more at:
http://www.thefreedomtrail.org/educa....ZeYJ6giW.dpuf
 
Old 10-28-2015, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,494 posts, read 10,414,434 times
Reputation: 20335
Quote:
Originally Posted by saltine View Post
No, it's a load of horse manure. Some yes, the majority not even.
Thanks for those links!
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