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Old 10-27-2015, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MordinSolus View Post
Christianity is no better* so let's not play this game. Liberal Muslims are clearly very different from militant Muslims, just like Christians that only go to church on Christmas and Easter are very different from the Christians that bomb clinics and shoot doctors. My problem is with their silence and inaction.
That's a key point, and one that Bill Maher often makes.

 
Old 10-27-2015, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Secure Bunker
5,464 posts, read 2,500,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MordinSolus View Post
Christianity is no better* so let's not play this game. Liberal Muslims are clearly very different from militant Muslims, just like Christians that only go to church on Christmas and Easter are very different from the Christians that bomb clinics and shoot doctors. My problem is with their silence and inaction.


*women must marry their rapists or be stoned to death, slavery is good, people can be traded for livestock, God is a petulant child that demands sacrifices, infidels are to be converted or killed, etc
None of that was ever preached by Jesus. That's Old Testament stuff. And more to the point, neither Jews nor Christians practice that today. Islam, on the other hand, does.

There is no moral equivalency here.
 
Old 10-27-2015, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
1,256 posts, read 696,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MordinSolus View Post
Sorry, but that's BS. You're talking about a number of Muslims smaller than ISIS. If Muslim extremists were really a reviled minority we wouldn't have to go looking for Muslim dissenters. And what exactly are they doing? The extremists are traveling across the world to fight for what they believe in. Moderate and liberal Muslims aren't doing anything, let alone enough to stop Muslim extremists.
What are the metrics on which you are judging a "Muslim response" then? What boxes would "they" need to check to prove to you that they are trying? And how many people would have to be involved? Muslims aren't part of one big monolith, just like Christians aren't a single entity. The Muslim community is made up of individuals that belong to their own small communities - local mosques, charity organizations, civic groups, etc. There is no one person or group that acts as the mouthpiece for the entire community, just as there is no one voice that speaks for all of Christianity.

And are you judging Christians by the same bar? Many of the shooters in the school massacres that have terrorized our own country were raised in our culture, were white, and many were raised as Christians. Yet Christians haven't managed to say or do enough to prevent more shootings from happening. Is that because they aren't against mass shootings? Or is it because the bar you've set isn't actually realistic?
 
Old 10-27-2015, 01:14 PM
 
Location: West Hollywood
3,190 posts, read 2,501,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyster View Post
None of that was ever preached by Jesus. That's Old Testament stuff. And more to the point, neither Jews nor Christians practice that today. Islam, on the other hand, does.

There is no moral equivalency here.
Oh, so the Old Testament is to be ignored? Even though Jesus said not to ignore it? You're cherrypicking beliefs, just like the Muslim extremists.
And it wasn't long ago that Christians were terrorizing the world with their Crusades. It wasn't long ago at all that Christians were terrorizing America, bombing clinics and murdering doctors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AminWi View Post
What are the metrics on which you are judging a "Muslim response" then? What boxes would "they" need to check to prove to you that they are trying?
How about anything? How about fighting ISIS? ISIS is defiling holy grounds and artifacts and murdering Muslims without cause but no one in the Muslim world is willing to do anything about it? They supposedly don't tolerate extremism but they sure aren't willing to do anything to stop it.

Quote:
And how many people would have to be involved? Muslims aren't part of one big monolith, just like Christians aren't a single entity. The Muslim community is made up of individuals that belong to their own small communities - local mosques, charity organizations, civic groups, etc. There is no one person or group that acts as the mouthpiece for the entire community, just as there is no one voice that speaks for all of Christianity.
Most Muslims put their faith above nationality and borders, so why do they allow extremists to tarnish their faith?

Quote:
And are you judging Christians by the same bar? Many of the shooters in the school massacres that have terrorized our own country were raised in our culture, were white, and many were raised as Christians. Yet Christians haven't managed to say or do enough to prevent more shootings from happening. Is that because they aren't against mass shootings? Or is it because the bar you've set isn't actually realistic?
How many of those shooters were motivated by Christianity? I can't think of any. They're almost universally white, male losers who can't get laid. Nothing to do with Christianity.
All religions are stupid, but not all of them are a global safety threat.

Last edited by MordinSolus; 10-27-2015 at 01:23 PM..
 
Old 10-27-2015, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Secure Bunker
5,464 posts, read 2,500,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MordinSolus View Post
Oh, so the Old Testament is to be ignored? Even though Jesus said not to ignore it? You're cherrypicking beliefs, just like the Muslim extremists.
No... not ignored. Learned from. Something Islam has utterly failed to do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MordinSolus View Post
And it wasn't long ago that Christians were terrorizing the world with their Crusades.
You do know, don't you, that the Crusades were a DEFENSIVE act against violent Muslim incursions into the West. You know that, right? Or maybe you don't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MordinSolus View Post
It wasn't long ago at all that Christians were terrorizing America, bombing clinics and murdering doctors.
So one or two nutjobs out of about 250 million Christians in the US defines all Christians? Is that your position?

So I guess domestic terrorist and serial bomber Bill Ayers defines all atheists and Democrats right? Or maybe Mumia Jamal does? Or maybe Dr. Gosnell defines all atheists and Democrats, right?
 
Old 10-27-2015, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,756 posts, read 4,173,173 times
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In strict muslim families. that girl who "dates" would be killed by her family for shaming them. At least her father loves her more than he worries about being shamed.

I bet most of those people in that video don't DARE say those things about themselves inside their Mosques, in front of their leaders, or even to many other muslim people.
 
Old 10-27-2015, 01:38 PM
 
Location: West Hollywood
3,190 posts, read 2,501,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyster View Post
No... not ignored. Learned from. Something Islam has utterly failed to do.
If you're a Christian you're supposed to obey the Old Testament. That's what Jesus said. It's not a learning aid, it's the foundation of the Christian faith.

Quote:
You do know, don't you, that the Crusades were a DEFENSIVE act against violent Muslim incursions into the West. You know that, right? Or maybe you don't.
You should do some research before condescending to others.

Quote:
So one or two nutjobs out of about 250 million Christians in the US defines all Christians? Is that your position?
Are you unfamiliar with the concept of hypocrisy? You said all Muslims practice "Old Testament stuff."
I've already distinguished between casual Christians and Christian extremists so save your fake outrage.

Quote:
So I guess domestic terrorist and serial bomber Bill Ayers defines all atheists and Democrats right? Or maybe Mumia Jamal does? Or maybe Dr. Gosnell defines all atheists and Democrats, right?
Bill Ayers was a Communist when his group bombed buildings, not a Democrat. And as atheists have no central tenants of belief there is no way to define all atheists in this way, let alone by the actions of one tiny group of Communists.
 
Old 10-27-2015, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,735 posts, read 9,848,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MordinSolus View Post
Christianity is no better* so let's not play this game. Liberal Muslims are clearly very different from militant Muslims, just like Christians that only go to church on Christmas and Easter are very different from the Christians that bomb clinics and shoot doctors. My problem is with their silence and inaction.
Well, if I recall the New Testament, there is no section that advocates KILLING or BOMBING. There are sections about loving one's enemy, turning the other cheek, and forgiveness. (Your other points are derived from the OLD TESTAMENT which were bypassed by the teachings of Jesus. Those criticisms would be against Jews that still enforce those laws... if any.)

Which makes the acts of bombers and shooters to be unChristian, regardless of their claims to the contrary.

HOWEVER, the scriptures of ISLAM (Quran, Hadiths, etc) explicitly advocate violence upon unbelievers, as well as "People of the Book" (Jews and Christians).

If you cannot perceive the difference, we have no common ground to discuss, nor will I play your game.

Christians who follow the teachings of Jesus do not do the heinous acts that followers of Mohammed do.
In Islam, jihad is the rule, not the exception.
 
Old 10-27-2015, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,735 posts, read 9,848,997 times
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We all wish to live in peace, but to some, "peace" does not mean what we think it means.
Peaceful Muslims and bloodthirsty Jihadis are all Islam.

POLITICAL ISLAM
Tears of Jihad (1400 years and counting)
Kafir Deaths (cumulative)
Christians : 60 million
Buddhists : 10 million
Hindus : 80 million
Africans : 120 million
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Total : 270 million
Source : Political Islam - Islam's ideology about unbelievers, Kafirs
(Not to mention the millions captured, enslaved and abused.)

This video on Political Islam is very disturbing. Let's just say we've been fed a lot of propaganda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y

.. .. ..

Islamic State Killed 500 Yazidis, Buried Some Victims Alive - Iraq

Islam is at war (jihad) with all other peoples (kafirs).

- - - - -
Islam and Rape
...
Islam, Slavery and Rape - Political Islam
All morality in Islam is patterned after the example of Mohammed. Everything that he did and said defines what is permitted or “good”. Mohammed repeatedly sanctioned forced sex (rape) with kafir females after they were captured. The Hadith clearly reports that he got first choice of the women. In one case, he repeatedly demanded one particular woman for himself and swapped two other kafir slave women for his choice. So if Mohammed was involved in the rape of kafirs, then rape is a virtue, not a sin or error.
...
This is a continuous 1400-year history of jihad. In every detailed history that comes from the original documents from history, rape is a constant. You have to look in the original documents, since our historians refuse to report it in so-called history books.

Rape is Sunna. Rape is not a sin. Rape is permitted and encouraged by Mohammed and the Koran. Islam is the only political system in the world that includes rules for rape and war. Rape is jihad. How good can it get? A Muslim gets to rape a kafir girl and get heaven credits. All jihad is a ticket to Paradise.

The most disgusting aspect of the Islamic rape of kafirs is not the rapes, but the kafir response. Kafirs become dhimmis by ignoring the rapes. I challenge you to find one, even one, mention of Islamic rape in the history books.
..|||..
 
Old 10-27-2015, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,735 posts, read 9,848,997 times
Reputation: 9853
Let me get this straight.
Islam requires jihad (eternal war on the Kafir), which is not an option.
But they tell us they're the religion of peace.
Do they think we're that stupid?
Uh, do not answer that.
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