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Old 11-24-2015, 01:53 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
True and that is stated in both the Qur'an and Ahadith. You can call the Qur'an a readers digest condensed version of all previous revelation. Revealed one last time because in the past we kept messing it up. It is our last chance to get it right and not mess up again.
Which Mormons would argue was not the case, per Joseph Smith. What makes his revelations any more or less valid than Mohammed's? In each case, it was angels that are credited with giving them insight.
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Old 11-24-2015, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Which Mormons would argue was not the case, per Joseph Smith. What makes his revelations any more or less valid than Mohammed's? In each case, it was angels that are credited with giving them insight.
One of us is in error. We each have to do our own verification as to the validity of out beliefs. In this case intentions and effort are the imortant factors. Perfection is not required, doing our best based on out ability and knowledge is more important than be right. Allaah(swt) will not Judge that which we have no ability to do or no way to know.

While I think Mormons are in error, I do not know if they will go to heaven or Hell, each person is going to be jusdged individually in accordance with upon what they can do and know, not necessarily upon what they do, say or believe.

I would never tell a Mormon to stop being a Mormon, if they sincerely believe they are worshiping God(swt). but I will tell all people to never stop questioning or searching.

Even a Muslim should never stop searching and should always question all things they believe.
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Old 11-24-2015, 06:34 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,106,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Which Mormons would argue was not the case, per Joseph Smith. What makes his revelations any more or less valid than Mohammed's? In each case, it was angels that are credited with giving them insight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
One of us is in error. We each have to do our own verification as to the validity of out beliefs. In this case intentions and effort are the imortant factors. Perfection is not required, doing our best based on out ability and knowledge is more important than be right. Allaah(swt) will not Judge that which we have no ability to do or no way to know.

While I think Mormons are in error, I do not know if they will go to heaven or Hell, each person is going to be jusdged individually in accordance with upon what they can do and know, not necessarily upon what they do, say or believe.

I would never tell a Mormon to stop being a Mormon, if they sincerely believe they are worshiping God(swt). but I will tell all people to never stop questioning or searching.

Even a Muslim should never stop searching and should always question all things they believe.
Of course, the other answer is well that both are wrong. After all, neither revelation can be verified in a normal manner can they? They can only be accepted on faith, and as such, are not verifiable.

What if both are wrong?
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Old 11-24-2015, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,978 posts, read 22,174,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
One of us is in error. We each have to do our own verification as to the validity of out beliefs. In this case intentions and effort are the imortant factors. Perfection is not required, doing our best based on out ability and knowledge is more important than be right. Allaah(swt) will not Judge that which we have no ability to do or no way to know.
Just as a quick comment...

In 1978, President Spencer W. Kimball and the First Presidency issued the following statement: “The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.”

Quote:
While I think Mormons are in error, I do not know if they will go to heaven or Hell, each person is going to be judged individually in accordance with upon what they can do and know, not necessarily upon what they do, say or believe.
Mormons believe Muslims will be in heaven, along with Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, etc.

Quote:
I would never tell a Mormon to stop being a Mormon, if they sincerely believe they are worshiping God(swt). but I will tell all people to never stop questioning or searching.

Even a Muslim should never stop searching and should always question all things they believe.
You know, that sounds very similar to what I would say Mormonism teaches. We have been told to continually search for truth, and to accept it, regardless of where it might be found. We also believe that people will be judged on how they lived and what kinds of choices they made with the knowledge and understanding they have.
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Old 11-25-2015, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,314,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Just as a quick comment...

In 1978, President Spencer W. Kimball and the First Presidency issued the following statement: “The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.”

Mormons believe Muslims will be in heaven, along with Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, etc.

You know, that sounds very similar to what I would say Mormonism teaches. We have been told to continually search for truth, and to accept it, regardless of where it might be found. We also believe that people will be judged on how they lived and what kinds of choices they made with the knowledge and understanding they have.
In many ways we have very similar beliefs. Your last paragraph is virtually identical with what I believe.
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Old 11-25-2015, 08:38 AM
 
2,826 posts, read 1,870,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Of course, the other answer is well that both are wrong. After all, neither revelation can be verified in a normal manner can they? They can only be accepted on faith, and as such, are not verifiable.

What if both are wrong?
Both are right. But not in their original form.

This thingy.

This is what happens when religions stop trying to be right, and realize nobody has all the answers.
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Old 12-02-2015, 08:16 AM
 
4,431 posts, read 1,658,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SageCats View Post
In Islam, men are promised 70 virgins if they keep the muslim commandments.
lol haha
coming to think of it.
If every Muslim man gets 70 women then there won't be any left for men of other faiths.
Matter of fact, Muslims will take women from other faiths to reach the number '70' for every Muslim man.

May be it's God's plan to promote Gay movement in the non-Muslim countries?
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Old 12-02-2015, 08:30 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 754,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Try to find this:



anyplace in the Qur'an or Ahadith.
Indeed, We have produced the women of Paradise in a [new] creation And made them virgins,
— Quran, 56 35-36

“For the Shahid in the Divine presence there will be six qualities: [1] he will be forgiven from the first moment his blood is spilled; [2] he shall see his seat in Paradise and be protected against the punishment of the grave; [3] he shall be safe from the Greatest Terror [the rising of the dead]; [4] he shall be crowned with the diadem of dignity, one ruby of which is worth more than the entire world and its contents; [5] he shall be coupled with seventy-two spouses from the wide-eyed maidens of Paradise; and [6] he shall be granted to intercede for seventy of his relatives.”
Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal , Sunan al-Tirmidhi

Abu Sa`id al-Khudri said, Allah be well-pleased with him: The Messenger of Allah said, upon him blessings and peace: “The humblest of the People of Paradise shall have eighty thousand servants and seventy-two wives. A palace of pearl and peridot(a: A pale green variety of chrysolite; used as a gemstone) and sapphire shall be erected for him as wide as the distance between al-Jabiya [a valley about 70 kms. East of Makka] and San`a’ [in Yemen].”
Sunan al-Tirmidhi Vol. IV, ch. 21, hadith 2687

Abu Umama said, Allah be well-pleased with him: The Messenger of Allah said, upon him blessings and peace: “None is made to enter Paradise by Allah Most High except Allah Most High shall marry him to seventy-two wives, two of them from the wide-eyed maidens of Paradise and seventy of them his inheritance from the People of Hellfire, not one of them but her attraction never lags nor his arousal ever wanes.”
Ibn Majah, Ibn `Adi in the Kamil, and al-Bayhaqi in al-Ba`th wal-Nushur

Anas said, Allah be well-pleased with him: The Messenger of Allah said, upon him blessings and peace: “The servant in Paradise shall be married with seventy wives.” Someone said, “Messenger of Allah, can he bear it?” He said: “He will be given strength for a hundred.”
Sifat al-Janna, al-`Uqayli in the Du`afa’, and Musnad of Abu Bakr al-Bazzar

Anas said, Allah be well-pleased with him: The Messenger of Allah said, upon him blessings and peace:
“The servant in Paradise shall be married with seventy wives.” Someone said, “Messenger of Allah, can he bear it?” He said: “He will be given strength for a hundred.”

From Zayd ibn Arqam, Allah be well-pleased with him, when an incredulous Jew or Christian asked the Prophet, upon him blessings and peace, “Are you claiming that a man will eat and drink in Paradise??” He replied: “Yes, by the One in Whose hand is my soul, and each of them will be given the strength of a hundred men in his eating, drinking, coitus, and pleasure.”
Sifat al-Janna, al-`Uqayli in the Du`afa’, and Musnad of Abu Bakr al-Bazzar

Abu Hurayra said, Allah be well-pleased with him: The Messenger of Allah said, upon him blessings and peace: “The humblest of the People of Paradise in rank shall have seven levels and as he will be on the sixth, below the seventh, he will have three hundred servants, every morning and evening three hundred dishes of gold shall be brought before him, every dish carrying something the other does not. He will taste pleasure as sharply with the first dish as he will with the last. He shall say, ‘My Lord! If you gave me permission, I would feed all the people of Paradise and water them from what I have and nothing should go missing from it.’ He will most certainly have seventy-two wives from the wide-eyed maidens of Paradise, the couch of only one of whom is as wide as a square mile on earth.”
Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal

Ibn Abi Awfa said, Allah be well-pleased with him: The Messenger of Allah said, upon him blessings and peace: “Every man from the People of Paradise shall be married off to four thousand virgins, eight thousand slave-girls, and one hundred wide-eyed maidens of Paradise. They shall all meet him within every seven days. They shall say with their exquisite voices no creature has ever heard the like before: ‘We are the everlasting women, we never grow old, we are the refined women, we never grow sour, we are the ever-pleased women, we never anger, we are the sedentary ones, we never travel away, blessings to him who is for us and we are for him!’”
Abu al-Shaykh in al-`Azama and al-Bayhaqi in al-Ba`th wal-Nushur

Hatib ibn Abi Balta`a said, Allah be well-pleased with him: I heard the Messenger of Allah say, upon him blessings and peace: “The believer in Paradise shall be married off to seventy-two women, seventy women of the hereafter and two women of the women of this world.”
Abu al-Shaykh in al-`Azama and al-Bayhaqi in al-Ba`th wal-Nushur

Abu Hurayra said, Allah be well-pleased with him: It was asked, “Messenger of Allah, do we reach our women in Paradise?” He replied, “A man will reach in a single day one hundred virgins.”
Al-Tabarani in al-Saghir and al-Awsat, Abu Nu`aym in Sifat al-Janna, and al-Khatib in Tarikh Baghdad

Muhammad al-Bukhari (810–870):

"...everyone will have two wives from the houris, (who will be so beautiful, pure and transparent that) the marrow of the bones of their legs will be seen through the bones and the flesh."

— Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari, Book 54 "The Beginning of Creation", hadith 476)[31]
[People who enter Paradise] will not urinate, relieve nature, spit, or have any nasal secretions. Their combs will be of gold, and their sweat will smell like musk. The aloes-wood will be used in their censers. Their wives will be houris. All of them will look alike and will resemble their father Adam (in stature), sixty cubits tall.

— Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari, Book 55 "Prophets", hadith 544[32][33]
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,314,380 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Indeed, We have produced the women of Paradise in a [new] creation And made them virgins,
— Quran, 56 35-36

“For the Shahid in the Divine presence there will be six qualities: [1] he will be forgiven from the first moment his blood is spilled; [2] he shall see his seat in Paradise and be protected against the punishment of the grave; [3] he shall be safe from the Greatest Terror [the rising of the dead]; [4] he shall be crowned with the diadem of dignity, one ruby of which is worth more than the entire world and its contents; [5] he shall be coupled with seventy-two spouses from the wide-eyed maidens of Paradise; and [6] he shall be granted to intercede for seventy of his relatives.”
Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal , Sunan al-Tirmidhi

Abu Sa`id al-Khudri said, Allah be well-pleased with him: The Messenger of Allah said, upon him blessings and peace: “The humblest of the People of Paradise shall have eighty thousand servants and seventy-two wives. A palace of pearl and peridot(a: A pale green variety of chrysolite; used as a gemstone) and sapphire shall be erected for him as wide as the distance between al-Jabiya [a valley about 70 kms. East of Makka] and San`a’ [in Yemen].”
Sunan al-Tirmidhi Vol. IV, ch. 21, hadith 2687

Abu Umama said, Allah be well-pleased with him: The Messenger of Allah said, upon him blessings and peace: “None is made to enter Paradise by Allah Most High except Allah Most High shall marry him to seventy-two wives, two of them from the wide-eyed maidens of Paradise and seventy of them his inheritance from the People of Hellfire, not one of them but her attraction never lags nor his arousal ever wanes.”
Ibn Majah, Ibn `Adi in the Kamil, and al-Bayhaqi in al-Ba`th wal-Nushur

Anas said, Allah be well-pleased with him: The Messenger of Allah said, upon him blessings and peace: “The servant in Paradise shall be married with seventy wives.” Someone said, “Messenger of Allah, can he bear it?” He said: “He will be given strength for a hundred.”
Sifat al-Janna, al-`Uqayli in the Du`afa’, and Musnad of Abu Bakr al-Bazzar

Anas said, Allah be well-pleased with him: The Messenger of Allah said, upon him blessings and peace:
“The servant in Paradise shall be married with seventy wives.” Someone said, “Messenger of Allah, can he bear it?” He said: “He will be given strength for a hundred.”

From Zayd ibn Arqam, Allah be well-pleased with him, when an incredulous Jew or Christian asked the Prophet, upon him blessings and peace, “Are you claiming that a man will eat and drink in Paradise??” He replied: “Yes, by the One in Whose hand is my soul, and each of them will be given the strength of a hundred men in his eating, drinking, coitus, and pleasure.”
Sifat al-Janna, al-`Uqayli in the Du`afa’, and Musnad of Abu Bakr al-Bazzar

Abu Hurayra said, Allah be well-pleased with him: The Messenger of Allah said, upon him blessings and peace: “The humblest of the People of Paradise in rank shall have seven levels and as he will be on the sixth, below the seventh, he will have three hundred servants, every morning and evening three hundred dishes of gold shall be brought before him, every dish carrying something the other does not. He will taste pleasure as sharply with the first dish as he will with the last. He shall say, ‘My Lord! If you gave me permission, I would feed all the people of Paradise and water them from what I have and nothing should go missing from it.’ He will most certainly have seventy-two wives from the wide-eyed maidens of Paradise, the couch of only one of whom is as wide as a square mile on earth.”
Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal

Ibn Abi Awfa said, Allah be well-pleased with him: The Messenger of Allah said, upon him blessings and peace: “Every man from the People of Paradise shall be married off to four thousand virgins, eight thousand slave-girls, and one hundred wide-eyed maidens of Paradise. They shall all meet him within every seven days. They shall say with their exquisite voices no creature has ever heard the like before: ‘We are the everlasting women, we never grow old, we are the refined women, we never grow sour, we are the ever-pleased women, we never anger, we are the sedentary ones, we never travel away, blessings to him who is for us and we are for him!’”
Abu al-Shaykh in al-`Azama and al-Bayhaqi in al-Ba`th wal-Nushur

Hatib ibn Abi Balta`a said, Allah be well-pleased with him: I heard the Messenger of Allah say, upon him blessings and peace: “The believer in Paradise shall be married off to seventy-two women, seventy women of the hereafter and two women of the women of this world.”
Abu al-Shaykh in al-`Azama and al-Bayhaqi in al-Ba`th wal-Nushur

Abu Hurayra said, Allah be well-pleased with him: It was asked, “Messenger of Allah, do we reach our women in Paradise?” He replied, “A man will reach in a single day one hundred virgins.”
Al-Tabarani in al-Saghir and al-Awsat, Abu Nu`aym in Sifat al-Janna, and al-Khatib in Tarikh Baghdad

Muhammad al-Bukhari (810–870):

"...everyone will have two wives from the houris, (who will be so beautiful, pure and transparent that) the marrow of the bones of their legs will be seen through the bones and the flesh."

— Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari, Book 54 "The Beginning of Creation", hadith 476)[31]
[People who enter Paradise] will not urinate, relieve nature, spit, or have any nasal secretions. Their combs will be of gold, and their sweat will smell like musk. The aloes-wood will be used in their censers. Their wives will be houris. All of them will look alike and will resemble their father Adam (in stature), sixty cubits tall.

— Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari, Book 55 "Prophets", hadith 544[32][33]
Most of what you are quoting as Hadith are not Hadith.

Sunni Muslims view the six major hadith collections as their most important. They are (The order of authenticity varies between the Madhhabs):
  1. Sahih Bukhari, collected by Imam Bukhari (d. 256 AH, 870 CE), includes 7,275 ahadith
  2. Sahih Muslim, collected by Muslim b. al-Hajjaj (d. 261 AH, 875 CE), includes 9,200 ahadith
  3. Sunan Abu Dawood, collected by Abu Dawood (d. 275 AH, 888 CE), includes 4,800 ahadith
  4. Jami al-Tirmidhi, collected by al-Tirmidhi (d. 279 AH, 892 CE), includes 3,956 ahadith
  5. Sunan al-Sughra, collected by al-Nasa'i (d. 303 AH, 915 CE), includes 5,270 ahadith
  6. Either:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kutub_al-Sittah
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Old 12-02-2015, 12:51 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 754,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Most of what you are quoting as Hadith are not Hadith.

Sunni Muslims view the six major hadith collections as their most important. They are (The order of authenticity varies between the Madhhabs):
  1. Sahih Bukhari, collected by Imam Bukhari (d. 256 AH, 870 CE), includes 7,275 ahadith
  2. Sahih Muslim, collected by Muslim b. al-Hajjaj (d. 261 AH, 875 CE), includes 9,200 ahadith
  3. Sunan Abu Dawood, collected by Abu Dawood (d. 275 AH, 888 CE), includes 4,800 ahadith
  4. Jami al-Tirmidhi, collected by al-Tirmidhi (d. 279 AH, 892 CE), includes 3,956 ahadith
  5. Sunan al-Sughra, collected by al-Nasa'i (d. 303 AH, 915 CE), includes 5,270 ahadith
  6. Either:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kutub_al-Sittah
Ah yes, I had a feeling you'd come back with that! The other day you were telling me that there were so many hadiths that it would take a lifetime to read them all!

Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal is a collection of Hadith collected by Sunni scholar Ibn Hanbal to whom the Hanbali fiqh (legislation) Sunnis is attributed.

Jami` at-Tirmidhi (Arabic: جامع الترمذي‎, Jāmi` at-Tirmidhī), popularly and mistakenly Sunan at-Tirmidhi (Arabic: سُـنَن الترمذي‎, Sunan at-Tirmidhī), is one of Kutub al-Sittah (the six major hadith collections).

etc....

And I think most, if not all of these hadiths have been judged authentic. They certainly back each other up.
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