U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-01-2015, 09:20 AM
 
2,937 posts, read 1,782,602 times
Reputation: 6659

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laceyp202 View Post
[b][b]I am glad that most people are not Muslims.
Eh that's not accurate. While Christianity is the largest religion at 2.2 Billion followers world ride. Islam is still the next in size at 1.6 Billion followers world wide.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-01-2015, 10:27 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,221 times
Reputation: 435
"Eh that's not accurate."

It is. The world population is 7.3 billion. You say that 1.6 billion follow Islam. That's not 'most'. That's less than 25%. Most people are not Muslims.

Most | Define Most at Dictionary.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2015, 12:57 AM
 
2,057 posts, read 1,121,701 times
Reputation: 2101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I really doubt you will ever find a Muslim who would desire to force you to accept Islam. It would benefit no one and actually harm both you and Islam. Besides forced conversion is an impossibility.To revert to Islam one needs to submit fully to Allaah(swt) with sincerity and of their own free will.
I admit that I do not have a source for this statement. I do recall that recently (being defined as having been stated within the past two weeks) that Christians were being forced to become Muslims by our friends in ISIS. We both agree about the lack of quality of the homo-sapiens who are involved with that organization, but these Christians are being given the choice, "Convert or die" which makes this statement "Besides forced conversion is an impossibility" not true. Having said that, we come to this ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
While it might be possible to force you to say you are Muslim, that would not make you a Muslin, plus no one would gain a thing from doing so.
I fully agree with you, but that begs the question ... by the way I read the Qur'an, once you make the statement, you are a Muslim ... no changing your mind. That being the case, a Christian being forced to convert is now subject to being legally killed by any/all Muslims for being an apostate if they ever revert to Christianity. But for the unfortunate Christian forced to convert, makes this statement also not true "plus no one would gain a thing from doing so". The Christian would gain the privilege of staying alive.

So the situations of forced conversions would make the 75% of non-Muslims apprehensive of becoming a Muslim.

El Nox

Last edited by El Nox; 11-02-2015 at 01:04 AM.. Reason: relating to topic
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2015, 04:25 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Nox View Post
I admit that I do not have a source for this statement. I do recall that recently (being defined as having been stated within the past two weeks) that Christians were being forced to become Muslims by our friends in ISIS. We both agree about the lack of quality of the homo-sapiens who are involved with that organization, but these Christians are being given the choice, "Convert or die" which makes this statement "Besides forced conversion is an impossibility" not true. Having said that, we come to this ...



I fully agree with you, but that begs the question ... by the way I read the Qur'an, once you make the statement, you are a Muslim ... no changing your mind. That being the case, a Christian being forced to convert is now subject to being legally killed by any/all Muslims for being an apostate if they ever revert to Christianity. But for the unfortunate Christian forced to convert, makes this statement also not true "plus no one would gain a thing from doing so". The Christian would gain the privilege of staying alive.

So the situations of forced conversions would make the 75% of non-Muslims apprehensive of becoming a Muslim.

El Nox
I think you have indirectly answered your own questions.


You are quite correct those 2 beliefs by many non-Muslims are a very strong incentive for people to have no desire to revert to Islam. No person would willingly accept Islam if those were true. As there is no religious hierarchy and no way to determine who is a Muslim, Islam would have vanished within a generation or 2 if those beliefs were factual. Us humans seem to have a very strong tendency to rebel against any thing we feel is being forced upon us.

I pretty much agree with your comment:

" So the situations of forced conversions would make the 75% of non-Muslims apprehensive of becoming a Muslim."except I think 75% is much too low. I think the reality would be at least 99%

there is no central Islamic leadership that would gain from forced conversion. In fact there would be a loss of income. Every revert to Islam means a loss of the Dhimmi tax.

It you believe the anti-Islam stories on the anti-Islamic sites. Muslim Governments depend upon the Dhimmi tax from non-Muslims to support the Government. As us Muslims are exempt from the tax.

There is a bit of truth in that. In the Oil rich nations. Muslims are not only not taxed they also receive a share of the oil revenue.

but the reality is outside the Mideast the Muslim majority nations have adopted an across the board income tax system for all residents.

No where does the Qur'an state Apostates are to be killed. The Qur'an offers no Justification for killing apostates.

If one were to believe the hate sites. The logical conclusion would be Muslims do not want non-Muslims to revert to Islam as it would result in an income loss. The logical conlusion would be for Islamic nations to make it illegal for non-Muslims to accept Islam.

Follow the hate sites to the extreme and their premises become ridiculous. .
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2015, 06:57 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,221 times
Reputation: 435
"No where does the Qur'an state Apostates are to be killed. The Qur'an offers no Justification for killing apostates. "

The reason why executing apostates has always been well-ensconced in Islamic law is that there is an indisputable record of Muhammad and his companions doing exactly that according to the reliable Hadith. According to verse 4:80 of the Quran: "Whoso obeyeth the Messenger obeyeth Allah."

Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Bukhari (84:57) - [In the words of] "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Bukhari (89:271) - A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle."

Bukhari (84:58) - "There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, 'Who is this (man)?' Abu Muisa said, 'He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.' Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, 'I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice.' Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, 'Then we discussed the night prayers'"

Bukhari (84:64-65) - "Allah's Apostle: 'During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.'"

Abu Dawud (4346) - "Was not there a wise man among you who would stand up to him when he saw that I had withheld my hand from accepting his allegiance, and kill him?" Muhammad is chastising his companions for allowing an apostate to "repent" under duress. (The person in question was Muhammad's former scribe who left him after doubting the authenticity of divine "revelations" upon finding out that he could suggest grammatical changes. He was brought back to Muhammad after having been captured in Medina).

al-Muwatta of Imam Malik (36.18.15) - "The Messenger of Allah said, "If someone changes his religion - then strike off his head."

Reliance of the Traveller (Islamic Law) o8.1 - "When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed." (o8.4 affirms that there is no penalty for killing an apostate).

The Quran certainly does not say NOT to slaughter apostates, and there are verses that are less than clear about the matter. For example:
4:88-90 Then what is the matter with you that you are divided into two parties about the hypocrites? Allah has cast them back (to disbelief) because of what they have earned. Do you want to guide him whom Allah has made to go astray? And he whom Allah has made to go astray, you will never find for him any way (of guidance). They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.

So what to make of this mess? First, Allah himself made these people go astray, yet he orders them slaughtered for what he caused!! Next, verse 90 says that if these people seek peace, not war, then Allah has not opened a way for Muhammad to fight them. However, as verse 89 says, if they turn back both from emigrating and Islam, then they shall be battled.

It is Muhammed who sets the clear example, as shown in the hadith.

And certainly allah is planning to endlessly and horribly torture all apostates if Muslims here on earth do not slaughter them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2015, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"No where does the Qur'an state Apostates are to be killed. The Qur'an offers no Justification for killing apostates. "

The reason why executing apostates has always been well-ensconced in Islamic law is that there is an indisputable record of Muhammad and his companions doing exactly that according to the reliable Hadith. According to verse 4:80 of the Quran: "Whoso obeyeth the Messenger obeyeth Allah."

Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Bukhari (84:57) - [In the words of] "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Bukhari (89:271) - A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle."

Bukhari (84:58) - "There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, 'Who is this (man)?' Abu Muisa said, 'He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.' Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, 'I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice.' Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, 'Then we discussed the night prayers'"

Bukhari (84:64-65) - "Allah's Apostle: 'During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.'"

Abu Dawud (4346) - "Was not there a wise man among you who would stand up to him when he saw that I had withheld my hand from accepting his allegiance, and kill him?" Muhammad is chastising his companions for allowing an apostate to "repent" under duress. (The person in question was Muhammad's former scribe who left him after doubting the authenticity of divine "revelations" upon finding out that he could suggest grammatical changes. He was brought back to Muhammad after having been captured in Medina).

al-Muwatta of Imam Malik (36.18.15) - "The Messenger of Allah said, "If someone changes his religion - then strike off his head."

Reliance of the Traveller (Islamic Law) o8.1 - "When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed." (o8.4 affirms that there is no penalty for killing an apostate).

The Quran certainly does not say NOT to slaughter apostates, and there are verses that are less than clear about the matter. For example:
4:88-90 Then what is the matter with you that you are divided into two parties about the hypocrites? Allah has cast them back (to disbelief) because of what they have earned. Do you want to guide him whom Allah has made to go astray? And he whom Allah has made to go astray, you will never find for him any way (of guidance). They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.

So what to make of this mess? First, Allah himself made these people go astray, yet he orders them slaughtered for what he caused!! Next, verse 90 says that if these people seek peace, not war, then Allah has not opened a way for Muhammad to fight them. However, as verse 89 says, if they turn back both from emigrating and Islam, then they shall be battled.

It is Muhammed who sets the clear example, as shown in the hadith.

And certainly allah is planning to endlessly and horribly torture all apostates if Muslims here on earth do not slaughter them.
While the ahadith you are quoting are Shahih with high levels of Authenticity and reliability that simply means it has been verified the witness actually lived during the time of Muhammad and did actually say what is attributed to him and there is an unbroken chain of narrators that passed it down. The same state has also been repeated by more than one witness. But again we do not always know the full circumstances or what else was said.

The Ahadith are quite difficult to interpret and our main concern is in how the scholars interpret them and apply them to Islamic Jurisprudence. Based upon interpretations of the Qur'an and Ahadith along with consensus of the Ullema the Hanafi School of Islamic Jurisprudence have agreed Apostasy is not a Hadd (also called Hudud) crime and is not punishable by Humans. The Hanbali, Maliki and Shafi'i school agree Apostasy is a Hadd crime, but only call for death if it is proven the apostasy is accompanied by treason against the nation.

In the Jafa'ari School of Shi'ite Jurisprudence as used in Iran, no one has every been convicted of Apostasy, however many apostates have been arrested for other charges.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2015, 09:16 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,665 posts, read 74,604,692 times
Reputation: 48168
Everybody be Muslim???
It would make friendships easier as non Muslim friendships are discouraged in the Quran
I don't think it would make the world less violent nor would it promote the well being of women
The problem with one religion is they break into sects and in Islam that means armed conflict
The history of the Catholic Church and Islam have similarities
The difference is that today saying so won't get me killed by the Catholics
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2015, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
Everybody be Muslim???
It would make friendships easier as non Muslim friendships are discouraged in the Quran
I don't think it would make the world less violent nor would it promote the well being of women
The problem with one religion is they break into sects and in Islam that means armed conflict
The history of the Catholic Church and Islam have similarities
The difference is that today saying so won't get me killed by the Catholics
Contrary to populary belief friendships with non-Muslims are not discourged. that is a fallacy highly promoted by the anti-Islam sites.

The word Saddiq (friend) does not even appear in the Qur'an. the word translated as friend in many translations is Wali.

While a Wali should be a friend, a wali is a person's mentor, leader, protector, religious guide. Wali also translates as Governor, parent or any high ranking government official.

Some of Muhammad's friends (Saddiq) were not Muslims.

Quote:
In an authentic tradition, Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)is reported to have said: “Whenever you see a funeral procession, stand up till the procession goes ahead of you”. [1] One day a funeral procession passed in front of him and he stood up. When he was told that it was the coffin of a Jew, he said, "Is it not a living being (soul)?" Also, Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) used to visit non-Muslims who were sick. Hence, the Prophet (Peace be upon him)visited Abu Talib in his sickness, and he also visited a sick Jewish boy. [2]

He (Peace be upon him) observed people's rights in terms of good neighborliness, as he said: ““The best of companions with Allah is the one who is best to his companion, and the best of neighbors with Him is the one who is best to his neighbor”.[3] The tradition included every neighbor, even if he was a non-Muslim.

Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) did not come to deprive those who did not follow him of freedom. Instead, he treated them with a rare form of tolerance. The following are some of the most important principles of Prophet Muhammad’s (Peace be upon him) treatment of non-Muslims:
The Prophet
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2015, 11:37 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,221 times
Reputation: 435
"Contrary to populary belief friendships with non-Muslims are not discourged. that is a fallacy highly promoted by the anti-Islam sites."

This makes no sense. Why would allah, who intends that "garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods” by his very own effort....the same allah who dictated hundreds of verses about how he was going to burn the disbelievers in everlasting hellfire and endless horrible torture....the same allah that OKed the rape of non-Muslim women and the same allah hat commanded the slaughter of non-Muslims....why would he be happy about Muslims being friends of disbelievers?

Let's see what the Quran says:

8:55 Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are those who have disbelieved, and they will not [ever] believe .... but you should enjoy their friendship and companionship.....whoops, I added that last part.

3:128 Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.

That doesn't sound too friendly!

3:56 And as for those who disbelieved, I will punish them with a severe punishment in this world and the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers....from their Christian friends, however all their Muslim friends will save them from my terrible wrath and torture! .... Whoops, I added that last part here also!

4:89 They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.

Goodness, this is really hateful!

I could go on and on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2015, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"Contrary to populary belief friendships with non-Muslims are not discourged. that is a fallacy highly promoted by the anti-Islam sites."

This makes no sense. Why would allah, who intends that "garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods” by his very own effort....the same allah who dictated hundreds of verses about how he was going to burn the disbelievers in everlasting hellfire and endless horrible torture....the same allah that OKed the rape of non-Muslim women and the same allah hat commanded the slaughter of non-Muslims....why would he be happy about Muslims being friends of disbelievers?

Let's see what the Quran says:

8:55 Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are those who have disbelieved, and they will not [ever] believe .... but you should enjoy their friendship and companionship.....whoops, I added that last part.

3:128 Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.

That doesn't sound too friendly!

3:56 And as for those who disbelieved, I will punish them with a severe punishment in this world and the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers....from their Christian friends, however all their Muslim friends will save them from my terrible wrath and torture! .... Whoops, I added that last part here also!

4:89 They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.

Goodness, this is really hateful!

I could go on and on.
Only sounds hateful if you do not comprehend the full surah and further understand that most ayyat are not to be taken as commands.

In 8:55 the word being translated as disbelievers is Kafaroo (The plural of Kafir)

Looking at some other translations, you may notice it is not refering simply to non-Muslims. The Kafaroo are people that actively hate Allaah(swt) and despise Muslims. They are very active at letting it be known they would kill all Muslims if they had a chance. they have also expressed hatred of Allaah(swt)

3:128
Reads as

لَيْسَ لَكَ مِنَ الأَمْرِ شَيْءٌ أَوْ يَتُوبَ عَلَيْهِمْ أَوْ يُعَذَّبَهُمْ فَإِنَّهُمْ ظَالِمُونَ (3:128)

Laysa laka mina alamri shayon aw yatooba AAalayhim aw yuAAaththibahum fainnahum thalimoona

[And] it is in no wise for thee [O Prophet] to decide whether He shall accept their repentance or chastise them - for, behold, they are but wrongdoers, - 3:128 (Asad)

Not for thee, (but for Allah., is the decision: Whether He turn in mercy to them, or punish them; for they are indeed wrong-doers. - 3:128 (Y. Ali)

It is no concern at all of thee (Muhammad) whether He relent toward them or punish them; for they are evildoers. - 3:128 (Picktall)

I think you meant. 3:28 which is
La yattakhithi almuminoona alkafireena awliyaa min dooni almumineena waman yafAAal thalika falaysa mina Allahi fee shayin illa an tattaqoo minhum tuqatan wayuhaththirukumu Allahu nafsahu waila Allahi almaseeru

LET NOT the believers take those who deny the truth for their allies in preference to the believers [19] - since he who does this cuts himself off from God in everything - unless it be to protect yourselves against them in this way. [20] But God warns you to beware of Him: for with God is all journeys' end. - 3:28 (Asad)

Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah. except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah. - 3:28 (Y. Ali)

Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking (as it were) security. Allah biddeth you beware (only) of Himself. Unto Allah is the journeying. - 3:28 (Picktall)
the word being used is awliyaa which is the plural of wali, which I explained already.

3:56 actually reads as
فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ فَأُعَذِّبُهُمْ عَذَابًا شَدِيدًا فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالآخِرَةِ وَمَا لَهُم مِّن نَّاصِرِينَ (3:56)

Faamma allatheena kafaroo faoAAaththibuhum AAathaban shadeedan fee alddunya waalakhirati wama lahum min nasireena

"And as for those who are bent on denying the truth, I shall cause them to suffer a suffering severe in this world and in the life to come, and they shall have none to succour them; - 3:56 (Asad)

"As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help." - 3:56 (Y. Ali)

As for those who disbelieve I shall chastise them with a heavy chastisement in the world and the Hereafter; and they will have no helpers. - 3:56
Again the word used is kafaroo, which I explained already.

4:89

Has to be read in conjuction with 88 in order to understand who is being spoken of.

فَمَا لَكُمْ فِي الْمُنَافِقِينَ فِئَتَيْنِ وَاللّهُ أَرْكَسَهُم بِمَا كَسَبُواْ أَتُرِيدُونَ أَن تَهْدُواْ مَنْ أَضَلَّ اللّهُ وَمَن يُضْلِلِ اللّهُ فَلَن تَجِدَ لَهُ سَبِيلاً (4:88)

Fama lakum fee almunafiqeena fiatayni waAllahu arkasahum bima kasaboo atureedoona an tahdoo man adalla Allahu waman yudlili Allahu falan tajida lahu sabeelan

How, then, could you be of two minds [106] about the hypocrites, seeing that God [Himself] has disowned them because of their guilt? [107] Do you, perchance, seek to guide those whom God has let go astray - when for him whom God lets go astray thou canst never find any way? - 4:88 (Asad)

Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way. - 4:88 (Y. Ali)

What aileth you that ye are become two parties regarding the hypocrites, when Allah cast them back (to disbelief) because of what they earned? Seek ye to guide him whom Allah hath sent astray? He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him thou (O Muhammad) canst not find a road. - 4:88 (Picktall)



An-Nisa (The Women) - 4:89
وَدُّواْ لَوْ تَكْفُرُونَ كَمَا كَفَرُواْ فَتَكُونُونَ سَوَاء فَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء حَتَّىَ يُهَاجِرُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ فَإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَخُذُوهُمْ وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ وَجَدتَّمُوهُمْ وَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ وَلِيًّا وَلاَ نَصِيرًا (4:89)

Waddoo law takfuroona kama kafaroo fatakoonoona sawaan fala tattakhithoo minhum awliyaa hatta yuhajiroo fee sabeeli Allahi fain tawallaw fakhuthoohum waoqtuloohum haythu wajadtumoohum wala tattakhithoo minhum waliyyan wala naseeran

They would love to see you deny the truth even as they have denied it, so that you should be like them. Do not, therefore, take them for your allies until they forsake the domain of evil [108] for the sake of God; and if they revert to [open] enmity, seize them and slay them wherever you may find them. And do not take any of them [109] for your ally or giver of succour, - 4:89 (Asad)

They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;- - 4:89 (Y. Ali)

They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them, - 4:89 (Picktall)
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top