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Old 11-06-2015, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"It is not my place to label anyone a terrorist or left wing or right wing oe moderate."

Look, you said this: "As for an "Islamic attack" here in the USA there is a much greater probability of a violent Right Wing attack"

Then, as evidence, you posted the link to an article and study that mislabeled people as 'right wing'. Take responsibility for that, unless you can prove these people were indeed right wingers.

"I do agree that if one wants to know what a right winger is they should look at Right wing sites. "

They should check objective sites.

"Jews like all people have their share of extremists that have and do commit murders. But that does not reflect on Judaism and the Majority of Jews It is not the purpose of this thread or forum to demean any religion.I will not speak ill of Jews as a group. None of my Jewish friends have ever committed an act of terrorism and I will not include any Jewish terrorists in the same category as my Jewish friends and Jewish relatives."

Yet you were all too happy to point to a study that dishonestly demeaned right wingers.

My point, which I made very clear, was about POPULATION. The Jewish population is far closer to the Muslim population in America than the white population. When studies are done, it is proper to compare apples to apples.

Your study compared a vastly different population, not to mention dishonestly grouping different religions and mental deficiencies into one group (right wingers). DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHY THAT IS WRONG??
Were did I ever say right wingers were a religion? For correctness, I admit, I should have said they are what a site calls right wingers.
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Were did I ever say right wingers were a religion? For correctness, I admit, I should have said they are what a site calls right wingers.
For more clarity I will add there are a number of sites that call the extremest nut-jobs right-wingers. Perhaps they are wrong, but that is becoming the vernacular concept of right winger

A few examples:

Right-Wing Extremists More Dangerous Than Islamic Terrorists In U.S. : NPR

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/op...or-threat.html

Right Wing Poses Bigger Danger Than 'Jihadists' | Al Jazeera America

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism

https://books.google.com/books?id=5S...%20USA&f=false

DHS report warns of domestic terror threat - CNNPolitics.com

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs...lims-fbi-warns

Homeland Security Warns Right Wing Extremists Are An Equal Or Greater Threat Than ISIS

Numbers USA | Right Wing Watch

White Hate Groups: More Dangerous to U.S. Than Muslim Terrorists

The Rise of Violent Right-Wing Extremism, Explained | Mother Jones
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:25 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
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"Were did I ever say right wingers were a religion? "

I never accused you of that so I have no idea what you are accusing me.

And guess what! The 'study' you presented started soon AFTER 9-11, which omitted the mass murder of so many people at the hands of Muslims that it makes the "Total number of people killed" in the study a complete joke.

OMG! I just noticed they even included Andrew Joseph Stack as one of the right wingers! And Raymond Peake! And even Joshua Cartwright, Albert Gaxiola, Shawna Forde and Joshua Bush, who killed Raul Flores and his 9-year-old daughter while robbing their house. Come to think of it, weren't the Beltway Snipers going on about jihad against America?? Why aren't they on the list?

A series of trial exhibits suggested Malvo and Muhammad were motivated by an affinity for Islamist Jihad.[38]

Exhibit 65-006: A self-portrait of Malvo in the cross hairs of a gun scope shouting, "ALLAH AKBAR!" The word "SALAAM" scrawled vertically. A lyric from Bob Marley's Natural Mystic "Many more will have to suffer. Many more will have to die. Don't ask me why."
Exhibit 65-016: A portrait of Saddam Hussein with the words "INSHALLAH" and "The Protector," surrounded by rockets labeled "chem" and "nuk".
Exhibit 65-043: Father and son portrait of Malvo and Muhammad. "We will kill them all. Jihad."
Exhibit 65-056: A self-portrait of Malvo as sniper, lying in wait, with his rifle. "JIHAD" written in bold letters.
Exhibit 65-067: A suicide bomber labeled "Hamas" walking into a McDonald's restaurant. Another drawing of the Twin Towers burning captioned: "85 percent chance Zionists did this." More scrawls: "ALLAH AKBAR," "JIHAD," and "Islam will explode."
Exhibit 65-103: A lion accompanies chapter and verse from the Quran (Sura 2:190): "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you and slay them wherever ye catch them."
Exhibit 65-109: Portrait of Osama bin Laden, captioned "Servant of Allah."
Exhibit 65-117: The White House drawn in crosshairs, surrounded by missiles, with a warning: "Sep. 11 we will ensure will look like a picnic to you" and "you will bleed to death little by little."
Exhibit 65-101: Malvo's thought for the day: "Islam the only true guidance, the way of peace."

Last edited by juju33312; 11-06-2015 at 10:21 AM.. Reason: add more info on poor study.
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Old 11-06-2015, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"Were did I ever say right wingers were a religion? "

I never accused you of that so I have no idea what you are accusing me.

And guess what! The 'study' you presented started soon AFTER 9-11, which omitted the mass murder of so many people at the hands of Muslims that it makes the "Total number of people killed" in the study a complete joke.
Not really in the context of the number of attacks and the number of attackers involved. Yes 9/11 is probably the largest number of people ever killed by a terrorist attack But it was carried out by 19 attackers, which except for the 4 pilots were probably unaware of the true purpose of the attack.

Al Qaeda Figures Say 9/11 Defendant Was Unaware of Plot, U.S. Tells Court (washingtonpost.com)

Al Qaeda Figures Say 9/11 Defendant Was Unaware of Plot, U.S. Tells Court (washingtonpost.com)

Although the body count is very high, the actual number of Muslim attackers by plane is very low.

World wide and in the entire history of aviation there have been 4 planes ever involved in suicide attacks by Muslims, but there have been at least 22 by non-Muslims.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_pilot

I do not want to minimize the atrocity of 9/11 but that was the only time Muslims have ever flown planes into buildings. It is not a common practice by Muslims and is not representative of Islam. Just as the other known 22 attacks by planes do not represent Christians, atheists or any other people.

It should also be noted that all of the known Muslim terrorists to date have been Salafi or followers of Wahhabi.
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Old 11-06-2015, 05:25 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
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"Although the body count is very high, the actual number of Muslim attackers by plane is very low."

How many helpers did they have?

And I'm not forgetting all the Muslims that celebrated 9-11.

9-11 was horrific and does not compare to any other plane hijacking. Do not dare try to compare.

What is representative of Islam is deadly terrorist attacks in the name of allah and they go on EVERY SINGLE DAY. Since 9-11, there have been over 27,000 deadly terrorist attacks in the name of allah.

"It should also be noted that all of the known Muslim terrorists to date have been Salafi or followers of Wahhabi."

Even if this were true, the subgroups are actually irrelevant. They're all muslim. The factions are meaningless because the substance of islam is submission to Muhammed and allah who demand terrorism and hate and hell and endless torture for all disbelievers. Without researching, your claim seems obviously inaccurate. For example, Iranians are Shia, yet have sponsored and Iranian agents have carried out, terrorist attacks around the world.

I once challenged you to match my weekly list of DEADLY ISLAMIC terrorist attacks where I would list weekly Muslim terrorist attacks where people were slaughtered and you would list other terrorist attacks where people were slaughtered.

You declined. My offer stands.
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Old 11-06-2015, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Not really in the context of the number of attacks and the number of attackers involved. Yes 9/11 is probably the largest number of people ever killed by a terrorist attack But it was carried out by 19 attackers, which except for the 4 pilots were probably unaware of the true purpose of the attack.

Al Qaeda Figures Say 9/11 Defendant Was Unaware of Plot, U.S. Tells Court (washingtonpost.com)

Al Qaeda Figures Say 9/11 Defendant Was Unaware of Plot, U.S. Tells Court (washingtonpost.com)

Although the body count is very high, the actual number of Muslim attackers by plane is very low.

World wide and in the entire history of aviation there have been 4 planes ever involved in suicide attacks by Muslims, but there have been at least 22 by non-Muslims.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_pilot
Within the 7 billion of people there will always be attacks by all sort of people for various reasons. Obviously we need to condemn such attacks and take preventive actions.

However you are being deceptive here by straying from the main subject of this 'Religion & Spiritual' forum.
Within this forum the relevant point is terrorist attacks using planes that is inspired by the religion and the holy texts of the religion/spirituality.
As far as religion inspired attacks using planes is concern, it is only Islam that is involved killing innocents passengers in planes where the ultimate root causes are traceable to verses in the Quran and Hadiths.

Btw, our concern is not only with killing of non-Muslims in planes but all sorts of evils and violence committed on non-Muslims as inspired by verses in the Quran and Hadiths.

Quote:
I do not want to minimize the atrocity of 9/11 but that was the only time Muslims have ever flown planes into buildings. It is not a common practice by Muslims and is not representative of Islam. Just as the other known 22 attacks by planes do not represent Christians, atheists or any other people.

It should also be noted that all of the known Muslim terrorists to date have been Salafi or followers of Wahhabi.
The acts of all Muslims who are terrorists and those who commit evils against non-Muslims can be traced to the verses of the Quran and Hadiths, and the life examples of Muhammad.

While it is not a common practice by the majority of Muslims, these evils acts are inspired by the holy texts and life examples of Islam. In fact the fundamentalists are the true Muslims and truer Islam because they comply [more than the moderates] with the terms and conditions of their covenant with Allah.

The term Salafi is a convenient term to represent a group of Muslims but it is not effective to describe the reality of the evil elements [in part] of Islam.
The very fact that the Quran contain a high quantum of evil laden elements provide the potential for any of the 1.5 billion Muslims to swing into the evil elements in their quest to be truer Muslim.
Per Normal Curve we approximate 20% of any group, in this case Muslims are evil prone.
Thus we have a potential pool of 300 million evil prone Muslims who are likely to take the full path to be truer Muslims based on truer Islam.

Therefore as long as Islam exists with the Quran as the core texts containing a high quantum of evil laden elements, Islam [IN PART] will always be a threat to humanity and the possibility of exterminating the human species.
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"Although the body count is very high, the actual number of Muslim attackers by plane is very low."

How many helpers did they have?

And I'm not forgetting all the Muslims that celebrated 9-11.

9-11 was horrific and does not compare to any other plane hijacking. Do not dare try to compare.

What is representative of Islam is deadly terrorist attacks in the name of allah and they go on EVERY SINGLE DAY. Since 9-11, there have been over 27,000 deadly terrorist attacks in the name of allah.

"It should also be noted that all of the known Muslim terrorists to date have been Salafi or followers of Wahhabi."

Even if this were true, the subgroups are actually irrelevant. They're all muslim. The factions are meaningless because the substance of islam is submission to Muhammed and allah who demand terrorism and hate and hell and endless torture for all disbelievers. Without researching, your claim seems obviously inaccurate. For example, Iranians are Shia, yet have sponsored and Iranian agents have carried out, terrorist attacks around the world.

I once challenged you to match my weekly list of DEADLY ISLAMIC terrorist attacks where I would list weekly Muslim terrorist attacks where people were slaughtered and you would list other terrorist attacks where people were slaughtered.

You declined. My offer stands.
Name one terrorist attack that was in the name of Allaah(swt).

Every terrorist attack I have read about the terrorists shouted "Allah Akbar" which can be translated as "God is Great" "God is Greater" or "God is the Greatest" depending upon the context. . I have never heard of a single terrorist shouting "Bismillah" (In the name of Allah) Or "Bismillah ir Rammen ir Raheem" (In the name of Allah the most gracious, the most merciful" Not once have I read that is what a terrorist shouted. Even the most deviant Muslim would not dare commit an atrocity in the name of Allaah(swt)

Quote:
You declined. My offer stands.
I declined because I refuse to be pushed into condemning others, as that does not prove anything. I have learned it is best to tell why I believe Islam is right, not why somebody else is wrong. To point out the sins of anyone, even non-Muslims does not accomplish anything except to turn me into a hate-Monger.
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Old 11-06-2015, 10:52 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
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"Every terrorist attack I have read about the terrorists shouted "Allah Akbar" which can be translated as "God is Great" "God is Greater" or "God is the Greatest" depending upon the context."

Are you joking? Screaming "Allah Akbar" while slaughtering people is certainly committing the terrorist attack in the name of allah. If someone detonated a suicide bomb in the midst of a crowd while screaming "Woodrow is the greatest" and accepting you as their god, I'd say that the act was done in your name. I bet you'd even tell them to cut it out!

"To point out the sins of anyone, even non-Muslims does not accomplish anything except to turn me into a hate-Monger."

Ah, the refusal to pass moral judgement. Although I believe that you did point out the sins of the 9-11 terrorist....but maybe I'm wrong and you remain morally neutral about that.

It is imperative that we judge good from evil and speak out against evil and for good. Guess which side wins when we won't. And passing judgement on moral issues does not turn people into 'hate mongers' if they praise good and condemn evil. The principle is: JUSTICE.

Continuum brought up a point that I have also mentioned. Muslims love to talk about non-Muslims and their hate mongering. Yet it is Islam that encourages violence and hate and terrorism and rape and slavery and mass slaughter. Those are the things that people like me are against. Yet Muslims say we are the haters. Doesn't it matter that what we 'hate' is rape and terrorism and slaughter and pedophilia and slavery and threats of endless torture in hellfire??? Should we accept, or even like these things?
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Old 11-07-2015, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Within the 7 billion of people there will always be attacks by all sort of people for various reasons. Obviously we need to condemn such attacks and take preventive actions.

However you are being deceptive here by straying from the main subject of this 'Religion & Spiritual' forum.
Within this forum the relevant point is terrorist attacks using planes that is inspired by the religion and the holy texts of the religion/spirituality.
As far as religion inspired attacks using planes is concern, it is only Islam that is involved killing innocents passengers in planes where the ultimate root causes are traceable to verses in the Quran and Hadiths.

Btw, our concern is not only with killing of non-Muslims in planes but all sorts of evils and violence committed on non-Muslims as inspired by verses in the Quran and Hadiths.

The acts of all Muslims who are terrorists and those who commit evils against non-Muslims can be traced to the verses of the Quran and Hadiths, and the life examples of Muhammad.

While it is not a common practice by the majority of Muslims, these evils acts are inspired by the holy texts and life examples of Islam. In fact the fundamentalists are the true Muslims and truer Islam because they comply [more than the moderates] with the terms and conditions of their covenant with Allah.

The term Salafi is a convenient term to represent a group of Muslims but it is not effective to describe the reality of the evil elements [in part] of Islam.
The very fact that the Quran contain a high quantum of evil laden elements provide the potential for any of the 1.5 billion Muslims to swing into the evil elements in their quest to be truer Muslim.
Per Normal Curve we approximate 20% of any group, in this case Muslims are evil prone.
Thus we have a potential pool of 300 million evil prone Muslims who are likely to take the full path to be truer Muslims based on truer Islam.

Therefore as long as Islam exists with the Quran as the core texts containing a high quantum of evil laden elements, Islam [IN PART] will always be a threat to humanity and the possibility of exterminating the human species.
Perhaps you can explain how the evil acts are predominantly by one particular group from one part of the world.

Islam is not a religion in the context of the English word religion. While there are some protocols a Muslim must adhere too, perfection is not required, what will be judged upon is our intention and abilities. There is no judgement for what we have no way of knowing or are incapable of understanding. there is no absolute minimun a person must do to achieve Heaven, it is very individual and based upon a personAL ability and knowledge. It is an individual action based not a group ritualistic behavior. There is no stadsrized central teaching. Each person learns from their own searching and is only responsible for that which they know and can do. If a person were to die immediately after learning they are Muslim, they will acheive the highest level of Heaven and all that goes with it. Even though they have not performed one Islamic action but have done 100% of all they had the ability and knowledge to do.
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Old 11-07-2015, 09:17 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
Reputation: 435
What I cannot understand is this: I have read the Quran and hadiths. I know what is in them. I know the context of the verses. It's like Muslims pretend what IS in the Quran and hadiths, isn't in them. But it is.

Which of these do you claim is not documented in the hadiths or Quran:

That Muhammed sold women?
That Muhammed's men mass raped captive women with allah's approval and Muhammed saying nothing to stop them, but telling them it does not matter if they ejaculate into the women?
That Muhammed had people slaughtered?
That Muhammed had sex with a 9 year old child?
That 'allah' promises unspeakable torture for disbelievers?
That Muhammed INITIATED violence against others.
That Muhammed owned slaves?

What do you think 'right hand possesses' means here:
"Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess:"

This is what we are reading in the Quran and hadiths. Also. we see verse after verse about how we will be endlessly tortured for not submitting to your allah, who gleefully threatens us relentlessly. How do you expect us to think?

I am a person who takes morality very seriously and rape, slaughter, torture, pedophilia, slavery....these things are very evil. Yet Islam's very prophet indulged in ALL these things. I've seen the verses first hand. It's not a translation or context issue. There are not dozens of verses of hate in the Quran, but hundreds!
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