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Old 11-07-2015, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
What I cannot understand is this: I have read the Quran and hadiths. I know what is in them. I know the context of the verses. It's like Muslims pretend what IS in the Quran and hadiths, isn't in them. But it is.

Which of these do you claim is not documented in the hadiths or Quran:

That Muhammed sold women?
That Muhammed's men mass raped captive women with allah's approval and Muhammed saying nothing to stop them, but telling them it does not matter if they ejaculate into the women?
That Muhammed had people slaughtered?
That Muhammed had sex with a 9 year old child?
That 'allah' promises unspeakable torture for disbelievers?
That Muhammed INITIATED violence against others.
That Muhammed owned slaves?

What do you think 'right hand possesses' means here:
"Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess:"

This is what we are reading in the Quran and hadiths. Also. we see verse after verse about how we will be endlessly tortured for not submitting to your allah, who gleefully threatens us relentlessly. How do you expect us to think?

I am a person who takes morality very seriously and rape, slaughter, torture, pedophilia, slavery....these things are very evil. Yet Islam's very prophet indulged in ALL these things. I've seen the verses first hand. It's not a translation or context issue. There are not dozens of verses of hate in the Quran, but hundreds!
Congratulations on being the first person to read all the Hadith. Most scholars in their lifetime have read no more than a few hundred of the million or so compilations. A full collection of Just the 2 Sunni Sahih collections usually takes 3 years for the average reader reading about and hour per day.. I have yet to find an English Translation of any of the Sahih collections that are complete.

Quote:
Which of these do you claim is not documented in the hadiths or Quran:

That Muhammed sold women?
That Muhammed's men mass raped captive women with allah's approval and Muhammed saying nothing to stop them, but telling them it does not matter if they ejaculate into the women?
That Muhammed had people slaughtered?
That Muhammed had sex with a 9 year old child?
That 'allah' promises unspeakable torture for disbelievers?
That Muhammed INITIATED violence against others.
That Muhammed owned slaves?
While it is true Muhammed did own slaves, he also bought them for the purpose of freeing them. He did not keep anyslaves. He freed any he had.

As to if Muhammad initiated any violence, I am certain did did attack those that were at war with the Muslims. Sadly initiating attacks against an enemy force is part of war.

As for Allaah(swt) promising unspeakable torture for disbelievers, we Muslims will also face the same tortures for our sins prior to entering Jannah. We all will pay for our transgressions, not just disbelievers. Yes the torture is severe. But we do not know how severe in the higher levels. some scholars even speculate that the highest level could be like life on earth. the only thing we do know is every person will be punished in accordance with his deeds and the punishments will be offset by the good they have done. No one will be punished beyond what they have earned and every person will be rewarded many times greater than what they earned.

Aisha was an exceptional woman. We really do not know her age. What we do know is she was intelligent, well educated, a proligic write, one of the First Islamic Scholars and acted of her own free will. She was engaged to another but Chose Muhammad after meeting him.

No where or at anytime did Muhammad have anyone slaughtered. The existing writings attributed to Ishaq are not reliable and are not Hadith or Sira.

The comment about ejaculating into women is really showing a lack of understanding of the Hadith. The hadith was an answer to a specific question.

Quote:
volume 3, Book 34, Number 432:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
that while he was sitting with Allah's Apostle he said, "O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interrupt us?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence.
Abu Said al-Khudri asked a specific question and he related What he remembered of the answer. More may have been said, those may not be the exact words.

Hadith are almost always a very small truncated portion of what was said. We only have what the witness remembered and may have passed on many years after the death of Muhammad(swt) We can not infer anything else except for what was said.

The Only thing we know is that Sahih Muslim came into possession of that Hadith and found reason to believe that is what Khudri had said.

As to if Muhammad(saws) sold Women, I have not seen any verification that he did. Perhaps you can offer proof that he did.
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Old 11-07-2015, 12:01 PM
 
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"While it is true Muhammed did own slaves, he also bought them for the purpose of freeing them. He did not keep anyslaves. He freed any he had."

Got any proof of that? Because I have evidence that you are wrong. This is the evidence that Muslims often produce:
'“Our Prophet (peace be upon him) never approved of slavery. He once purchased the life of a slave who came to him, liberating him from his master!”

Sounds good, but here is the context:
"There came a slave and pledged allegiance to Allah's Apostle on migration; he (the Prophet) did not know that he was a slave. Then there came his master and demanded him back, whereupon Allah's Apostle said: Sell him to me. And he bought him for two black slaves, and he did not afterwards take allegiance from anyone until he had asked him whether he was a slave (or a free man) (Sahih Muslim 3901).

Muhammad owned and traded African slaves. He didn't free them. He traded them into more slavery.

Let's keep looking:

Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah: A man decided that a slave of his would be manumitted after his death and later on he was in need of money, so the Prophet took the slave and said, "Who will buy this slave from me?" Nu'aim bin 'Abdullah bought him for such and such price and the Prophet gave him the slave.
— Sahih al-Bukhari, 3:34:351 see also Sahih al-Bukhari, 3:51:598 Sahih al-Bukhari, 8:79:707 Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:85:80 Sahih al-Bukhari, 3:51:588 Sahih al-Bukhari, 3:46:711 Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:89:296

More slave trading/selling, not freeing slaves.

Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle was on a journey and he had a black slave called Anjasha, and he was driving the camels (very fast, and there were women riding on those camels). Allah's Apostle said, "Waihaka (May Allah be merciful to you), O Anjasha! Drive slowly (the camels) with the glass vessels (women)!"
— Sahih al-Bukhari, 8:73:182 see also Sahih al-Bukhari, 8:73:229 Sahih al-Bukhari, 8:73:221

Humm, shouldn't Muhammed have said "What are you doing driving my camels...you are a free man!"

Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib: A slave-girl belonging to the house of the Apostle of Allah committed fornication. He (the Prophet) said: Rush up, Ali, and inflict the prescribed punishment on her. I then hurried up, and saw that blood was flowing from her, and did not stop. So I came to him and he said: Have you finished inflicting (punishment on her)? I said: I went to her while her blood was flowing. He said: Leave her alone till her bleeding stops; then inflict the prescribed punishment on her. And inflict the prescribed punishment on those whom your right hands possess (i.e. slaves).
— Sunan Abu Dawood, 38:4458

Hummm....no mention of freedom here!!

Narrated Kurib: the freed slave of Ibn 'Abbas, that Maimuna bint Al-Harith told him that she manumitted a slave-girl without taking the permission of the Prophet. On the day when it was her turn to be with the Prophet, she said, "Do you know, O Allah's Apostle, that I have manumitted my slave-girl?" He said, "Have you really?" She replied in the affirmative. He said, "You would have got more reward if you had given her (i.e. the slave-girl) to one of your maternal uncles."
— Sahih al-Bukhari, 3:47:765

Here Muhammed chastises someone for freeing a slave!

Qur'an (33:50) - "O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee"

Why would Muhammed/allah make slaves out of captive women after slaughtering their husbands, sons and fathers if he was against slavery?

Qur'an (23:5-6) - "..who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess..."

Qur'an (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess."

Yikes! Doesn't this mean that even married slaves can be screwed?

Anyways, I could go on and on.

The questions remains:

Do you claim that it is not documented in the hadiths or Quran that Muhammed owned (and traded) slaves?
What does "your right hands possess" mean?
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Old 11-07-2015, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Perhaps you can explain how the evil acts are predominantly by one particular group from one part of the world.
The above is like views expressed by a frog in tall silo.
There are evil and violent acts by Muslims in every part of the world where there is a large enough Muslim population. [This is so obvious I don't have to prove to you]
At present there are more evil and violent acts in the Middle-East and if they are successful in the Middle-East, the fundamentalists has promised to increase and add to the existing evil and violence in other parts of the world.


Quote:
Islam is not a religion in the context of the English word religion.
While there are some protocols a Muslim must adhere too, perfection is not required, what will be judged upon is our intention and abilities. There is no judgement for what we have no way of knowing or are incapable of understanding. there is no absolute minimun a person must do to achieve Heaven, it is very individual and based upon a personAL ability and knowledge. It is an individual action based not a group ritualistic behavior. There is no stadsrized central teaching. Each person learns from their own searching and is only responsible for that which they know and can do. If a person were to die immediately after learning they are Muslim, they will acheive the highest level of Heaven and all that goes with it. Even though they have not performed one Islamic action but have done 100% of all they had the ability and knowledge to do.
Answer to the above as posted in another thread.

Islam = Quran-MGA-610 is DEEN and comprise a religion aspect and a non-religious aspects.
The religious aspects [eschatological and soteriological] of Islam is plagiarized and not much difference from Judaism and Christianity.
The non-religious aspects of Islam is militaristic, evil, violent, autocratic, totalitarian and fascistic. This is the aspect of Islam that contribute to the evil and violence committed by SOME Muslims all over the world.

Islam is firstly a personal endeavor but Islam as per the Quran-MGA-610 insists Muslims help one another as a brotherhood within a Islamic community to defend Islam with their wealth and their lives.
Thus a Muslim could be rebuked by Allah on Judgment Day if they do not spend their wealth and put their life on the line to help their other Muslim brethren who are in need of assistance whilst being persecuted and oppressed in terms of their religion.
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Old 11-08-2015, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,282,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The above is like views expressed by a frog in tall silo.
There are evil and violent acts by Muslims in every part of the world where there is a large enough Muslim population. [This is so obvious I don't have to prove to you]
At present there are more evil and violent acts in the Middle-East and if they are successful in the Middle-East, the fundamentalists has promised to increase and add to the existing evil and violence in other parts of the world.



Answer to the above as posted in another thread.

Islam = Quran-MGA-610 is DEEN and comprise a religion aspect and a non-religious aspects.
The religious aspects [eschatological and soteriological] of Islam is plagiarized and not much difference from Judaism and Christianity.
The non-religious aspects of Islam is militaristic, evil, violent, autocratic, totalitarian and fascistic. This is the aspect of Islam that contribute to the evil and violence committed by SOME Muslims all over the world.

Islam is firstly a personal endeavor but Islam as per the Quran-MGA-610 insists Muslims help one another as a brotherhood within a Islamic community to defend Islam with their wealth and their lives.
Thus a Muslim could be rebuked by Allah on Judgment Day if they do not spend their wealth and put their life on the line to help their other Muslim brethren who are in need of assistance whilst being persecuted and oppressed in terms of their religion.
I doubt if you or I will ever agree upon a defintion of De'en

One thing in this post I will agree with

Quote:
Islam is firstly a personal endeavor but Islam as per the Quran-MGA-610 insists Muslims help one another as a brotherhood within a Islamic community to defend Islam with their wealth and their lives.
Thus a Muslim could be rebuked by Allah on Judgment Day if they do not spend their wealth and put their life on the line to help their other Muslim brethren who are in need of assistance whilst being persecuted and oppressed in terms of their religion
With the additional qualifier added. We are not to ask the religion of any person we help, as we do not know who is a Muslim. It is possible for a person to be a Muslim and not know it. One can perform Islam and not know they are. Also we have to assume that every non-Muslim has the possibility of becoming a Musli, therefore we should look upon every person as being a future Muslim, if they are not one today. Our Zakat (Charity) is not to be qualified by the religion of an individual. While it is true our first concern before giving charity should be our immediate neighbors and in some Nations they will be Muslims.
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Old 11-08-2015, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I doubt if you or I will ever agree upon a defintion of De'en
In your state, I do not expect you to agree with my definition of DEEN. This is after all only a discussion and each is entitle to their own views. So I am expressing mine which I make sure is supported by very extensive and deep research, and serious rational & critical thinking. You ? - what I can see of your views are soaked with psychological and emotional biasness without objectivity.

All humans being has generic systems which only differ in their forms.
What is intended to be DEEN in Islam is also generic in all humans in substance as Deana, Dharma, Tao, Holy Spirit, the Eternal Way in other religions and spirituality.

As I has always argued it is totally wrong to universalize the Forms.
What is proper is, only the substance and principles can be universalized or standardized.
The Forms must not be standardized but allow to flex with the varying conditions of reality.

All other religions universalize the 'Eternal Way' without its form as a standard.

The problem with Islam is the Quran has universalized the Forms of the Eternal Way as well.
The Quran has corrupted this generic concept in its own definition of 'DEEN' as a way-of-life [Form] that incorporated evil and violent elements, then made this corrupted definition immutable within a holy book.

It is because the Quran corrupted the concept of the universal DEEN by making its Forms immutable in a holy book that catalyze SOME Muslims to commit the terrible evils and violence upon humanity since Islam started till the present.


Quote:
One thing in this post I will agree with

With the additional qualifier added. We are not to ask the religion of any person we help, as we do not know who is a Muslim. It is possible for a person to be a Muslim and not know it. One can perform Islam and not know they are. Also we have to assume that every non-Muslim has the possibility of becoming a Musli, therefore we should look upon every person as being a future Muslim, if they are not one today. Our Zakat (Charity) is not to be qualified by the religion of an individual. While it is true our first concern before giving charity should be our immediate neighbors and in some Nations they will be Muslims.
This again is another of your personal view, which perhaps is a good human value but do not has any general resonance with Islam per se.

Per the Quran, the overriding weighted-general view of Islam is a Muslim MUST NOT help non-Muslims on a voluntarily basis. Muslims can only extend any concessions to a non-Muslims only if it favor them in some way or the other.
Any Muslims who are helping non-Muslims are doing it as a human being, against their religion and not in accordance to the dictates of the Quran-Islam.

Case study: Note the example how Allah do not permit Muslims to help non-Muslims pleading mercilessly for water while being scoured in Hell fire. Any Muslim who contravene Allah in helping non-Muslims may end up in Hell themselves.
7:50. And the dwellers of the Fire [infidels] cry out unto the dwellers of the Garden [Muslims]; Pour on us [infidels] some water or some of that where with Allah hath provided you [Muslims]. They [the Muslims] say: Lo! Allah hath forbidden both to disbelievers [infidels] (in His guidance),

The above is merely on example. There are many similar verses related to hell and elsewhere that culminated in a overriding weighted-general view of Islam where a Muslim MUST NOT help non-Muslims on a voluntarily basis unless Allah says so.
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Old 11-08-2015, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,282,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
In your state, I do not expect you to agree with my definition of DEEN. This is after all only a discussion and each is entitle to their own views. So I am expressing mine which I make sure is supported by very extensive and deep research, and serious rational & critical thinking. You ? - what I can see of your views are soaked with psychological and emotional biasness without objectivity.

All humans being has generic systems which only differ in their forms.
What is intended to be DEEN in Islam is also generic in all humans in substance as Deana, Dharma, Tao, Holy Spirit, the Eternal Way in other religions and spirituality.

As I has always argued it is totally wrong to universalize the Forms.
What is proper is, only the substance and principles can be universalized or standardized.
The Forms must not be standardized but allow to flex with the varying conditions of reality.

All other religions universalize the 'Eternal Way' without its form as a standard.

The problem with Islam is the Quran has universalized the Forms of the Eternal Way as well.
The Quran has corrupted this generic concept in its own definition of 'DEEN' as a way-of-life [Form] that incorporated evil and violent elements, then made this corrupted definition immutable within a holy book.

It is because the Quran corrupted the concept of the universal DEEN by making its Forms immutable in a holy book that catalyze SOME Muslims to commit the terrible evils and violence upon humanity since Islam started till the present.


This again is another of your personal view, which perhaps is a good human value but do not has any general resonance with Islam per se.

Per the Quran, the overriding weighted-general view of Islam is a Muslim MUST NOT help non-Muslims on a voluntarily basis. Muslims can only extend any concessions to a non-Muslims only if it favor them in some way or the other.
Any Muslims who are helping non-Muslims are doing it as a human being, against their religion and not in accordance to the dictates of the Quran-Islam.

Case study: Note the example how Allah do not permit Muslims to help non-Muslims pleading mercilessly for water while being scoured in Hell fire. Any Muslim who contravene Allah in helping non-Muslims may end up in Hell themselves.
7:50. And the dwellers of the Fire [infidels] cry out unto the dwellers of the Garden [Muslims]; Pour on us [infidels] some water or some of that where with Allah hath provided you [Muslims]. They [the Muslims] say: Lo! Allah hath forbidden both to disbelievers [infidels] (in His guidance),

The above is merely on example. There are many similar verses related to hell and elsewhere that culminated in a overriding weighted-general view of Islam where a Muslim MUST NOT help non-Muslims on a voluntarily basis unless Allah says so.
I am not the only one who will disagree with you on this, some examples

Misperception #1: Social service is not an Islamic obligation

Muslims regard helping the needy and the poor as good and rewarding acts but they do not consider them necessarily "an obligation" like prayers and fasting. It seems that many are not aware of the Quranic basis for the duty to serve human beings. There are scores of verses in the Quran that deal with the necessity of social service: 107; 74:38-46; 90:12-18; 89:17-24; 92:5-10. Of course the more prominent one is the short chapter Al Ma'oon in which Muslims are Divinely mandated to attend to the social needs of others, not as a philanthropic gesture, but as a prerequisite condition for faith (Iman) itself, and a tangible acceptance of the Hereafter. In al Ma'oon 107:1-7, Allah says:

"Have you ever seen a human being who contradicts the (essence of) faith? That is the person who pushes the orphan aside and does not promote feeding the needy."

Woe, then, unto those who pray, but their hearts and minds from (the essence and message of) their prayers are remote, those who (want but) to be seen and praised, whereas they refuse to help others (who need help)"

Muslim misperceptions about social services | SoundVision.com

Zakat, Can it Be Given to Non-Muslims?
Comments: 7

There are some Muslims who distinguish between Zakat and Sadaqa in such a way that they are able to claim that whereas Sadaqa can be given to any needy person, Zakat is only for Muslims. Their argument is neither based on Quran nor Hadith but on a very legalistic point of view—if not outright prejudice—that since non-Muslims do not have to contribute to the Zakat fund, they are not eligible to derive any benefit from it. Some of them, however, also claim that if no needy Muslim can be found, Zakat money may be given to non-Muslims.

Before going further, it would be helpful to define what these terms mean. “Zakat” literally means “to purify” but is used in the sense of “coming out clean after paying the rightful share that the needy have on one’s property.” Sadaqa denotes rightfulness but is generally applied to a very broad meaning of charity, which can include any donation or service to help others or for a good cause. Thus, according to one Hadith, saying kind words to help someone is also a “Sadaqa.”

According to almost all serious scholars of Islam, “Sadaqa” is another name for Zakat, but in ‘fiqa’ (Islamic jurisprudence), the term “Zakat” specifically refers to providing ‘monetary’ help to the needy which is obligatory on all Muslims. The correct way to interpret this is to say that Zakat is a type or sub-category of Sadaqa (charity), a percentage (minimum 2.5%) of one’s savings that must be paid to the poor and the needy by the end of the year.

The fact that Zakat is a form of Sadaqa can be proved from the Quran itself. Verse 9:60, which is often used to list the type of people who can receive Zakat, uses the very word “Sadaqa:”
https://controversialislam.wordpress...o-non-muslims/

A Shared Compulsion to Act

Muslims, Christians, Jews, and others all find clear language in their holy books and traditions that compel them to fight hunger and poverty.

For Muslims, this fight is fundamental to the faith; it is the essence of zakat, the third pillar. The importance of charity is underscored throughout the Quran (e.g., Surah 2, verse 110). This charity is not only directed toward fellow Muslims. The Quran (4: 36) calls believers to “do good – to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbors who are near, neighbors who are strangers, the Companion by your side…” Charity should be directed broadly, not limited to fellow Muslims. Recall that “If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues” (Quran 5:48).

This broader sense of community, and the individual’s responsibility toward those in need regardless of identity, suggest that Muslims should extend their hands across faith lines to collaborate in the struggle against hunger. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is commonly quoted as having said that “the person who sleeps full while his neighbor sleeps hungry is not a true believer.”
Interfaith Action On Hunger: A Shared Obligation

Worship God and associate nothing with Him, and treat with excellence your parents, and relatives, orphans, the needy, the near neighbor, the further neighbor, the companion at your side, the traveler, and the slaves” (4:36).

In this verse, two categories of neighbours have been specified – the near and the far. The scholars of Qur’anic exegesis have explained one of the meanings to be that the near neighbours are those with whom one shares kinship or faith, while other neighbours exist with whom one does not have a common faith or family ties. The Qur’an has explicitly mandated excellent conduct towards both. The Prophet Muhammad said, “The Angel Gabriel continued to inform me of the rights of the neighbours, until I though they would be assigned a portion of one’s inheritance!” (Sahih Bukhari).

The Prophet said, “The one who goes to sleep with a full stomach while his neighbour is hungry is not believer” (Sunan al-Bayhaqi). Whenever the companion Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-Aas would sacrifice a goat, he would send some of its meat to his Jewish neighbour, acting upon the Prophetic instruction to take care of one’s neighbours (Sunan al-Tirmidhi).

The Prophet Muhammad explained that humanitarian service towards Non-Muslims is a tenet of the Islamic faith. Central to Islamic ethics is the concept of sadaqah (charity) – giving to others on a daily basis.8 The Prophet Muhammad saws used to regularly donate money in charity to Jewish families, and he commanded his followers, “Donate in charity to people of all religions” (Musannaf ibn Abi Shaybah).
Harmony with Humanity – Islam and Non-Muslims | Spiritual Perception
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Old 11-08-2015, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I am not the only one who will disagree with you on this, some examples

Misperception #1: Social service is not an Islamic obligation

Muslims regard helping the needy and the poor as good and rewarding acts but they do not consider them necessarily "an obligation" like prayers and fasting. It seems that many are not aware of the Quranic basis for the duty to serve human beings. There are scores of verses in the Quran that deal with the necessity of social service: 107; 74:38-46; 90:12-18; 89:17-24; 92:5-10. Of course the more prominent one is the short chapter Al Ma'oon in which Muslims are Divinely mandated to attend to the social needs of others, not as a philanthropic gesture, but as a prerequisite condition for faith (Iman) itself, and a tangible acceptance of the Hereafter.
I am aware of the above verses and that is why I specifically qualify my point, i.e.
Per the Quran, the overriding weighted-general view of Islam is a Muslim MUST NOT help non-Muslims on a voluntarily basis.

The above verses, i.e. 107; 74:38-46, and others all belong the early Meccan verses which are very general.
However taking the whole of the Quran in context, the overriding weighted-general view is a Muslim has to be adverse and contemptuous toward non-Muslims.
2:98. Who is an enemy to Allah, and His angels and His messengers, and Gabriel and Michael! Then, lo! Allah (Him- self) is an enemy to the disbelievers [infidels].

Therefore a Muslim cannot simply follow the commands of 107; 74:38-46, and others to help any orphans, needy, the wretched, the poor and the likes. A Muslim must thus pause and discern whether the orphans, needy, the poor are infidels or not before the Muslim can extend any financial assistance to them.

There is no doubt there are 'Muslims' who help non-Muslims [infidels, kafir, kafara] but they are doing it in accordance to their personal/private human empathy and compassion and not because of the overriding weighted-general dictates of the Quran as a Muslim per se.
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Old 11-09-2015, 03:58 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,282,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I am aware of the above verses and that is why I specifically qualify my point, i.e.
Per the Quran, the overriding weighted-general view of Islam is a Muslim MUST NOT help non-Muslims on a voluntarily basis.

The above verses, i.e. 107; 74:38-46, and others all belong the early Meccan verses which are very general.
However taking the whole of the Quran in context, the overriding weighted-general view is a Muslim has to be adverse and contemptuous toward non-Muslims.
2:98. Who is an enemy to Allah, and His angels and His messengers, and Gabriel and Michael! Then, lo! Allah (Him- self) is an enemy to the disbelievers [infidels].

Therefore a Muslim cannot simply follow the commands of 107; 74:38-46, and others to help any orphans, needy, the wretched, the poor and the likes. A Muslim must thus pause and discern whether the orphans, needy, the poor are infidels or not before the Muslim can extend any financial assistance to them.

There is no doubt there are 'Muslims' who help non-Muslims [infidels, kafir, kafara] but they are doing it in accordance to their personal/private human empathy and compassion and not because of the overriding weighted-general dictates of the Quran as a Muslim per se.
One does need to look at the entire Qur'an and not believe the hate sites that the Medinah Surat abrogated the Meccan. Also very few if any of the meccan Surat are fully Meccan. The Surah are classified Meccanand Medinah by the date of the first ayyat in each, which may not always have been the first revealed. Best example being surah 2 in which the very last ayyat was the first one revealed.

Most of the Surat are actually a mixture of Mecca and Medina Many of the anti-Islamic sites misunderstand or deliberatly give the wrong impression of abrogation. Abbrogation in the Qur'an did not mean any surah has become invalid. Much of the Qur'an can be seen as successive appoximations until complition. It is also necessaryto understand the Qur'an does not teach how to perform Islam. It is the reason, not the how..
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Old 11-16-2015, 03:54 AM
 
Location: quiet place
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Islam is a direct connection between a human and its creator

a relation between a very weak and miserable creature like me, you and very lovely and caring God

Islam is a contract between Allah and those who believe in him and in his messengers (Noa, Idris,Ibraham, David, Solomon, Moses,Aron, Jesus, Mohammad )and all the other prophets peace be upon them. this agreement works for your interest and protect you form worshipping false Gods.

thank you
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Old 11-16-2015, 09:51 AM
 
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Would I be required to kill innocent people?
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