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Old 11-09-2015, 12:00 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 754,734 times
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"Unfortunately, the term 'American citizen' seems to mean very little anymore."

It does to me, but unfortunately Muslims don't seem to grasp it. To be an 'American citizen' means to understand and respect the individual rights of others, be responsible for yourselves.

I've asked over 2,000 Muslims to explain the concept of 'individual rights'. Not one could and many of them were American citizens.

The majority of Muslims want Shariah Law enforced....and that wipes out individual rights and freedom.

"And the African American population is centered around enclaves based on their ethnicity. The Sino-American community (who, let's not forget, came here to help build America and were treated like absolute garbage in the process; thank Chester A. Arthur for introducing the Chinese Exclusion Act), the Jewish population.

Oh, but that doesn't matter, does it?"

To what degree this is true, it is a shame and it does matter and I think that they should assimilate, which is happening if you take a look around. Racism is totally evil (I doubt you really understand why). And be aware that racism includes both hating based on race and loving based on race. No race is superior or deserving of 'special rights'.

Of course Islam is NOT a race. It is an ideology and Muslims should be judged on the ideology they choose to follow. I would judge devout followers of Hitler to be evil, and Muhammed certainly competed with Hitler in the evil category. Rape, slaughter, hate, terrorism, genocide, pedophilia, theft slavery, selling women....what didn't Muhammed do that is evil?? Do you think the followers of such an ideology come to free countries to support individual rights?

"The rights that protect you are far too important to allow anyone else to embrace them."

Really? Explain that. What rights do I have that I refuse to allow others to embrace?

"'Freedom and justice for all'. Well...almost all, anyway. Just the ones we decide we like."

Just the ones who hold an ideology that respects individual rights and freedom. Not ones who believe in slaughtering gays and jews, supporting or acting out terrorism, having sex with children, beating their wives, not gangs who mass rape women like Muhammed and his gang did, not ones who enter a country demanding money and rioting and raping women and spewing hatred and Shariah law.

Look at Europe.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfK6qJFWAEY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=889stdvcD40


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75aLYqRFq9I


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3Th6h5jX8g


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thXCb1VUBDg

THIS:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3cBUgdhE60
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Old 11-09-2015, 12:24 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,371 posts, read 1,507,603 times
Reputation: 3870
Ironic that the things that make the West desirable, (no less for Muslims) democracy, stability, tolerance, freedom, secularism, creativity (what after all has Islam done lately?) would be subverted by those - many of whom, wouldn't live anywhere else.
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Old 11-09-2015, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
1,808 posts, read 1,591,962 times
Reputation: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Rape, slaughter, hate, terrorism, genocide, pedophilia, theft slavery, selling women....what didn't Muhammed do that is evil?? Do you think the followers of such an ideology come to free countries to support individual rights?
And here we are, with the wholesale whitewashing of American history.

Slavery -- an established fact of early American history. Distasteful and utterly barbaric, of course, but still...

Hateful ideology: what in the world do you think you're spreading? It ain't hugs and puppies, that's for sure.

Genocide: The US even has an entire museum so we don't forget our responsibility for participating in such atrocity.

Selling women: See 'slavery', above. Oh, wait, I forgot -- women weren't even considered people under US law until about a hundred years ago. My bad.

Oh, and don't forget that this entire continent was colonized by white Europeans, against the wishes of the people that already lived here -- and we're still trying to find the words to apologize for what we did when we got here.

As far as I'm concerned, until you can acknowledge your own country's racist, genocidal, imperialist history, your arguments have no weight.
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Old 11-09-2015, 04:58 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 754,734 times
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"And here we are, with the wholesale whitewashing of American history."

Not at all, but I do have great respect for individual rights. Here's the rub, I can say that ANYONE who owns and trades slaves, sells humans....is evil. I don't care who they are, what their race is, where they come from or when in history they did it. Slavery is wrong and those who take others as slaves are evil. Period. But after speaking to over 2,500 Muslims, not ONE of them would say that Muhammed was evil to own, trade and have sex with his slaves. Not one. In fact, Muslims refused to judge ANY of Muhammed's evil actions. Sex with a child? No problem. Let his men mass rape captive women? No problem. Slaughter? No problem. Rape women? OK by them.

"Slavery -- an established fact of early American history. Distasteful and utterly barbaric, of course, but still..."

But still, this is the Islamic forum, so let's discuss that. It's far worse than the evil that happened here. Muhammed owned and traded slaves. He took captive women as slaves and gave them out like party favors after he and his men raped them....of course this was right after slaughtering or capture of their husbands. Islam allows the taking of slaves as "booty", or reward for fighting.
33:50 - "Prophet, We have made lawful to you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave girls whom God has given you as booty." Allah likes slavery and even gives Muhammed and his gang permission to take women as booty!
The Apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives.
Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)

"Then the apostle sent Sa-d b. Zayd al-Ansari, brother of Abdu'l-Ashal with some of the captive women of Banu Qurayza to Najd and he sold them for horses and weapons." (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham/Hisham 693)

Muhammed's perfect example to Muslims opened the door to this:
Thomas Sowell [Thomas Sowell, Race and Culture, BasicBooks, 1994, p. 188] estimates that 11 million slaves were shipped across the Atlantic and 14 million were sent to the Islamic nations of North Africa and the Middle East. For every slave captured, many others died. Dr. John Alembellah Azumah in his 2001 book, The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa estimates that over 80 million Black people more died en route.

Now, you can point to slavery in early America, but evil never ever excuses evil. And your logical fallacy is tu quoque.

"Hateful ideology: what in the world do you think you're spreading? It ain't hugs and puppies, that's for sure."

Nope, it's not hugs and puppies, it's something far more serious. It is judgement. I am judging against rape, pedophilia, terrorism, slaughter, slavery....and if you want to call that hate, go ahead. I am proud to 'hate' these things while Muslims embrace them.

"Genocide: The US even has an entire museum so we don't forget our responsibility for participating in such atrocity."

Tu quoque. And this is the forum to discuss Islam.

"Selling women: See 'slavery', above. Oh, wait, I forgot -- women weren't even considered people under US law until about a hundred years ago. My bad."

Tu quoque. And this is the forum to discuss Islam. I don't think that rape and murder and torture of women was allowed then, like it was under Muhammed. If it was, then that was certainly evil.

Can you say that Muhammed was evil to sell and enslave women? Can you say that Muhammed was evil to rape a little 4th grader? Can you say that Allah was evil to encourage the mass rape of captive women in front of their husbands? Can you say that Muhammed was evil to demand slaughter and terrorism and hate and genocide?

"Oh, and don't forget that this entire continent was colonized by white Europeans, against the wishes of the people that already lived here -- and we're still trying to find the words to apologize for what we did when we got here."

Tu quoque. And this is the forum to discuss Islam.

"As far as I'm concerned, until you can acknowledge your own country's racist, genocidal, imperialist history, your arguments have no weight."

I acknowledge all evil.....but I do it in the proper forum.

And then we have what Islam is doing today. The terrorism. The Muslim gangs immigrating and mass raping girls. (Sound familiar??) The child brides and dancing boys in Afghanistan. The rioting and the human rights abuses. Slaughtering non-Muslims. The more than 27,000 Islamic terrorist attacks since 9-11...attacks where people were slaughtered. Muslims slaughtering Muslims....over 10 MILLION Muslims slaughtered by other Muslims since 1946. Etc.

Seriously, any moral person is fed up.

Last edited by juju33312; 11-09-2015 at 05:12 PM..
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Old 11-09-2015, 06:14 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,371 posts, read 1,507,603 times
Reputation: 3870
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredNotBob View Post
And here we are, with the wholesale whitewashing of American history.

Slavery -- an established fact of early American history. Distasteful and utterly barbaric, of course, but still...

Hateful ideology: what in the world do you think you're spreading? It ain't hugs and puppies, that's for sure.

Genocide: The US even has an entire museum so we don't forget our responsibility for participating in such atrocity.

Selling women: See 'slavery', above. Oh, wait, I forgot -- women weren't even considered people under US law until about a hundred years ago. My bad.

Oh, and don't forget that this entire continent was colonized by white Europeans, against the wishes of the people that already lived here -- and we're still trying to find the words to apologize for what we did when we got here.

As far as I'm concerned, until you can acknowledge your own country's racist, genocidal, imperialist history, your arguments have no weight.
Too wrongs - besides different topic. The main difference in Western culture - be it American, European or whatever, there's latitude for self-invective, criticism - Islam has no such capacity.
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Old 11-09-2015, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
1,808 posts, read 1,591,962 times
Reputation: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by modernist1 View Post
Too wrongs - besides different topic. The main difference in Western culture - be it American, European or whatever, there's latitude for self-invective, criticism - Islam has no such capacity.
Not a different topic at all.

What right do we have to demonize others for sins that we, ourselves, have committed?

Why are we somehow immune to criticism for our own nasty past, while we so angrily scream and shout about the offenses others perpetrate?

'Caesar can do no wrong', isn't that the phrase?

More to the point: why are we actively spitting on the values that America claims to embody?

'Liberty and justice for all' -- a phrase that now seems to mean nothing if you're not willing to 'fall in line' and perpetrate a culture of fear and suspicion.

I'm done. Even if I'm the only person that stands up and says 'this is wrong', at least I'll be one voice that hasn't yet mutated into a paranoid monster.
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Old 11-09-2015, 08:43 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 754,734 times
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"What right do we have to demonize others for sins that we, ourselves, have committed? "

I've done none of these things. I do not hold an ideology that promotes evil. I am moral.
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Old 11-12-2015, 01:31 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,371 posts, read 1,507,603 times
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As far as any possible objective view goes ... events like the below - apparently in the name of Islam don't do the religion any favors. In fact I think it's fair to say, that if you asked most people (Muslims included), which religion they associated most with suicide bombings - they'd give the same categorical answer.

Beirut suicide bombings kill at least 37 - CNN.com
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Old 11-14-2015, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,590,726 times
Reputation: 461
Here is one good reason why Islam is dangerous to the USA.

Quote:
Christians around the world have faced persecution in recent years. While it is most
severe in places like Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Nigeria, and Sudan, it occurs in other places as well.
Like Dearborn, Michigan.


Dearborn formerly hosted an annual Arab International Festival. In 2010 and
2012, Christian missionaries were arrested or threatened with sanctions while proselytizing festival attendees.


The missionaries were acquitted of breaching the peace (although Mayel was found guilty of failing to obey a police order).
Wood, Qureshi, and Rezkalla then sued Dearborn for violating their civil rights. In 2013
the city settled the case, removed the mayor’s letter from its website and posting an apology in its stead, and paid the evangelists $300,000.

...
And why did police not arrest the rock-throwers?
As Judge Boggs suggested in his concurrence, Dearborn’s population and the
history of incidents at the festival suggest that the region’s Arab community
is, functionally, the “majority” community, and it seems intolerant of
“minority” views. Hopefully, the Sixth Circuit’s opinion will remind it that the
First Amendment protects the majority and the minority, Christians, Muslims,
Jews, and others, in Dearborn and throughout the country.


Proselytizing Christians have a right to demonstrate at Muslim festival. | PJ Media
The general trait is as the Muslim population grow they will creepingly demand others conform to their ONLY ways as a compulsion to comply with their covenant with Allah as stipulated in the Quran.
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Old 11-28-2015, 02:10 AM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
1,808 posts, read 1,591,962 times
Reputation: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Here is one good reason why Islam is dangerous to the USA.

The general trait is as the Muslim population grow they will creepingly demand others conform to their ONLY ways as a compulsion to comply with their covenant with Allah as stipulated in the Quran.
Quote:
Members from the Christian evangelist group Acts 17 Apologetics, who were holding anti-Muslim signs, posted a YouTube video in 2009 that showed Dearborn Police escorting them out of the festival after they had gotten into confrontations with other attendees.
Quote:
The following year, that same group returned to the festival, and three of its members were arrested by Dearborn Police and charged with breaching the peace.
-- Arab International Festival cancelled for second year in a row

I'd like to know how you'd react to repeated provocation. Perhaps you also missed the part where the Christian 'visitors' carried a severed pig's head on a stick?

The Christian missionaries inserted themselves into a sensitive situation, knowing that their behavior would be inflammatory, and deliberately carried material they knew would be offensive. In my opinion, they shouldn't have been let off so lightly; that being said, I'm not a lawyer and they were given a fair hearing before the courts, which is their right.

Let me ask the Christians here: were the situation reversed, would you react favorably to someone showing up at a church with an effigy of Christ's head on a stick? Or carrying signs calling Christ (for example) a 'doped-up flower child'?

I see no indication that anyone at that festival demanded that anyone 'conform to their ONLY ways'. I saw, instead, that the affected parties went to the courts to seek reparation (which is hardly 'dangerous to the USA').
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