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Old 11-11-2015, 11:07 AM
 
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When are Muslims going to let their sisters, wives and daughters wear what they want and do what they want? When will you allow your women to sleep with as many men as they wish without threatening to kill them?
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Old 11-11-2015, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by EuropeanAnna View Post
When are Muslims going to let their sisters, wives and daughters wear what they want and do what they want? When will you allow your women to sleep with as many men as they wish without threatening to kill them?
As far as letting women wear what they desire. It is actually forbidden for a man to force a woman to wear what she does not wish to wear. Do not think the practices of some countries are representaive of Islam. No Nation of individual represents Islam. They only represent themself.

Yes, it is Sunnah for both men and women to dress modestly, but it should also be by the individuals own choice and desire.

Yes, honor killings for women engaging in sex outside of marriage is a problem in some countries notably Pakistan and India and almost exclusively among Punjab, not just Muslim Punjab but aslo among Christian, Sikh and Hindu Punjab. Also among a related people the Pashtun of Afghanistan.

But it has nothing to do with them being Muslim, they are going against Islam
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Old 11-11-2015, 02:18 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
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"As far as letting women wear what they desire. It is actually forbidden for a man to force a woman to wear what she does not wish to wear."

Where? What I see is this:

"And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons, their sisters' sons, their women, that which their right hands possess, or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed." Quran 24:31

O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever OftForgiving, Most Merciful." Quran 33:59

So allah is telling men what to make women wear, and if the women disobey, they should be beaten.

Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Real nice.

"Yes, honor killings for women engaging in sex outside of marriage is a problem in some countries notably Pakistan and India and almost exclusively among Punjab, not just Muslim Punjab but aslo among Christian, Sikh and Hindu Punjab. Also among a related people the Pashtun of Afghanistan.

But it has nothing to do with them being Muslim, they are going against Islam


Really? Then why does the Quran say this:

"The woman and the man guilty of illegal sexual intercourse, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment." (This punishment is for unmarried persons guilty of the above crime but if married persons commit it, the punishment is to stone them to death, according to Allah's Law)."

That last sentence is from the translator, not me.

So two unmarried persons having consensual sex should be lashed 100 times. Muhammed screwed a little 4th grader, raped captive women, owned and had sex with his slave girls. THAT was OK, though.

This is what lashing is:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP8uB9abAhE

This is what allah likes.
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Old 11-11-2015, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
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Originally Posted by EuropeanAnna View Post
When are Muslims going to let their sisters, wives and daughters wear what they want and do what they want? When will you allow your women to sleep with as many men as they wish without threatening to kill them?
1. To be a Muslim one has to enter into a covenant [religious agreement/contract] with Allah.
2. The terms and conditions of the covenant are stipulated within the 6,236 verses of the Quran-MGA-610 and no where else.
3. The Quran is the words of the infallible supreme most Allah and is immutable.
4. Therefore for one to be a 'good' [as contracted] Muslim, one must comply with all the terms and conditions in the Quran-MGA-610 as much as possible otherwise one could end up in HELL.

What drives Muslims to be misogynistic are primarily these verses as a term of the covenant; [mine]
20:123. He said: Go down hence, both [Adam & Eve] of you, one of you a foe unto the other.

2:223. [O ye Muslims] Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad).
The above is followed by many other misogynistic verses [some examples given by juju33312] that are misogynistic and sexist against women.

When?
There is no 'when' for Muslim men to change their misogynistic attitude towards women if they are to be good Muslims because sexism is part and parcel of the covenant a Muslim contracted with Allah. Thus there is no way for a pious Muslim to go against the words of Allah. Therefore as long as there is Islam, Muslim women will always get the unfair end of the stick.

Any Muslim who is not-a-sexist is not doing it as a Muslim per se but rather is compromising his religion by applying the basic human value of equality to all humans. By compromising these Muslims who are a bit more humane risk losing merit points due to their non-compliance with the terms of the covenant. This is the reason why women are so badly viewed and treated by many zealous men who selfishly want to gain religious 'brownie points' at the expense of the other sex. Besides what wrong if God sanction such misogynistic ordinations.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:32 PM
 
4,409 posts, read 1,639,451 times
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Originally Posted by EuropeanAnna View Post
When are Muslims going to let their sisters, wives and daughters wear what they want and do what they want? When will you allow your women to sleep with as many men as they wish without threatening to kill them?
You should talk about this to a non-Muslim female who actually used her intelligence and did a thorough research to pierce thru the fog and get to the core to know the truth, and then embrace the truth by converting to Islam.

There are quite a few videos on you tube where you can contact such females and discuss if you can't find any in your local community.
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Old 11-11-2015, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
You should talk about this to a non-Muslim female who actually used her intelligence and did a thorough research to pierce thru the fog and get to the core to know the truth, and then embrace the truth by converting to Islam.

There are quite a few videos on you tube where you can contact such females and discuss if you can't find any in your local community.
Not sure if you are familiar with the Principles of the Normal Curve.

For any human variables within a large group there is a normal distribution pattern.
For example height, there will be 10% of adult humans in the World say below 3.5 feet and 10% above 7 feet. The average which is about 66% will have a height of 5 feet. The height I used is approximate but the pattern is standard.
You can use this for any human variable [physical or mental] on large groups of humans and it will be repeatable with some exception of skewness.

Therefore if you use the normal curve on the acceptance of misogyny by Muslim women you will definitely find a small percentile of them agreeing with it under various circumstances.
There are 1.5 billion Muslims and if 50% are female, that is 750 million.

Now if only 10% of Muslim are agreeable with misogyny that is 75 millions which is a big number.
That [the few in Youtube and elsewhere] non-Muslim female whom you recommended above could be merely 10% who favor misogyny for their own psychological reasons, what about the other silent 90% of Muslim women who do not agree with misogyny which is often accompanied all sorts of abuses [physical and mental].

The point is in our modern era, there is no place for misogyny as humanity move forward and progress with greater human values of basic equality in the near future.
The problem is the ordinations in the Quran [words of Allah] related to misogyny are immutable and eternal and thus will not flex and cannot cope with real changes in reality.
Therefore Islam, with its immutable misogynistic and other negative ordinations, cannot be an effective religion for the future.
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Old 11-11-2015, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Texas
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Pretty much every religion puts the woman under the dominion of the man.
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Old 11-11-2015, 11:07 PM
 
4,409 posts, read 1,639,451 times
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Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Not sure if you are familiar with the Principles of the Normal Curve.

For any human variables within a large group there is a normal distribution pattern.
For example height, there will be 10% of adult humans in the World say below 3.5 feet and 10% above 7 feet. The average which is about 66% will have a height of 5 feet. The height I used is approximate but the pattern is standard.
You can use this for any human variable [physical or mental] on large groups of humans and it will be repeatable with some exception of skewness.

Therefore if you use the normal curve on the acceptance of misogyny by Muslim women you will definitely find a small percentile of them agreeing with it under various circumstances.
There are 1.5 billion Muslims and if 50% are female, that is 750 million.

Now if only 10% of Muslim are agreeable with misogyny that is 75 millions which is a big number.
That [the few in Youtube and elsewhere] non-Muslim female whom you recommended above could be merely 10% who favor misogyny for their own psychological reasons, what about the other silent 90% of Muslim women who do not agree with misogyny which is often accompanied all sorts of abuses [physical and mental].

The point is in our modern era, there is no place for misogyny as humanity move forward and progress with greater human values of basic equality in the near future.
The problem is the ordinations in the Quran [words of Allah] related to misogyny are immutable and eternal and thus will not flex and cannot cope with real changes in reality.
Therefore Islam, with its immutable misogynistic and other negative ordinations, cannot be an effective religion for the future.
Again, thanks for your concern about Muslim women.

Now, use the oracle of the same normal curve, and see what kind of abuse and misogyny occurs against women in your faith or in your country or in a society that your live in, and worry about them. Fix your own house first.
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Old 11-12-2015, 01:01 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
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Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Again, thanks for your concern about Muslim women.

Now, use the oracle of the same normal curve, and see what kind of abuse and misogyny occurs against women in your faith or in your country or in a society that your live in, and worry about them. Fix your own house first.
Note this is a discussion forum thus anyone can contribute their views within the rules of the forum.
You are not following forum protocols by trying to push the discussion off topic and the OP [re Islam].

No faith issues for me.
As for secular matters, I understand women were not given equal share in the past but the situations are changing in world at present as there are no immutable laws fixed by God like the following;
20:123. He said: Go down hence, both [Adam & Eve] of you, one of you a foe unto the other.

2:223. [O ye Muslims] Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad).
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Old 11-12-2015, 02:19 AM
 
Location: in here, out there
3,064 posts, read 5,595,835 times
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Never.
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