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Old 12-22-2015, 01:38 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
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Surely the very ambiguity - the same of the Bible is the problem. Grown people spend hours debating nonsense in the 21st century.
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Old 12-22-2015, 01:48 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
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A group of Kenyan Muslims shielded the Christian passengers and told the attackers they were prepared to die together. The Muslim passengers, who were mostly women, told the Islamic militants to kill them all or leave them alone, witnesses said.


Heroes in ACTION
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Old 12-22-2015, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by int007 View Post
No you misunderstood it.

All we have to do is read the verse a bit more carefully..

Quran 3:118 : O ye who believe! take not to intimacy with others than yourselves; they will not fail to spoil you; they would fain ye came to trouble,- hatred is shown by their mouths; but what their breasts conceal is greater still. We have made manifest to you our signs, did ye but understand.

The verse is clearly talking about the hypocrites who would want harm to come to us and would want to spoil us. Therefore, we should avoid these people (there is a thing called common sense).
I agree the 80% of Muslims might twist to avoid the nasty bits.


However there are 20% of Muslims who naturally has high evil tendencies due to their DNA or neural structures [Note Normal Distribution].
Quran 3:118 : O ye who believe! take not to intimacy with others than yourselves;..
It is correct to interpret 'others than yourselves' as referring to 'non-Muslims', otherwise Allah as omniscient would have stated specifically 'hypocrites,' which is mentioned many times in the Quran where relevant.


It fits into the whole contexts of the Quran which differentiate non-Muslims and dehumanized them with the worst condemnations, i.e. as apes, swines, cattle, asses, worst creatures. In addition, there are many verses that exhort Muslims not to be 'awliyaa' [allies, protector, guardians, etc.] with non-Muslims.
This whole load of negatives against non-Muslims [kuffar] lend support to 3:118 as not to be intimate with non-Muslims.


Point is WHO ARE YOU [me and others] as fallible humans to judge Allah's words using common sense [the worst basis to judge].


This is why the Muslims of ISIS and other of the likes do not take non-Muslims as friends, allies and kill them wherever they find non-Muslims.
Actually it is wrong to blame the Muslims [most] who are terrorist and those who commit evils because they are merely complying with what the Quran dictated in order to ensure their passage to eternal life and avoiding Hell.
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Old 12-23-2015, 09:39 AM
 
88 posts, read 35,008 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I agree the 80% of Muslims might twist to avoid the nasty bits.


However there are 20% of Muslims who naturally has high evil tendencies due to their DNA or neural structures [Note Normal Distribution].
Quran 3:118 : O ye who believe! take not to intimacy with others than yourselves;..
It is correct to interpret 'others than yourselves' as referring to 'non-Muslims', otherwise Allah as omniscient would have stated specifically 'hypocrites,' which is mentioned many times in the Quran where relevant.


It fits into the whole contexts of the Quran which differentiate non-Muslims and dehumanized them with the worst condemnations, i.e. as apes, swines, cattle, asses, worst creatures. In addition, there are many verses that exhort Muslims not to be 'awliyaa' [allies, protector, guardians, etc.] with non-Muslims.
This whole load of negatives against non-Muslims [kuffar] lend support to 3:118 as not to be intimate with non-Muslims.


Point is WHO ARE YOU [me and others] as fallible humans to judge Allah's words using common sense [the worst basis to judge].


This is why the Muslims of ISIS and other of the likes do not take non-Muslims as friends, allies and kill them wherever they find non-Muslims.
Actually it is wrong to blame the Muslims [most] who are terrorist and those who commit evils because they are merely complying with what the Quran dictated in order to ensure their passage to eternal life and avoiding Hell.
I already gave the answer to your post and its crystal clear to any unbiased person which is at post#88 so Your statements mean nothing and just words without proof or your imaginations. You can believe whatever you want but you cannot prove it.

If ISIS is doing all that evil then you and ISIS are on the same page and majority of Muslims disagreed with both of you in the light of Quran and Hadiths.
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Old 12-23-2015, 11:37 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by int007 View Post
I already gave the answer to your post and its crystal clear to any unbiased person which is at post#88 so Your statements mean nothing and just words without proof or your imaginations. You can believe whatever you want but you cannot prove it.

If ISIS is doing all that evil then you and ISIS are on the same page and majority of Muslims disagreed with both of you in the light of Quran and Hadiths.
It is not whether I believe it or not. Regardless I will be burnt in Hell eternally with the worst sufferings since I am a Kuffar from Allah's POV.
It is Allah who reserved the most vile 'hatred' [abhorrence] for me as a kuffar for merely not believing in his [SOME] vile ideas.

40:10. Lo! (on that day) those [infidels] who disbelieve are informed by proclamation: Verily Allah's abhorrence is more terrible than your abhorrence one of another, when ye [infidels] were called unto the faith but did refuse.


34:45. Those [of old] before them [Quraish infidels] denied, and these have not attained a tithe of that which We bestowed on them (of old); yet they [Quraish infidels] denied My messengers. How intense then was My abhorrence (of them)!
Note how Allah sowed the worst intense 'hatred' [abhorrence] in principle for the kuffar.
The irony is, yet when the kuffar critique this and other violence they are accused on spreading 'hatred' and being 'islamophobic' [an intellectually bankrupt term].
It is the same with those non-Nazis who critiqued and condemned the Mein Kampf as evil but the Nazi accused the non-Nazis of spreading hatred for the Nazis and Germany then.



As a matter of objectivity, the Muslims of ISIS, other jihadist groups and millions of other Muslims who agree with 3:118 take it as the truth from Allah and comply with Allah words, i.e. do not take non-Muslims [kuffar] as intimate friends.
The point it there is nothing you and other moderate Muslims can do anything about it.
Meanwhile the Muslims of ISIS and the likes are not befriending the kuffar but treat them as enemies and a threat which as such can be killed without incurring any sin on their part.
Since they comply with Allah's expectations they will gain merit points in their Illiyin.


The other point is you as a Muslim has entered into a covenant with Allah. Thus you have to comply with the expectations of Allah at stipulated in the Quran. The fact that you are befriending the Kuffar [if you have done so] you may be penalized with demerits points as recorded in the book [sijjirin or illiyin] which may delay your passage to paradise.

Last edited by Continuum; 12-23-2015 at 11:46 PM..
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Old 12-24-2015, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I agree the 80% of Muslims might twist to avoid the nasty bits.


However there are 20% of Muslims who naturally has high evil tendencies due to their DNA or neural structures [Note Normal Distribution].
Quran 3:118 : O ye who believe! take not to intimacy with others than yourselves;..
It is correct to interpret 'others than yourselves' as referring to 'non-Muslims', otherwise Allah as omniscient would have stated specifically 'hypocrites,' which is mentioned many times in the Quran where relevant.


It fits into the whole contexts of the Quran which differentiate non-Muslims and dehumanized them with the worst condemnations, i.e. as apes, swines, cattle, asses, worst creatures. In addition, there are many verses that exhort Muslims not to be 'awliyaa' [allies, protector, guardians, etc.] with non-Muslims.
This whole load of negatives against non-Muslims [kuffar] lend support to 3:118 as not to be intimate with non-Muslims.


Point is WHO ARE YOU [me and others] as fallible humans to judge Allah's words using common sense [the worst basis to judge].


This is why the Muslims of ISIS and other of the likes do not take non-Muslims as friends, allies and kill them wherever they find non-Muslims.
Actually it is wrong to blame the Muslims [most] who are terrorist and those who commit evils because they are merely complying with what the Quran dictated in order to ensure their passage to eternal life and avoiding Hell.
This post triggered a few thoughts.

When you look at the number of Muslim that twist the Qur'an to find justification for violence, they seem to be a very small percentage and nearly all are adherents of Wahhabi/Salafi. Wahhabi make up less than 1% of the world's Muslims yet are responsible for virtually all acts of violence by Muslims.

The vast majority of Muslims, do not believe the Qur'an justifies aggression. I have not seen any actual studies, but But I am convinced that a much lower percentage of Muslims commit acts of Aggression than any other group of people.
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Old 12-24-2015, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
This post triggered a few thoughts.

When you look at the number of Muslim that twist the Qur'an to find justification for violence, they seem to be a very small percentage and nearly all are adherents of Wahhabi/Salafi. Wahhabi make up less than 1% of the world's Muslims yet are responsible for virtually all acts of violence by Muslims.

The vast majority of Muslims, do not believe the Qur'an justifies aggression. I have not seen any actual studies, but But I am convinced that a much lower percentage of Muslims commit acts of Aggression than any other group of people.
The evil prone Muslims do not twist the verses of the Quran to justify their violence. They comply literally with the words of Allah as their duty within their covenants with Allah.


Since as Muslims there are so fearful of Allah and go all out not to go against the words of Allah, it is not likely they deliberately twist the verses of the Quran. They will not dare to do any mischiefs, rather they will be very pious and sincere in their practice as Muslim and obeying the words of Allah as close a possible.
Point is, if Allah say 'A' - they will do 'A' so that they will gain merit points.




Note 1% of Muslims is 15 million which is a very significant quantum as it only took 18++ to do a 911 and even lone wolf[s] can create terrible evils on humanity. It is this sensitive factor that make Islam and the evil prone Muslims very dangerous and a threat to humanity.


I understand the really terrible evils are confined to within the 15 millions.
However if you read the various polls you will note more than 20% and up to 80% support various evil elements from Islam and the acts of the jihadists. Such moral support is also very critical to the issue.


In addition, the terrible evils and violence [mass rapes, genocides, beheadings] are merely the tip of the icebergs of a wide range evils and violence committed by evil prone Muslims around the world.
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Old 12-25-2015, 09:32 AM
 
88 posts, read 35,008 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
It is not whether I believe it or not. Regardless I will be burnt in Hell eternally with the worst sufferings since I am a Kuffar from Allah's POV.
It is Allah who reserved the most vile 'hatred' [abhorrence] for me as a kuffar for merely not believing in his [SOME] vile ideas.

40:10. Lo! (on that day) those [infidels] who disbelieve are informed by proclamation: Verily Allah's abhorrence is more terrible than your abhorrence one of another, when ye [infidels] were called unto the faith but did refuse.


34:45. Those [of old] before them [Quraish infidels] denied, and these have not attained a tithe of that which We bestowed on them (of old); yet they [Quraish infidels] denied My messengers. How intense then was My abhorrence (of them)!
Note how Allah sowed the worst intense 'hatred' [abhorrence] in principle for the kuffar.
The irony is, yet when the kuffar critique this and other violence they are accused on spreading 'hatred' and being 'islamophobic' [an intellectually bankrupt term].
It is the same with those non-Nazis who critiqued and condemned the Mein Kampf as evil but the Nazi accused the non-Nazis of spreading hatred for the Nazis and Germany then.



As a matter of objectivity, the Muslims of ISIS, other jihadist groups and millions of other Muslims who agree with 3:118 take it as the truth from Allah and comply with Allah words, i.e. do not take non-Muslims [kuffar] as intimate friends.
The point it there is nothing you and other moderate Muslims can do anything about it.
Meanwhile the Muslims of ISIS and the likes are not befriending the kuffar but treat them as enemies and a threat which as such can be killed without incurring any sin on their part.
Since they comply with Allah's expectations they will gain merit points in their Illiyin.


The other point is you as a Muslim has entered into a covenant with Allah. Thus you have to comply with the expectations of Allah at stipulated in the Quran. The fact that you are befriending the Kuffar [if you have done so] you may be penalized with demerits points as recorded in the book [sijjirin or illiyin] which may delay your passage to paradise.
In the Eyes of Allah Shirk is the biggest Sin and unpardonable unless the Kafir believe in Allah before his death, Because you dont believe in Allah and also Atheist, your statements are based on "There is no God" but if you think it as believer of any religion you will understand why Shirk is biggest Sin. God Created Humans only to worship him and humans started to worship other gods Not Allah. If a person do not thanks his Creator and worship his Creator who gave him everything then he is the worse person and should be punished. Allah will punish them on the day of Judgement which is just and on the Day of Judgement There will be not a single human being who will object against the Justice of Allah(swt), All they will ask is that give us a one more chance and send us to earth. When you find yourself in that situation on the Day of Judgement then Ask these question that time and believe me even you will say that give me one more chance and you will be ready to sacrifice everything you have now to be Muslim in this world but there will be no chance for you.

Allah(swt) do not allow killing of infidel unless they attack Muslims these verses are enough to prove which are Chrystal clear:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"

"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"

Noble Verses came for specific times and places. I can't slay you, a non-Muslim, just because you're not a Muslim.The pagan Arabs were very hostile people and only knew the sword as an answer. Many wars were imposed upon the Muslims, and thus, it is only normal and natural to find Noble Verses that deal with these specific hostile situations. But the Message of the Noble Quran is PEACE, as clearly proven in Noble Verses 2:190, 8:61 and 5:28 above.
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Old 12-25-2015, 02:33 PM
 
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Just my opinion, but in the end, there will be quite a lot of extremist leaning Muslim's burning in hell fire. No book on earth,..no book of any God...can justify the murderous savagery of so many who follow a radical, extremist form of Islam. A true evil unleashed onto the world. A satanic force as dark as the Devil's most blackest thoughts. Welcome to hell, this is the final resting place of such individuals. There will be no virgins, no light, no mercy, no rest..only severe, endless pain and darkness for them. Just my opinion and view.

Last edited by folkguitarist555; 12-25-2015 at 02:41 PM..
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Old 12-26-2015, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by int007 View Post
In the Eyes of Allah Shirk is the biggest Sin and unpardonable unless the Kafir believe in Allah before his death, Because you dont believe in Allah and also Atheist, your statements are based on "There is no God" but if you think it as believer of any religion you will understand why Shirk is biggest Sin. God Created Humans only to worship him and humans started to worship other gods Not Allah.
If a person do not thanks his Creator and worship his Creator who gave him everything then he is the worse person and should be punished. Allah will punish them on the day of Judgement which is just and on the Day of Judgement There will be not a single human being who will object against the Justice of Allah(swt), All they will ask is that give us a one more chance and send us to earth.
When you find yourself in that situation on the Day of Judgement then Ask these question that time and believe me even you will say that give me one more chance and you will be ready to sacrifice everything you have now to be Muslim in this world but there will be no chance for you.
If you understand your own nature as a human being and psychology, you will understand the concept of God [an illusion] is invented to deal with a psychological weakness that manifest existential anxieties and existential dilemma.


This psychological effect of existential desperation is natural in all human beings due to human nature and as embedded in the DNA. This is why the concept of God is a critical for the majority of humans for the soteriological purpose as there are no other effective alternatives for them.


If you understand your own basic nature and has the psychological maturity and confidence to deal with the existential desperation, you will not have to rely on the illusory idea of God. In such a situation, you can forget about a creator, the threat of shirk, day of judgment, justice of Allah and whatever negatives arising from the idea of God. You will leave a life of real peace without any existential fears and threats [other than real physical ones] of an illusory God.


That is what Buddhism [and other Eastern religion] does. Buddhism zoom directly into the real problem of humans and introduce a problem-solving technique to improve the spiritual competency of the person via self-development to deal with that desperate existential problem.




Quote:
Allah(swt) do not allow killing of infidel unless they attack Muslims these verses are enough to prove which are Chrystal clear:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"

"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"

Noble Verses came for specific times and places. I can't slay you, a non-Muslim, just because you're not a Muslim.The pagan Arabs were very hostile people and only knew the sword as an answer. Many wars were imposed upon the Muslims, and thus, it is only normal and natural to find Noble Verses that deal with these specific hostile situations. But the Message of the Noble Quran is PEACE, as clearly proven in Noble Verses 2:190, 8:61 and 5:28 above.
The above verses do not stand on their own.


Here is an article the counter the claim of 2:190.
Was Muhammad A Terrorist?


Here is an article that counter 8:61
Misinterpreted Qur'anic Verses - WikiIslam


There are verses that apparently indicate Islam is peaceful on the surface, but the overall context of the Quran is not peaceful. The evil and violent laden verses and ethos is too heavy that it outweigh all the apparent "peaceful" verses in the Quran.


For example, surely there are witnesses [Germans and Nazi apologists] who can testify Hitler was the best humans in the world based on what they saw of the good deeds that Hitler did to his relatives, girlfriends, friends, soldiers, etc. and believed [blinded] Hitler was a good person.
However when we assess the critical evil deeds that Hitler inspired his overall net result is that of an evil person, i.e. one the most evil ever.


For example, Muslims often quote 5:32 -kill one as if kill mankind - without taking into account this is applicable to the Jews and 5:33 give the exception of 'corruption' that permit Muslims to kill the kuffar [not innocent]. There may be other good deeds that Muhammad mentioned in the Quran but what is critical is the net-overall effect his deeds has on humanity then, now and the future.


On an overall basis, besides whatever is good, Islam-in-part has an inherent malignant evil potential that has expressed itself by SOME evil prone Muslims since Islam emerged, throughout history, at present and will be in the future.
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