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Old 11-16-2015, 01:14 PM
 
144 posts, read 108,615 times
Reputation: 90

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Regardless of what you think of the operation, to do nothing in response to 3,000+ people killed on our soil would have had the citizens storming the gates in DC.
It's better to do nothing than killing blindly innocent people.
Then you aren't better than those who attacked you.

Ben Laden was a saudi citizen, originally from Yemen who was expulsed from Saudi Arabia because of his ideas, who later lived some time in an african country then fled to Afghanistan.
Al Quaida was in Afghanistan.

Irak had nothing to do with that and Colin Powell lied about the supposed weapons of mass destruction.

That american citizens were sad and wanted to take revenge we can all understand.
But liyng and attacking a country for false reasons is not right, so you shouldn't support this.
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma USA
1,196 posts, read 845,292 times
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I do hope we can read stories of Muslims helping in the orderly recovery of Paris to normal, and of average, decent French people standing up for the Muslims they personally know and do business with.
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:34 PM
 
32,532 posts, read 30,768,886 times
Reputation: 32351
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Regardless of what you think of the operation, to do nothing in response to 3,000+ people killed on our soil would have had the citizens storming the gates in DC.
So you believe the plan should be to just go in and drop bombs and kill people...... regardless of whether or not they are actually guilty of anything...... just to do something .... and make a statement. Because something.... needs to happen.

That's a REAL good way to alienate our allies. Wait. We already did that!

Indiscriminately dropping bombs on the heads of innocent people does diddly squat to kill the jihadist terrorists* who fly planes into buildings and shoot up concert venues. In fact.....jihadist terrorists use that for PR value to recruit MORE jihadist terrorists.





*Or disrupt their plans or destroy their organizations.

Last edited by DewDropInn; 11-16-2015 at 02:06 PM..
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma USA
1,196 posts, read 845,292 times
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Like Fazira reminded us on the first page, I too often think of Muslim French police officer Ahmed Merabet who died defending French civilization and values during the Charloe Hebdo attack.

While everybody else was going "JeSuiCharlie", I kept thinking -- like many Muslims (which I am not) -- No! " Je sui Achmed", a guy just doing his job to protect everyone, fairly and equally.

Last edited by goodmockingbird; 11-16-2015 at 01:54 PM..
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Old 11-16-2015, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,673 posts, read 15,549,029 times
Reputation: 11506
Quote:
Originally Posted by fazira View Post
It's better to do nothing than killing blindly innocent people.
Then you aren't better than those who attacked you.

Ben Laden was a saudi citizen, originally from Yemen who was expulsed from Saudi Arabia because of his ideas, who later lived some time in an african country then fled to Afghanistan.
Al Quaida was in Afghanistan.

Irak had nothing to do with that and Colin Powell lied about the supposed weapons of mass destruction.

That american citizens were sad and wanted to take revenge we can all understand.
But liyng and attacking a country for false reasons is not right, so you shouldn't support this.
I keep hearing the bold above, but then there's another attack by the same people.

12 people died in France back in January. Nothing big was done - now about 130 are dead. The theory doesn't work. I don't think France feels any better right now. Evil must be confronted. I don't want innocent people to be hurt, but if I am in charge of protecting citizens in a country - I will take that chance to the confront the evil that exists.

The bad guys may hide behind a hospital. Sorry - the hospital may have to go if I am certain the evil will perish.
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Old 11-16-2015, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,673 posts, read 15,549,029 times
Reputation: 11506
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
So you believe the plan should be to just go in and drop bombs and kill people...... regardless of whether or not they are actually guilty of anything...... just to do something .... and make a statement. Because something.... needs to happen.

That's a REAL good way to alienate our allies. Wait. We already did that!

Indiscriminately dropping bombs on the heads of innocent people does diddly squat to kill the jihadist terrorists* who fly planes into buildings and shoot up concert venues. In fact.....jihadist terrorists use that for PR value to recruit MORE jihadist terrorists.





*Or disrupt their plans or destroy their organizations.
Just to let you know - I am not even dealing with you over here.
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Old 11-16-2015, 02:41 PM
 
32,532 posts, read 30,768,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Just to let you know - I am not even dealing with you over here.
Lol....That's the least surprising thing I've been told all day.
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Old 11-16-2015, 02:59 PM
 
144 posts, read 108,615 times
Reputation: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
I keep hearing the bold above, but then there's another attack by the same people.

12 people died in France back in January. Nothing big was done - now about 130 are dead. The theory doesn't work. I don't think France feels any better right now. Evil must be confronted. I don't want innocent people to be hurt, but if I am in charge of protecting citizens in a country - I will take that chance to the confront the evil that exists.

The bad guys may hide behind a hospital. Sorry - the hospital may have to go if I am certain the evil will perish.
Of course something must be done i never said otherwise. It's not Syria who attacked France, it's people who agree with the ideas of daesh and Al Quaida.
.
In january for the Charlie Hebdo attack, the 2 brothers were algerians, the black guy from mali and his wife was algerian. France should attack Algeria and Mali ?
Did USA attacked the country of the 2 brothers of Boston ?

That's what i disagree when you want to attack a whole country like it was done for Irak.

They should help the pershmergas and any other group like them (if there's any) against daesh
I heard that Turkey after the bombing in their country (some weeks ago) have started to attack daesh.
Now France, maybe other people will start helping them. And i hope Russia will think twice before helping Bashar who contributed to this chaos.

Look what that little boy asked : stop the war and we go back to our country.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eJaYQczYiU
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Old 11-17-2015, 07:05 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,673 posts, read 15,549,029 times
Reputation: 11506
Fazira - You say we should not have attacked a country. OK. We have a group of people committing these crimes. What is the link? It's not a country... it's Islam. So maybe you are right - we should not have attacked a country. Maybe we need to deal with Islam since that seems to be the common thread among these people.

This situation is like a hacker that takes advantage of a vulnerability in a computer operating system and infects a computer. We have freedom of religion. So we have this "religion" committing a bunch of crimes and war time activities. They claim they will bring down America. Yet, they want protection because they are a religion. Doesn't sound like a religion to me. Maybe we need to reconsider Islam as a legal religion if these actions persist - and remove the protections applied to religions. Because right now, these people representing Islam are taking advantage of a vulnerability in our system - and ultimately in our thinking. We need to fix the vulnerability. We need to apply a patch to secure our system.

Laws are no good if they do not serve the people. If there is a vulnerability in our laws, the laws need to be changed. The decades long track record of violent criminal and war like behavior, along with their stated goals of bringing down America - from those who claim to be Islamic, should warrant a change on how the are regarded. It's not the nice thing to say... but it ain't nice to go through what France is going through either. Freedom of religion is the law of the land. Regarding Islam as worthy of those protections - based on their track record - should be up for discussion.
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Old 11-17-2015, 11:32 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 757,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
How do you believe most people outside of Islam see that religion? If people's main knowledge of Islam is through terrorism, they will make a perception that Islam is violent.

I understand that criminals are hijacking that religion to take part in a soft war - I guess I don't hear much in opposition to what they do. I don't see action against these people in Islamic countries were they train and are allowed to exist. As much as they have done around the world, these Islamic countries are allowing this behavior to persist - and to me become guilty by association.

I am not trying to be mean - just trying to be real here. At some point, there has to be more than talk. They train and are allowed to exist among the 99%.

I am just frustrated that they are doing what they are doing, and it should be easily squashed - if 99% are against it. It is what it is.
Good post!

Let's remember that this issue in France is much bigger than the recent slaughter. For years Muslims have been rioting and burning cars. For years Muslims have been demanding Shariah Law and clogging the streets during prayer. For years Muslims in France form their own enclaves and refuse to let others in.

This is not the first Muslim terrorist attack in France.

8-10 2004 Bombing: Bomb attack against the Indonesian Embassy in Paris, claimed by the Front islamique français armé.

11-22 March 2012: Toulouse and Montauban shootings, murdering three French paratroopers, a French Rabbi and three French schoolchildren (aged eight, six and three) carried out over a period of 11 days by Mohammed Merah.

20-12 2014: A man yelling "Allahu Akbar" attacked a police office in Joué-lès-Tours with a knife. He was killed and 3 police officers were injured.

21-12 2014 Vehicle ramming, Dijon attack. A man yelling "Allahu Akbar" ran over 11 pedestrians with his vehicle.

22:12 2014 Vehicle ramming, Nantes attack. A man yelling "Allahu Akbar" ran over 10 pedestrians with his vehicle, killing one, then attempted suicide.

7-9 January 2015 Île-de-France attacks, a mass shooting at the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo office in Paris, carried out by Saïd and Chérif Kouachi, two Islamist gunmen who identified themselves as belonging to Al-Qaeda in Yemen. During this period, a third Islamist gunmen and close friend of the Kouachi brothers, Amedy Coulibaly was responsible for two shootings and an hostage taking at a Hypercacher kosher market. He said he synchronized his attacks with the Kouachi brothers. Coulibaly had pledged allegiance to the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.

3 February 2015 3 military men, guarding a Jewish community center in Nice, are attacked by a Muslim

19 April 2015 Unsuccessful attack against 2 churches in Villejuif by an Algerian jihadist. He killed a woman probably when trying to steal her car but accidentally shot himself in the leg, putting an end to his plans.

26 June 2015 Saint-Quentin-Fallavier attack. An Islamist delivery driver decapitated a man and rammed a company van into gas cylinders at the Air Products gas factory in an attempt to blow up the building. Linked to ISIS.

21 August 2015 Thalys train attack. An attempted mass shooting occurred on a train traveling from Amsterdam to Paris. Four people were injured, including the assailant who was subdued by other passengers.

I agree. If 99% are against it, this would not be an issue.

Muslims around the world CELEBRATE the jihad victory in Paris | Pamela Geller

Devout Muslims CHEER Paris Slaughter on Social Media | Megyn Kelly


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icXJH6WYkOE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-p1LEBAujE

"Naziism - real Naziism - is the political ideology of freedom. Naziism had nothing to do with the handful of extremists who murdered six million Jews."

Wouldn't be a very persuasive defence of Naziism, would it?
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