U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-19-2015, 08:52 AM
 
Location: NC
4,534 posts, read 7,359,175 times
Reputation: 4739

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by fazira View Post
Which no go zones are you talking about ? Where is it ?
In the country of my birth, the UK. Visit YouTube and search muslim no go zones. Some are in the north of England. Trust me, if you are not Muslim, or a woman, you don't want to go anywhere near them! While you are doing your research, also search for Muslim Grooming Gangs - if you have a strong stomach.

Know that I don't hate Muslims. I have known and loved many who are fine people. I also respect that we each have the right to believe as we choose. I think we are truly all equal, (rich and poor, black or white, Muslim, Christian and Jew, etc) no one should be over another. However, there are many of the religion that have shown others a perversion like no other that is evil incarnate.

Sadly, I have seen first hand what the dark side of the religion can be. I had a family member targeted for radicalization years ago. This was way before anyone talked about it. And if I tried to tell anyone they thought it couldn't be true as they had no frame of reference - especially people in America as they had not seen anything like it before. I do believe the religion is based on false doctrine. Another poster spoke to it when they spoke of the prophet's life. But I am not here to debate this. I will respect that good people follow the religion. Sadly, all we hear about are the bad ones and their numbers are growing.

I think we need an international print, media, social media ad campaign targeted at those weaker individuals who might be targeted for radicalization. We need the Muslim community to help with this. While we fight ISIS now, we have to stop the next round of new recruits by presenting them with the facts and a belief system that cannot be infiltrated by ISIS propaganda and their cronies who do their work to recruit fresh meat. These poor suckers are being trained to blow themselves up and brainwashed to believe its a good thing. Believe it or not, it doesn't take them that long to take someone from a normal life to being willing to die for them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-19-2015, 09:11 AM
 
144 posts, read 109,354 times
Reputation: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaleighLass View Post
In the country of my birth, the UK. Visit YouTube and search muslim no go zones. Some are in the north of England. Trust me, if you are not Muslim, or a woman, you don't want to go anywhere near them! While you are doing your research, also search for Muslim Grooming Gangs - if you have a strong stomach.
Thanks for giving us more information.
I've been many times in England but only in London.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaleighLass View Post
Know that I don't hate Muslims. I have known and loved many who are fine people. I also respect that we each have the right to believe as we choose. I think we are truly all equal, (rich and poor, black or white, Muslim, Christian and Jew, etc) no one should be over another. However, there are many of the religion that have shown others a perversion like no other that is evil incarnate.
I agree and i never said it doesn't exist.
There's monsters everywhere. And we know those who follow those groups are monsters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaleighLass View Post
Sadly, I have seen first hand what the dark side of the religion can be. I had a family member targeted for radicalization years ago. This was way before anyone talked about it. And if I tried to tell anyone they thought it couldn't be true as they had no frame of reference - especially people in America as they had not seen anything like it before. I do believe the religion is based on false doctrine. Another poster spoke to it when they spoke of the prophet's life. But I am not here to debate this. I will respect that good people follow the religion. Sadly, all we hear about are the bad ones and their numbers are growing.
I have absolute no problem with people not loving my religion and who criticize it.
I gave explanations already as other muslims here before me about what was said concerning the prophet Muhammad, then like i said everyone can believe what he wants.
I'm sorry for your familly member.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaleighLass View Post
I think we need an international print, media, social media ad campaign targeted at those weaker individuals who might be targeted for radicalization. We need the Muslim community to help with this. While we fight ISIS now, we have to stop the next round of new recruits by presenting them with the facts and a belief system that cannot be infiltrated by ISIS propaganda and their cronies who do their work to recruit fresh meat. These poor suckers are being trained to blow themselves up and brainwashed to believe its a good thing. Believe it or not, it doesn't take them that long to take someone from a normal life to being willing to die for them.
I agree. The muslim population is aware of that as the majority of victims are muslims.
I think we also need all the politicians find solutions because a normal muslim citizen doesn't have power about what's going on in countries in war.
Some people are trying to explain to those radicalized muslims it's not the real Islam, some Imams go in the prisons to explain them that too.
But people who think that some demonstrations will do anything are dreaming.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2015, 09:46 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 761,527 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by fazira View Post
I will once and for good tell you this : i don't care about what you think of Islam.

If you and other people like you want to believe that Islam is what the extremists show, and if you only want to believe, accept and interpret the Holy texts in a different way (of the majority) and accept the one of the extremists : it's your choice, i don't care.

I don't involve myself too much now with those kind of discussions because it's endless.
I explain eventually a little bit, then you believe what you want.
I know that some questions don't wait for an answer or a real discussion but as on opportunity to only criticize.
But the kind of criticism where the person in reality don't care about the answer not the constructive one.



Do you know that the majorities of the owners of those burned cars were themselves from the neighborhood ?
Did you know that many of them couldn't after that go to work and they were also from the same religion as the rioters ?

Your problem is like in this saying : "When the wise man point at the moon, the idiot looks at the finger." (Confucius)



Except those people were just young people.
You are the kind of people when he sees a black delinquant he looks at his skin.



Maybe not the police, but i guess i wouldn't try myslef to go where the supporters of the KKK live.



Woodroo Li have be given many links since quite a long time.
I can give you many myself but you can do your own research if you want.
I am going by what the Quran and hadiths say. And they are VERY CLEAR. I know Muslims like to use the excuses of context and translation, but in most cases the context makes the situation even worse!

How old were the terrorists that slaughtered so many in Paris?

Bilal Hadfi blew himself up outside gate H of the Stade de France. He was 20. Ahmad Al Mohammad died in a suicide bomb at the Stade de France. A Syrian passport bearing his name was found at the scene. He was 25. One of the Boston bombers was 20 or 21.

" The "profile of a suicide bomber" from recent attacks is not that different from the profile put together in the winter of 1996. Some are older and better educated than their predecessors, but the young would-be suicide bombers recently arrested bring down the average. The age range is currently between 17-years-old (the attempted attack in Afula) and 28 (the Islamic Jihad man who blew himself up in the Wall Street cafe in Kiryat Motzkin). The average age of the suicide bomber is currently 21."
read more: Profile of a Suicide bomber:Single Male, Average Age - 21 - Israel News - Haaretz Israeli News Source

Let me ask you: Do you agree with Woodrow and the Quran that all disbelievers should suffer endless torture by allah as it states hundreds of times in the Quran?

Do you think Muhammed was evil to have sex with a 9 year old child?

Do you think Muhammed was wrong to own and trade and have sex with slaves?

Do you think allah and Muhammed were evil to allow rape of captive women and slaves?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2015, 11:35 AM
 
144 posts, read 109,354 times
Reputation: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
I am going by what the Quran and hadiths say. And they are VERY CLEAR. I know Muslims like to use the excuses of context and translation, but in most cases the context makes the situation even worse!
Not true, most of time you don't pay attention to the context which is easy to be understood if you simply read the whole sourate.
Reading the whole Quran is even better as some parts of one story can be find in other sourats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post

Let me ask you: Do you agree with Woodrow and the Quran that all disbelievers should suffer endless torture by allah as it states hundreds of times in the Quran?
I don't believe they "should" suffer and i'm not God to decide anything.
I believe bad people (big criminals) must suffer if they didn't regret what they did.
And criminals are amongst muslims too.
But if God wants to punish anyone even if it's because disbelief, it's not my problem. Again :i 'm not God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Do you think Muhammed was evil to have sex with a 9 year old child?
I don't believe she was 9.
And don't bother to give me your hadiths about that because i have others hadiths who said the contrary.

I would be glad to share them with you but i'm sure you don't care.
So keep believe in that i won't waste my time again with people who don't care of the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Do you think Muhammed was wrong to own and trade and have sex with slaves?
Muhammad liberated them as the Quran stated it should be.

Those people were prisonners of war that he took as slave meaning in that time : who worked for him. But not slave as it used to be in other places like the west were those people were considerated as ****, didn't have any rights, weren't even not considerated as "humans" for some.

The Quran encouraged to liberated them so they were all liberated at the end.
Of course after some made business of that, but it's not permitted to do so.
The prophet Muhammad forbade that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Do you think allah and Muhammed were evil to allow rape of captive women and slaves?
Rape : fornication.
You can see that in the sourate "El nour" (the light). The captive have also the punishement if fornication.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2015, 04:52 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 761,527 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by fazira View Post
Not true, most of time you don't pay attention to the context which is easy to be understood if you simply read the whole sourate.
Reading the whole Quran is even better as some parts of one story can be find in other sourats.



I don't believe they "should" suffer and i'm not God to decide anything.
I believe bad people (big criminals) must suffer if they didn't regret what they did.
And criminals are amongst muslims too.
But if God wants to punish anyone even if it's because disbelief, it's not my problem. Again :i 'm not God.



I don't believe she was 9.
And don't bother to give me your hadiths about that because i have others hadiths who said the contrary.

I would be glad to share them with you but i'm sure you don't care.
So keep believe in that i won't waste my time again with people who don't care of the truth.



Muhammad liberated them as the Quran stated it should be.

Those people were prisonners of war that he took as slave meaning in that time : who worked for him. But not slave as it used to be in other places like the west were those people were considerated as ****, didn't have any rights, weren't even not considerated as "humans" for some.

The Quran encouraged to liberated them so they were all liberated at the end.
Of course after some made business of that, but it's not permitted to do so.
The prophet Muhammad forbade that.



Rape : fornication.
You can see that in the sourate "El nour" (the light). The captive have also the punishement if fornication.
Actually, I've read the Quran and I do read the context...and I even know the WIDE context. You don't. And, the context usually makes what is in the Quran even worse!

Muslims are the ones who love to drop context. A great example is verse 5:32. Why don't you post it here?

So, you don't think disbelievers deserve to suffer. Then you must think Allah is terribly wrong to do endless horrible torture to disbelievers. Can you say that Allah is evil, or even just bad, to want to dreadfully torture disbelievers?

Provide the hadiths that say Aisha was some other age than 9 years old. I have never seen them.

Post the verse in the Quran that says all slaves must be freed. Why didn't Muhammed free all his slaves? Why did Muhammed do this:

There came a slave and pledged allegiance to Allah's Apostle on migration; he (the Holy Prophet) did not know that he was a slave. Then there came his master and demanded him back, whereupon Allah's Apostle said: Sell him to me. And he bought him for two black slaves, and he did not afterwards take allegiance from anyone until he had asked him whether he was a slave (or a free man) (Sahih Muslim 3901).

Muhammad “purchased” the slave by trading two black slaves, which is hardly a shining example of emancipation. Not only that, but it establishes the fact that Muhammad owned and traded African slaves. Muhammed could have liberated all three slaves, but instead chose to sell the two Africans into an uncertain future.

The apostle gave Ali a girl called Rayta; and he gave Uthman a girl called Zaynab; and he gave Umar a girl whom Umar gave to his son Abdullah. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 878)

Nice. This isn't freeing slaves.

Narrated Kurib: the freed slave of Ibn 'Abbas, that Maimuna bint Al-Harith told him that she manumitted a slave-girl without taking the permission of the Prophet. On the day when it was her turn to be with the Prophet, she said, "Do you know, O Allah's Apostle, that I have manumitted my slave-girl?" He said, "Have you really?" She replied in the affirmative. He said, "You would have got more reward if you had given her (i.e. the slave-girl) to one of your maternal uncles."
— Sahih al-Bukhari, 3:47:765

There is not the least bit of intolerance for slavery anywhere in the Quran. The Quran explicitly gives slave-owners the freedom to sexually exploit their slaves – not just in one place, but in at least four separate verses.

Let me ask you: Do you agree with Woodrow and the Quran that all disbelievers should suffer endless torture by allah as it states hundreds of times in the Quran?

Do you think Muhammed was evil to have sex with a 9 year old child?

Do you think Muhammed was wrong to own and trade and have sex with slaves?

Do you think allah and Muhammed were evil to allow rape of captive women and slaves?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2015, 05:45 PM
 
Location: NC
4,534 posts, read 7,359,175 times
Reputation: 4739
Quote:
Originally Posted by fazira View Post
Thanks for giving us more information.
I've been many times in England but only in London.



I agree and i never said it doesn't exist.
There's monsters everywhere. And we know those who follow those groups are monsters.



I have absolute no problem with people not loving my religion and who criticize it.
I gave explanations already as other muslims here before me about what was said concerning the prophet Muhammad, then like i said everyone can believe what he wants.
I'm sorry for your familly member.



I agree. The muslim population is aware of that as the majority of victims are muslims.
I think we also need all the politicians find solutions because a normal muslim citizen doesn't have power about what's going on in countries in war.
Some people are trying to explain to those radicalized muslims it's not the real Islam, some Imams go in the prisons to explain them that too.
But people who think that some demonstrations will do anything are dreaming.
Are the imams trying to educate the youth in the mosques about the radicals? Are you in America or overseas? If America, is there any outreach going on from the mosques to the community to try to fight radicalization? I recently read that there is such a program in England somewhere.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-20-2015, 07:43 AM
 
144 posts, read 109,354 times
Reputation: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaleighLass View Post
Are the imams trying to educate the youth in the mosques about the radicals? Are you in America or overseas? If America, is there any outreach going on from the mosques to the community to try to fight radicalization? I recently read that there is such a program in England somewhere.
I'm not in the US. But yes the Imams explain that to people but there's mosques when there can be some radical imams.
I've seen that on tv today for the friday prayer, some talked about the events in Paris.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-20-2015, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,377,906 times
Reputation: 7408
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaleighLass View Post
Are the imams trying to educate the youth in the mosques about the radicals? Are you in America or overseas? If America, is there any outreach going on from the mosques to the community to try to fight radicalization? I recently read that there is such a program in England somewhere.
There are about 2300 Mosques in the USA but less than 700 Imams, most of those being part time. Most US Muslims do not even have a Mosque to go to. As most of the Mosques can only hold about 20 people. about a 100 can hold over 500 peole and perhaps 10 can hold over 1000

An Imam technically should not teach nor preach. the only functions an Imam has should be to lead the 5 daily Obligatory Prayers, keep the Mosque clean and in good condition and on Friday give a short sermon before the Jummah prayer. The Sermon should be related to local concerns.

However, Muslims as individuals are fighting terrorism in the USA. there are anti-extremism groups. also there are Muslim groups that are working closely with US government agencies.


How Muslims Prevent Terror Attacks In The US: Robust Intelligence Capacity And Integration Help Fight Radicalization, Experts Say

Muslims against terrorism and extremism | Free Muslims Coalition

The American Muslim (TAM)

Muslims Against Terrorism (MAT)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/20/us...ecruiters.html
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-20-2015, 08:22 AM
 
144 posts, read 109,354 times
Reputation: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post

Muslims are the ones who love to drop context. A great example is verse 5:32. Why don't you post it here?
When i quoted this verse the other day you said to me something like "don't dare to quote this verse again !" "this doesn't concern you".
And now you're asking me why i didn't talked about this verse ? lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
So, you don't think disbelievers deserve to suffer. Then you must think Allah is terribly wrong to do endless horrible torture to disbelievers. Can you say that Allah is evil, or even just bad, to want to dreadfully torture disbelievers?
Yes it's horrible torture, but i'm not God.
No, i won't say He's bad, it's not my rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Provide the hadiths that say Aisha was some other age than 9 years old. I have never seen them.
Aisha's Age

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Post the verse in the Quran that says all slaves must be freed.
I don't have time now, i gie you that maybe later, but you can search for it in google


Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Why did Muhammed do this:

There came a slave and pledged allegiance to Allah's Apostle on migration; he (the Holy Prophet) did not know that he was a slave. Then there came his master and demanded him back, whereupon Allah's Apostle said: Sell him to me. And he bought him for two black slaves, and he did not afterwards take allegiance from anyone until he had asked him whether he was a slave (or a free man) (Sahih Muslim 3901).

Muhammad “purchased” the slave by trading two black slaves, which is hardly a shining example of emancipation. Not only that, but it establishes the fact that Muhammad owned and traded African slaves. Muhammed could have liberated all three slaves, but instead chose to sell the two Africans into an uncertain future.
I don't know all the stories in the hadiths neither their authenticity, but i guess the other two men were maybe not muslims so he exchanged a muslim for some who weren't then he can probably free him later.

That's what happened to Bilal. He was a slave but muslims bought them because he accepted Islam and the Quraish for that tortured him.
They bought him and freed him.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-20-2015, 12:51 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 761,527 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by fazira View Post
When i quoted this verse the other day you said to me something like "don't dare to quote this verse again !" "this doesn't concern you".
And now you're asking me why i didn't talked about this verse ? lol



Yes it's horrible torture, but i'm not God.
No, i won't say He's bad, it's not my rules.



Aisha's Age



I don't have time now, i gie you that maybe later, but you can search for it in google




I don't know all the stories in the hadiths neither their authenticity, but i guess the other two men were maybe not muslims so he exchanged a muslim for some who weren't then he can probably free him later.

That's what happened to Bilal. He was a slave but muslims bought them because he accepted Islam and the Quraish for that tortured him.
They bought him and freed him.
Let me clarify: Don't post the dishonest version of the verse. The one that drops the whole context of the command being to the Jews and not the Muslims.

I am asking you for your opinion. Can you say that allah was wrong/evil to say (hundreds of times) that he is and will horribly and endlessly torture disbelievers?

Your answer is obviously that you are OK with allah horribly torturing disbelievers for eternity. Do you think we deserve that? Obviously yes.

I have researched the hadiths....I cannot find any verse that says Aisha was a different age (there may have been one that said she was 10) but there are many saying she was 9. I posted them. Now you need to back up your claim that there are hadiths that say she was a different age. There are many occasions where I don't have time to research, but I do anyways. Post those hadiths.

Where did it say he freed them later? You made that up! Neither is there any record of Muhammad “liberating” slaves captured in battle, unless there was something that he personally gained from the act. In fact, he made slaves out of those who were previously free people, particularly if they were women and children.

Muhammed even had sex with his female slaves. One had his child as I recall.

Look, I understand why you do not want to admit this. The thought of a 53-year-old man having sex with and fondling and bathing with a little child is intensely unpleasant and it does not reflect the character of a holy man.

List of Muhammad's Wives and Concubines - WikiIslam
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top