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Old 11-20-2015, 03:29 PM
 
144 posts, read 108,365 times
Reputation: 90

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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Let me clarify: Don't post the dishonest version of the verse. The one that drops the whole context of the command being to the Jews and not the Muslims.
I don't understand here ... you asked me why i didn't quote the verse, and then you say the verse is dishonest ..
So leave me alone with your gibberish !

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
I am asking you for your opinion. Can you say that allah was wrong/evil to say (hundreds of times) that he is and will horribly and endlessly torture disbelievers?

Your answer is obviously that you are OK with allah horribly torturing disbelievers for eternity. Do you think we deserve that? Obviously yes.
If people will suffer i can't help them. I don't even know what will happen to myself .

You should understand one thing at a moment : some people don't wish to be agnostics or wathever you are.
And i don't care what you think about God.
You don't believe in Hell so don't make a big deal of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
I have researched the hadiths....I cannot find any verse that says Aisha was a different age (there may have been one that said she was 10) but there are many saying she was 9. I posted them. Now you need to back up your claim that there are hadiths that say she was a different age. There are many occasions where I don't have time to research, but I do anyways. Post those hadiths.
Here : Age of Aisha (ra) at time of marriage

AYESHA AGE THE MYTH OF* A PROVERBIAL WEDDING EXPOSED

Plus, you need to understand there's a chronology, you need to know some important things such as :

-When Abu Bakar (Aisha's father) accepted Islam
-When did Aisha accept Islam : was she born, a baby, a young girl ?
-When did Khadija die ? How many times the Prophet married after she died ?
-When did Aisha participated to the wars ? The war under the age of 15 wasn't possible
-The war happened after Hijra ? So when was the Hijra ?
-After how many time she consumated the mariage, after or before the Hijra ?
-How old where her sisters ? How old was Prophet Muhammad, at what age did they died etc ?

That's what was explained in the previous link i gave you. So do your homeworks first and you'll see how are stupid those hadiths saying she saw 6/9 years old.
You accept hadiths without nothing anything about some important facts, with errors historically ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Where did it say he freed them later? You made that up! Neither is there any record of Muhammad “liberating” slaves captured in battle, unless there was something that he personally gained from the act.
You know, besides internet there's something called "Books" you can buy and read them.
I suggest you the Sira, and you'll see by yourself.

Nodoby says Islam abolished slavery.
Islam gave them a statut, rights, they were considerated as "brothers/sisters", as humans etc
Those who were slaves were the prisoners/captives they can be exchanged as said in the Quran or liberated or they can afford eventually their freedom like the link i gave above
But It was asked to muslims to free them to please to Allah.

There's the possibility to be free you can look here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukataba

And here the verses who say to liberate the slaves.
For expiation, for a good action, because the slave asked etc there's many ways for that.
People were encouraged to do so :

47.4 Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.

4.92 He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave, and pay the blood-money to the family of the slain, unless they remit it as a charity. If he (the victim) be of a people hostile unto you, and he is a believer, then (the penance is) to set free a believing slave. And if he cometh of a folk between whom and you there is a covenant, then the blood-money must be paid unto his folk and (also) a believing slave must be set free. And whoso hath not the wherewithal must fast two consecutive months.

24.33 And let those who cannot find a match keep chaste till Allah give them independence by His grace. And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you.

90.
3 We verily have created man in an atmosphere: Thinketh he that none hath power over him? And he saith: I have destroyed vast wealth: Thinketh he that none beholdeth him?
Did We not assign unto him two eyes ]And a tongue and two lips, And guide him to the parting of the mountain ways? But he hath not attempted the Ascent - Ah, what will convey unto thee what the Ascent is! - (It is) to free a slave, And to feed in the day of hunger. An orphan near of kin, Or some poor wretch in misery,

2.177
It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the prophets; and giveth wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor-due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the God-fearing.


9.60
The alms are only for the poor and the needy, and those who collect them, and those whose hearts are to be reconciled, and to free the captives and the debtors, and for the cause of Allah, and (for) the wayfarer; a duty imposed by Allah. Allah is Knower, Wise.


5.89
Allah will not take you to task for that which is unintentional in your oaths, but He will take you to task for the oaths which ye swear in earnest. The expiation thereof is the feeding of ten of the needy with the average of that wherewith ye feed your own folk, or the clothing of them, or the liberation of a slave, and for him who findeth not (the wherewithal to do so) then a three days' fast. This is the expiation of your oaths when ye have sworn; and keep your oaths. Thus Allah expoundeth unto you His revelations in order that ye may give thanks.


As for those who later made business of it, that wasn't allowed by Islam.


This is my last answer to you concerning thoses subjects (Aisha/slavery), in case you didn't notice : you're OFF TOPIC.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-20-2015, 05:21 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 756,458 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by fazira View Post
I don't understand here ... you asked me why i didn't quote the verse, and then you say the verse is dishonest ..
So leave me alone with your gibberish !



If people will suffer i can't help them. I don't even know what will happen to myself .

You should understand one thing at a moment : some people don't wish to be agnostics or wathever you are.
And i don't care what you think about God.
You don't believe in Hell so don't make a big deal of it.



Here : Age of Aisha (ra) at time of marriage

AYESHA AGE THE MYTH OF* A PROVERBIAL WEDDING EXPOSED

Plus, you need to understand there's a chronology, you need to know some important things such as :

-When Abu Bakar (Aisha's father) accepted Islam
-When did Aisha accept Islam : was she born, a baby, a young girl ?
-When did Khadija die ? How many times the Prophet married after she died ?
-When did Aisha participated to the wars ? The war under the age of 15 wasn't possible
-The war happened after Hijra ? So when was the Hijra ?
-After how many time she consumated the mariage, after or before the Hijra ?
-How old where her sisters ? How old was Prophet Muhammad, at what age did they died etc ?

That's what was explained in the previous link i gave you. So do your homeworks first and you'll see how are stupid those hadiths saying she saw 6/9 years old.
You accept hadiths without nothing anything about some important facts, with errors historically ...



You know, besides internet there's something called "Books" you can buy and read them.
I suggest you the Sira, and you'll see by yourself.

Nodoby says Islam abolished slavery.
Islam gave them a statut, rights, they were considerated as "brothers/sisters", as humans etc
Those who were slaves were the prisoners/captives they can be exchanged as said in the Quran or liberated or they can afford eventually their freedom like the link i gave above
But It was asked to muslims to free them to please to Allah.

There's the possibility to be free you can look here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukataba

And here the verses who say to liberate the slaves.
For expiation, for a good action, because the slave asked etc there's many ways for that.
People were encouraged to do so :

47.4 Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.

4.92 He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave, and pay the blood-money to the family of the slain, unless they remit it as a charity. If he (the victim) be of a people hostile unto you, and he is a believer, then (the penance is) to set free a believing slave. And if he cometh of a folk between whom and you there is a covenant, then the blood-money must be paid unto his folk and (also) a believing slave must be set free. And whoso hath not the wherewithal must fast two consecutive months.

24.33 And let those who cannot find a match keep chaste till Allah give them independence by His grace. And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you.

90.
3 We verily have created man in an atmosphere: Thinketh he that none hath power over him? And he saith: I have destroyed vast wealth: Thinketh he that none beholdeth him?
Did We not assign unto him two eyes ]And a tongue and two lips, And guide him to the parting of the mountain ways? But he hath not attempted the Ascent - Ah, what will convey unto thee what the Ascent is! - (It is) to free a slave, And to feed in the day of hunger. An orphan near of kin, Or some poor wretch in misery,

2.177
It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the prophets; and giveth wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor-due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the God-fearing.


9.60
The alms are only for the poor and the needy, and those who collect them, and those whose hearts are to be reconciled, and to free the captives and the debtors, and for the cause of Allah, and (for) the wayfarer; a duty imposed by Allah. Allah is Knower, Wise.


5.89
Allah will not take you to task for that which is unintentional in your oaths, but He will take you to task for the oaths which ye swear in earnest. The expiation thereof is the feeding of ten of the needy with the average of that wherewith ye feed your own folk, or the clothing of them, or the liberation of a slave, and for him who findeth not (the wherewithal to do so) then a three days' fast. This is the expiation of your oaths when ye have sworn; and keep your oaths. Thus Allah expoundeth unto you His revelations in order that ye may give thanks.


As for those who later made business of it, that wasn't allowed by Islam.


This is my last answer to you concerning thoses subjects (Aisha/slavery), in case you didn't notice : you're OFF TOPIC.
You said:

"I don't believe she was 9.
And don't bother to give me your hadiths about that because i have others hadiths who said the contrary."

Provide the hadiths.

Your excuses are false. Foe example:
"-When did Aisha participated to the wars ? The war under the age of 15 wasn't possible "

To FIGHT you must be 15. Muhammed brought Aisha along to have sex with. All authentic sources of Aisha’s own testimony confirm she was aged nine at the time. These alternate ages have been derived from misquotations, indirect sources, fuzzy dating techniques, and slander, in an attempt to cast doubt upon facts which have been unquestionably accepted by Muslims for almost 1,500 years.

I can't help the people in Paris, but I know the Muslims who slaughtered them were evil. Why are you unable to say that allah is evil to endlessly torture disbelievers?

What about the slaves that Muhammed took captive and let his men rape with allah's approval? Is that good treatment? I have proved that Muhammed owned and traded slaves. If you can prove that he freed all his slaves then do so. I have also proved that Muhammed took women captive after slaughtering their fathers, sons and husbands (with allah's approval).

To stay on topic:
Muhammed was the most influential Muslim to ever live.
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