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Old 11-25-2015, 04:17 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I understand you have some sort of psychology background but unfortunately you do not have an in depth and wide knowledge of the issues of psychology. I have a great interest in psychology and is very aggressive to learn whatever is necessary in psychology.


Within the subject of psychology, there is the topic of compulsions and they can be driven subliminally by various drives and factors. In a subliminal situation a person may think he is making the decision him/herself but actually there are subliminal factors that drive the person to make specific decisions.


For example a person may have some kind of an obsession compulsive disorder [OCD] and think it is his decision to act out certain habits. Sometimes that OCD could be due to a tumor in his brain or other reasons. When that tumor is removed, the OCD vanishes.


In the above situation, there is no ultimate free will on the part of the person who has OCD, rather it is the tumor or other causes that created that OCD. So should a person go to hell because of the tumor?


In many cases, even if someone know the threat of hell, their OCD and other compulsive forces are too strong in controlling them to commit 'sins.' Kleptomaniac [mental disease on compulsive stealing] is one case where a person cannot control the compulsion to steal regardless of the threat of Hell. It is the same for the compulsive serial killer.


Your concept of Hell [as in the Quran] and how people should be punished in Hell is wrong, false and dangerous to humanity as it has actually been.
If a person has OCD or similar. Their level of free will is greatly reduced. We are not accountable for that which is not of our free will.
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:49 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
How many times in the Quran does allah threaten people with burning in hell?
How many times a day does a railroad crossing light warn of approaching trains?

What difference does it make how many timess the Qur'an warns of Hellfire? Is it not compassion to warn of danger?


If a person does not believe in God(swt), Heaven or Hell it should be of no concern to them.

To believers,the frequent warnings are seen as welcome warnings from a caring God(swt)
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Old 11-25-2015, 08:29 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
How many times a day does a railroad crossing light warn of approaching trains?

What difference does it make how many timess the Qur'an warns of Hellfire? Is it not compassion to warn of danger?


If a person does not believe in God(swt), Heaven or Hell it should be of no concern to them.

To believers,the frequent warnings are seen as welcome warnings from a caring God(swt)
So, in principle, you think violence against others is good and warranted (and even loving and compassionate) if you warn them you are going to commit violence against them first.

To other Muslims posting here: Do you agree with WoodrowLI about this?
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Old 11-25-2015, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
So, in principle, you think violence against others is good and warranted (and even loving and compassionate) if you warn them you are going to commit violence against them first.

To other Muslims posting here: Do you agree with WoodrowLI about this?
I do not believe you have the ability of reading minds. I doubt you know what I or anyone else thinks.

I am a total pacifist that does not think violence should ever be used, not even in self defense.

but I also believe that if a person has been told and is absolutely certain they will suffer very much pain if they jump into a pool full of alligators and pirhanas I have little sympathy if they consistently jump into that pool especially if they have been warned not to, many times.
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Old 11-25-2015, 09:17 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I do not believe you have the ability of reading minds. I doubt you know what I or anyone else thinks.

I am a total pacifist that does not think violence should ever be used, not even in self defense.

but I also believe that if a person has been told and is absolutely certain they will suffer very much pain if they jump into a pool full of alligators and pirhanas I have little sympathy if they consistently jump into that pool especially if they have been warned not to, many times.
Nope, I can't read minds. That is why I am asking other Muslims. I know what you think. You told me.

Pacifists don't follow violent ideologies like Islam and do not defend horrible torture for disbelief. Your examples equate allah with railroad crossings or piranhas. These things do not have free will. Allah does. Allah chooses to inflict horrible and eternal torture on disbelievers. Just like any psychopath...or is it sociopath? But much worse because allah is supposedly all powerful and a GOD! You think allah is compassionate because he warned before he started his horrible torture. So, in principle, you think violence against others is good and warranted (and even loving and compassionate) if you warn them you are going to commit violence against them first.

You may be the kind of person that submits to disgusting threats from a monster. I'm not. I don't even believe such evil exists. You choose to follow that evil.

Now I am interested in hearing from other Muslims. I've heard from you.
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Old 11-25-2015, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Nope, I can't read minds. That is why I am asking other Muslims. I know what you think. You told me.

Pacifists don't follow violent ideologies like Islam and do not defend horrible torture for disbelief. Your examples equate allah with railroad crossings or piranhas. These things do not have free will. Allah does. Allah chooses to inflict horrible and eternal torture on disbelievers. Just like any psychopath...or is it sociopath? But much worse because allah is supposedly all powerful and a GOD! You think allah is compassionate because he warned before he started his horrible torture. So, in principle, you think violence against others is good and warranted (and even loving and compassionate) if you warn them you are going to commit violence against them first.

You may be the kind of person that submits to disgusting threats from a monster. I'm not. I don't even believe such evil exists. You choose to follow that evil.

Now I am interested in hearing from other Muslims. I've heard from you.
Sadly the non-Muslims have pretty much run the Muslims off of the Islamic forum. I and 2 others are about the only Muslims that still post here. But I do hope others will prove me wrong and reply to you.

I am pleased you do want the opinions of other Muslims. We do have a very wide range of opinions. I find it hard to find 2 Muslims that agree on all matters. We do value our individuality.
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