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Old 11-26-2015, 11:24 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loyal_Heart View Post

In sum, we are talking about a man who did not shy away from his wives when nature took its course and showed them affection, despite his being engaged in devotion. And yes, he has sex with them, washed off the bodily fluid and went to the mosque. Such things are only x-rated to immature people with childish minds. Married people have sex, adult women menstruate and religion exists to offer practical guidance.

As for Obama praising Islam , why should we care if he does praise Islam or not? Obama is just a human being ,he performs his duties and one day another president will take his place and so on , presidents will come and go and they all , i believe , are part of some grand plan BREAKING: Declassified Docs Show That Obama Admin Created ISIS In 2012 To Use As A 'Tool' ⋆ US Herald

I can't speak for those who raped women in Sweden just because they're muslims because crime is a human thing , also the highest crime levels of rape are found in many developped countries and are committed by non-muslims as well.

To do this the shortest way, start reading unbiased sources about Islam, and set your pre-assumption, anti-Islamic ideas aside. Don't waste your time asking low key questions to hunt for anything fishy, because there isn't. Get to the main principles of Islam, and when fairly done, you'll have plenty of time to dig into the fine little details.

"O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship,Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine" Qur'an 109:1-6

Of course you are free , as is everyone else reading this ,to choose whether to believe or doubt what i wrote , you are free to ask more questions and they will all be answered.
The issue with Muhammed and his sperm is that he made a little girl clean it off....and that little girl was his child bride. How demeaning is this? To have to clean up sperm from encounters with many other women.

Narrated 'Aisha: I used to wash the semen off the clothes of the Prophet and even then I used to notice one or more spots on them.
Sahih Bukhari 1:4:233

Obama is putting this country at risk. He's lying about ISIS (that nonsense of ISIS being under control right before the Paris attacks), and so much more. The crap about how we must not slander Muhammed. What rubbish! Any fool knows that bringing Syrian Muslims into this country is a huge risk.

"America's enemies within: How nearly SEVENTY have been arrested in America over ISIS plots in the last 18 months - including refugees who had been given safe haven but 'turned to terror'

Nearly 70 are arrested in America over ISIS plots and they include refugees | Daily Mail Online

"Syrian community leader: ISIS is already in America"
Syrian community leader: ISIS is already in America | New York Post

Amb. Bolton on vetting refugees

If you want me to start posting many news articles, I will.

In Sweden there was almost NO rape at all....then the Muslims and and now Sweden is the rape capital. Gangs of Muslim men rape women and girls in the UK by the thousands. Muslims are committing horrific terrorist attacks in the name of Islam.

I read the Quran and hadiths. I watch what is happening. I read pro and con about Islam. I use induction and deduction. I talk to thousands of Muslims. I read books, articles, discussion groups. I CAN THINK.
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Old 11-26-2015, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,584,535 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loyal_Heart View Post
I must remind you that you are hijacking this thread , i believe there are enough threads here you can explain this to members who share your point of view , you can discuss this at the Current Event section .
When I pointed out your shortcomings you accuse me of hijacking this thread.


What I have posted is directly related to your OP, 'The Future of Islam' and more so because I am discussing it from the very fundamental and ultimate root causes level.


In your point 4, you stated;
4)-The terrorist groups that keep attacking non-muslims countries and the muslims as well : Syria , Iraq , Libya...Hundreds of victims are registred in these countries which go unnoticed because the media keep their focus dircted toward attacks on Developped Western countries.
So my posting re 'violence' is very relevant to the OP.
Note your OP 'The Future of Islam' is a very open ended topic, thus any thing related to Islam and its future is relevant.

Quote:
If you want to understand what is the real meaning of Jihad , you must refer to reliable Islamic books :

In the linguistic sense, the Arabic word "jihad" means struggling or striving and applies to any effort exerted by anyone. In this sense, a student struggles and strives to get an education and pass course work; an employee strives to fulfill his/her job and maintain good relations with his/her employer; a politician strives to maintain or increase his [1] popularity with his constituents and so on. The term strive or struggle may be used for/by Muslims as well as non-Muslims.

In the West, "jihad" is generally translated as "holy war," a usage the media has popularized. According to Islamic teachings, it is UNHOLY to instigate or start war; however, some wars are inevitable and justifiable. If we translate the words "holy war" back into Arabic, we find "Harbun Muqaddasatu," or for "the holy war," "Al-Harbu Al-Muqaddasatu." WE CHALLENGE any researcher or scholar to find the meaning of "jihad" as holy war in the Quran or authentic Hadith collections or in early Islamic literature. Unfortunately, some Muslim writers and translators of the Quran, the Hadith and other Islamic literature translate the term "jihad" as "holy war," due to the influence of centuries-old Western propaganda. This could be a reflection of the Christian use of the term "Holy War" to refer to the Crusades of a thousand years ago. However, the Arabic words for "war" are "Harb" or "Qital," which are found in the Quran and Hadith.


About Jihad - What is Jihad? Islamic Holy War? Muslims Killing Jews & Christians?
There are various interpretations of the term 'jihad' by various Muslims.
What is most critical is how the 20% of evil prone [pool of 300 million] Muslims construe, interpret and act out the term 'jihad'.
Now, who are you and the rest of Muslims [so called moderates] who are fallible humans to tell the jihadists they are wrong in their interpretations of the concept of jihad based on their sincere interpretation* of the Quranic verses.
*No jihadists [most and their clergy are very pious] would NOT dare to harbor any deliberate intention to twist the verses in the Quran and Hadith for their selfish interests as they know full well if they act on their own will, they will surely go to hell.


The problem and the fact are there are no central authority and Allah is not available in the human court to decide who is right and who is wrong. A Muslim can only find out the final decision on Judgment Day when his Sijjin or Iliyin is read out.


Btw, I find the term 'jihad' is merely a placeholder and convenient term for a more serious doctrine of Islam, i.e. striving for the cause of Allah and Islam.
Per the Quran, human beings are created by Allah to serve Allah, i.e. to protect the sanctity of Allah and his religion [& deen] with their wealth and their lives if the religion is wronged.
22:39. Sanction [permission authorised] is given unto those [Muslims] who fight because they [Muslims] have been wronged [by infidels and hypocrites]; and Allah is indeed Able to give them [Muslims] victory;

Another problem is the term 'wronged' is ambiguous and when taken to the extreme e.g. the 'drawing of cartoons of Muhammad' is 'wronged'. The synonymous terms are 'mischiefs,' 'corruption,' and the likes which allow for Muslims [the evil prone] to wage war [for the cause of Allah and Islam] on non-Muslims on any thing they felt insulted and wronged based on their own low self esteem and high sensitivity.


Any thing that non-Muslims interacted with Muslims matters and where the Muslims do not feel comfortable is interpreted as wrong. e.g. the US is regarded as the great Satan even when it is helping another group of Muslims [Saudi, Kuwait, Iraq] etc. This is the same for other complains of non-Muslims 'interfering' in matters which Muslims considered are their sole right.


So my thesis is very sound, i.e.

1. Nature wise, 20% of humans [including Muslims] are inherently evil prone.
2. More than 55% of the 6,236 of the Quran verses has evil laden elements [of various degrees], thererfore Islam-in-part is inherently evil.
3. The Quran is the core and central authority of Islam.
4. The combination of 1-3 inspire SOME in 1 to commit terrible evils and violence.
5. Therefore Islam is partly to be blamed for all the terrible evils and violence committed by SOME Muslims.
If Muslims & humanity acknowledge the above, SOME of the evil prone Muslims will continue to wreck havoc with terrible evils and violence on non-Muslims and even Muslims in the future.


While we have to tolerate the evils of the evil-prone Muslims [not all], nevertheless I am optimistic Islam as a religion will implode by its own flimsy falsehoods and primal psychological drives in the longer run, it is just a matter of time.
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Old 11-27-2015, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
When I pointed out your shortcomings you accuse me of hijacking this thread.


What I have posted is directly related to your OP, 'The Future of Islam' and more so because I am discussing it from the very fundamental and ultimate root causes level.


In your point 4, you stated;
4)-The terrorist groups that keep attacking non-muslims countries and the muslims as well : Syria , Iraq , Libya...Hundreds of victims are registred in these countries which go unnoticed because the media keep their focus dircted toward attacks on Developped Western countries.
So my posting re 'violence' is very relevant to the OP.
Note your OP 'The Future of Islam' is a very open ended topic, thus any thing related to Islam and its future is relevant.

There are various interpretations of the term 'jihad' by various Muslims.
What is most critical is how the 20% of evil prone [pool of 300 million] Muslims construe, interpret and act out the term 'jihad'.
Now, who are you and the rest of Muslims [so called moderates] who are fallible humans to tell the jihadists they are wrong in their interpretations of the concept of jihad based on their sincere interpretation* of the Quranic verses.
*No jihadists [most and their clergy are very pious] would NOT dare to harbor any deliberate intention to twist the verses in the Quran and Hadith for their selfish interests as they know full well if they act on their own will, they will surely go to hell.


The problem and the fact are there are no central authority and Allah is not available in the human court to decide who is right and who is wrong. A Muslim can only find out the final decision on Judgment Day when his Sijjin or Iliyin is read out.


Btw, I find the term 'jihad' is merely a placeholder and convenient term for a more serious doctrine of Islam, i.e. striving for the cause of Allah and Islam.
Per the Quran, human beings are created by Allah to serve Allah, i.e. to protect the sanctity of Allah and his religion [& deen] with their wealth and their lives if the religion is wronged.
22:39. Sanction [permission authorised] is given unto those [Muslims] who fight because they [Muslims] have been wronged [by infidels and hypocrites]; and Allah is indeed Able to give them [Muslims] victory;

Another problem is the term 'wronged' is ambiguous and when taken to the extreme e.g. the 'drawing of cartoons of Muhammad' is 'wronged'. The synonymous terms are 'mischiefs,' 'corruption,' and the likes which allow for Muslims [the evil prone] to wage war [for the cause of Allah and Islam] on non-Muslims on any thing they felt insulted and wronged based on their own low self esteem and high sensitivity.


Any thing that non-Muslims interacted with Muslims matters and where the Muslims do not feel comfortable is interpreted as wrong. e.g. the US is regarded as the great Satan even when it is helping another group of Muslims [Saudi, Kuwait, Iraq] etc. This is the same for other complains of non-Muslims 'interfering' in matters which Muslims considered are their sole right.


So my thesis is very sound, i.e.
1. Nature wise, 20% of humans [including Muslims] are inherently evil prone.
2. More than 55% of the 6,236 of the Quran verses has evil laden elements [of various degrees], thererfore Islam-in-part is inherently evil.
3. The Quran is the core and central authority of Islam.
4. The combination of 1-3 inspire SOME in 1 to commit terrible evils and violence.
5. Therefore Islam is partly to be blamed for all the terrible evils and violence committed by SOME Muslims.
If Muslims & humanity acknowledge the above, SOME of the evil prone Muslims will continue to wreck havoc with terrible evils and violence on non-Muslims and even Muslims in the future.


While we have to tolerate the evils of the evil-prone Muslims [not all], nevertheless I am optimistic Islam as a religion will implode by its own flimsy falsehoods and primal psychological drives in the longer run, it is just a matter of time.
Your thesis would probably be equally valid as:

1. Nature wise, 20% of humans are inherently evil prone.
2. More than 55% of human survival has evil laden elements [of various degrees], therefore survival in-part is inherently evil.
3. Human Survival is the core and central authority of Human existence
4. The combination of 1-3 inspire SOME in 1 to commit terrible evils and violence.
5. Therefore Human survival is partly to be blamed for all the terrible evils and violence committed by SOME Humans.

I used the word probably as I do not know of any study having been done, but from personal experience I consider at least 90% of my military survival training to have been evil/violence laden if read as stand alone statements.

I doubt very much there would be any significant reduction in world violence if Islam or even all religions, were to vanish with no trace or human memory of it. The only difference would be some people would have to find new justifications for it.
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Old 11-27-2015, 11:26 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,584,535 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Your thesis would probably be equally valid as:

1. Nature wise, 20% of humans are inherently evil prone.
2. More than 55% of human survival has evil laden elements [of various degrees], therefore survival in-part is inherently evil.
3. Human Survival is the core and central authority of Human existence
4. The combination of 1-3 inspire SOME in 1 to commit terrible evils and violence.
5. Therefore Human survival is partly to be blamed for all the terrible evils and violence committed by SOME Humans.

I used the word probably as I do not know of any study having been done, but from personal experience I consider at least 90% of my military survival training to have been evil/violence laden if read as stand alone statements.
I can agree in one sense but your narrative is wrongly presented. I will re-arrange it as follows;


A. All Evils in the World [Main Topic]
1. Nature wise, 20% of humans are inherently evil prone.
2. Therefore Human survival is partly to be blamed for all the terrible evils and violence committed by SOME Humans. [this need more details]
3. All the Terrible Evils and Violence can be categorized as follows;
http://www.city-data.com/forum/42089127-post15.html
4. One critical evil amongst all evils is Islam-Inspired-Violence.
[refer to the above link for an analysis of all evils.


B. [sub-topic] Secular and Religious related Violence [off topic]
Details to be elaborated elsewhere.


C. [Sub-Topic] Islam-Inspired Violence [On Topic re OP]
5. From 1, 20% of Muslims [300 millions] are potentially evil prone.
6. More than 55% of human survival has evil laden elements [of various degrees], therefore survival in-part is inherently evil.
7. The Quran is the core and central authority of Human existence
8. The combination of 1-3 inspire SOME in 1 to commit terrible evils and violence.
9. Therefore Islam is partly to be blamed for all the terrible evils and violence committed by SOME Muslims.

I am confident you cannot dispute the above nor provide any effective counters to it.



Thus humanity must address conclusion 9 critically and ASAP in tandem with ALL other types of Evils as I had categorized here.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/42089127-post15.html


Quote:
I doubt very much there would be any significant reduction in world violence if Islam or even all religions, were to vanish with no trace or human memory of it. The only difference would be some people would have to find new justifications for it.
I know for sure the religious element in this statistics will be removed and whatever evil is associated with Islam will be zero;





When Islam is removed, no Malala [s] will be shot and there will be no other evils and violence committed in the name of Islam and Allah by SOME evil prone Muslims inspired by SOME evil laden verses in the Quran [& Hadiths, martial ethos of Muhammad].
Then the title of the above statistics will NOT be
"Islamic Terrorists have carried out more than x-number of deadly terror attacks since 911 "
rather it will be;
"Terrorists have carried out more than x-number of deadly terror attacks since 911 "

No doubt there will still be tribal, territorial and other secular related evils and violence but they will be secular based and localized like the present Ukraine conflict as oppose the present Palestinian issue where Muslims around the world are inspired by their religion [Islam] to show contempt for Jews and those who are aligned to them. From here they are inspired by Quranic verses to various evils and violence as a cause to help their Muslim brothers and sisters who are deemed oppressed by non-Muslims in Palestine or anywhere else in the world.


Therefore Islam is partly to be blamed for all the terrible evils and violence committed by SOME evil prone Muslims.

Last edited by Continuum; 11-27-2015 at 11:34 PM..
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