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Old 11-30-2015, 09:29 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
While all the surah were revealed during the month of Ramadan it was over 23 Ramadans taking 23 years to complete.

Yes the message of the Qur'an is clear for all people and that Message is:There is only one God(swt) who has no partners. equals or progeny and only he is to be worshiped.

That is the message of the Qur'an and is summerized in Surat 1 and 112

1. Surah Al-Fatihah
In the Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, Most Merciful

1. In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
2. All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).
3. The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
4. The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)
5. You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything).
6. Guide us to the Straight Way
7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger , nor of those who went astray

112. Surah Al-Ikhlaas or At-Tauhid (The Purity)
In the Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, Most Merciful

1. Say (O Muhammad ()): "He is Allah, (the) One.
2. "Allah-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).
3. "He begets not, nor was He begotten;
4. "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him."

All the remainder of the Qur'an is the reason and proof why we should follow that message.
Yup, summit to this evil nonsense or face hate and rape and torture and slaughter at the hands of Muslims and then eternal horrible torture at the hands of allah. Just like I said in the first place.

But those who disbelieve and deny Our signs - those are the companions of Hellfire.....Every time they want to get out of Hellfire from anguish, they will be returned to it, and [it will be said], "Taste the punishment of the Burning Fire!"...."Seize him and drag him into the midst of the Hellfire,.....
And for the disbelievers is a painful punishment......they will have a painful punishment......Allah is Severe in punishment.....surely, Allah is Severe in punishment.... those who disbelieve in the verses of Allah will have a severe punishment, and Allah is exalted in Might, the Owner of Retribution......And Allah is Severe in punishment....And as for those who disbelieved, I will punish them with a severe punishment in this world and the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers.".....they will have a painful punishment...... there will be a painful punishment....And those will have a great punishment...... and for them is a great punishment.....and for them is a painful punishment.....for them is a humiliating punishment..."Taste the punishment of the Burning Fire.... and for them is a painful punishment.....Allah will put him into the Fire to abide eternally therein, and he will have a humiliating punishment.


And on and on for hundreds and hundreds of verses as guidance to mankind for all time regarding disbelievers
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Old 11-30-2015, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
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Quote:
I think the reason you do not want many verses posted is that taken together they create a landslide of hate and violence.
"landslide" that is a very nice and apt metaphor.
Give me an idea to extend it to a "tsunami."


Woodrow and many Muslims would often demand we present verse by verse and their excuse will be one got to read the previous and following 5 verses to deflect and numb the violence element.


I am aware many of the stand alone verses are by themselves represent violence and evil explicitly but when all these 3000++ evil laden verses [of various degrees] are taken together in context of the whole of the Quran, Islam and humanity, they really create a very catastrophic [of the worst kine] landslide on land and a tsunami from the sea. The reality of evidence of such evils is so glaring.
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Old 12-02-2015, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
"landslide" that is a very nice and apt metaphor.
Give me an idea to extend it to a "tsunami."


Woodrow and many Muslims would often demand we present verse by verse and their excuse will be one got to read the previous and following 5 verses to deflect and numb the violence element.


I am aware many of the stand alone verses are by themselves represent violence and evil explicitly but when all these 3000++ evil laden verses [of various degrees] are taken together in context of the whole of the Quran, Islam and humanity, they really create a very catastrophic [of the worst kine] landslide on land and a tsunami from the sea. The reality of evidence of such evils is so glaring.
I some times doubt if many non-Muslim ever read a full discourse and understand that is the thought, not any of the separate ayyats that make the Discourse. That is what I mean about taking an ayyat in context. First one needs to understant what it means as related to the Discoure. A help with that is to learn when, where and to whom the discourse was directed to. Then to see if the Surah contains one or multiple thoughts and how the discourse relates to the context of the Surah. Then next learn how the Surah relates to the Basic Message of the Qur'an. The Qur'an as I have stated many times has one basic central Message. Which is "There is only one God(swt) and only he is to be worshiped."
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Old 12-02-2015, 12:59 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I some times doubt if many non-Muslim ever read a full discourse and understand that is the thought, not any of the separate ayyats that make the Discourse. That is what I mean about taking an ayyat in context. First one needs to understant what it means as related to the Discoure. A help with that is to learn when, where and to whom the discourse was directed to. Then to see if the Surah contains one or multiple thoughts and how the discourse relates to the context of the Surah. Then next learn how the Surah relates to the Basic Message of the Qur'an. The Qur'an as I have stated many times has one basic central Message. Which is "There is only one God(swt) and only he is to be worshiped."
There is only one God(swt) and only he is to be worshiped.....or.....how many hundreds of times are disbelievers threatened with eternal torture?

And I guess part of the worship is to rape captive women front of their husbands?

The Apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives.
Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you except those (captives, slaves) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I some times doubt if many non-Muslim ever read a full discourse and understand that is the thought, not any of the separate ayyats that make the Discourse. That is what I mean about taking an ayyat in context. First one needs to understant what it means as related to the Discoure. A help with that is to learn when, where and to whom the discourse was directed to. Then to see if the Surah contains one or multiple thoughts and how the discourse relates to the context of the Surah. Then next learn how the Surah relates to the Basic Message of the Qur'an. The Qur'an as I have stated many times has one basic central Message. Which is "There is only one God(swt) and only he is to be worshiped."
There is a range of approaches by non-Muslims and even Muslims in understanding and interpreting the Quran and other texts.


Personally I interpret the Quran and all other religious texts within the wider contexts of reality and drill down [applying philosophical criticism and justifications] to the various sub-contexts.


Here is the framework I use;


1. Reality is all that exists.
2. Humans exists.
3. Humans [psychologically] are infected with an existential desperations and will seek out any thing that will relieve them of this subliminal terror within.
4. Religion [theistic and non-theistic] is the most effective means to relieve the subliminal terror and psychological pains.
5. There exists a small group of humans [who experienced various psychosis] and
......a. are genuinely concern for humanity or
......b. out to exploit this subliminal terror by claiming to be an agent of god of some manner.
6. I believe the Quran is written by a person within [b] above.
7. The fact is it is impossible for God to exists as real.


Thus when I read the Quran I first view each verse in the context of its surrounding idea, then the chapter and in the context of the whole Quran while at the same time taking into account the framework comprising 1-7 above.


The most critical context to take note is a Muslims is an adherent of Islam who has entered into a covenant with Allah.
A Muslim therefore has to comply fully with the terms and conditions of the covenant which are solely stipulated in the Quran MGA-610 and no where else.
Thus when we read the Quran, the story [while it helped] behind the verses are not the most critical. What is most critical are the eternal principles, doctrines, terms and conditions that are relevant to the covenant a Muslims has entered into with Allah.
Non-compliance with these stipulated eternal principles, doctrines, terms and conditions may hinder a Muslims from reaching the final destination of heaven laden with sensual superlatives.


For example if Allah dictated in the Quran, Muslims must 'cast terror' [3:151 etc.] onto non-Muslims in a counter to their threats, then Muslims in the present must cast terrors on non-Muslims as and when there is a threat to Islam.


The inherent problem is in the whole context of the Quran, the existence of kuffar [kafara, infidels] itself is deemed as a threat to Islam. The slightest misperceived misdeed, offense and whatever dislikes are felt as threats to Islam by the majority of very sensitive brainwashed Muslims., e.g. drawing of cartoons, promotion of education, arts, music, foreign soldiers in 'Islamic' Nations for whatever the purpose [even for good].
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Old 12-03-2015, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
There is a range of approaches by non-Muslims and even Muslims in understanding and interpreting the Quran and other texts.


Personally I interpret the Quran and all other religious texts within the wider contexts of reality and drill down [applying philosophical criticism and justifications] to the various sub-contexts.


Here is the framework I use;


1. Reality is all that exists.
2. Humans exists.
3. Humans [psychologically] are infected with an existential desperations and will seek out any thing that will relieve them of this subliminal terror within.
4. Religion [theistic and non-theistic] is the most effective means to relieve the subliminal terror and psychological pains.
5. There exists a small group of humans [who experienced various psychosis] and
......a. are genuinely concern for humanity or
......b. out to exploit this subliminal terror by claiming to be an agent of god of some manner.
6. I believe the Quran is written by a person within [b] above.
7. The fact is it is impossible for God to exists as real.


Thus when I read the Quran I first view each verse in the context of its surrounding idea, then the chapter and in the context of the whole Quran while at the same time taking into account the framework comprising 1-7 above.


The most critical context to take note is a Muslims is an adherent of Islam who has entered into a covenant with Allah.
A Muslim therefore has to comply fully with the terms and conditions of the covenant which are solely stipulated in the Quran MGA-610 and no where else.
Thus when we read the Quran, the story [while it helped] behind the verses are not the most critical. What is most critical are the eternal principles, doctrines, terms and conditions that are relevant to the covenant a Muslims has entered into with Allah.
Non-compliance with these stipulated eternal principles, doctrines, terms and conditions may hinder a Muslims from reaching the final destination of heaven laden with sensual superlatives.


For example if Allah dictated in the Quran, Muslims must 'cast terror' [3:151 etc.] onto non-Muslims in a counter to their threats, then Muslims in the present must cast terrors on non-Muslims as and when there is a threat to Islam.


The inherent problem is in the whole context of the Quran, the existence of kuffar [kafara, infidels] itself is deemed as a threat to Islam. The slightest misperceived misdeed, offense and whatever dislikes are felt as threats to Islam by the majority of very sensitive brainwashed Muslims., e.g. drawing of cartoons, promotion of education, arts, music, foreign soldiers in 'Islamic' Nations for whatever the purpose [even for good].
I think you and I have very different view regarding this:

Quote:
The most critical context to take note is a Muslims is an adherent of Islam who has entered into a covenant with Allah.
A Muslim therefore has to comply fully with the terms and conditions of the covenant which are solely stipulated in the Quran MGA-610 and no where else.
Thus when we read the Quran, the story [while it helped] behind the verses are not the most critical. What is most critical are the eternal principles, doctrines, terms and conditions that are relevant to the covenant a Muslims has entered into with Allah.
Non-compliance with these stipulated eternal principles, doctrines, terms and conditions may hinder a Muslims from reaching the final destination of heaven laden with sensual superlatives.
I did not enter Islam, I practice Islam, which is an action. My covenent with Allaah(swt) is personal between him and myself with no intermediaries. I find the Qur'an to be a book of the Whys and origins not commandments of how.

I find that my covenant with Allaah(swt) is that I will worship Him alone and that the method of worshiping him is to follow the 5 pillars of Islam to the best of my ability and knowledge.
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Old 12-03-2015, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I think you and I have very different view regarding this:

I did not enter Islam, I practice Islam, which is an action. My covenent with Allaah(swt) is personal between him and myself with no intermediaries. I find the Qur'an to be a book of the Whys and origins not commandments of how.

I find that my covenant with Allaah(swt) is that I will worship Him alone and that the method of worshiping him is to follow the 5 pillars of Islam to the best of my ability and knowledge.
I am not too bothered about you being a Muslim. Personally I think you are being-more-human than being-Muslim because you act more humanely in accordance to basic human rights and you compromise many of Allah's principles as expected in the Quran


Logically, rationally and by the Quran, a Muslims must comply with all the terms and conditions the Muslims has made* with Allah. * note the phrase 'made with,' 'enter into,' 'practice Islam' 'convert to Muslim' all represent the same concept of an agreement between two parties, i.e. a Muslim and Allah.


What I am more concern as a citizen of humanity are the following;
1. The more than 55% of verses in the Quran that contain evil laden elements.
2. the 20% of evil prone Muslims from within 1.5 billion Muslims. That is a pool of 300 million evil prone Muslims which is very frightening.
It is already a reality where SOME evil prone Muslims are influenced and inspired by the evil laden elements in the Quran [& Hadiths, martial ethos of Islam, etc.].
Worst there is no central authority to decide who is right and who is wrong. In any case since the Quran is two-face [a double-edge-blade], the jihadists do not acknowledge their acts are sinful since such acts are sanctioned by Allah.


Worst still the in the whole context of the Quran the Kafir [kafara, kuffar, infidels] is condemned with contempt, abhorrence, detest, dehumanized as apes, swines, cattles, the worst of creatures & all sorts of demeaning words, thus becoming easy fodder for SOME evil prone Muslims to kill non-Muslims without guilt but as sanctioned by Allah.


I suggest you remove your blinkers, acknowledge the above facts and change your views to be in alignment with reality.
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Old 12-19-2015, 06:29 PM
 
6 posts, read 8,756 times
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This guy is a known salafi extremist wack. His views don't represent my views or any mainstream non-salafi views on Islam.
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