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Old 11-28-2015, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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The Worst Muslim Is Better Than The Best Kaafir.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_feMR2UmugU




The above the sort of false arrogance the Quran mislead many [not all] Muslims.
Abu Mussab Wajdi Akkari is quoting from the Quran and because the Quran is a double-edged blade, he is not wrong from his perspective.


Any one can counter Akkari's views?
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Old 11-28-2015, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Islam is Superior as supported by verses in the Quran



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpwBEJ0HEak
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Old 11-29-2015, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Simple fact of life. Virtually every person believes their belief or disbelief correct. Even an Atheist believes atheism is correct and theism is in error.

A person is not going to hold on to any belief they do not consider to be superior than another belief.

I am Muslim because I have come to the conclusion that Islam is superior to every other belief or disbelief I have encountered, simply because it is correct.

I do not believe that makes me as a person superior to a non-Muslim. I am still a human being, still have faults and strengths like everyone else. Still have good and bad charecteristics, like everyone else. Still face the same trials of life like everyone else. While I believe my belief is superior (because it is the true and final revelation), I am not superior.
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Old 11-29-2015, 08:19 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Simple fact of life. Virtually every person believes their belief or disbelief correct. Even an Atheist believes atheism is correct and theism is in error.

A person is not going to hold on to any belief they do not consider to be superior than another belief.

I am Muslim because I have come to the conclusion that Islam is superior to every other belief or disbelief I have encountered, simply because it is correct.

I do not believe that makes me as a person superior to a non-Muslim. I am still a human being, still have faults and strengths like everyone else. Still have good and bad charecteristics, like everyone else. Still face the same trials of life like everyone else. While I believe my belief is superior (because it is the true and final revelation), I am not superior.
Belief is not necessarily reality. Beliefs do not make something real. The entire world can believe the earth is flat. That will not make the earth flat. Reality exists apart from our beliefs.

Human's have a tool of survival called the brain. How well we use that tool will, in large part, determine how well we live. Logic, induction, deduction, rationality.....they are all good tools that help connect us with reality. Our senses are the basis of observing reality. Faith is simply bypassing our tool of survival. Faith designates blind acceptance of a certain ideational content which is induced by feeling in the absence of evidence or proof. What is interesting is that no one really lives as if a god existed. They claim the supernatural exists, but follow natural laws.

In reality, the Quran is hateful towards disbelievers. The verses are right there for all to read. In reality, the Quran demanded violence toward disbelievers who refused to submit to Allah. It's right there in the Quran and no amount of howling about context and translation changes it. Same with the hadiths and Muhammed. There is overwhelming evidence in the strong hadiths that Muhammed did much evil.

There are many beliefs like Islam that are faith based. But, A is A. There is no matrix. There is no supernatural. Faith and force are corollaries. Every period of history dominated by mysticism, was a period of statism, of dictatorship, of tyranny. And that is what Islam is about.
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Old 11-29-2015, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Belief is not necessarily reality. Beliefs do not make something real. The entire world can believe the earth is flat. That will not make the earth flat. Reality exists apart from our beliefs.

Human's have a tool of survival called the brain. How well we use that tool will, in large part, determine how well we live. Logic, induction, deduction, rationality.....they are all good tools that help connect us with reality. Our senses are the basis of observing reality. Faith is simply bypassing our tool of survival. Faith designates blind acceptance of a certain ideational content which is induced by feeling in the absence of evidence or proof. What is interesting is that no one really lives as if a god existed. They claim the supernatural exists, but follow natural laws.

In reality, the Quran is hateful towards disbelievers. The verses are right there for all to read. In reality, the Quran demanded violence toward disbelievers who refused to submit to Allah. It's right there in the Quran and no amount of howling about context and translation changes it. Same with the hadiths and Muhammed. There is overwhelming evidence in the strong hadiths that Muhammed did much evil.

There are many beliefs like Islam that are faith based. But, A is A. There is no matrix. There is no supernatural. Faith and force are corollaries. Every period of history dominated by mysticism, was a period of statism, of dictatorship, of tyranny. And that is what Islam is about.
Quote one and just one ayyat from the Qur'an you believe demands violence to disbelievers who refuse to submit to Allaah(swt)

Do not confound and confuse the issue by posting a large list each requiring a long explanation. Just pick one ayyat and I will show why it does not demand violence to all disbelievers.

You might be able to find some that relate to a specific group at a specific time regarding a specific event but there are none that command us to do violence against all disbelievers.
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Old 11-29-2015, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Simple fact of life. Virtually every person believes their belief or disbelief correct. Even an Atheist believes atheism is correct and theism is in error.

A person is not going to hold on to any belief they do not consider to be superior than another belief.

I am Muslim because I have come to the conclusion that Islam is superior to every other belief or disbelief I have encountered, simply because it is correct.

I do not believe that makes me as a person superior to a non-Muslim. I am still a human being, still have faults and strengths like everyone else. Still have good and bad charecteristics, like everyone else. Still face the same trials of life like everyone else. While I believe my belief is superior (because it is the true and final revelation), I am not superior.
Note atheism - I prefer not-a-theist - is not a belief per se.
Atheism to theism is like being 'awake' and 'in-coma' [not awake]. If you are awake, then you are not in coma [not awake] and vice versa.
Atheists believe in all sort of things and do not have a belief in other things of which one such is theism.
As a non-theist, however I do believe why theists believe in God is because of psychological reasons relating to an existential dilemma. I also rely on philosophical, scientific and other knowledge to explain why God is an impossibility. Other atheists may rely on other arguments.
So there is no one ideology that represent atheism but merely that atheists DO NOT have a belief in God like theists do.


It is very natural of humans to be driven by the "one-up" impulse which is in one way good for the progress of humanity. This 'one-up' egoistic impulse motivate the various Nobel Prize winners and other discoverers and pioneers of knowledge and other positive aspects of human life.

However,
This "one-up" [superior drive] is also a double-edged blade and it can cut both ways. It is negative to the well being of humanity when it has evil laden elements and motives. Note Hitler's Nazism and other ideologies that has evil laden elements. Note the negative superiority complex of a train of despots, dictators and other in every aspect of life that is detrimental to the well being of humanity.


Now, I have demonstrated Islam-in-part[not wholly] is inherently evil and comprised evil laden elements.
Because Islam has evil laden elements, the idea of superiority complex [like inferiority complex] should not be imbued into a religion like Islam.
In fact all religions should not have any sense of superiority due to the inherent element of existential desperations within all religions.


Thus when such superiority complex is imbued into the psyche of SOME Muslims like the one in the OP [most Muslims are infected with this superiority complex], this is an additional factor that contribute to Islam-in-part being evil and inspiring SOME evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence in the world.


I am not concern about you personally but Islam and evil prone Muslims [a potential pool of 300 millions, could be more].
It is a fact and very unfortunate that the Quran [Hadiths and Sira] has elements that promote a dangerous superiority complex within a religion [way of life] which can inspire SOME evil prone to commit evil and violence.
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Old 11-30-2015, 07:18 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Quote one and just one ayyat from the Qur'an you believe demands violence to disbelievers who refuse to submit to Allaah(swt)

Do not confound and confuse the issue by posting a large list each requiring a long explanation. Just pick one ayyat and I will show why it does not demand violence to all disbelievers.

You might be able to find some that relate to a specific group at a specific time regarding a specific event but there are none that command us to do violence against all disbelievers.
I think the reason you do not want many verses posted is that taken together they create a landslide of hate and violence.

Here's the thing. You claim that there is this unbelievably amazing superbeing that CREATED THE UNIVERSE!!!! Do you know what that means? Billions of stars, everything that exists....all knowing and all powerful. This being would be so far from anything we could comprehend....think of the size of the universe. I mean this is really something!! I cannot find words to describe this!!!!

So you think this superbeing exists...and now you want to tell me that events in the book he wrote as guidance (his direct words) involve only "a specific group at a specific time regarding a specific event" and should be ignored by the rest of mankind????

Nonsense! Right off in the Quran we read:
"This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah"

This quran is "a guidance for those conscious of Allah." Direct from the creator of the whole darned universe!!

But you want to drop this context.

Why would Allah tell the stories of hate and violence if not for guidance? And when reading the Quran, the guidance to hate and violence start right off in Chapter 2:

"Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. (Actually, you yourself proved this to be a lie.)
Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.
And of the people are some who say, "We believe in Allah and the Last Day," but they are not believers.
They [think to] deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive [it] not.
In their hearts is a disease (of doubt and hypocrisy) and Allah has increased their disease. A painful torment is theirs because they used to tell lies.
And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."
Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.
And when it is said to them (hypocrites): "Believe as the people (followers of Muhammad Peace be upon him , Al-Ansar and Al-Muhajirun) have believed," they say: "Shall we believe as the fools have believed?" Verily, they are the fools, but they know not....[But] Allah mocks them and prolongs them in their transgression [while] they wander blindly."

Right off the bat this CREATOR OF THE WHOLE DARNED UNIVERSE is setting the stage for hate. Bragging about how he will terribly punish those who do not believe in him. Mocking them. There are hundreds of verses about allah and his terrible torture of disbelievers.

What you want to do is drop this context.

Can YOU show me verses saying that these verses of hate and violence are in the Quran as guidance of what NOT to do!!!!!!!??????

In fact, you think disbelievers deserve this endless torture from Allah. I have a news flash. Torture is violence.

So every stinking verse of violence in the Quran is guidance....guidance to hate and kill and rape.

"Those who conceal the clear (Signs) We have sent down, and the Guidance, after We have made it clear for the people in the Book,-on them shall be Allah's curse, and the curse of those entitled to curse,-"

"Lo! Those who hide the proofs and the guidance which We revealed, after We had made it clear to mankind in the Scripture: such are accursed of Allah and accursed of those who have the power to curse."

In fact, I think you are trying to hide Allah's guidance to mankind, pretending that things in the quran apply only "to a specific group at a specific time regarding a specific event". I do not think Allah would be so small minded.

"Verily, those who conceal the clear proofs, evidences and the guidance, which We have sent down, after We have made it clear for the people in the Book, they are the ones cursed by Allah and cursed by the cursers."

"Before, as guidance for the people. And He revealed the Qur'an. Indeed, those who disbelieve in the verses of Allah will have a severe punishment, and Allah is exalted in Might, the Owner of Retribution."

"The month of Ramadan in which was revealed the Quran, a guidance for mankind and clear proofs for the guidance and the criterion (between right and wrong)."


.
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Old 11-30-2015, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
I think the reason you do not want many verses posted is that taken together they create a landslide of hate and violence.

Here's the thing. You claim that there is this unbelievably amazing superbeing that CREATED THE UNIVERSE!!!! Do you know what that means? Billions of stars, everything that exists....all knowing and all powerful. This being would be so far from anything we could comprehend....think of the size of the universe. I mean this is really something!! I cannot find words to describe this!!!!

So you think this superbeing exists...and now you want to tell me that events in the book he wrote as guidance (his direct words) involve only "a specific group at a specific time regarding a specific event" and should be ignored by the rest of mankind????

Nonsense! Right off in the Quran we read:
"This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah"

This quran is "a guidance for those conscious of Allah." Direct from the creator of the whole darned universe!!

But you want to drop this context.

Why would Allah tell the stories of hate and violence if not for guidance? And when reading the Quran, the guidance to hate and violence start right off in Chapter 2:

"Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. (Actually, you yourself proved this to be a lie.)
Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.
And of the people are some who say, "We believe in Allah and the Last Day," but they are not believers.
They [think to] deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive [it] not.
In their hearts is a disease (of doubt and hypocrisy) and Allah has increased their disease. A painful torment is theirs because they used to tell lies.
And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."
Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.
And when it is said to them (hypocrites): "Believe as the people (followers of Muhammad Peace be upon him , Al-Ansar and Al-Muhajirun) have believed," they say: "Shall we believe as the fools have believed?" Verily, they are the fools, but they know not....[But] Allah mocks them and prolongs them in their transgression [while] they wander blindly."

Right off the bat this CREATOR OF THE WHOLE DARNED UNIVERSE is setting the stage for hate. Bragging about how he will terribly punish those who do not believe in him. Mocking them. There are hundreds of verses about allah and his terrible torture of disbelievers.

What you want to do is drop this context.

Can YOU show me verses saying that these verses of hate and violence are in the Quran as guidance of what NOT to do!!!!!!!??????

In fact, you think disbelievers deserve this endless torture from Allah. I have a news flash. Torture is violence.

So every stinking verse of violence in the Quran is guidance....guidance to hate and kill and rape.

"Those who conceal the clear (Signs) We have sent down, and the Guidance, after We have made it clear for the people in the Book,-on them shall be Allah's curse, and the curse of those entitled to curse,-"

"Lo! Those who hide the proofs and the guidance which We revealed, after We had made it clear to mankind in the Scripture: such are accursed of Allah and accursed of those who have the power to curse."

In fact, I think you are trying to hide Allah's guidance to mankind, pretending that things in the quran apply only "to a specific group at a specific time regarding a specific event". I do not think Allah would be so small minded.

"Verily, those who conceal the clear proofs, evidences and the guidance, which We have sent down, after We have made it clear for the people in the Book, they are the ones cursed by Allah and cursed by the cursers."

"Before, as guidance for the people. And He revealed the Qur'an. Indeed, those who disbelieve in the verses of Allah will have a severe punishment, and Allah is exalted in Might, the Owner of Retribution."

"The month of Ramadan in which was revealed the Quran, a guidance for mankind and clear proofs for the guidance and the criterion (between right and wrong)."


.
OK we will look closely at Surah 2. (Although many people call each Surah a chapter, they are more like books) Surah 2 consists of 10 different Discourse (chapters) each revealed at different times, the last Discourse was actually the first revealed in Surah 2

Looking at the The First discourse in the compilation is ayyats 1-20 and the main message of the Chapter being mankind will divide into 3 main groups, Believers, Disbelievers and hypocrite.

The entire Surah was addressed to the Jews and the audience that first heard it were Jews. It essentially how Judaism is the path to Islam and much of it relates to the Torah.
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Old 11-30-2015, 08:48 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
OK we will look closely at Surah 2. (Although many people call each Surah a chapter, they are more like books) Surah 2 consists of 10 different Discourse (chapters) each revealed at different times, the last Discourse was actually the first revealed in Surah 2

Looking at the The First discourse in the compilation is ayyats 1-20 and the main message of the Chapter being mankind will divide into 3 main groups, Believers, Disbelievers and hypocrite.

The entire Surah was addressed to the Jews and the audience that first heard it were Jews. It essentially how Judaism is the path to Islam and much of it relates to the Torah.
"The month of Ramadan in which was revealed the Quran, a guidance for mankind and clear proofs for the guidance and the criterion (between right and wrong)."
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Old 11-30-2015, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"The month of Ramadan in which was revealed the Quran, a guidance for mankind and clear proofs for the guidance and the criterion (between right and wrong)."

While all the surah were revealed during the month of Ramadan it was over 23 Ramadans taking 23 years to complete.

Yes the message of the Qur'an is clear for all people and that Message is:There is only one God(swt) who has no partners. equals or progeny and only he is to be worshiped.

That is the message of the Qur'an and is summerized in Surat 1 and 112

1. Surah Al-Fatihah
In the Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, Most Merciful

1. In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
2. All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).
3. The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
4. The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)
5. You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything).
6. Guide us to the Straight Way
7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger , nor of those who went astray

112. Surah Al-Ikhlaas or At-Tauhid (The Purity)
In the Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, Most Merciful

1. Say (O Muhammad ()): "He is Allah, (the) One.
2. "Allah-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).
3. "He begets not, nor was He begotten;
4. "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him."

All the remainder of the Qur'an is the reason and proof why we should follow that message.
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