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Old 11-28-2015, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,067 times
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Enraging the Kuffar will earn merit for the Muslim.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_fTRjtdky8


Abu Haleema quoted many verses from the Quran to support his point.
He mentioned verse 120 but cannot grasp which chapter he [talking to fast] was referring to.

From what I have read, here is a verse that support Muslims must be stern with infidels;
5:54. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Whoso of you [Muslims] becometh a renegade [apostate] from his religion [deenihi], (know that in his stead) Allah will bring a people [Muslims] whom He loveth and who love Him, humble toward believers, stern toward disbelievers [infidels], striving in the way of Allah and fearing not the blame of any blamer. Such is the grace of Allah which He giveth unto whom He will. Allah is All Embracing, All Knowing.


The other supporting verses are Muslims are not support to befriend [intimately] and befriend as partners, guidance, allies with infidels [non-Muslims].
3:118. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Take not for intimates [friends] others [infidels] than your own folk, who [these infidels] would spare no pains to ruin you [Muslims]; they [infidels] love to hamper you [Muslims].
Hatred is revealed by (the utterance of) their [infidels] mouths, but that which their [infidels] breasts hide is greater. We have made plain for you [Muslims] the revelations if ye will understand.
Hared? this is not the truth if Muhammad had understood what Jesus preached, i.e. 'love your enemies.'


Elsewhere there are many verses that forbid Muslims to be friends with non-Muslims;
4:144. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Choose not disbelievers [infidels] for (your) friends [awliyaa] in place of believers. Would ye give Allah a clear warrant against you?


Many Muslims e.g. Woodrow LI argues awliyaa do not refer to friend in the general sense, but it definitely refer to 'friend' in the wider sense. Taking all the many verses related to 'awliyaa' its whole context generate the impulse that Muslims should not be friend with non-Muslims. In any case 3:118 close the case for Muslims to be even intimate friend with non-Muslims.


Since Muslims [as stipulated in the Quran] are not be friends with non-Muslims, they can enrage them as sanctioned by the Quran.


The above is a principle that is extracted from the Quran as God's sanction.


However in practice we find many Muslims do not conform to that basic principle/rule of Allah for various reasons where they could pretend to befriend due to being the minority, for tagiyya reasons or they are genuinely friendly.


Where Muslims are genuinely friendly to non-Muslims, I believe they are doing it based on generic human principles of friendliness against the Quran dictate not to befriend non-Muslims. This is probably due to their ignorance of the basic principle of unfriendliness to infidels the Quran.


However when these ignorant Muslims are preached the basic principle of unfriendliness of infidels and convinced are going against Allah's words and will go to Hell, they will turn to be stern, aloof and cut off their friendship with the infidels.


Counter views to the above?


Views?
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Old 11-29-2015, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Enraging the Kuffar will earn merit for the Muslim.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_fTRjtdky8


Abu Haleema quoted many verses from the Quran to support his point.
He mentioned verse 120 but cannot grasp which chapter he [talking to fast] was referring to.

From what I have read, here is a verse that support Muslims must be stern with infidels;
5:54. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Whoso of you [Muslims] becometh a renegade [apostate] from his religion [deenihi], (know that in his stead) Allah will bring a people [Muslims] whom He loveth and who love Him, humble toward believers, stern toward disbelievers [infidels], striving in the way of Allah and fearing not the blame of any blamer. Such is the grace of Allah which He giveth unto whom He will. Allah is All Embracing, All Knowing.


The other supporting verses are Muslims are not support to befriend [intimately] and befriend as partners, guidance, allies with infidels [non-Muslims].
3:118. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Take not for intimates [friends] others [infidels] than your own folk, who [these infidels] would spare no pains to ruin you [Muslims]; they [infidels] love to hamper you [Muslims].
Hatred is revealed by (the utterance of) their [infidels] mouths, but that which their [infidels] breasts hide is greater. We have made plain for you [Muslims] the revelations if ye will understand.
Hared? this is not the truth if Muhammad had understood what Jesus preached, i.e. 'love your enemies.'


Elsewhere there are many verses that forbid Muslims to be friends with non-Muslims;
4:144. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Choose not disbelievers [infidels] for (your) friends [awliyaa] in place of believers. Would ye give Allah a clear warrant against you?


Many Muslims e.g. Woodrow LI argues awliyaa do not refer to friend in the general sense, but it definitely refer to 'friend' in the wider sense. Taking all the many verses related to 'awliyaa' its whole context generate the impulse that Muslims should not be friend with non-Muslims. In any case 3:118 close the case for Muslims to be even intimate friend with non-Muslims.


Since Muslims [as stipulated in the Quran] are not be friends with non-Muslims, they can enrage them as sanctioned by the Quran.


The above is a principle that is extracted from the Quran as God's sanction.


However in practice we find many Muslims do not conform to that basic principle/rule of Allah for various reasons where they could pretend to befriend due to being the minority, for tagiyya reasons or they are genuinely friendly.


Where Muslims are genuinely friendly to non-Muslims, I believe they are doing it based on generic human principles of friendliness against the Quran dictate not to befriend non-Muslims. This is probably due to their ignorance of the basic principle of unfriendliness to infidels the Quran.


However when these ignorant Muslims are preached the basic principle of unfriendliness of infidels and convinced are going against Allah's words and will go to Hell, they will turn to be stern, aloof and cut off their friendship with the infidels.


Counter views to the above?


Views?
Too many Muslims and non-Muslims do not understand the difference between Saddiq and Wali. There is nothing in the Qur'an that forbids us from having a non-Muslim as a saddiq (friend) We are cautioned to not have a non-Muslim as a Wali which is often misinterpreted as friend. Some
English meanings of Wali are

Parent
Governor
Employer
Religious leader
Mentor
Protector
Leader
Religious Instructor

Wali has quite a few meanings depending upon the content.

Quote:
However in practice we find many Muslims do not conform to that basic principle/rule of Allah for various reasons where they could pretend to befriend due to being the minority, for tagiyya reasons or they are genuinely friendly.
Taqqiya is a Shi'ite concept and even among them is frowned upon. It was allowed in the early days of the split when Sunni were killing Shi'ite.

Lying is considered a major sin in Islam and there are only 5 conditions under which it will not result in severe punishment
1. When forced under duress
2. When it is the only means to save a life
3. When a very minor lie is used to keep peace in the family. ie: You answer yes when the wife asks if you enjoyed supper and it tasted like mud.
4. To establish peace among nations--There are numerous conditions related to that and generally it will be the wrong thing to do.
5. To deceive the enemy when physically attacked during actual physical war.and you are not the aggressor.
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Old 11-29-2015, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,067 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Too many Muslims and non-Muslims do not understand the difference between Saddiq and Wali. There is nothing in the Qur'an that forbids us from having a non-Muslim as a saddiq (friend) We are cautioned to not have a non-Muslim as a Wali which is often misinterpreted as friend. Some English meanings of Wali are

Parent
Governor
Employer
Religious leader
Mentor
Protector
Leader
Religious Instructor

Wali has quite a few meanings depending upon the content.
Your bringing in a single term 'saddiq' to represent friend is misleading and deceptive.
If you look at the thesaurus below, there is a big list of synonyms for 'friend'.
Friend Synonyms, Friend Antonyms | Thesaurus.com


It is true in most cases we can infer 'wali' from their context as 'ally' 'partner' 'guardian' 'mentor' etc.
In many verses, the term wali is also refer to 'Allah' as if Allah need friends.


Therefore in the general context, 'wali' [friend] represent some sort of bonding, closeness, [psychologically, emotionally and contractually] and the likes, to another person or even Allah.


Similarly I am sure the Arabs would have used many other terms beside 'saddiq' to represent 'friend'. It could be some synonyms equivalent to those in the thesaurus above, e.g. pal, mate, buddy, chum, etc.


Therefore is it very deceptive of you to assert, just because the word 'saddiq' is not mentioned, therefore it does not refer to 'friend'.


I'll repeat again, in the general context, 'wali' [friend] represent some sort of bonding, closeness, [psychologically, emotionally and contractually] and the like to another person or even Allah.


In addition to the general sense of 'wali' above, 3:118 is very specific and refer to take not infidels as intimate friends.
3:118. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Take not for intimates [friends] others [infidels] than your own folk, who [these infidels] would spare no pains to ruin you [Muslims]; they [infidels] love to hamper you [Muslims].
Hatred is revealed by (the utterance of) their [infidels] mouths, but that which their [infidels] breasts hide is greater. We have made plain for you [Muslims] the revelations if ye will understand.
Whilst you many compromise and go against the dictates of the Quran to befriend infidels [good for you being more humane] there are more than 20% [=300 million] Muslims who do not agree with you and are very unfriendly towards non-Muslims. I don't need proof to show to you that such is the fact. You will find most Muslims [especially those with goatee, females with Niqab] are very unfriendly and aloof with non-Muslims because they believe non-Muslims are inferior as sh:t.


[/quote]Taqqiya is a Shi'ite concept and even among them is frowned upon. It was allowed in the early days of the split when Sunni were killing Shi'ite.[/quote]I agree with you on this point.


But why are Sunni killing Shi'ite minorities then and now?
Because SOME Sunni are inspired by the Quran [& Hadiths] to kill heretics.
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Old 11-29-2015, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,067 times
Reputation: 461
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