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Old 12-05-2015, 07:50 AM
 
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I think "But you just don't see it." is the core.

You can certainly find examples of virtually ANY point you care to make but until the idea becomes mainstream, until not just a few people but the vast majority speaks and acts with a common voice, will the idea become common knowledge.

Some positive action is no doubt taking place in the Muslim community but the negative actions of the radical few are all you see. Bad news makes headlines, good news is on page 3.

Maybe Islam just has poor marketing but then again the old adage is "actions speak louder than words" which brings me back to "if the Muslim faithful truly believed terrorism and groups like ISIS were actually giving their faith a bad name, they would be up in arms by the hundreds of thousands, or millions, to squash radicalism."
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Old 12-05-2015, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchoc View Post
I think "But you just don't see it." is the core.

You can certainly find examples of virtually ANY point you care to make but until the idea becomes mainstream, until not just a few people but the vast majority speaks and acts with a common voice, will the idea become common knowledge.

Some positive action is no doubt taking place in the Muslim community but the negative actions of the radical few are all you see. Bad news makes headlines, good news is on page 3.

Maybe Islam just has poor marketing but then again the old adage is "actions speak louder than words" which brings me back to "if the Muslim faithful truly believed terrorism and groups like ISIS were actually giving their faith a bad name, they would be up in arms by the hundreds of thousands, or millions, to squash radicalism."
Many people seem to be under the assumption Islam entails some sort of Membership in a religious organization. Which is far from accurate. We each practice Islam with no intermediaries between us an Allaah(swt) we do not join nor are members of Islam, We each perform the act of Islam to the best of our ability and Knowledge, we do not have membership in any religious group.

With that said you may understand why it is so difficult to get us organized. But even so we do frequently join together condemning terrorists and others that do evil in the name of Islam. but we seldom attract any media attention nor have any long lasting impression. The Media and perhaps the world does not want to know about peaceful Muslims.

Some things you probably never heard a word about:

Kamran Pasha's Blog » Blog Archive » The Big Lie About Muslim Silence on Terrorism

Muslims in Europe rally against extremist violence - CBS News

Muslims all over the world condemn terrorism, express solidarity with French - The Express Tribune

Picture | Not in Our Name: Muslims Unite Against Terrorism - ABC News

French Muslims join mourners to condemn Paris attacks at the Place de la République | Daily Mail Online

Muslim protest in Germany against jihadists | News | DW.COM | 19.09.2014

Muslims in Italy protest against terrorism • Wanted in Rome

Muslims Protest Against IS, Terror Attacks in France, Syria - The New Indian Express

Hundreds of Polish Muslims protest against terrorism and racism in Poznan - The China Post
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Old 12-05-2015, 12:01 PM
 
144 posts, read 107,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
I am more interested in the Quran and hadiths than a few photos.

Why do Muslims contiunue to be Muslims when they know that Muhammed raped a 9 year old child, let his men mass rape captive women (with allah's approval and in front of their husbands, or after seeing Muhammed and his men slaughter their husbands, fathers and sons), own and trade slaves, sell women, demand terrorism and hate.....WHY??

Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah. Quran 3:28
My dear Juju,

I don't want to talk to you again and i put you in my ignoring list.
This probably my last answer to you.

The reason is simple. It's not because i have no arguments.
It is because each time i answer your questions (who were already answered by other muslims members before me) they are ignored.

I believe that people who are honnest (and i think the majority are) will ask questions and accept the answers as sincere. Not accepting them as "the truth" but as explanations from our understanding and knowledge of our religion and of the different contexts (political, societal etc) that we may have.
This is a base for sane discussions even if at the end we disagree.

You don't understand we are not one block but have different views as other religions.
You don't understand that we don't know personally the extremists and don't always understand their motives.
And the worst of all, you take verses out of contexts and explain to us (to us !) what those verses mean and that they "should" be taking litteraly for any period/context.
We should believe every hadiths even if in contradiction with Quran and historical fact (!)
But on the contrary, they can't be accepted as the truth.
And of course, the extremists are always right and follow the "true path".
We are just "kind enought" to close our eyes on some verses/hadiths and we are a "minority".

But i'm an arab and lived all my life with muslims ! I know what i'm talking about, i'm not a minority.

If this is always the base for any discussion, so i prefer not to answer to people like you.
Because we muslims don't believe that the extremists are right, but some non-muslims like you (want us to) believe that.
Then after you say "you need to reform you religion !", "you need to speak against them !", "what did you do against them ?"
But when we say we disagree with them and explain why, you say "then you aren't "real muslims" ! "those people are real muslims".

Everyone know i'm talking about you Juju and Continuum.


So my Juju, you talk again about Aisha and her age.
But the thing is i gave you many links, that by the you asked for.

I explained to you that you should investigate about some things like the births of Aisha, knowing some importante dates like the Hijra, the revelation, etc ...
And i saw that in other threads you continue with that !
That's why i don't want to loose my time with you.

If there's any HONNEST people who want to know the opinion of many muslims concerning Aisha, here's the links :

Age of Aisha (ra) at time of marriage
AYESHA AGE THE MYTH OF* A PROVERBIAL WEDDING EXPOSED


To finish with (one of) your favorite verse that you don't want to leave alone.
There's 2 things here (already explained and explained and explained and so on) : the word's translation + the context.

"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers"


FRIEND IN ARABIC :

-Khalil = close friend
-Saheb = compagnion, partner like the "sahaba" known as the prophet's compagnon
-SADIQ = FRIEND

Saheb in colloquial arabic (dialect) is used to say "friend" we don't use "sadiq" because it's to "formal".
But if you watch an historical movie, a foreign serie or cartoons you'll hear "sadiq".[SIZE=2.2]
WALLY is sometimes translated as "friend" which is not false, but it's not the first sense of the word.
As like we saw it's "saddiq".

In the Quran you'll find other translations of this word like in surah 2.

2.182 But if he who oweth the debt is of low understanding, or weak, or unable himself to dictate, then let the guardian of his interests dictate in (terms of) equity.

Here the word is WALIWOHOO = his guardian

So "wally" can mean many things, but "friend" is not the top word translation for it in this context.
At that time they were our allies but the context changed it so it was said to muslims to no take them as allies.
It doesn't mean we can't be friends/allies with them forever.


This said, you forget that muslim (men) can marry non-muslim from abrahimic faith woman.
If they are part of the familly then they are our friends/allies.

As for our modern times, muslims have many non-muslims ALLIES some are good allies et some are bad allies.
Of course we also have many bad leaders.
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Old 12-05-2015, 04:32 PM
 
Location: US
27,976 posts, read 15,057,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fazira View Post
The majority of muslims are vitims in case you forget.

Maybe you should look at all the links given in other threads in particular by Woodrow Li.
But as always people never take the time to read them.

Maybe you should read/watch more appropriate Medias because you seem to not see what's really going on in the world.

A Skynews fan maybe.

Again today a bomb attack in lebanon. But as the victims are muslims who care ?

I guess as almost every day, irakies have probably died. Again muslims so unoticed.


As for the question asked concerning fighting terrorism it's a complicated thing.
First, the west should work more with the muslims (the Imams, the associations) and also close the internet pages who recrute people and promote extremism/terrorism (Twitter, Facebook etc).

They also should close the extremist chanels (via their satelites).

As for muslim countries, the governements have sometimes their interests with those extremists.
In general : they want to show that they (the dictators) are the only ones who can control the extremist groups.

The us allies (KSA, Qatar; Egypt etc) are those who gave money to those etremist groups, and the us and europeans did too.

Bashar was in part responsible of this and who is supporting him ? Russia. Again for their interests.
Al Maliki oppressed the Sunnis and let Daesh enter in Irak. Who put him in power ? USA.

To fight terrorism it must me done not by some protest in the streets or some Twitter announces or campaign in Facebook, internet like we have seen many.

This is not what will stop the terrorism. You should record that in your mind.
Do you remember the campaigns against terrorism, extremism, racism ? Was is effective ?


Who remember the letter of a hundred muslim theolocians to (against) Al Baghdadi ???

GO READ IT HERE IF YOU DIDN'T YET :

Letter to Baghdadi - Open Letter to BaghdadiOpen Letter to Baghdadi



THE CAMPAIGNS WHO DIDN'T SERVE UNFORTUNATELY, and who will be asked again and again to muslims.

Not in my name : https://www.google.fr/search?q=not+i...m7O4T4aomjodgH







Jews & muslims don't want to be ennemies : https://twitter.com/hashtag/jewsanda...usetobeenemies









Tsk, tsk...Leave it to the Media to try and make us think otherwise...
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Old 12-05-2015, 04:35 PM
 
Location: US
27,976 posts, read 15,057,939 times
Reputation: 1747
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
I am more interested in the Quran and hadiths than a few photos.

Why do Muslims contiunue to be Muslims when they know that Muhammed raped a 9 year old child, let his men mass rape captive women (with allah's approval and in front of their husbands, or after seeing Muhammed and his men slaughter their husbands, fathers and sons), own and trade slaves, sell women, demand terrorism and hate.....WHY??

Why would someone that is good want to submit to such evil and hate and perversion?

Muslims are taught to fool the infidels. Could that be happening here? I know Muslims who were so nice to me...until I asked a few of the wrong questions. Then it was all hate.

You are responsible for the ideology you choose. Your belief system represents YOU. Islam is an evil ideology based on hate and power lust and terrorism and human rights abuses....and it is all documented in the Quran and hadiths.

".... Farook had recently got into a heated argument with colleague Nicholas Thalasinos, a Messianic Jew, who was named as one of his victims.
Thalasinos, a county restaurant inspector, was said to regularly discuss politics and religion with Farook.
Colleague Kuuleme Stephen said that when she had called Thalasinos at work he told her he was having a heated discussion with Farook about Islam who had told him Islam was a peaceful religion and that Americans do not understand Islam."

Sound familiar? Soon after this Farook opened fire and slaughtered 14 people, injuring many more.

Muslim San Bernardino gunman was 'radicalized by known terrorists' before shooting | Daily Mail Online

“He was quiet but always polite,” Maria Gutierrez told The News. “Maybe two years ago he became more religious. He grew a beard and started to wear religious clothing. The long shirt that’s like a dress and the cap on his head.” - neighbor of the Muslim that just slaughtered 14 people

"San Bernardino Jihadists’ Neighbors Didn’t Report Suspicions Out of Fear of Being Called RACIST"

When the Islamic State entered the Syrian city of Hassakè, prompting a mass exodus of Christians, many “moderate” Muslims joined ranks with IS, instantly turning on their longtime Christian neighbors.

"We knew our Muslim neighbours all our lives. Yes, we knew the Diab family were quite radical, but we thought they would never betray us. We ate with them. We are one people.
A few of the Diab family had left months ago and we guessed they were with the Nusra [al-Qaeda front]. But their wives and children were still here. We looked after them. Then, two days before the Nusra attacked, the families suddenly left the town. We didn’t know why. And then our neighbours led our enemies in among us. We had excellent relations. It never occurred to us that Muslim neighbours would betray us." - Georgios, a man from the ancient Christian town of Ma‘loula

"We left because they were trying to kill us. . . . They wanted to kill us because we were Christians. They were calling us Kaffirs [infidels], even little children saying these things. Those who were our neighbors turned against us. At the end, when we ran away, we went through balconies. We did not even dare go out on the street in front of our house. " A teenage Christian girl from Homs, Syria

"A triple homicide was committed in Waltham, in the U.S. state of Massachusetts, on the evening of September 11, 2011.[2][3] Brendan Mess, Erik Weissman, and Raphael Teken were murdered in Mess's apartment. All had their throats slit from ear to ear, with such great force that they were nearly decapitated. Thousands of dollars' worth of marijuana and money were left covering their mutilated bodies, and $5,000 was left at the scene. The local district attorney said that it appeared that the killer and the victims knew each other, and that the murders were not random.

Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the deceased suspect in the 2013 Boston Marathon bombings, had previously described murder victim Brendan Mess as his best friend, though before Mess was murdered there had been animosity between Tsarnaev and Mess over Mess's "lifestyle". After the bombings and subsequent revelations of Tsarnaev's personal life, the Waltham murders case was reexamined in April 2013 with Tsarnaev as a new suspect.[2] ABC reported that authorities believe Tsarnaev may have been responsible for the triple homicide, that forensic evidence connected him to the scene of the killings, and that their cell phone records placed them in the area.[4] While police in the first investigation said that victims were killed on September 12, The Boston Globe, Boston Herald, and The Wall Street Journal reported that at least one relative of the victims believe that the killings took place on September 11.[2][5]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_W..._triple_murder

"I can’t tell you exactly, but it has to be religion. It has to be religion. They constantly asked us to convert, but we refused. Before this, they never mentioned it. Prior, we thought of each other as family. But I say, it has to be religion."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr2rRJ8NpQY

Muhammad ibn Jarir at-Tabari (d. 923), author of a standard and authoritative commentary of the Koran, writes:

If you [Muslims] are under their [non-Muslims’] authority, fearing for yourselves, behave loyally to them with your tongue while harboring inner animosity for them … [know that] Allah has forbidden believers from being friendly or on intimate terms with the infidels rather than other believers—except when infidels are above them [in authority]. Should that be the case, let them act friendly towards them while preserving their religion.

Ibn Kathir (d. 1373), another prime authority on the Koran, writes:

The Most High said, “[u]nless you but guard yourselves against them, taking precautions”—that is, whoever at any time or place fears their evil may protect himself through outward show—not sincere conviction. As al-Bukhari records through Abu al-Darda the words [of the Prophet], “Truly, we grin to the faces of some peoples, while our hearts curse them.”

Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah. Quran 3:28
It's folks like yourself that cause hate...
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Old 12-05-2015, 04:50 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,713 times
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Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
It's folks like yourself that cause hate...


Interestingly, Islam promotes terrorism and pedophilia and slavery and raping women in front of their husbands (or rape after these women see Muhammed and his gang slaughter their husbands, sons and fathers). Islam promotes hate of all disbelievers and there are hundreds of verses in the Quran where Allah gleefully brags about how he will horribly torture the disbelievers. Muhammed promoted the mass slaughter of disbelievers.

I stand against these things, so yea, I hope I cause hate against such evil. It's the only way we're going to defeat this horrible ideology.

Qur’an 22:19-22 “fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem” “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”

"They will long to leave the Fire, but never will they leave there from; and theirs will be a lasting torment." (Quran 5:37)

"…And they will never leave of the Fire." (Quran 2:167)

"Surely, those who disbelieve and did wrong; God will not forgive them, nor will He guide them to any way except the way of Hell, to dwell therein forever." (Quran 4:168-169)

"Surely, God has cursed the disbelievers, and has prepared for them a flaming Fire wherein they will abide for ever." (Quran 33:64)

"And whosoever disobeys God and His Messenger, then surely, for him is the fire of Hell, he shall dwell therein forever." (Quran 72:23)

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

Nope, I did not say any of this hateful stuff. I stand against it. I stand for the good.
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Old 12-05-2015, 05:38 PM
 
2,826 posts, read 1,865,774 times
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Originally Posted by ditchoc View Post
If they do not, I am afraid every Muslim will be branded as a terrorist.
Yes.
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Old 12-05-2015, 05:59 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,713 times
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
Yes.
I think many already brand them as potential terrorists, and with good reason. What is happening in Europe is unreal. And it is starting here in America.
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Old 12-05-2015, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,365 posts, read 24,109,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Wonder why you are so impulsive on that 'sounding'.


Note,
1. DNA wise ALL humans [including Muslims] are potentially beasts [evil].
2. Appx. 20% of ALL humans are evil prone due to lack of impulse control [in degrees].
3. Therefore there are 1.4 billion [20% of 7 billion] of humans who are evil prone.


Where does it imply race at all in the above 1-3.
It simply means if you take any large group of humans in any category, 20% are evil prone.
It can be any category, i.e. sex, religion, race, ideology, location, age, etc.
In this case I was referring to Muslims, i.e, out of 1.5 billion, thus 300 million [20%] are evil prone.


Perhaps you were not aware of this fact, i.e.
DNA wise humans are 96-98% similarly to the next beasts, the primates.
This also imply the human brain is 96-98% similar to the nearest beasts.
If you understand human nature you will note many humans can turn to be beasts at the slightest triggers, that is why we have so many in prisons and terrible evils and violence are committed all over the world.


My point is this;
We have a pool of 300 million [20%] potential evil prone Muslims who are exposed to the loads of evil laden elements in the Quran. This is the recipe for the terrible evils and violence that has been committed by SOME evil prone Muslims ever since Islam emerged within humanity.
All Muslims must wake up the above fact and recognize Islam-in-part is inherently evil beside its good.
Personally I think you are being misdirected. By your logic Islam should have been violent for the past 1400 years. Upwards of 120 years ago Muslims were tribal and the strongest tribe lead a region. A little over 100 years ago a certain European nation empowered a certain tribe with power over other tribes in a way that they were able to barter other tribes to join them in a certain situation against another European power & a Muslim power. With the assistance of that certain European power they won. The Ottoman Empire was gone and 100,000's of people were weaponized, militarized and a few major tribes were made into leaders and a few decades later nearly two dozen Muslim nations were born. Now here's your homework: Who was (and is) that European nation? Why,even in today's climate, do they pretty much stay clear of most issues supposably related to Islam?
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Old 12-06-2015, 03:52 AM
 
144 posts, read 107,449 times
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Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Tsk, tsk...Leave it to the Media to try and make us think otherwise...
The medias only spread the bad news, that's why i'm not surprised with the angry and stereotypes of some people.
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