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Old 12-11-2015, 09:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by int007 View Post
you mentioned Quranic verses about punishing the disbelievers in hell fire and you believe this is violent which is not because in Islam the biggest sin is associating partners with Allah and disbelievers will be punished but being Muslim is not a ticket to heaven so there will be Muslims as well who will be sinners. Now lets have a look at bible in this regard:

Revelation 21:8
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Matthew 13:50
50 and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mark 9:43
43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

there are lots of verses in bible, I only mentioned few. Now what is wrong with these verses, I think they are absolutely fair just like the verses in the Quran about punishing Disbelievers and sinners ?
We are on an Islam forum discussing Islam. What you are doing is trying to excuse the evil in Islam by pointing to other evil. It is a logical fallacy:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

Let's look at my request again:

Please post these verses and provide the context:

Sahih Muslim 3371 You agree that Muhammed and his men mass raped captive women with Allah's approval and encouragement, but question if they mass raped the women in front of their husbands.

Bukhari vol. 7, #65 No reply

Bukhari, volume 5, #234 No reply

Sahih Muslim 5917 No reply

Sahih Muslim 4209 No reply

Tell me what happened to Asma bint Marwan. Why did Muhammed have her slaughtered? No reply.

Explain the context here:

The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives.
Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)

Said husbands were not there for the mass rape.

How many times in the Quran does 'Allah' make statements like this:

"then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers....And those who disbelieve and deny Our signs - those will be companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally....And for the disbelievers is a humiliating punishment...... And for the disbelievers is a painful punishment......Indeed, those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers - upon them will be the curse of Allah and of the angels and the people, all together,....And Allah does not like every sinning disbeliever......Indeed, those who disbelieve in the verses of Allah will have a severe punishment, ...Indeed, those who disbelieve - never will their wealth or their children avail them against Allah at all. And it is they who are fuel for the Fire.....“for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”

Pointed finger at Christians. Said the above is not violent.


How many verses of hate are in the Quran?

No reply.

Do you agree with Woodrow that disbelievers in Allah deserve never ending and horrible torture as allah demands above? No reply.
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Sorry if I gave the impression that Islam was 'new' when in fact I tried to point out that Islam and its main character RESEMBLES much of what we read in the Jewish Old Testament. What I implied by 'new' is that his religious ideas were revolutionary in a polytheistic place like the Arabian peninsula at that time.

It is not surprising Muhammad's Islam closely resembles the older faiths of Judaism and Christianity and also not surprising he believed his his revelations were more pure and complete than the older faiths. It is natural that he would make claims that THEIRs is corrupt or that the adherents are not following it the right way, but mine is pure and this is the way you do it, to sell his message. It is a classic sales pitch.

Yes, Muhammad was a religious pioneer, not unlike many others before him who found issues in the established religions and then formed their own with heavy elements from the one(s) they emerged from. Buddhism springing from Hinduism is one example. Christianity springing from Judaism is another. Even within my former Christian faith, you find one sect forming from another sect that the new sect had religious differences with like the Anglicans springing from the Catholics or Seventh Day Adventists emerging from the Baptists and so on. In just about EVERY case, the new condemns the old as being corrupt, not sincere any more, losing their way, etc.

I remember when I was a teenager and a super devout Christian, I used to go up into the hills behind our home. It was a time when I read the bible vociferously. I was enamored with the Old Testament prophets. I loved the way they were imbued with power and the fierce way they pronounced the judgment of God on the disobedient Israelites. So, seeking the same power (as we were promised as Christians), I used to separate myself and head to the hills to pray. I became so convinced that the other young people in my church were not serious enough. I believed they were slackers who barely knew their bibles and did not take prayer seriously enough. I also believed the end was near and that the people on my island were forsaking God and not preparing themselves for Jesus' return. I became so emboldened, I began preaching in my school and asking to preach in church. I felt called. I felt as if God was speaking through me. I felt I had the message my people needed to hear. It got so wild, I would write letters to people, declaring the return of the lord and the need to repent.

To me, this is how I view Muhammad. I come away with the idea the man was contemplative and was probably wading through all the religious ideas he heard in Mecca's marketplace and on his trips to places like Antioch, Syria, a hotbed for early Christianity. I am sure he also viewed his own people as religiously backward; people who had not religiously evolved from the primitive past. With all of this rolling around in his head, he headed to the hills to meditate and like me, really began to believe he was "hearing from God" and feeling compelled to go preach religious revolution to his people AND others that HE had the right and perfect message.
Well I do appreciate your view. It is a very logical and sensible one, also one that I feel even most Muslims can appreciate. A sensible view is much better than the attacks that I often see.

I might disagree with some of your points, but in my opinion they are just as valid as my concepts, so I am not going to try to debate them.

Thank you for a peaceful discussion
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Continuum Wrote:
Note I put the Hadiths in a bracket and I don't give credibility to any Hadiths unless they are in alignment with the Quran, i.e. the sole words of Allah.
May be for you but Hadiths are most important for Muslims and they are part of Islam. Non-Muslims use certain hadiths for criticism on Islam and if we explain something from Hadith they still make excuses.

Your argument about Quran 3:151 proves nothing it was revealed during the battle of Uhud

We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for what they have associated with Allah of which He had not sent down [any] authority. And their refuge will be the Fire, and wretched is the residence of the wrongdoers. Quran:3:151

After Uhud, Abu Sufyan and the idolaters headed toward Mecca. But after they traversed a certain distance, they felt regret, saying: ‘Evil is that which we have done! We massacred them [Muslims] such that none of them remained except those who fled from the battlefield and then we left them alone. Go back and exterminate them’. But when they decided to do so, Allah, exalted is He, cast terror in their hearts which made them decide against what they had resolved to do. Allah, exalted is He, then revealed this verse.”

if you read the very next verse then its clear that it was revealed during the battle of Uhud

And Allah had certainly fulfilled His promise to you when you were killing the enemy by His permission until [the time] when you lost courage and fell to disputing about the order [given by the Prophet] and disobeyed after He had shown you that which you love. Among you are some who desire this world, and among you are some who desire the Hereafter. Then he turned you back from them [defeated] that He might test you. And He has already forgiven you, and Allah is the possessor of bounty for the believers. Quran 3:152

what is wrong with casting terror in the heart of people who were killing Muslims in battle

for a reminder lets see what bible says
Deuteronomy 20:16
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.

Your argument about ISIS casting terror or whatever prove nothing in fact they are not only casting terror in Non-Muslims heart they are also killing and casting terror in Muslims heart as well
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:39 AM
 
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Quote:
juju33312 Wrote:
I am glad you replied.

To sum up, even if we decide you are right and the husbands were not watching the mass rape, it is still MASS RAPE. Muhammed and his gang MASS RAPE WOMEN with Allah's encouragement. The husbands watching, or not, is not the big issue. MASS RAPE is the big issue.

And not only does Allah give permission and encouragement to mass rape THESE women, but ALL women who are slaves or captives (the right hand possesses).

Do you think Allah was bad to give his full permission and encouragement for Muhammed and his men to MASS RAPE these women and girls?
Actually i posted that reply last night and I dont know why it didn't showed up, anyways rape is prohibited in Islam and its punishment is death, so there is no rape thing happened and you missed that part
" And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (iv. 24)" (i. e. they were lawful for them when their 'Idda period came to an end) Iddah period is 4 months and 10 days so there was no mass rape.

in fact Allah encourages Muslims to marry Slaves It does not stop here Allah also mentioned in the Quran that marry your daughters and sons to slaves.

[4.25] And whoever among you has not within his power ampleness of means to marry free believing women, then (he may marry) of those whom your right hands possess from among your believing maidens; and Allah knows best your faith: you are (sprung) the one from the other; so marry them with the permission of their masters, and give them their dowries justly, they being chaste, not fornicating, nor receiving paramours; and when they are taken in marriage, then if they are guilty of indecency, they shall suffer half the punishment which is (inflicted) upon free women. This is for him among you who fears falling into evil; and that you abstain is better for you, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Quran 2:221 Yusufali
Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters), until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise.
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:51 AM
 
Location: New York City
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Well I do appreciate your view. It is a very logical and sensible one, also one that I feel even most Muslims can appreciate. A sensible view is much better than the attacks that I often see.

I might disagree with some of your points, but in my opinion they are just as valid as my concepts, so I am not going to try to debate them.

Thank you for a peaceful discussion
Peaceful is how I roll, Woodrow. LOL

In clarification, as much as I debate religion on internet forums, I do NOT bother anyone about their religious beliefs in my everyday life. I may NOT respect a belief or even a religion, but I keep my respect for PERSONS and their RIGHT to their beliefs. I do not bring up the subject nor do I decry anyone’s right to express them (WITHIN the confines of things lawful by secular law). In fact, I am actually relieved that some people find some type of religious outlet to calm them down or that gives them something, seemingly constructive to do. Some people NEED it. They need that balance of fear and reward to keep them balanced, so to speak. If they can go through life abstaining from certain detrimental things because they fear what some deity might do to them in the afterlife, well, more power to them and I stand a chance to be safe around them. Albeit, it might breed a whole bottle full of hypocrisy in some respects, but at least they suppress their urges to burn me at a stake for not believing what they do.

Oddly enough, in my everyday life as a black man, I cannot tell you how many times other black folks, often total strangers walk up to me and just start speaking in “Gospelese” (Christian-speak) to me based on the assumption that I am black and that means I automatically believe in the biblical god. I am asked to pray sometimes. I am told that “God is good.” I am told stories about things God has done while I sit there totally dumbfounded why I have to sit there and listen to such things.

One of my favorite boardites is Whoppers because I love the way he removes the lofty trappings many give to the bible and show the very basic, human, early stories behind the glowing façade given to the accounts found therein. It is something I love doing, but he does a far better job than I do. For example, when we read that God sent “an evil spirit” to torment king Saul. The Christian sees some spiritual thing going on as an ordained spirit is sent from the throne of God to carry out some divine plan against the king. Those of us not looking through faith colored glasses and armed with conclusions from modern medicine and science see a king suffering from some mental disorder (schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, depression or paranoia). When a parent in the New Testament brought his son to Jesus, complaining that evil spirits tormented his son, causing him to throw himself into fire and go into shaking, faith colored glasses see a spiritual world of demons while modern eyes see nothing more than a classic case of epileptic seizures.

When one looks close enough, many of the older biblical stories are NOT stories of a miracle working deity and a people, but rather, a people invoking a deity to justify actions or give themselves legitimacy. So when they wanted Canaanite land, they invoked their deity and claimed he hated the Canaanites because they were evil idolaters who sacrificed babies and had wild outdoor sex. When Saul refused to wipe out the Amalekites in entirety, the prophet Samuel claimed that God rejected Saul for refusing to commit genocide because Samuel ascribed to an old grudge against the Amalekites, but the bible spins a different story justifying the need to wipe them out. When Elijah and Elisha waged holy war on Jezebel, her dynasty and their state religion and personally slaughtered OR commissioned the slaughter of religious rivals, the bible presents it as God ordained to “purge” evil from among his people and prevent the attraction of rival gods. To the observant eye, you see something else. You see a religious war of rivals seeking a unifying religion to lock down and control temple coffers, BUT invoking “god” to carry out the missions of slaughter provides the divine mandate.

I know it is my opinion only, but I see a parallel similar thing with the Quran and Muhammad. The devout Muslim sees something miraculous, but those not reading it from a devotional standpoint see it in raw human form and can glean a basic story that has no bells and whistles.

Last edited by InsaneInDaMembrane; 12-11-2015 at 11:29 AM..
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by int007 View Post
May be for you but Hadiths are most important for Muslims and they are part of Islam. Non-Muslims use certain hadiths for criticism on Islam and if we explain something from Hadith they still make excuses.

Your argument about Quran 3:151 proves nothing it was revealed during the battle of Uhud

We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for what they have associated with Allah of which He had not sent down [any] authority. And their refuge will be the Fire, and wretched is the residence of the wrongdoers. Quran:3:151

After Uhud, Abu Sufyan and the idolaters headed toward Mecca. But after they traversed a certain distance, they felt regret, saying: ‘Evil is that which we have done! We massacred them [Muslims] such that none of them remained except those who fled from the battlefield and then we left them alone. Go back and exterminate them’. But when they decided to do so, Allah, exalted is He, cast terror in their hearts which made them decide against what they had resolved to do. Allah, exalted is He, then revealed this verse.”

if you read the very next verse then its clear that it was revealed during the battle of Uhud

And Allah had certainly fulfilled His promise to you when you were killing the enemy by His permission until [the time] when you lost courage and fell to disputing about the order [given by the Prophet] and disobeyed after He had shown you that which you love. Among you are some who desire this world, and among you are some who desire the Hereafter. Then he turned you back from them [defeated] that He might test you. And He has already forgiven you, and Allah is the possessor of bounty for the believers. Quran 3:152

what is wrong with casting terror in the heart of people who were killing Muslims in battle

for a reminder lets see what bible says
Deuteronomy 20:16
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.

Your argument about ISIS casting terror or whatever prove nothing in fact they are not only casting terror in Non-Muslims heart they are also killing and casting terror in Muslims heart as well
Let's set the bigger context here. The Quran is (according to Muslims) the DIRECT word from Allah who created THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE. This is an AMAZING claim. WOW! This is HUGE. This super being is all powerful and all knowing. Again, WOW! So this super being who created every single thing that exists writes ONE book. The Quran. Allah says in the Quran that:

"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah." (Qur'an 33:21)

Is this Quran just a message for the few Muslims back then for specific events, or all Muslims, yesterday, today and tomorrow?

Additionally, Allah goes on and on and on about hating the disbelievers and torturing them.

Let's examine the battle of Uhud.

Muhammad, desperate to save his own skin, began selling paradise to the men around him in exchange for their lives:

It has been reported on the authority of Anas b. Malik that (when the enemy got the upper hand) on the day of the Battle of Uhud, the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) was left with only seven men from the Ansar and two men from the Quraish. When the enemy advanced towards him and overwhelmed him, he said: Whoso turns them away from us will attain Paradise or will be my Companion in Paradise. A man from the Ansar came forward and fought (the enemy) until he was killed. The enemy advanced and overwhelmed him again and he repeated the words: Whoso turns them away, from us will attain Paradise or will be my Companion in Paradise. A man from the Ansar came forward and fought until he was killed. This state continued until the seven Ansar were killed (one after the other). Muslim 19:4413)

Here's your basis for martyrs and suicide missions.

Muhammad himself was so anxious to avoid the wonderful hereafter. He hid in the back and surrounded himself with body guards. That backfired, though, and no Angels came then, either. I think after he attacked Badr, he knew no angels were going to protect him.

BTW, the reason for the battle was to get back at the Muslims for the battle of Badr.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Badr



Remember that one?
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Old 12-11-2015, 03:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Let's set the bigger context here. The Quran is (according to Muslims) the DIRECT word from Allah who created THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE. This is an AMAZING claim. WOW! This is HUGE. This super being is all powerful and all knowing. Again, WOW! So this super being who created every single thing that exists writes ONE book. The Quran. Allah says in the Quran that:

"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah." (Qur'an 33:21)

Is this Quran just a message for the few Muslims back then for specific events, or all Muslims, yesterday, today and tomorrow?

Additionally, Allah goes on and on and on about hating the disbelievers and torturing them.

Let's examine the battle of Uhud.

Muhammad, desperate to save his own skin, began selling paradise to the men around him in exchange for their lives:

It has been reported on the authority of Anas b. Malik that (when the enemy got the upper hand) on the day of the Battle of Uhud, the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) was left with only seven men from the Ansar and two men from the Quraish. When the enemy advanced towards him and overwhelmed him, he said: Whoso turns them away from us will attain Paradise or will be my Companion in Paradise. A man from the Ansar came forward and fought (the enemy) until he was killed. The enemy advanced and overwhelmed him again and he repeated the words: Whoso turns them away, from us will attain Paradise or will be my Companion in Paradise. A man from the Ansar came forward and fought until he was killed. This state continued until the seven Ansar were killed (one after the other). Muslim 19:4413)

Here's your basis for martyrs and suicide missions.

Muhammad himself was so anxious to avoid the wonderful hereafter. He hid in the back and surrounded himself with body guards. That backfired, though, and no Angels came then, either. I think after he attacked Badr, he knew no angels were going to protect him.

BTW, the reason for the battle was to get back at the Muslims for the battle of Badr.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Badr



Remember that one?
Quote:
Here's your basis for martyrs and suicide missions.
well if someone die in the battle field will go to heaven but not every battle field. only if someone attacks you or in self defense. Its not mean that every battle fought by Muslims is just, it should be just and in self defense and all religions say the same for their soldiers and where ISIS fits in here?. God Almighty Says in Quran:

And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know. Quran 9:6

This hadith proves nothing, I think you are just copy / pasting from Anti-Islamic website without even having a good look at it,
I think I lost some brain cells on this one
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Old 12-11-2015, 03:20 PM
Status: "Nobody's right if everybody's wrong" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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ISIS is to Islam what the Church of Christ movement is to Christianity (not United CoC, the one originating in Kentucky in the early 1800s)


Both were founded by men who believe that contemporary religion has been corrupted by man made traditions. They called for an absolute return to the practices and beliefs present during the time that their prophet lived. They call for absolute literal interpretations with no room for modern interpretations. Both believe anyone who does not share their beliefs and practices are apostates who will burn in hell fire. Both believe they must succeed in their mission in order for the end times and judgement to arrive.
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Old 12-11-2015, 03:43 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
ISIS is to Islam what the Church of Christ movement is to Christianity (not United CoC, the one originating in Kentucky in the early 1800s)


Both were founded by men who believe that contemporary religion has been corrupted by man made traditions. They called for an absolute return to the practices and beliefs present during the time that their prophet lived. They call for absolute literal interpretations with no room for modern interpretations. Both believe anyone who does not share their beliefs and practices are apostates who will burn in hell fire. Both believe they must succeed in their mission in order for the end times and judgement to arrive.
This is what I was stating earlier in this thread in reference to Muhammad. Every so often, someone rises up and declares that others are "doing it all wrong" or has forsaken the "right way" and a return (often to something more rigid) is required to avert the judgment of a deity OR prepare for a coming war, "kingdom" or the end of time. We find it in the Bible with John the Baptist and then Jesus, then Paul followed by Simon Bar Kochba, Muhammad and a long list of others including Martin Luther, Charles Taze Russell, William Miller, Ellen G White, Elijah Muhammad and others including the nutjobs from ISIS. Some founded entirely new religions and some founded new sects within an established religion. There is ALWAYS someone out there, lurking, believing that they need to bring something new to the table and it is not often pretty, BUT the crazy thing is, they often attract the gullible and, bingo!
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Old 12-11-2015, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by int007 View Post
well if someone die in the battle field will go to heaven but not every battle field. only if someone attacks you or in self defense. Its not mean that every battle fought by Muslims is just, it should be just and in self defense and all religions say the same for their soldiers and where ISIS fits in here?. God Almighty Says in Quran:

And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know. Quran 9:6

This hadith proves nothing, I think you are just copy / pasting from Anti-Islamic website without even having a good look at it,
I think I lost some brain cells on this one
While some of the anti-Islamic sites are only in error, many seem to be making an actual verbal attack against Islam, based on hatred and not facts.

Sadly some non-Muslims believe them to be true. Many non-Muslims actually do believe terrorists groups such as ISIS are the real followers of Islam.

One problem I find is the anti-Islamic sites are easy to copy and paste for "answers". add to that some people want to find Islam to be violent and Muslims are aggressors that want to control the world.

For example, to show Islam is violent many anti-Islamic sites perpetuate the myth that Muslims started the Crusades by invading Christian countries.

History actually reflects the Roman Catholic and the Greek Catholic Church started the Crusades. Basically they were a power struggle between the Pope and the Byzantine Christians.


Quote:
The First Crusade (1096–1099) was the first of a number of crusades that attempted to capture the Holy Lands, called by Pope Urban II in 1095. It started as a widespread pilgrimage in western christendom and ended as a military expedition by Roman Catholic Europe to regain the Holy Lands taken in the Muslim conquests of the Levant (632–661), ultimately resulting in the recapture of Jerusalem in 1099. It was launched on 27 November 1095 by Pope Urban II with the primary goal of responding to an appeal from Byzantine Emperor Alexios I Komnenos, who requested that western volunteers come to his aid and help to repel the invading Seljuq Turks from Anatolia. An additional goal soon became the principal objective—the Christian reconquest of the sacred city of Jerusalem and the Holy Land and the freeing of the Eastern Christians from Muslim rule.

During the crusade, knights, peasants and serfs from many nations of Western Europe travelled over land and by sea, first to Constantinople and then on towards Jerusalem. The Crusaders arrived at Jerusalem, launched an assault on the city, and captured it in July 1099, massacring many of the city's Muslim, Christian, and Jewish inhabitants. They also established the crusader states of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, the County of Tripoli, the Principality of Antioch, and the County of Edessa.

The First Crusade was followed by the Second to the Ninth Crusades. It was also the first major step towards reopening international trade in the West since the fall of the Western Roman Empire. Because the First Crusade was largely concerned with Jerusalem, a city which had not been under Christian dominion for 461 years, and the crusader army had refused to return the land to the control of the Byzantine Empire, the status of the First Crusade as defensive or as aggressive in nature remains controversial.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade
Quote:
The validity of the Western legates' act is doubtful, since Pope Leo had died and Cerularius' excommunication applied only to the legates personally.[2] Still, the Church split along doctrinal, theological, linguistic, political, and geographical lines, and the fundamental breach has never been healed, with each side sometimes accusing the other of having fallen into heresy and of having initiated the division. The Crusades, the Massacre of the Latins in 1182, the West's retaliation in the Sacking of Thessalonica in 1185, the capture and Siege of Constantinople (1204) in 1204, and the imposition of Latin patriarchs made reconciliation more difficult.[2] Establishing Latin hierarchies in the Crusader states meant that there were two rival claimants to each of the patriarchal sees of Antioch, Constantinople, and Jerusalem, making the existence of schism clear.[15]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism
Quote:
The nobility of the Middle Ages was a military class; in the Early Medieval period a king (rex) attracted a band of loyal warriors (comes) and provided for them from his conquests. As the Middle Ages progressed, this system developed into a complex set of feudal ties and obligations. As Christianity had been accepted by barbarian nobility, the Church sought to prevent ecclesiastical land and clergymen, both of which came from the nobility, from embroilment in martial conflicts. By the early 11th century, clergymen and peasants were granted immunity from violence – the Peace of God (Pax Dei). Soon the warrior elite became "sanctified", for example fighting was banned on holy days – the Truce of God (Treuga Dei). The concept of chivalry developed, emphasising honour and loyalty amongst knights. With the advent of Crusades, holy orders of knights were established who perceived themselves as called by God to defend Christendom against Muslim advances in Spain, Italy, and the Holy Land, and pagan strongholds in Eastern Europe.

First Crusade 1095–1099
For the first decade, the Crusaders pursued a policy that included mass executions, the throwing of severed heads over besieged cities walls, exhibition and mutilation of naked cadavers, and even cannibalism, as was recorded after the Siege of Maarat.
Pope Urban II at the Council of Clermont (1095), where he preached the First Crusade; later manuscript illumination of c. 1490

In March 1095 at the Council of Piacenza, ambassadors sent by Byzantine Emperor Alexius I called for help with defending his empire against the Seljuk Turks. Later that year, at the Council of Clermont, Pope Urban II called upon all Christians to join a war against the Turks, promising those who died in the endeavor would receive immediate remission of their sins.[18]

The Siege of Antioch took place shortly before the siege on Jerusalem during the first Crusade. Antioch fell to the Franks in May 1098 but not before a lengthy siege. The ruler of Antioch was not sure how the Christians living within his city would react, and he forced them to live outside the city during the siege, though he promised to protect their wives and children from harm, while Jews and Muslims fought together. The siege only came to end when the city was betrayed and the Franks entered through the water-gate of the town causing the leader to flee. Once inside the city, as was standard military practice at the time,[19] the Franks then massacred the civilians, destroyed mosques and pillaged the city.[20] The crusaders finally marched to the walls of Jerusalem with only a fraction of their original forces.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ...e_11th_century
To fully understand the crusades one needs to go back to the year 324 when Constantine conquered Jerusalem for Christianity and banned non-Christians from Jerusalem A timeline of Jerusalem tells it clearer

Quote:
324–325: Emperor Constantine wins the Civil Wars of the Tetrarchy (306–324) and reunites the empire. Within a few months, the First Council of Nicaea (first worldwide Christian council) confirms status of Aelia as a patriarchate.[35] A significant wave of Christian immigration to the city begins. This is the date on which the city is generally taken to have been renamed Jerusalem.
c.325: The ban on Jews entering the city remains in force, but they are allowed to enter once a year to pray at the Western Wall on Tisha B'Av.
326: Constantine's mother Helena visits Jerusalem and orders the destruction of Hadrian's temple to Venus which had been built on Calvary. Accompanied by Macarius of Jerusalem, the excavation reportedly discovers the True Cross, the Holy Tunic and the Holy Nails.
333: The Eleona Basilica is built on the Mount of Olives, marking the site of the Ascension of Jesus.
335: First Church of the Holy Sepulchre built on Calvary.
347: Saint Cyril of Jerusalem delivers his Mystagogical Catecheses, instructions on the principal topics of Christian faith and practise
361: Neoplatonist Julian the Apostate becomes Roman Emperor and attempts to reverse the growing influence of Christianity by encouraging other religions. As a result, Alypius of Antioch is commissioned to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem and Jews are allowed to return to the city[36]
363: The Galilee earthquake of 363 together with the re-establishment of Christianity's dominance following the death of Julian the Apostate at the Battle of Samarra ends attempts to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem.
380: Theodosius I declares Nicene Christianity the state church of the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire later loses its western provinces, with Jerusalem continuing under the jurisdiction of the Eastern Empire (commonly known as the Byzantine Empire).
c.380: Tyrannius Rufinus and Melania the Elder found the first monastery in Jerusalem on the Mount of Olives
386: Saint Jerome moves to Jerusalem in order to commence work on the Vulgate, commissioned by Pope Damasus I and instrumental in the fixation of the Biblical canon in the West. He later moves to Bethlehem.
394: John II, Bishop of Jerusalem, consecrates the Church of the Holy Zion built on the site of the Cenacle
403: Euthymius the Great founds the Pharan lavra, six miles east of Jerusalem
438: Empress Aelia Eudocia Augusta, wife of Theodosius II, visits Jerusalem after being encouraged by Melania the Younger.
451: The Council of Chalcedon confirms Jerusalem's status as a Patriarchate as one of the Pentarchy. Juvenal of Jerusalem becomes the first Patriarch of Jerusalem[37]
443–460: Empress Aelia Eudocia Augusta moves to Jerusalem where she dies in the year 460, after being banished by Theodosius II for adultery
483: Sabbas the Sanctified founds the Great Lavra, also known as Mar Saba, in the Kidron Valley
540–550: Emperor Justinian I undertakes a number of building works, including the once magnificent Nea Ekklesia of the Theotokos ("the Nea") and the extension of the Cardo thoroughfare[38]
c.600: Latin Pope Gregory I commissions Abbot Probus of Ravenna to build a hospital in Jerusalem to treat Latin pilgrims to the Holy Land
610: The Temple Mount in Jerusalem become the focal point for Muslim salat (prayers), known as the First Qibla, following Muhammad's initial revelations (Wahy) (Islamic sources)
610 Jewish revolt against Heraclius begins in Antioch and spreads to other cities including Jerusalem.
614: Siege of Jerusalem (614) – Jerusalem falls to Khosrau II's Sassanid Empire led by General Shahrbaraz, during the Byzantine–Sassanid War of 602–628. Jewish leader Nehemiah ben Hushiel allied with Shahrbaraz in the battle, as part of the Jewish revolt against Heraclius, and was made governor of the city. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre is burned, Patriarch Zacharias is taken prisoner, the True Cross and other relics are taken to Ctesiphon, and much of the Christian population is massacred.[39][40] Most of the city is destroyed.
617: Jewish governor Nehemiah ben Hushiel is killed by a mob of Christian citizens, three years after he is appointed. The Sassanids quell the uprising and appoint a Christian governor to replace him.
620: Muhammad's night journey (Isra and Mi'raj to Jerusalem (Islamic sources)
624: Jerusalem loses its place as the Qibla (focal point for Muslim prayers) to Mecca, 18 months after the Hijra (Muhammad's migration to Medina)
c.625: According to Sahih al-Bukhari, Muhammad ordained the Al-Aqsa Mosque as one of the three holy mosques of Islam[41]
629: Byzantine Emperor Heraclius retakes Jerusalem, after the decisive defeat of the Sassanid Empire at the Battle of Nineveh (627). Heraclius personally returns the True Cross to the city.[42]

Middle Ages
Rashidun, Umayyad and Abbasid Caliphates period
The expansion of the caliphate under the Umayyads.
Expansion under Muhammad, 622–632
Expansion during the Rashidun Caliphate, 632–661
Expansion during the Umayyad Caliphate, 661-750
An anachronistic map of the various de facto independent emirates after the Abbasids lost their military dominance (c. 950).

636–7: Siege of Jerusalem (637) – Caliph Umar the Great conquers Jerusalem and enters the city on foot, following the decisive defeat of the Byzantine Empire at the Battle of Yarmouk a few months earlier.[3] Patriarch Sophronius and Umar are reported to have agreed the Covenant of Umar I, which guaranteed Christians freedom of religion but prohibited Jews from living in the city according to Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari. Jerusalem becomes part of the Jund Filastin province of the Arab Caliphate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Jerusalem
Quote:
THE BACKGROUND OF THE CRUSADES
Why did Pope Urban II call for the recapture of the Holy Land? Three reasons are primarily given for the beginning of the Crusades: (1) to free Jerusalem and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre; (2) to aid the suffering Christians of the East, thereby healing the rift between Roman and Orthodox Christianity following the Schism of 1054; and (3) to marshal the energy of the constantly warring feudal lords and knights into the one cause of "penitential warfare." 4

THE CRUSADES TO THE HOLY LAND
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