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Old 12-12-2015, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,320,105 times
Reputation: 7407

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
1. We were discussing matters related to 'obey' Muhammad with reference to the Ahadiths. If it is related to 'obey' then it must be based on his sayings or instructions to various people.
In this case, 'obey Muhammad' is related to hadiths that are sayings and instructions.


2. For those hadiths that are based on what people see of Muhammad actions, this is worse because how they know what Muhammad did was supposed to be divine. In the Quran it is stated Muhammad is supposed to be an exemplar to be followed by all Muslims. But it would be dumb to follow every action of Muhammad based on what is seen from a distance and without inter-communication with him.


Regardless, in both cases in 1 and 2 above, the individual Hadiths MUST comply with the principles in the Quran [MGA-610AD]. There are no exceptions to this as the Quran is the sole representation of Allah words. Non-compliance with the principles would be bidah or defying Allah's authority.


Therefore all hadiths that do not comply with the Quran must not be taken as divine nor granted any divine authority.
As such they should not be converted to Islamic Laws to be imposed and infringe on the basic human rights of any human.
In addition, there should not be any Islamic Laws based on the authority of the Quran which is supposed from Allah [God] because there is no God in the first place.




The witnesses and existence of much similarities do not imply truth as related to Quran nor carry any authority Allah.
If the Ahadiths were written more than 100 years up to 200 years the stories could have spread around the vicinity and thus the possibility of consensus along time and locations.

It is obvious all the hadiths must be read with reservations and doubts of the possibility of error.
However if the Hadiths is in alignment with the Quran, there should be no issue for it to act as a guide but not an authoritative doctrine of Islam.
All hadiths which do not align with the principles in the Quran should be rejected.

The various Ghusl are basically related to hygiene and converted as ritual. What do you mean by 'impurities' if it is not actual physical impurities. Physical impurities must be related to hygiene and cleanliness. If a Muslim has worked in the fields and has dirt all over, he has to clean all over his body. A Muslim is expected to wash after sex or if there are discharge. I raised the 'Female Wet Dream' OP - the question of anxiety was, do the female has to wash [getting rid of impurities] after she read something sexy and has the usual discharge? Female has normal discharge the whole day, thus must she wash every hour?


Rituals are for kindergarten practitioners. Advance spiritual practitioners will just clean themselves if they are dirty and don't if they are not. They would rather spent time on actual spiritual development that increases one's spiritual competence.
Relating to this

We were discussing matters related to 'obey' Muhammad with reference to the Ahadiths. If it is related to 'obey' then it must be based on his sayings or instructions to various people.
In this case, 'obey Muhammad' is related to hadiths that are sayings and instructions.



It which case that would be the 40 Qudsi Ahadith which are the only one Muhammad(saws) requested the scribes to Write. Those can be read here

Forty Hadith Qudsi in English and Arabic | Faith in Allah
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Old 12-12-2015, 04:38 PM
 
4,431 posts, read 1,660,458 times
Reputation: 1546
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Muslims have been slaughtering Muslims since the battle of the camel right after Muhammed kicked the bucket. It's not ISIS, it's Islam. Since 1946 over 10 MILLION Muslims have been slaughtered by other Muslims.
Someone with two brains cells and an iota of intelligence would easily beg to differ when he sees 100 and thousands of non-Muslims living very peacefully in Muslim majority nations for centuries.

Muslim killing Muslims or Christians killing Christais (Irish Republican Army) or Hindus Killing Hindus (Tamil Tigers) is primarily POLITICAL.
Again, two brain cells and an iota of intelligence is all what's required to figure this out. But what can you say, it's an era of paid bloggers
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Old 12-12-2015, 06:54 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 755,592 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Someone with two brains cells and an iota of intelligence would easily beg to differ when he sees 100 and thousands of non-Muslims living very peacefully in Muslim majority nations for centuries.

Muslim killing Muslims or Christians killing Christais (Irish Republican Army) or Hindus Killing Hindus (Tamil Tigers) is primarily POLITICAL.
Again, two brain cells and an iota of intelligence is all what's required to figure this out. But what can you say, it's an era of paid bloggers
In a 2007 research, Gunnar Heinsohn from the University of Bremen and Daniel Pipes, director of the Middle East Forum, found out that some 11 million Muslims have been violently killed since 1948, of which 35,000, (0.3 percent) died during the six years of Arab war against Israel, or one out of every 315 fatalities. In contrast, over 90 percent who perished were killed by fellow Muslims.

Which countries are you talking about, BTW? Let's remember that Muslims started out with ZERO percent of any population of any country since the time of Muhammed.

Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 99.9%

How did that happen?

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

How did that happen?

Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%
Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%
Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%
Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 10-15%
France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- Muslim 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad &Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%
Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%
United States -- Muslim 1.0%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1%-2%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

The larger the Muslim population grows, the more State run ethnic cleansing and genocide. The more unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, mass rape, crime, no go zones, backwardness, riots, terrorism, demands for special rights. They will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law. lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions ( Paris --car-burnings). Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats ( Amsterdam - Mohammed cartoons).
Jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning.

FrontPage Magazine - What Islam Isn't

I had lunch at an Ethiopian restaurant a couple days ago. The woman who owns it told me some horrible stories of what Muslims do there to Christians. OMG. She had to leave her home.

"Thousands of Christians Displaced in Ethiopia After Muslim Extremists Torch Churches, Homes"
Thousands of Christians Displaced in Ethiopia After Muslim Extremists Torch Churches, Homes | Fox News

Guess you forgot all this.
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Old 12-12-2015, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,592,701 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Relating to this

We were discussing matters related to 'obey' Muhammad with reference to the Ahadiths. If it is related to 'obey' then it must be based on his sayings or instructions to various people.
In this case, 'obey Muhammad' is related to hadiths that are sayings and instructions.


It which case that would be the 40 Qudsi Ahadith which are the only one Muhammad(saws) requested the scribes to Write. Those can be read here

Forty Hadith Qudsi in English and Arabic | Faith in Allah
These disputed instructions to scribes is one point but that is not my general point on this matter.


I was referring to the other sayings of Muhammad in his various dealings with various people in every aspect of his life that were witness by various people. He could be giving instructions to someone without asking any scribe to write it down.


For example, in the many Ahadiths of Ayesha, she would say, "the Prophet said this, did that, ask me to do this and that, asked so and so to do this and that". These events and sayings were witnessed by Ayesha, thus no scribes were involved. These observations and experiences of Muhammad as codified in the Ahadiths are expected to be followed by all Muslims who subscribed to it.


The fact is Muhammad in his 23 years of Islamic life would have said and acted with so much actions and thoughts that were observed by so many people. The point is we cannot assume all of Muhammad's thoughts and actions in the 23 years must be related to Islam. Note [the Quran emphasized so loudly and repeatedly] Muhammad was only a Warner and conveyor of the reminder [Quran] of Allah.


Therefore ALL the hadiths should be presumed by default to be false unless they can pass of the test and verification that they are in alignment with the doctrines and principles in the Quran, the only representative words of Allah.
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Old 12-12-2015, 11:53 PM
 
4,431 posts, read 1,660,458 times
Reputation: 1546
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
In a 2007 research, Gunnar Heinsohn from the University of Bremen and Daniel Pipes, director of the Middle East Forum, found out that some 11 million Muslims have been violently killed since 1948, of which 35,000, (0.3 percent) died during the six years of Arab war against Israel, or one out of every 315 fatalities. In contrast, over 90 percent who perished were killed by fellow Muslims.

Which countries are you talking about, BTW? Let's remember that Muslims started out with ZERO percent of any population of any country since the time of Muhammed.

Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 99.9%

How did that happen?

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

How did that happen?

Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%
Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%
Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%
Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 10-15%
France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- Muslim 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad &Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%
Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%
United States -- Muslim 1.0%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1%-2%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

The larger the Muslim population grows, the more State run ethnic cleansing and genocide. The more unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, mass rape, crime, no go zones, backwardness, riots, terrorism, demands for special rights. They will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law. lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions ( Paris --car-burnings). Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats ( Amsterdam - Mohammed cartoons).
Jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning.

FrontPage Magazine - What Islam Isn't

I had lunch at an Ethiopian restaurant a couple days ago. The woman who owns it told me some horrible stories of what Muslims do there to Christians. OMG. She had to leave her home.

"Thousands of Christians Displaced in Ethiopia After Muslim Extremists Torch Churches, Homes"
Thousands of Christians Displaced in Ethiopia After Muslim Extremists Torch Churches, Homes | Fox News

Guess you forgot all this.
As I said, the era of paid bloggers.
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Old 12-13-2015, 12:47 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,592,701 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Someone with two brains cells and an iota of intelligence would easily beg to differ when he sees 100 and thousands of non-Muslims living very peacefully in Muslim majority nations for centuries.

Muslim killing Muslims or Christians killing Christais (Irish Republican Army) or Hindus Killing Hindus (Tamil Tigers) is primarily POLITICAL.
Again, two brain cells and an iota of intelligence is all what's required to figure this out. But what can you say, it's an era of paid bloggers
I note you often insult your own intelligence by thinking out false conclusions based on a very narrow minded perspective.


The current news of Coptic Christians being victimized in Egypt and Yazidis being killed and raped in Iraq and Syria are so obvious data that contradict your claim.
If you have done your research of history since Islam began, you would have noted Muslims in Muslims-majority nations have noted the horrific and terrible evils and violence SOME Muslims has committed onto the non-Muslims minority as indicated in Juju's post above.
If there was/is any 'peace' that is only apparent because the Quran demands non-Muslims must be subjugated like animals and pay poll tax as a sign of submission. There may be periods where Muslims were not at war, but one has to take the whole history of Islam and Muslims into context.


You think the non-Muslims living in Saudi Arabia feel peaceful? No they are living within fear of non-conformance all the time as one wrong move could end with the head chopped off or flogged a 1000 times in public.
Even at present I will not feel peaceful and at ease when I am in any public events, places, building locations in the USA or anywhere around the world. From recent terrorist incidents the probability of me being shot is a very high possibility. I had wanted to visit the Pyramids but it would be 'stupid' of me to go at present.


The killing of non-Muslims [and even Muslims] by SOME evil prone is based on motivation from the Quran and Allah in reference to the tons of evil laden in the Quran. There is the political elements but that is secondary. The ultimate root cause are the loads of evil laden verses in the Quran and the martial ethos of Islam motivations SOME evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence around the world.
The many incidents that are not political related, i.e. the case of Malala re educations, those related to Sharia elements, killings and violence by mob rule based on the perception of what is Islamic, etc.


Since you are so fond citing 'intelligence.'
Intelligence is the ability to subsume a minor premise into the major premise effectively to arrive at a sound and valid conclusion.
Technically [not pejoratively and not offensively] the inability to subsume a minor premise into the major premise effectively is called 'stupidity'.


Your conclusion of 'non-Muslims living peacefully in Majority Muslims' is an example of an ineffective subsumption of a minor premise within a major premise.




Paid Bloggers??
If one has average intelligence, one must exercise discretion and should assess and verify the information from any third party regardless of what source.
This is why I sacrifice 12 months of full time effort to study and research extensively the Quran in detail so that I can personally verify the views of others [or so called paid bloggers], Muslims and their expert scholars.
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Old 01-04-2016, 11:09 AM
 
17 posts, read 83,721 times
Reputation: 16
ISIS as non-Islamic

you can translate this content to see what ISIS doing

http://www.tahrirnews.com/search?tit...A7%D8%B9%D8%B4
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Old 01-04-2016, 01:15 PM
 
2,108 posts, read 2,166,902 times
Reputation: 2003
Who cares about Scholars and books. Just my opinion and view, as I know that most Muslims are peace loving, good souls. And there are good and bad everywhere amongst all mankind. But the world is really getting sick of all this Islamic radical extremism wreaking havoc, death, rape, murder, beheadings, throwing people off roofs, enslaving women and children upon this world. Wouldn't it be nice if all Muslims were like the Sufi's? It is getting old, this savagery, and pure evil unleashed upon the world. The strife between Shia and Sunni, the hate that many Muslims have for Jews and for the west and for America. The eternal war, the never ending violence, the radicals in the religion,...the world is sick of it. Funny when I hear Muslims shouting Allah Akbar, right before they shoot an RPG, or blow up something, or in the midst of war. Does anyone really think God is listening to and blessing these murderous devils?? Does anyone think that these barbarians are going to heaven after killing or blowing up innocents? Does anyone think they are martyrs that are going to enter paradise after blowing up innocent children and women in the name of God??? How deceived, tricked, delusional, lost, and pathetic can men be?? Muslims always referring to the hereafter, as if they are the ones who have it all locked down, and figured out. Does any God really expect men to go around killing and maiming on his behalf, so that all on earth will bow down to him 5 times a day? Does God really care that much about puny humans who live for a few years? This jihad nonsense, pure nonsense, pure evil. The world is sick of radicalized Islam and all its hate, and violence, and madness. And any sick, twisted soul who supports them, is as equally as evil. Just my opinion and view. Where is the love? Calm the heck down, get a hobby. Stop the insanity. The God I know is a God of Love...

Last edited by folkguitarist555; 01-04-2016 at 01:46 PM..
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Old 01-04-2016, 07:18 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 755,592 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by takenwakki View Post
ISIS as non-Islamic

you can translate this content to see what ISIS doing

http://www.tahrirnews.com/search?tit...A7%D8%B9%D8%B4
What is ISIS doing that Muhammed did not do?
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Old 01-05-2016, 02:39 AM
 
2,108 posts, read 2,166,902 times
Reputation: 2003
Draw your own conclusion.....painful to watch these savages.

The Killing of Farkhunda - Video - NYTimes.com
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