Quote:
Originally Posted by goodmockingbird
Maybe if we non-Muslims an think of "submitting to the laws of nature" as somewhat similar to how Muslims use the word "submission" on Islam... Then perhaps we can see how it can be about making peace in a wholesome way
$0.02 cheerfully refundable
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Except for this. A few years ago I decided to learn about Islam. The first thing I did was read the Quran. I encourage everyone to do this. I found that the Quran was full of threats with 'Allah' telling the disbelievers about the endless torture he was going to do to them and other incitement to violence against disbelievers. The Quran is complete garbage, poorly written, full of scientific nonsense and irrationality. Any of the very few more peaceful verses are abrogated, wiped out, by later verses of hate against disbelievers.
Next, I read the hadiths; the Islamic writings about Muhammed's life. I learned that Muhammed had sex (raped) a little 9 year old child. Muhammed and his gang would attack villages, slaughter or capture the men and then rape the women, sometimes in front of their captive husbands and encouraged to do this by Allah. Then the women would be enslaves, or sold. Muhammed also raped women and would give out captive women as booty prizes. Muhammed had people slaughtered if they made fun of him. He was a thief and also owned and traded slaves. And more. I was shocked and sickened. I'll happily post any of these verses if you like.
I read some history and a lot of articles.
Then I started talking to Muslims with the assumption that somehow they knew nothing about all this. Over the course of four years I communicated with almost 3,000 'moderate' Muslims. This is what I learned:
- Even the most 'moderate' Muslim, the ones who say they hate ISIS, firmly believe that all disbelievers deserve Allah's horrible torture for all eternity. Allah warned us and if we make the wrong choice, we need to roast.
- Muslims know. They know what Muhammed did and they know what is in the Quran. The often pretend to be ignorant and will accuse me of lying when I post verses from the Quran or hadiths, but when I ask THEM to post the verses, they refuse. Always. Never once has a Muslim said, "OMG, I had no idea this was in the Quran", or "I am horrified to learn this about Muhammed."
- Muslims are taught how to argue. It's the same arguments over and over. Translation or context issues, false hadiths, Christianity is just as evil, etc, etc.
http://www.islam-watch.org/home/163-...arguments.html
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Responses_...mmad_and_Aisha
- No Muslims will say that Muhammed was wrong to rape, have sex with a child, own and trade slaves, sell women, demand terrorism, have people slaughtered, etc. Not one Muslim would judge Muhammed as anything but a perfect example.
- The nicest Muslim will become hateful if asked the right questions. I cannot count the number of times Muslims threatened to slaughter me and my family.
- Muslims play dirty. They gang up to have people banned from forums if that person speaks against Islam. They lie often and well. If you prove them wrong, they will ignore your evidence and stick with the lie or go on to a new one.
I often hear people compare Muslims to Germans. That's a false analogy. The analogy should be to compare 'moderate' Muslims to Nazis who have not yet killed any Jews.
I do not think sex with children rape, murder, slavery, selling women, etc, are just natural. I think these things are evil.
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