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Old 12-11-2015, 07:19 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 754,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by int007 View Post
your statement About Ayesha(RA) marriage with Muhammad(PBUH)is based on assumption or lack of knowledge. In this age of Science you should have known that if a girl reaches puberty at the age of 9 there is nothing to be alarmed off. In Islam the age of marriage is when boy or girl reaches puberty and age of puberty differs like 9/10/14/15/ according to their environment and diet . In USA age of marriage is different in some states like in Taxas its 14 there is nothing wrong with that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of..._United_States
Puberty: Read About the Stages for Boys and Girls

.
How sick. Puberty is a PROCESS. Some switch doesn't turn on when a child has her first period that makes her ready fro sex with a man in his 50's!!

Did you even read your own link?????

"Puberty is the period during which growing boys or girls undergo the process of sexual maturation. Puberty involves a series of physical stages or steps that lead to the achievement of fertility and the development of the so-called secondary sex characteristics, the physical features associated with adult males and females (such as the growth of pubic hair). While puberty involves a series of biological or physical transformations, the process can also have an effect on the psychosocial and emotional development of the adolescent."

Puberty: Read About the Stages for Boys and Girls

READ about Aisha's own account and the account of others. Try this: walk into a room of 4th grade girls and start having sex with them and see if they like it.

And Aisha had not even had her first period according to what I read, since she was still playing with dolls.
If she had her first period, she would not be allowed to play with dolls.

Do you have sex with 9 year old girls?

Muhammed had sex with a 9 year old child when he was 53 years old according to MANY Islamic sources:

SAHIH AL-BUKHARI

Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234)

Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236)


Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64; see also Numbers 65 and 88)

SAHIH MUSLIM

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3309; see also 3310)

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was six years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3311)

SUNAN ABU DAWUD

Aisha said: The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old. He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old.(Sunan Abu Dawud, Number 2116)

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. According to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him),and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 41, Number 4915)

SUNAN NASA‘I

… When Hadrat Aisha passed nine years of marriage life, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) fell in mortal sickness… ‘A’isha was eighteen years of age at the time when the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) passed away and she remained a widow for forty-eight years till she died at the age of sixty-seven. She saw the rules of four Caliphs in her lifetime. She died on Ramadan 58 A.H. during the Caliphate of Hadrat Amir Mu‘awiya… (Sunan Nasa'i: English translation with Arabic Text, compiled by Imam Abu Abd-ur-Rahman Ahmad Nasa'i, rendered into English by Muhammad Iqbal Siddiqui [Kazi Publication, 121-Zulqarnain Chambers, Gampat Road, Lahore, Pakistan; first edition, 1994], Volume 1, p. 108)

SUNAN IBN-I-MAJAH

1876. ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) is reported to have said: Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) contracted marriage with me while I was (yet) a six years [sic] old girl. Then we arrived at Medina and stayed with Banu Harith b. Khazraj. I fell victim to fever; then my hair (of the head fell off (and became scattered). Then they became plenty and hanged down upto [sic] the earlobes. My mother ‘Umm Ruman came to me while I was (playing) in a swing alongwith [sic] my play-mates. She (the mother) called me loudly. I went to her and I did not know what he [sic] wanted. She seized my hand and stopped me at the door of the house and I was hearing [sic] violently until the agitation of my heart was over. Then she took some water and wiped it over my face and head. Then she admitted me to the house when some woman [sic] of Ansar were present in the house. They said, "You have entered with blessings and good fortune." Then she (the mother) entrusted me to them. So they embellished me and nothing frightened me but Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) (when he came there) in the morning and they (the women) entrusted me to him. On that day, I was a nine years [sic] old girl."

1877. Abdullah (Allah be pleased with him) is reported to have said, "The Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) married ‘A’isha while she was a seven years [sic] old girl and took him [sic] to his house as a bride when she was nine years old and he parted with her (after his demise) when she was eighteen years old."

According to Al-Zawa‘id its isnad is sahih in accordance with the condition prescribed by Bukhari, but munqata because Abu ‘Ubaida did not hear from his father. Shu‘ba Abu Hatim and Ibn Hibban mentioned him amongst the authentic and reliable authorities. Tirmidhi in al-Jami’ and al-Mazzi in al-Atraf (has expressed the same opinion). Nasa‘i has transmitted this hadith in al-Sughra from the hadith ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her). (Sunan Ibn-I-Majah, Imam Abdullah Muhammad B. Yazid Ibn-I-Maja Al-Qazwini, English version by Muhammad Tufail Ansari [Kazi Publications, 121-Zulqarnain Chambers, Gampat Road, Lahore Pakistan, first edition, 1995], volume III, pp. 133-134)

IBN HISHAM

He married ‘A’isha in Mecca when she was a child of seven and lived with her in Medina when she was nine or ten. She was the only virgin that he married. Her father, Abu Bakr, married her to him and the apostle gave her four hundred dirhams. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasulullah (The Life of Muhammad), translated by Alfred Guillaume [Oxford University Press, Karachi, tenth impression 1995], p. 792)

AL-TABARI

In this year also the Messenger of God consummated his marriage with ‘A’ishah. This was in Dhu al-Qa‘dah (May-June 623) eight months after his arrival in Medina according to some accounts, or in Shawwal (April-May 623) seven months after his arrival according to others. He had married her in Mecca three years before the Hijrah, after the death of Khadijah. At that time she was six or, according to other accounts, seven years old.

According to ‘Ab al-Hamid b. Bayan al-Sukkari- Muhammad b. Yazid- Isma‘il (that is, Ibn Abi Khalid)- ‘Abd al-Rahman b. Abi al-Dahhak- a man from Quraysh- ‘Abd al-Rahman b. Muhammad: ‘Abd Allah b. Safwan together with another person came to ‘A’ishah, and ‘A’ishah said (to the latter), "O so-and-so, have you heard what Hafsah has been saying?" He said, "Yes, O Mother of the Faithful." ‘Abd Allah b. Safwan asked her, "What is that?" She replied, "There are nine special features in me that have not been in any woman, except for what God bestowed on Maryam bt. ‘Imran. By God, I do not say this to exalt myself over any of my companions." "What are these?" he asked. She replied, "The angel brought down my likeness; the Messenger of God married me when I was seven; my marriage was consummated when I was nine; he married me when I was a virgin, no other man having shared me with him; inspiration came to him when he and I were in a single blanket; I was one of the dearest people to him, a verse of the Qur’an was revealed concerning me when the community was almost destroyed; I saw Gabriel when none of his other wives saw him; and he was taken (that is, died) in his house when there was nobody with him but the angel and myself."

Umm Ruman said that al-Mut‘im b. ‘Adi had asked ‘A’ishah’s hand for his son, but Abu Bakr had not promised anything. Abu Bakr left and went to Mut‘im while his wife, mother of the son for whom he had asked ‘A’ishah’s hand, was with him. She said, "O son of Abu Quhafah, perhaps we could marry our son to your daughter if you could make him leave his religion and bring him in to the religion which you practice." He turned to her husband al-Mut‘im and said, "What is she saying?" He replied, "She says [what you have heard]." Abu Bakr left, [realizing that] God had [just] removed the problem he had in his mind. He said to Khawlah, "Call the Messenger of God." She called him and he came. Abu Bakr married [‘A’ishah] to him when she was [only] six years old. (The History of Al-Tabari: The Last Years of the Prophet, translated and annotated by Ismail K. Poonawala [State University of New York Press, Albany 1990], Volume IX, pp. 129-130)

‘A’ishah states: We came to Medina and Abu Bakr took up quarters in al-Sunh among the Banu al-Harith b. al-Khazraj. The Messenger of God came to our house and men and women of the Ansar gathered around him. My mother came to me WHILE I WAS BEING SWUNG ON A SWING BETWEEN TWO BRANCHES AND GOT ME DOWN. Jumaymah, my nurse, took over and wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door, she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was then brought [in] while the Messenger of God was sitting on a bed in our house. [My mother] made me sit on his lap and said, "These are your relatives. May God bless you with them and bless them with you!" Then the men and women got up and left. The Messenger of God consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me. Only Sa‘d b. ‘Ubaidah sent a bowl of food which he used to send to the Messenger of God.

‘Ali b. Nasr- ‘Abd al-Samad b. ‘Abd al-Warith- ‘Abd al-Warith b. ‘Abd al-Samad- his father- Aban al-‘Attar- Hisham b. ‘Urwah- ‘Urwah: He wrote to ‘Abd al-Malik b. Marwan stating that he had written to him about Khadijah bt. Khuwaylid, asking him about when she died. She died three years or close to that before the Messenger of God’s departure from Mecca, and he married ‘A’ishah after Khadijah’s death. The Messenger of God saw ‘A’ishah twice- [first when] it was said to him that she was his wife (she was six years old at that time), and later [when] he consummated she was nine years old.

(The report goes back to Hisham b. Muhammad. See above, I, 1766). Then the Messenger of God married ‘A’ishah bt. Abi Bakr, whose name is ‘Atiq b. Abi Quhafah, who is ‘Uthman, and is called ‘Abd al-Rahman b. ‘Uthman b. ‘Amir b. ‘Amir b. Ka‘b b. Sa‘d b. Taym b. Murrah: [The Prophet] married her three years before the Emigration, when she was seven years old, and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old, after he had emigrated to Medina in Shawwal. She was eighteen years old when he died. The Messenger of God did not marry any maiden except her. (The History of al-Tabari, Volume IX, pp. 130-131)

‘A’ishah, daughter of Abu Bakr.
Her mother was Umm Ruman bt. ‘Umayr b. ‘Amr, of the Banu Duhman b. al-Harith b. Ghanm b. Malik b. Kinanah.
The Prophet married ‘A’ishah in Shawwal in the tenth year after the [beginning of his] prophethood, three years before Emigration. He consummated the marriage in Shawwal, eight months after Emigration. On the day he consummated the marriage with her she was nine years old.

IBN KATHIR

Yunus b. Bukayr stated, from Hisham b. ‘Urwa, from his father who said, "The Messenger of God (SAAS) married ‘A’isha three years after (the death of) Khadija.At that time (of the contract) ‘A’isha had been a girl of six. When he married her she was nine. The Messenger of God (SAAS) died when ‘A’isha was a girl of eighteen. "

This tradition is considered gharib (unique in this line).

Al-Bukhari had related, from ‘Ubayd b. Isma‘il, from Abu Usama, from Hisham b. ‘Urwa, from his father, who said, "Khadija died three years before the emigration of the Prophet (SAAS). He allowed a couple of years or so to pass after that, and then he contracted marriage with ‘A’isha when she was six, thereafter consummating marriage with her when she was nine years old."

The hafiz Ya‘qub b. Sufyan stated, "Al-Hajjaj related to us, that Hammad related to him, from Hisham b. ‘Urwa, from his father, from ‘A’isha, who said, ‘The Messenger of God (SAAS), contracted marriage with me (after) Khadija’s death and before his emigration from Mecca, when I was six years old. After we arrived in Medina some women came to me while I was playing on a swing; my hair was like that of a boy. They dressed me up and put make-up on me, then took me to the Messenger of God (SAAS), and he consummated our marriage. I was a girl of nine.’"

IBN QAYYIM

Next, the Prophet… married Um Abdallah, Aishah, as-Siddiqah (the truthful one), daughter of as-Siddiq (the truthful one) Abu Bakr ibn Abi Qu’hafah, whom Allah has exonerated from above the seven heavens. ‘Aishah bint Abu Bakr was the beloved wife of the Prophet… The angel showed Aishah… to the Prophet… while she was wrapped in a piece of silk cloth, before he married her, and said to him. "This is your wife." The Prophet… married Aishah… during the lunar month of Shawwal, when she was six, and consummated the marriage in the first year after the Hijrah, in the month of Shawwal, when she was nine. The Prophet… did not marry any virgin, except Aishah… and the revelation never came to him while he was under the blanket with any of his wives, except Aishah. (Ibn Qayyim Al-Juaziyyah, Zad-ul Ma’ad fi Hadyi Khairi-l ‘Ibad (Provisions for the Hereafter, From the Guidance of Allah’s Best Worshipper), translated by Jalal Abualrub, edited by Alaa Mencke & Shaheed M. Ali [Madinah Publishers & Distributors, Orlando, Fl: First edition, December 2000], Volume I, pp. 157-158)

MARTIN LINGS

During the same year that followed Khadijah’s death, the Prophet dreamed that he saw a man who was carrying someone wrapped in a piece of silk. The man said to him: "This is thy wife, so uncover her." The Prophet lifted the silk and there was ‘A’ishah. But ‘A’ishah was only six years old, and he had passed his fiftieth year. Moreover Abu Bakr had promised her to Mut‘im for his son Jubayr. The Prophet simply said to himself: "If this be from God, He will bring it to pass." …

Meantime Abu Bakr approached Mut‘im, who was persuaded without difficulty to forgo the marriage of ‘A’ishah to his son; and, some months after the marriage of Sawdah, ‘A’ishah also became the Prophet’s wife, through a marriage contracted by him and her father, at which she herself was not present. She said afterwards, that she had her first inkling of her new status when one day she was playing with her friends outside, not far from their house, and her mother came and too her by the hand and led her indoors, telling her that henceforth she must not go out to play, and that her friends must come to her instead. ‘A’ishah dimly guessed the reason, though her mother did not immediately tell her that she was married; and apart from having to play in their courtyard instead of in the roads, her life continued as before. (Lings, Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources [Inner Traditions, International, Ltd.; Rochester Vermont, 1983], pp. 105-106)

The Prophet and his daughters now went to live with Sawda in her new house; and after a month or two it was decided that ‘A’ishah’s wedding should take place.She was then only nine years old, a child of remarkable beauty, as might have been expected from her parentage…

Small preparations were made for the wedding- not enough, at any rate for ‘A’ishah to have had a sense of a great and solemn occasion, and shortly before they were due to leave the house she had slipped out into the courtyard to play with her passing friend. In her own words: "I was playing on a see-saw and my long streaming hair was disheveled. They came and took me from my play and made me ready."

Abu Bakr had bought some fine red-striped cloth from Bahrain and it had been made into a wedding-dress for her. In this they now clothed her. Then her mother took her to the newly built house where some women of the Helpers were waiting for her outside the door. They greeted her with the words "For good and for happiness- may all be well!" and led her into the presence of the Prophet. He stood their smiling and combed her hair and decked her with ornaments. Unlike his other marriages, at this there was no wedding feast… then they all went their ways, and the bridegroom and the bride were left together.

For the last three years scarcely a day had passed by without one or more of ‘A’ishah’s friends coming to play with her in the courtyard adjoining her father’s house. Her removal to the Prophet’s house changed nothing in this respect. Friends now came every day to visit her in her own apartment – new friends made since her arrival in Medina and also some of the old ones whose parents, like hers, had emigrated. "I would be playing with my dolls," she said, "with the girls who were my friends, and the Prophet would come in and they would steal out of the house and he would go out after them and bring them back, for he was pleased for my sake to have them there." Sometimes he would say "Stay where ye are" before they had time to move. He would also join in their games sometimes, FOR HE LOVED CHILDREN [Sam- meaning Aisha was only a child like them] and had often played with his own daughters. The dolls of puppets had many different roles. "One day," said ‘A’ishah, "the Prophet came in when I was playing with the dolls and he said: ‘O ‘A’ishah, whatever game is this?’ I said: ‘It is Solomon’s horses,’ and he laughed." But sometimes as he came in he would simply screen himself with his cloak so as not to disturb them. (Ibid., pp. 132-134)

SAIF-UR-RAHMAN AL-MUBARAKPURI

3. 'Aishah bint Abu Bakr: He married her in the eleventh year of Prophethood, a year after his marriage to Sawdah, and two years and five months before Al-Hijra.She was six years old when he married her. However, he did not consummate the marriage with her till Shawwal seven months after Al-Hijra, and that was in Madinah. She was nine then. She was the only virgin he married, and the most beloved creature to him. As a woman she was the most learnèd woman in jurisprudence. (Ar-Raheeq Al-Makhtum (THE SEALED NECTAR) Biography of the Noble Prophet, [Maktaba Dar-us-Salam Publishers & Distributors, First Edition 1995], "The Prophetic Household", p. 485)
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Old 12-11-2015, 07:36 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 754,395 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by int007 View Post

And brother I dont know which Book you read but there is not a single Scientific fact which contradicts Quran.
What colleges use the Quran as a science book? Here are just a few pieces of silliness in the Quran:

The Qur'an assumes a flat earth which has physical places into which the sun sets and rises from. Since the earth is a rotating sphere, the sun does not set in any particular place and you can never travel to "the spot" where the sun sets nor a place where it rises; the sun appears to set or rise on the horizon no matter where you are on the planet. In these verses, the author propagates a popular legend from the 7th century of a man named Dhu'l-Qarnayn who visits the places where the sun sets and rises; here he finds the sun going down into a muddy spring and later rising on a tribe with no coverings.

Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.
Qur'an 18:86
Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom.
Qur'an 18:90
Some Muslim Apologists have come up with creative interpretations of these verses to say that Dhu'l-Qrnayn only traveled until he reached "the west" or to a spot "at the time" when the sun set and not the "place" where the sun set. Unfortunately, these alternative interpretations are severely undermined by the context and Arabic words used in these verses, which instead point to a physical location. Again, we must ask why an all-knowing being would use such misleading verses that mimic the misconceptions and legends prevalent at the time if one of these alternative explanations is correct.


The author of the Qur'an does not seem to know the difference between stars (giant balls of gas thousands of times larger than the earth) and meteorites which are small rocky masses of debris which brighten up after entering the earth's atmosphere. Many ancient people confused the two, as meteorites look like stars that are streaking across the sky; this is why there were often called shooting stars or falling stars. In the following verse, the Qur'an claims that Allah uses stars as missiles to ward away devils. This repeats a common Arab myth at the time the Qur'an was first recited.

And verily We have beautified the world's heaven with stars/lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame.
Qur'an 67:5
Except such as snatch away something by stealth, and they are pursued by a flaming fire, of piercing brightness.
Qur'an 37:10


Stars are Located in the Nearest Heaven[edit]
Stars are spread throughout the Universe and there is no such thing as the "nearest" heaven or layer. Also, this verse is in keeping with the author's claim (Quran 71:15 as described above) that the seven heavens are arranged one above the other.

Surely We have adorned the nearest heaven with an adornment, the stars
Qur'an 37:6


The author of the Qur'an is also unaware that the elements in the Earth's crust and core were first formed in stars. Modern science has proposed that all the elements that make up the earth (Oxygen, Nitrogen, Carbon, Iron, etc.) was originally formed by nucleosynthesis in stars and then expelled into the universe when those stars supernova. Yet the Qur'an describes the earth being formed before the stars and from "smoke" or material that pre-dates stars. All rocky and gaseous planets in the universe were formed in a similar manner to the earth and the Qur'an singling out the earth only further highlights the authors ignorance of the history of the formation of celestial objects.

He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens. And He is knower of all things.
Qur'an 2:29

The Qur'an and Hadith contain statements about bodily fluids and the stages of development of the human embryo. Many of these descriptions are vague and unscientific. Most bear a striking resemblance to similar descriptions found in the Jewish Talmud and the ideas of ancient Greeks such as Galen, including their errors.

Sperm Originates Between the Backbone and Ribs[edit]
Main Article: Qur'an and Semen Production
The Qur'an states, incorrectly, that semen originates from a spot between the backbone and ribs. Today we know sperm comes from the testicles and semen from the pelvic region, which is not between the spine and ribs.

He is created from a drop emitted- Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs
Qur'an 86:6-7

The Qur'an's author did not mention the role of the ovum in human reproduction and appears to have no knowledge of it. This verse fails to mention the important role of the female egg, or ovum, plays in the reproduction of humankind. It implies that reproduction is caused simply by the male semen. The human ovum is very small, though visible to the human eye, and it's purpose wasn't understood in the 7th century. Again, we are left wondering why an all-knowing deity would omit such information.

He is created from a drop emitted
Qur'an 86:6
Humans Created from a Clot of Blood[edit]


Bones are Formed before Flesh[edit]
Main Article: Embryology in the Qur'an
The Qur'an explains that the bones of a human embryo are formed first and then covered up with flesh. Modern scientific studies and research have shown that the bones and muscles of a developing fetus are formed simultaneously.

Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones then (not and) clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!
Qur'an 23:14


Facing Toward Mecca[edit]
The Qur'an tells all Muslims to face in the direction of Mecca when they pray. However, this would only be possible on a flat Earth because it is not possible to bow down towards the direction of Mecca when you are on the opposite side of the earth. The author here presupposes a small world, local to Arabia, that is flat. Only in that world view can people everywhere face Mecca.

From whencesoever Thou startest forth, turn Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque; that is indeed the truth from the Lord. And Allah is not unmindful of what ye do.
Qur'an 2:149

The author of the Qur'an repeats a common view of the 7th century that the earth was a fixed and un-moving object with the stars, sun, and moon revolving around it. The author appears to be unaware that the earth is rotating around its axis and moving through space around the sun.

Is not He (better than your gods) Who has made the earth as a fixed abode, and has placed rivers in its midst, and has placed firm mountains therein, and has set a barrier between the two seas (of salt and sweet water). Is there any ilah (god) with Allah? Nay, but most of them know not.
Qur'an 27:61

Some of the highest death tolls from natural disasters in the last decade were in Muslim countries. In fact, natural disasters do not differentiate between Muslim or non-Muslim nations nor are they controlled by a divine being. Earth quakes are extremely common along tectonic fault lines and are not a punishment for human behavior but the byproduct of natural forces. The Qur'anic author perpetuates an unscientific understanding of his phenomena in there verses.

Do then those who devise evil (plots) feel secure that Allah will not cause the earth to swallow them up, or that the Wrath will not seize them from directions they little perceive?
Qur'an 16:45
But they denied him, and the dreadful earthquake took them, and morning found them prostrate in their dwelling place.
Qur'an 29:37

Every verse about rain in the Qur'an implies that rain comes either directly from the sky or from Allah. However evaporation of water into the air is conspicuously never mentioned.

That sends down (from time to time) rain from the sky in due measure;- and We raise to life therewith a land that is dead; even so will ye be raised (from the dead)
Qur'an 43:11


The Qur'anic author was superstitious about thunder and imagined this natural phenomena as an angel.

And the thunder declares His glory with His praise, and the angels too for awe of Him; and He sends the thunderbolts and smites with them whom He pleases, yet they dispute concerning Allah, and He is mighty in prowess.
Qur'an 13:13
Muslim sources, which explain this verse clearly, indicate that the author of the Qur'an believed that thunder was not an impersonal natural phenomenon, but an angel:

(The thunder hymneth His praise) by His command; it is an angel; it is also said: it is the voice of the sky (and (so do) the angels) and also the angels hymn His praise (for awe of Him) the angels have awe towards Allah. (He launcheth the thunder bolts) i.e. fire (and smiteth with them whom He will) He destroys by means of fire whoever He will, referring here to Zayd Ibn Qays whom Allah destroyed by fire, along with his friend ‘Amir Ibn al-Tufayl who was killed as a result of being stabbed in his waist (while they dispute (in doubt) concerning Allah) while they dispute with Muhammad (pbuh) concerning the Religion of Allah, (and He is mighty in wrath) His chastisement is severe
Tafsir Ibn-Abbas

Bees feed on nectar and pollen. However, the Qur'an relates that bees consume fruit.

And thy Lord taught the Bee to build its cells in hills, on trees, and in (men's) habitations; Then to eat of all the fruits (of the earth), and find with skill the spacious paths of its Lord: there issues from within their bodies a drink of varying colors, wherein is healing for men: verily in this is a Sign for those who give thought.
Qur'an 16:68-69


Ants typically communicate with each other using pheromone which are a chemical signal. While scientists have also discovered that ants make some noises, nothing has ever indicated that the brains of ants could produce such complex communication as is depicted in the Quranic story of Solomon and the ants. However, the Qur'an tells us that not only does an ant warn her fellow ants of the approach of a large army of humans, but it recognizes one of the humans as Solomon. Then, he also understands her speech. How an ant could even see that far or have known the identify of Solomon is never explained. This account of a talking ant is clearly a legend and not scientific.

At length, when they came to a (lowly) valley of ants, one of the ants said: "O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts crush you (under foot) without knowing it." So he smiled, amused at her speech; and he said: "O my Lord! so order me that I may be grateful for Thy favours, which thou hast bestowed on me and on my parents, and that I may work the righteousness that will please Thee: And admit me, by Thy Grace, to the ranks of Thy righteous Servants."
Qur'an 27:18-19


From WIKIISLAM, which has been taken off line due to Muslims threatening violence.
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Old 12-12-2015, 08:54 AM
 
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Brother, since you posted a wall of text which cannot be answered in one post because I dont want to write a book here so I will answer it one by one in due course of time. It is requested that you discuss such topic one point at a time so it would be easy for both of us and for others too, because due to huge mountain of text it gets boring for others as well.

Quote:
juju33312 Wrote
he finds the sun going down into a muddy spring and later rising on a tribe with no coverings....
The specific verse in question Chapter 18:86 says:

{حَتَّىٰ إِذَا بَلَغَ مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْسِ وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ فِي عَيْنٍ حَمِئَةٍ}

When taking a look through varyious translations we gather what the verse is actually saying:

Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it [as if] setting in a spring of dark mud... [Saheeh International]

Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water... [Yusuf Ali]

[And he marched westwards] till, when he came to the setting of the sun, it appeared to him that it was setting in a dark, turbid sea [Muhammad Asad]

Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea... [Shakir]

Until when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he perceived it setting in a miry spring... [Abdul Majid Daryabadi]

Until, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he saw it setting in a spring of hot and black muddy water... [Ali Unal]

Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring... [Pickthall]

until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring... [Arthur John Arberry]

until he reached the West and saw the sun setting in a pool of black mud... [N J Dawood]

After looking at a few translation of the verse it becomes clear what the verse is saying. The verse clearly says Dhul-Qarnayn travelled to the end of the land (i.e. until he reached the sea), as far west as he could travel. When he travelled west and reached the coast, there was no more land in this direction (on is route to travel westward), there was only the ocean, and the sun was setting. And as he looked across the murky body of water he saw the sun setting at the horizon.

So what does the Quran actually say, does it state the sun enters the murky spring as the critics claim? The Quran was revealed in Arabic so to answer this we need to do a linguistic analysis of the verse.

Linguistic Analysis

{حَتَّىٰ إِذَا بَلَغَ مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْسِ وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ فِي عَيْنٍ حَمِئَةٍ}

Until, when he reached the setting of the sun (maghrib), he found (wajada) it set (taghrubu) in a spring of murky water...

The main words in question in this verse are:

مَغْرِبَ (Maghrib)

وَجَدَ (Wajada)

تَغْرُبُ (Taghrubu)

Meaning of مَغْرِبَ (Maghrib)

The word “maghrib” [مغرب] is literally meaning something that is doing غرب, or loosely (but commonly): “west” or “sunset”.

According to Almu'jam Alwaseet المعجمالوسيط( Arabic dictionary published by Academy_of_the_Arabic_Language ):

المغرب
مكان غروب الشمس
وزمان غروبها
وجهة غروبها
وبلاد المغرب البلاد الواقعة في شمال إفريقية في غربي مصر وهي ليبيا وتونس والجزائر ومراكش
ومملكة المغرب اليوم الجزء الواقع في أقصى بلاد المغرب في غربي الجزائر ويحدها البحر
المغرب

So, it's :
Place of sunset
Time of sunset
Point of sunset
Countries located in North Africa in the west of Egypt ( Libya, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco)
The Kingdom of Morocco ( Called Maghrib in arabic )

Maghrib is used in other verses of the Quran where the word does indeed mean “west”, such as {رَبُّ الْمَشْرِقِ وَالْمَغْرِبِ} in Chapter 26:28 meaning “Lord of the east and the west”.

So according to:
Almu'jam Alwaseet المعجمالوسيط
Vocabulary of the Holy Qur'an page 447
Arabic-English Dictionary of Quranic Usage page 661
Al-Mawrid Arabic-English Dictionary page 1077
Hans Wehr Arabic-English Dictionary, 3rd Edition page 669
مَغْرِبَ (Maghrib) means:
Place of Sunset, i,e west as the sun sets in the west
Time of Sunset
West
Sunset
According to:
Arabic-English Dictionary of Quranic Usage page 661
Hans Wehr Arabic-English Dictionary, 3rd Edition Page 669
مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْسِ used in Surah 18:86 should be understood to mean:
Time of Sunset
Place of Sunset, i.e. west as the sun sets in the west.

So when Allah says "Until, when he reached the setting of the sun (maghrib)" it can either mean:
He reached the time of Sunset.
Or Dhul-Qarnayn reached the western part of his empire where there was no longer any land.
Meaning of وَجَدَ (Wajada)

وَجَدَ (Wajada) can mean to find/perceive/see/discover/experience.

This verse doesn't state the sun goes into a body of water, there are no implications of this at all. What the verse states is that Dhul-Qarnayn found/saw/perceived the sun setting in a body of water, which would obviously be the case when he travelled as far west as possible until there was no more land to travel on. Just as one can easily do if they visit the sea-side and watch the sunset.
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Old 12-12-2015, 02:16 PM
 
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Quote:
juju33312 Wrote:
the Qur'an claims that Allah uses stars as missiles to ward away devils. This repeats a common Arab myth at the time the Qur'an was first recited.

And verily We have beautified the world's heaven with stars/lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame.
Qur'an 67:5
Except such as snatch away something by stealth, and they are pursued by a flaming fire, of piercing brightness.
Qur'an 37:10
the above appears to be an adapted translation from Yusuf Ali. Usually Arberry is more literal in his translations; he translates this verse as:

And We adorned the lower heaven with lamps, and made them things to stone Satans; and We have prepared for them the chastisement of the Blaze.

Note that the Arberry translation does not say they are to "drive away" Satans; these words are also not found in the Pickthall or Asad translations.

We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars, (for beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious Satans.

(So) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side.

-- Sura 37:6-8

The above is from the Yusuf Ali translation.

See also Suras 15:16-18, 55:33-35 etc. which seem to speak about the same thing.

The stars were created by Allah as missiles to throw at the devils? In order to not let them eavesdrop on the heavenly coucil? Not exactly a "scientific" world view.

Jochen misinterprets the meaning of these verses. When they are understood correctly, we see that they constitute no problem regarding the Qur'an and science.

What is meant by these verses? Marmaduke Pickthall writes, in a short comment on 67:5 in his translation of the Qur'an:

On the authority of a tradition going back to Ibn `Abbas, the allusion is to the soothsayers and astrologers who saw the source of good and evil in the stars.

Muhammad Asad's commentary on 67:5, in his translation and commentary to the Qur'an, reports that Baydawi also said that the allusion here is to astrologers, who are here denoted as "Satanic" due to their misguidance in trying to foretell the future.

Given this information, a clear understanding presents itself. Astrologers and soothsayers observe celestial phenomena, such as the positions of the planets and stars in the sky, and occurrences such as meteors (or "shooting stars"), in order to try to foretell the future. However, the Qur'an replies to them, saying that these people are "Satanic." It furthermore says (in 67:5) that, rather than being a source of guidance for them, these celestial phenomena are there to "stone" them. This means, their misuse of celestial phenomena, and misguidance, will be a source of punishment for them on that Day when all will be held to account.

The other verses say that the heavens are made "secure" from these "Satanic" astrologers and soothsayers. Regarding this, Muhammad Asad, in his commentary on 15:17, writes:

The statement that God has made the heavens "secure" against such satanic forces obviously implies that He has made it impossible for the latter to obtain, through astrology or what is popularly described as "occult sciences," any real knowledge of "that which is beyond the reach of human perception" (al-ghayb).

Thus we see, that when properly understood, these verses present no problem regarding science, because they are not talking about celestial phenoema as objects of scientific study, but instead talking about celestial phenomena as sources of misguidance for soothsayers and astrologers. In brief, the Qur'an simply says about them that for astrologers, their misguidance regarding celestial phenomena will be a source of punishment for them, and that they can gain no information about the future by trying to look at the stars.
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Old 12-12-2015, 02:47 PM
 
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Quote:
juju33312 Wrote:
Stars are Located in the Nearest Heaven[edit]
Stars are spread throughout the Universe and there is no such thing as the "nearest" heaven or layer. Also, this verse is in keeping with the author's claim (Quran 71:15 as described above) that the seven heavens are arranged one above the other.

Surely We have adorned the nearest heaven with an adornment, the stars
Qur'an 37:6

"We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,- (The Noble Quran, 37:6)"

"God is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that God has power over all things, and that God comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge. (The Noble Quran, 65:12)"


As clearly proven above in the article, the "...seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number..." means that GOD Almighty Created 7 different Heavens or Universes or Galaxies (name it as you wish), and 7 earths and seven properties for our earth (as it has been scientifically proven with the 7 inner layers and 7 atmospheric layers), and most possibly 7 properties of the remaining 6 earths. The "and of the earth a similar number" means that GOD Almighty Created the 7 earths with the same properties and qualities. The number "seven" Sign in the Noble Quran is the Miraculous Sign for all of the Earths that GOD Almighty Created along with our Mother Earth.

The two Noble Verses that the critics usually raise are separate, because the word "heaven" DOES perfectly mean either atmosphere or space (the outer space outside our earth's ozone layer) IN ARABIC. The Noble Word "Samawat" (heavens) means different things throughout the Noble Quran.

As Allah Almighty Created 7 Ozone Layers and 7 different Heavens, it is quite possible that He made the number 7 be a MIRACULOUS SIGN for all the earths and Heavens that He Created. Meaning, seven earths, seven heavens each containing one earth, and each earth's atmosphere is divided into 7 layers, and each earth has 7 CONTINENTS, and seven inner layers.
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Old 12-12-2015, 03:01 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 754,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by int007 View Post
Brother, since you posted a wall of text which cannot be answered in one post
Hey, I want to make sure I do not ignore the context.

Answer my first question:

Which universities use the Quran as a textbook in their science programs?

Yale? Harvard? MIT? Stanford? Oxford? Cambridge? Columbia?

Certainly if the Quran was full of amazing and verified scientific knowledge, and has offered this knowledge since Muhammed's time, all the Universities would be using the Quran as their BASIC tool of knowledge!

Which universities use the Quran as a textbook in their science programs?
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Old 12-12-2015, 03:04 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 754,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by int007 View Post
the above appears to be an adapted translation from Yusuf Ali. Usually Arberry is more literal in his translations; he translates this verse as:

And We adorned the lower heaven with lamps, and made them things to stone Satans; and We have prepared for them the chastisement of the Blaze.

Note that the Arberry translation does not say they are to "drive away" Satans; these words are also not found in the Pickthall or Asad translations.

We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars, (for beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious Satans.

(So) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side.

-- Sura 37:6-8

The above is from the Yusuf Ali translation.

See also Suras 15:16-18, 55:33-35 etc. which seem to speak about the same thing.

The stars were created by Allah as missiles to throw at the devils? In order to not let them eavesdrop on the heavenly coucil? Not exactly a "scientific" world view.

Jochen misinterprets the meaning of these verses. When they are understood correctly, we see that they constitute no problem regarding the Qur'an and science.

What is meant by these verses? Marmaduke Pickthall writes, in a short comment on 67:5 in his translation of the Qur'an:

On the authority of a tradition going back to Ibn `Abbas, the allusion is to the soothsayers and astrologers who saw the source of good and evil in the stars.

Muhammad Asad's commentary on 67:5, in his translation and commentary to the Qur'an, reports that Baydawi also said that the allusion here is to astrologers, who are here denoted as "Satanic" due to their misguidance in trying to foretell the future.

Given this information, a clear understanding presents itself. Astrologers and soothsayers observe celestial phenomena, such as the positions of the planets and stars in the sky, and occurrences such as meteors (or "shooting stars"), in order to try to foretell the future. However, the Qur'an replies to them, saying that these people are "Satanic." It furthermore says (in 67:5) that, rather than being a source of guidance for them, these celestial phenomena are there to "stone" them. This means, their misuse of celestial phenomena, and misguidance, will be a source of punishment for them on that Day when all will be held to account.

The other verses say that the heavens are made "secure" from these "Satanic" astrologers and soothsayers. Regarding this, Muhammad Asad, in his commentary on 15:17, writes:

The statement that God has made the heavens "secure" against such satanic forces obviously implies that He has made it impossible for the latter to obtain, through astrology or what is popularly described as "occult sciences," any real knowledge of "that which is beyond the reach of human perception" (al-ghayb).

Thus we see, that when properly understood, these verses present no problem regarding science, because they are not talking about celestial phenoema as objects of scientific study, but instead talking about celestial phenomena as sources of misguidance for soothsayers and astrologers. In brief, the Qur'an simply says about them that for astrologers, their misguidance regarding celestial phenomena will be a source of punishment for them, and that they can gain no information about the future by trying to look at the stars.
You are breaking the rules of this forum. You are supposed to give credit to the site where you copied your stuff from:

Response to Stars created to be thrown at devils?
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Old 12-13-2015, 08:12 AM
 
88 posts, read 35,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Hey, I want to make sure I do not ignore the context.

Answer my first question:

Which universities use the Quran as a textbook in their science programs?

Yale? Harvard? MIT? Stanford? Oxford? Cambridge? Columbia?

Certainly if the Quran was full of amazing and verified scientific knowledge, and has offered this knowledge since Muhammed's time, all the Universities would be using the Quran as their BASIC tool of knowledge!

Which universities use the Quran as a textbook in their science programs?
lol you mistaken Quran as book of Science, Quran is not a book of Science, it is the Book of Signs. You will not find scientific theories in this book, there are signs for humans. did you expect theories of Albert Eienstine

I did not know about giving credit to the site and the that site is not the original author because there are commentaries of different scholars in that article, anyway I will ensure it in future.
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Old 12-13-2015, 08:33 AM
 
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Quote:
The author of the Qur'an is also unaware that the elements in the Earth's crust and core were first formed in stars. Modern science has proposed that all the elements that make up the earth (Oxygen, Nitrogen, Carbon, Iron, etc.) was originally formed by nucleosynthesis in stars and then expelled into the universe when those stars supernova. Yet the Qur'an describes the earth being formed before the stars and from "smoke" or material that pre-dates stars. All rocky and gaseous planets in the universe were formed in a similar manner to the earth and the Qur'an singling out the earth only further highlights the authors ignorance of the history of the formation of celestial objects.

He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens. And He is knower of all things.
Qur'an 2:29
“It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover (thumma) His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.” (Quran 2:29)

The word “thumma” besides meaning “then” it also means “moreover” or “simultaneously.” Alhumdulillah Abdullah Yusuf Ali has translated “thumma” correctly here as “moreover.”

Some places the Quran says that Allah created the earth and heavens.

“A revelation from Him Who created the earth and the heavens on high.” (Quran 20:4)

“It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover (thumma) His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.” (Quran 2:29)

In other places the Quran says that Allah created the heavens and the earth.

“Say: "Shall I take for my protector any other than God, the Maker of the heavens and the earth?... ” (Quran 6:14)

“It is He who created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions):….” (Quran 6:73)

In some places it says “heavens and the earth”, In some places it says “earth and the heavens” confirming the Big Bang theory that both of them were created simultaneously. The Quran too confirms the Big Bang Theory.

“Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?” (Quran 21:30)

Taken from Point-by-Point Response and Summary of Rebuttal to Ali Sina.
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Old 12-13-2015, 11:41 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 754,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by int007 View Post
lol you mistaken Quran as book of Science, Quran is not a book of Science, it is the Book of Signs. You will not find scientific theories in this book, there are signs for humans. did you expect theories of Albert Eienstine

I did not know about giving credit to the site and the that site is not the original author because there are commentaries of different scholars in that article, anyway I will ensure it in future.
You are joking, right? The Quran, according to YOU, was written by the thing that CREATED THE UNIVERSE!!!! That book would be in every science class, every humanities class, every history class!! In this book, the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE tell all! How the earth is flat and that the Moon is at least as far as the stars and how sperm comes from between the loins and ribs. Try that answer on your biology test! lol
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