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Old 12-09-2015, 04:23 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000_Watts View Post
You're right that many (not all) of Christian atrocities took place during the Dark Ages. That doesn't change the fact, however. All I'm saying is that we can't sit here and denigrate one religion when our predominant religion is guilty of many of the same atrocities we're blaming on Islam. Regardless if they occurred last week or last millenium.

And there's no shortage of "cults" using God's name to spew hate and dischord. Westboro Baptist Church is still going strong about 60 miles to my west...
Let's start by comparing Muhammed and Jesus.

Muhammed had sex with a n4th grader. Muhammed owned and traded slaves. Muhammed and hos men attacked unarmed villages, slaughtered the men and boys and then mass raped the women and girls. Then they sold the women or enslaved them. Muhammed had people slaughtered for making fun of him. Muhammed was obsessed with women's periods and made little children suck on his tongue. Muhanned demanded hate and terrorism for all non-Muslims. Muhammed is the prophet of Islam and the perfect example of conduct for Muslims.

Which of these things did Jesus do?

Tell me about abrogation as it relates to the Quran.

I live in a country of mostly Christians. I am an atheist and a woman. Besides the rare knock on my door from Jehovah's Witnesses, I have no interference from Christians. I live as I like. A country of majority Christians was founded on individual rights and secularism.

What started the crusades?
(Hint: it is only after MANY Islamic aggressive invasions that Western Christendom launches its first Crusades.)
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:28 PM
 
14,192 posts, read 6,100,552 times
Reputation: 8847
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000_Watts View Post
You're right that many (not all) of Christian atrocities took place during the Dark Ages. That doesn't change the fact, however. All I'm saying is that we can't sit here and denigrate one religion when our predominant religion is guilty of many of the same atrocities we're blaming on Islam. Regardless if they occurred last week or last millenium.

And there's no shortage of "cults" using God's name to spew hate and dischord. Westboro Baptist Church is still going strong about 60 miles to my west...
Regardless of whether they occurred last week or last millinium?

How can you not see the difference between atrocities occuring centuries ago and atrocities occurring today? It's not rocket science to understand that Islam needs to reform or be separated from the rest of us. Yes, I know lots of them are peace-loving, and I do believe that because it's human nature to want peace and happiness. It's just that the ideology of the one segment of Islam causing all this extremism is growing, not being marginalized by their people. That's not a good trend.

And give it a rest with the Westboro Baptist Church. Those guys are complete idiots who are marginalized by nearly everyone, including most Christians. AND THEY'VE NEVER KILLED ANYONE!
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,265 posts, read 5,486,975 times
Reputation: 4046
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Now the POLITICALLY CORRECT crowd would say that Islamists cannot be prohibited from entering the United States because ISLAM IS A RELIGION.

IS IT IRRATIONAL FEAR AND HATRED?
PHOBIA - A persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid it, despite the awareness and reassurance that it is not dangerous.

ISLAMOPHOBIA - hatred or fear of Muslims or of their politics or culture.
Islam demands jihad, eternal warfare until everyone in the world is converted, conquered or dead. Over 250 millions were killed in the 1400 years of “peaceful” Islam. Islam imposes a brutal legal system - shari’ah. It’s “perfect man” was a plagiarist, pedophile, kidnapper, rapist, murderer, and warlord, who is to be copied as the “ideal.” Blood thirsty jihad and peaceful spirituality are simultaneously embraced. No other religious ideology teaches the inferiority of women, the killing and hatred of all infidels, the execution of homosexuals, the silencing of free speech, forced amputations, the stoning of rape victims, genital mutilation, and the violent overthrow of all non-Islamic governments and civilizations.

If you aren’t afraid of Islam or hate its evil nature, you are irrational, abnormal, or a candidate to be converted. Because Islam is a contradiction, expressing sublime morality on one hand (Mecca period) and bloodthirsty pillage, conquest, slavery, pedophilia and rape on the other (Medina period). All manner of evil and predation is condoned as long as the victim is Kafir (infidel), or it advances “pure” Islam, or mimics their Prophet, the “Perfect Ideal.”

One can only conclude that Islam is not a religion, but is a predatory system. Islam is destructive to any civilization that is based on the Law of Love and that is opposed to the Law of the Jungle. The fact that Islam is entirely combative, contradictory and intolerant toward all non-Islamic societies makes it clear. Non-Muslims must come to grips of what Islam actually is, and close down all Mosques, Muslim schools and deport them all.

Or “surrender.”
There is no “peaceful co-existence” with endless jihad.

. . .
This is basically a garbage statement that reflects fundamentalists of the Islam religion. Indonesia and Turkey have two of the largest "pure" Muslim populations in the world. Both have most of the same freedoms found in many western countries. At least one woman (perhaps two) have been Prime Minister in Turkey.

Our "christian" nation has allowed "christian" fundamentalists to go to Africa and teach hatred of homosexuals--so much that Uganda (who has great respect for American "christians") made an attempt in 2014 (I think) to institute a law providing for the death penalty for homosexuals (yes, Rick Warren was one who went over there).
Quote:
--certain US evangelicals, such as Lively and pastor Warren, have a history of missionary work in Uganda and have become influential in shaping public policy in Uganda and other countries. Kaoma characterized their attempts to portray homosexuals as a threat to the African family as especially egregious, putting people's lives in danger: "When you speak like that, Africans will fight to the death.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda...lity_Act,_2014

I also thought it quite interesting that Donald Trump is so strong on protecting the 2nd Amendment but has no problem at all trampling on the 1st Amendment rights of American Muslims---all six or seven million of them.

Look around the world. Whether it is Islam or Christianity or even Buddhism, it the fundamentalists of those religions causing a vast amount of the unrest in nations---christians certainly responsible for the inability of Congress in the U.S. to compromise over the past 20 years--thank you Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and James Dobson. Give any radical religionist a "holy" book that is "perfect" and is more important than people--and no atrocity or inflammatory words or actions are out of line for them. Their "god" made them do it--and even blesses them for it.

Last edited by Wardendresden; 12-09-2015 at 04:47 PM..
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Manhattan, NYC
900 posts, read 630,683 times
Reputation: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Let's start by comparing Muhammed and Jesus.

Muhammed had sex with a n4th grader. Muhammed owned and traded slaves. Muhammed and hos men attacked unarmed villages, slaughtered the men and boys and then mass raped the women and girls. Then they sold the women or enslaved them. Muhammed had people slaughtered for making fun of him. Muhammed was obsessed with women's periods and made little children suck on his tongue. Muhanned demanded hate and terrorism for all non-Muslims. Muhammed is the prophet of Islam and the perfect example of conduct for Muslims.

Which of these things did Jesus do?

Tell me about abrogation as it relates to the Quran.

I live in a country of mostly Christians. I am an atheist and a woman. Besides the rare knock on my door from Jehovah's Witnesses, I have no interference from Christians. I live as I like. A country of majority Christians was founded on individual rights and secularism.

What started the crusades?
(Hint: it is only after MANY Islamic aggressive invasions that Western Christendom launches its first Crusades.)
Where to start? Even in the New Testament, there are lot of violent verses.

- Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery.
- In the parable of the unforgiving servant, the king threatens to enslave a man and his entire family to pay for a debt. This practice, which was common at the time, seems not to have bothered Jesus very much.
- Peter claims that Dt 18:18-19 refers to Jesus, saying that those who refuse to follow him (all non-Christians) must be killed.
- Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death" - - along with gossips, boasters, and disobedient children.

Etc... and of course, you can find harsher verses in the Old Testament, similar to what you listed. However, that's not the point. The point is that in any scriptures, you will find very violent or detestable verses that were socially "acceptable" when written and therefore not explicitly condemned, e.g. slavery or treatment of the women. As long as this is not clear, all scriptures can be considered archaic and seen as a regression. All of them.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:55 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,497 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gasolin View Post
Where to start? Even in the New Testament, there are lot of violent verses.

- Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery.
- In the parable of the unforgiving servant, the king threatens to enslave a man and his entire family to pay for a debt. This practice, which was common at the time, seems not to have bothered Jesus very much.
- Peter claims that Dt 18:18-19 refers to Jesus, saying that those who refuse to follow him (all non-Christians) must be killed.
- Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death" - - along with gossips, boasters, and disobedient children.

Etc... and of course, you can find harsher verses in the Old Testament, similar to what you listed. However, that's not the point. The point is that in any scriptures, you will find very violent or detestable verses that were socially "acceptable" when written and therefore not explicitly condemned, e.g. slavery or treatment of the women. As long as this is not clear, all scriptures can be considered archaic and seen as a regression. All of them.
OK, so you can't point to Jesus doing any of the things that Muhammed did. OK.

In the bible, the later verses in the New Testament are altruistic, love your neighbor. Any vague reference to that in the Quran was abrogated by later verses.

As an atheist, I have no dog in this fight, but I am rational and I can see what is in the hadiths and Quran and I can see what is happening in Europe and across the world. I can talk to around 3,000 Muslims and find out what they really think. And it's sickening.

Here's an ex-Muslim that speaks the truth:
WATCH: Woman Who Was Raised Muslim Just Dropped Truth Bomb About Islam EVERY Lib MUST See
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Austin TX
5,967 posts, read 3,457,630 times
Reputation: 8068
Quote:
Originally Posted by katygirl68 View Post
And give it a rest with the Westboro Baptist Church. Those guys are complete idiots who are marginalized by nearly everyone, including most Christians. AND THEY'VE NEVER KILLED ANYONE!
As repugnant as their methods are, this is the truth. They are all schooled to an extremely high degree in American law and as far as I know, have never broken ONE in their journey to be America's biggest aholes. They have no place in a discussion of religious violence.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:34 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,371 posts, read 1,500,543 times
Reputation: 3870
Religion is the problem. The desert trilogy is the worst problem. Of the desert trilogy Islam in recent years has become ever more strident, aggressive, non-secularized. The fact that many Western Muslims now tend to wear religious garb is to some extent a result of that ongoing non secularization (Can it be anything else?) Along with religious piety goes devoutness. Along with being devout sometimes there's a tendency toward possible fundamentalism.
Even 15 years ago it was pretty rare to see Western Muslims wearing religious garb. My question to those who insist on doing so, why do it? This is the 21st bloody century and you're living in the West, not in the 7th century, or 'downtown' Tora Bora.
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Old 12-09-2015, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Dallas
5,601 posts, read 4,929,432 times
Reputation: 16459
Quote:
Originally Posted by elan View Post
So, the press left out parts of the story, I'm so surprised - not. It was some guy telling his wife the girl was a crappy driver and should go back to Saudi Arabia. The girl catches wind of it and confronts him, it then escalates. Oh brother. It was a private conversation, not to mention the initial comments are nothing. If you drive in the larger cities, you best get used to it. What's she going to do when someone blares their horn, leans out the window and shoots her the finger? Get a case of the vapors? No wonder the other patrons sided with the guy. My first response still stands, either grow a thicker skin or get out of the kitchen.
Another example of the media omitting vital facts in order to present the story in a way that fits their agenda. And they wonder why no one trusts them?
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Old 12-09-2015, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Dallas
5,601 posts, read 4,929,432 times
Reputation: 16459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyp25 View Post
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Outstanding!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-09-2015, 06:36 PM
 
5,267 posts, read 2,699,218 times
Reputation: 5144
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post


Hammer meet nail! What a great answer! Thanks for posting this.
Your welcome, she nails it!
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