U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-15-2015, 11:27 AM
 
352 posts, read 308,269 times
Reputation: 54

Advertisements

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.


Quote:
However we are in this Islamic Forum, so the evils from other sources are off topic. We should addressed other types of evils and violence in their respective forum, but here we can only talk about Islam.
Therefore you should not try to deflect by introducing other non-topical issues, e.g. NWO, Communism, Politics, Democracy, etc.

The evils from other sources are certainly not off topic, as they are conflicting and stand in the way of real Peace, Islam. These other sources commit heinous crimes and blame it on Muslims. How does that serve Islam? Please explain.



Quote:
If the Muslims of ISIS are doing exactly what Allah expect them to do as per the Quran, then how can you say they are wrong?
Besides Who Are You [me or anyone] as a fallible human slave to Allah to judge for Allah?
Rate this post positively
They believe they are doing what is expected of them, but the majority of Muslims, see them as being in error. Destroying Masajid/Mosques, killing Muslims, and innocent civilians, abusing women, et cetera. How can anyone be so wrong?




Wassalaam. devotee
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-15-2015, 11:42 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,510 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post
Destroying Masajid/Mosques, killing Muslims, and innocent civilians, abusing women, et cetera. How can anyone be so wrong?

Wassalaam. devotee
Well, Muslims have been doing this since Muhammed came along. Just since 1946 over 10 million Muslims have been slaughtered by other Muslims (and not by ISIS). Muhammed himself raped women and encouraged his men to do the same. Islamic terrorism started long before there was an Israel. Sunni and Shia Muslims have been killing each other since the death of Mohammed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-15-2015, 11:50 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,450 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.

The evils from other sources are certainly not off topic, as they are conflicting and stand in the way of real Peace, Islam. These other sources commit heinous crimes and blame it on Muslims. How does that serve Islam? Please explain.

They believe they are doing what is expected of them, but the majority of Muslims, see them as being in error. Destroying Masajid/Mosques, killing Muslims, and innocent civilians, abusing women, et cetera. How can anyone be so wrong?

Wassalaam. devotee
This forum is related to Islam. Thus whatever evil that has nothing to do with Islam is to be avoided. I meant for examples, the evils and violence related to drug cartels, violence by Christians, Buddhists, murders, and those not related to Islam at all.


I agree, if any acts done by non-Muslims and has an impact on Muslims' freedom to practice their religion, then that is certainly on topic. It is not only for Muslims to complain but that is applicable to followers of any religions who are hindered in their practice.


If there are obvious and justified threat to any religion or believers, then the believers has the right to complain via the proper authorities.


However there is a big problem with Islam, Muslims and the Quran.
1. The Quran [words of Allah] exhort Muslims to defend the religion if it is under threat and sanction the killing of non-Muslims.
2. The problem the definition of 'threat' is very vague, i.e. 'corruption' mischiefs, wronged and the likes and Islam is also antinomous, i.e. it is both truly good and evil.
3. Because the terms that justify violence are vague, they inspire SOME evil prone Muslim to perceive every act of non-Muslims related to Muslims are a threat to the religion.
4. For example the drawing of cartoon is a good excuse to riot and kill Muslims. The promotion of education is deemed a threat to Islam [e.g. Malala, Boko Haram, etc.].
5. The worst is because it is sanctioned by Allah as in the Quran, therefore every Muslim is duty bound to be his own persecutor, jury and judge which is very dangerous and this has really happened around the world with real evils and violence.


Therefore there is something wrong with Islam via the Quran [& Hadith] is such a manner that it allow individuals to take the Law into their own hands to commit terrible evils and violence on non-Muslims and even some Muslims.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-16-2015, 02:58 AM
 
88 posts, read 35,006 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Well, Muslims have been doing this since Muhammed came along. Just since 1946 over 10 million Muslims have been slaughtered by other Muslims (and not by ISIS). Muhammed himself raped women and encouraged his men to do the same. Islamic terrorism started long before there was an Israel. Sunni and Shia Muslims have been killing each other since the death of Mohammed.
What about Christians Killed Christians in WWI and WWII their numbers are huge
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-16-2015, 03:15 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,450 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by int007 View Post
What about Christians Killed Christians in WWI and WWII their numbers are huge
Note Christians were killing Christians in WWI and WWII but they none of them shouted Jesus u Akbar!!


Note there were soldiers who were Christians, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Sikhs killing each other during WWII and they were fighting for specific countries on a political basis and not for their religion.


Most Muslims [not all] fight with a leverage and inspirations from their religion, i.e. the Quran [& hadiths], Allah and Muhammad with the hope they will be favored by Allah on Judgment Day. In war they are supposed to cry Allah u Akbar!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-16-2015, 05:54 AM
 
352 posts, read 308,269 times
Reputation: 54
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.




Quote:
I agree, if any acts done by non-Muslims and has an impact on Muslims' freedom to practice their religion, then that is certainly on topic. It is not only for Muslims to complain but that is applicable to followers of any religions who are hindered in their practice.
To whom should Muslims complain regarding 9-11? Muslims cannot even mention inside job re: 9-11, before someone jumps-up with "conspiracy theory." You yourself are suggesting that there is no conspiracy, but blame Muslims. Is that correct?


Quote:
2. The problem the definition of 'threat' is very vague, i.e. 'corruption' mischiefs, wronged and the likes and Islam is also antinomous, i.e. it is both truly good and evil.
Surely, Islam is under threat. How else to explain the gunning down of unarmed Muslims, (and perhaps, civilians?) in Nigeria just recently. The Muslims there are knowledgeable of the Zionist threat from Israel. I've tried to explain the Zionist role in the NWO's, total world domination, on this forum, but I suppose it is taken to be a conspiracy theory.



Quote:
Therefore there is something wrong with Islam via the Quran [& Hadith] is such a manner that it allow individuals to take the Law into their own hands to commit terrible evils and violence on non-Muslims and even some Muslims.
These individuals you've mentioned, are they not part of the ISIS, group? Suggestions in the news media are to the effect of ISIS being a mercenary group, mostly foreigners from across the world. Disgruntled youths, looking for work. They may have received a crash course in Islamic affairs. Seemingly, mostly Ahadith, with maybe, a little Qur'an. How else would you explain their lack of compassion? Their lack of love, for fellow Muslims? Their abuse towards women and children?



Wassalaam. devotee
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-16-2015, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,282,205 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note Christians were killing Christians in WWI and WWII but they none of them shouted Jesus u Akbar!!


Note there were soldiers who were Christians, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Sikhs killing each other during WWII and they were fighting for specific countries on a political basis and not for their religion.


Most Muslims [not all] fight with a leverage and inspirations from their religion, i.e. the Quran [& hadiths], Allah and Muhammad with the hope they will be favored by Allah on Judgment Day. In war they are supposed to cry Allah u Akbar!
Yes I see that all the time. The media seems to always report that terrorists shout Allahu Akbar (Which means God id Greater) But I have never heard of a terrorists shouting Bismillah which means "In the Name of Allah"

Actually the meaning of AllahuAkbar differs depending upon the context is is used in some of the things it can mean

God is Great

God is Greater

God is the Greatest

Allah is Great

Allah is Greater

Allah is the Greatest

But it does not mean "In the name of Allah" as the media often seems to suggest and what some non-Muslims seem to believe.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-16-2015, 11:43 AM
 
88 posts, read 35,006 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note Christians were killing Christians in WWI and WWII but they none of them shouted Jesus u Akbar!!


Note there were soldiers who were Christians, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Sikhs killing each other during WWII and they were fighting for specific countries on a political basis and not for their religion.


Most Muslims [not all] fight with a leverage and inspirations from their religion, i.e. the Quran [& hadiths], Allah and Muhammad with the hope they will be favored by Allah on Judgment Day. In war they are supposed to cry Allah u Akbar!
That is what you need to understand, if Christians would have shouted Jesus name while killing, should we blame Christianity for that ? absolutely not.

and yes in war they say AllahuAkbar but not while killing innocent people who are walking on the street and pose no harm but in the battle field both will try to kill each other
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-16-2015, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,450 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Yes I see that all the time. The media seems to always report that terrorists shout Allahu Akbar (Which means God id Greater) But I have never heard of a terrorists shouting Bismillah which means "In the Name of Allah"

Actually the meaning of AllahuAkbar differs depending upon the context is is used in some of the things it can mean

God is Great

God is Greater

God is the Greatest

Allah is Great

Allah is Greater

Allah is the Greatest

But it does not mean "In the name of Allah" as the media often seems to suggest and what some non-Muslims seem to believe.
Saying 'God is Great' has the same implication of 'In the name of Allah'.


When the media mentioned 'In the name of Allah' it is relating to the phrase 'strive for the cause of Allah, 'strive in the way of Allah with your life and wealth' as mentioned in many verses in the Quran.
If a Muslim does that they are greatly rewarded and if a Muslim don't do that they may not get enough merit points in their Iliyin to qualify to go to paradise with eternal life and their bonus of virgins and other superlative sensual delights.


The gist is SOME Muslims commit those terrible evils and violence [in our eyes are evil but to them are good as sanctioned by Allah] as a duty to strive for the cause of Allah as their obligation in the covenant they 'signed up' with Allah.


It is stated in the Quran, Allah will promise and assure them of victory over non-Muslims in every battle, that is one reason why they shouted Allahu Akbar. It does not follow to say Bismillah which more appropriate for other purposes, e.g. slaughtering for food, etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-16-2015, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,450 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by int007 View Post
That is what you need to understand, if Christians would have shouted Jesus name while killing, should we blame Christianity for that ? absolutely not.

and yes in war they say AllahuAkbar but not while killing innocent people who are walking on the street and pose no harm but in the battle field both will try to kill each other
It is not a blanket principle that shouting the name of the founder of the religion meant we blame the religion.
Some Buddhists may have shouted 'In the name of Buddha' when they kill others but it has nothing to do with the religion.
In such a situation we have to cross reference the evil acts committed by the Buddhists to the core scriptures of Buddhism. There are no leading and motivating evil verses in the core scriptures of Buddhism that condone and motivate Buddhists to commit terrible evils and violence.
We have to do the same for Christianity which has an override pacifist maxim in the New Testament [this is the core text of Christianity, not the Old Testament].


However it is a different issue for Islam.
The Quran has evil laden verses [dressed in very vague and ambiguous terms] in it whole context that sanction and exhort Muslims to kill non-Muslims in their striving for the cause of Allah or in the way of Allah with their life and their wealth. Such evil laden verses catalyze and inspire SOME [not all] evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence on non-Muslims while shouting Allahu Akbar. This is a reality that has happened since Muhammad's time till the present.


Allahu Akbar is sort of an habituated cry by SOME Muslims.
When SOME of these Muslims who has been habituated with the cry of Allahu Akbar, they would have said it when killing innocent people walking on the street. I don't have actual evidence [yet] but based on such a principle, it is very plausible.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top