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Old 01-08-2016, 01:00 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,862 times
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If a female Muslim who do not wear a hijab that cover her hair all her adult life*, how do you think Allah will judge her on Judgment Day?
* or in the phase of her life that she is supposed to wear the hijab that cover her hairs.


Will she end up in Hell?
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Old 01-08-2016, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
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While we can not earn our way into heaven, good deeds can cancel out sins. I have no way of knowing how anyone will be judged as I do not know how anyones good deeds and sins balnce the scales of justice.

It is possible that a non-Hijabi Muslimah has performed so much good that her not wearing a hijab is non-consequential

Allaah(swt) will judge us all fairly and weigh or good with our bad. As long as our good outweighs the bad our bad will be of little consequence. Hell is composed of layers, the highest level not very much different from life on earth and the deepest levels beyond description horrible. Virtually all of us will spend at least some time in Hell, the amount of good we do can determine the level and amount of time we spend there.

I am not certain as to what level of responsibility wearing a Hijab is. The preponderance of scholars give the impression it is fiqh, required and not wearing it will result in punishments. A minority believe it is Sunnah there is no punishment for not wearing it, but there are rewards for doing so. A smaller minority believe it is Halal, no punishment for not wearing it and no rewards for wearing it.

No matter which, if she dies as a Muslim she will eventually reach heaven..
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Old 01-08-2016, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,862 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
While we can not earn our way into heaven, good deeds can cancel out sins. I have no way of knowing how anyone will be judged as I do not know how anyones good deeds and sins balnce the scales of justice.
Allaah(swt) will judge us all fairly and weigh or good with our bad. As long as our good outweighs the bad our bad will be of little consequence.
Since you agree Allah will judge fairly, Allah's basis judgment has to be objective. Allah cannot be subjective and favor some Muslims because they are more handsome, beautiful/sexy or based on some other subjective biasness.


Btw, the process of judgment by Allah in the hereafter is mentioned in the Quran that cover the procedures from one's death to one final destination of Paradise or Hell.


Since Allah is fair, we do not expect Allah to suddenly bring in any undeclared conditions on Judgment Day. Surely it would be unfair of Allah to bring in a rule which is not declared by Allah anywhere in the Quran to judge a Muslim or someone on Judgment Day. For example, a Muslims is punished to hell because s/he did not drink coffee everyday in his/her adult life. This is definitely unfair of Allah as such a condition was never stipulated in the Quran as a term of the covenant.


Therefore the basis of judgment has to be based on the terms and conditions as stated in the Quran as per the covenant Muslims made with Allah and no where else.



Quote:
It is possible that a non-Hijabi Muslimah has performed so much good that her not wearing a hijab is non-consequential.
As explained above, it is unfair for Allah to judge on terms and conditions that were never stipulated in Allah's words as in the Quran.


The wearing of the hijab by a Muslimah to cover her hair was never a term and condition of the covenant a Muslimah made with Allah. There are no such term in the Quran, i.e. the sole words of Allah. There are no verses in the Quran that stipulate a Muslimah must cover her hair.


Therefore Allah will not give a damn and will not waste time to judge whether a Muslimah wear a hijab that covered her hair or not.
The question of a hair-covering-jihab is moot and has no relevance to Allah.

Quote:
Hell is composed of layers, the highest level not very much different from life on earth and the deepest levels beyond description horrible. Virtually all of us will spend at least some time in Hell, the amount of good we do can determine the level and amount of time we spend there.
From what I read of the Quran, what is after physical death is termed the hereafter. The hereafter is initially the grave, then the person is resurrected to be tarried in another layer of hereafter in suspension. Thereafter the soul is called upon as line in rows in a yard for judgment. It is upon and after judgment that a person is sent to the layers of Hell or different Paradise.

Quote:
I am not certain as to what level of responsibility wearing a Hijab is. The preponderance of scholars give the impression it is fiqh, required and not wearing it will result in punishments. A minority believe it is Sunnah there is no punishment for not wearing it, but there are rewards for doing so. A smaller minority believe it is Halal, no punishment for not wearing it and no rewards for wearing it.
As stated above Allah will judged based on his own words, i.e. which is solely from the Quran and no where else.
The terms and conditions as established by Allah can only be from the Quran which is the only source of Allah's words via Gabriel and Muhammad starting in 610AD.


The consensus of the Scholars do not necessary comply in accordance to Allah words.
It is obvious Allah [his sole words in the Quran] did not mention the hijab must cover the hair of the Muslimah.
The Scholars who insist on a hair-covering hijab are forcing words into Allah's throat.


Note this man-made rule of a hair-covering hijab has caused so much evils and violence, i.e. innocent girls are killed, injured, condemned for not wearing the hijab or worn in wrongly.



Quote:
No matter which, if she dies as a Muslim she will eventually reach heaven..
Not if the self-claimed Muslim is judged to be a hypocrite, commit unpardonable sins, and the likes.
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Old 01-09-2016, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Since you agree Allah will judge fairly, Allah's basis judgment has to be objective. Allah cannot be subjective and favor some Muslims because they are more handsome, beautiful/sexy or based on some other subjective biasness.


Btw, the process of judgment by Allah in the hereafter is mentioned in the Quran that cover the procedures from one's death to one final destination of Paradise or Hell.


Since Allah is fair, we do not expect Allah to suddenly bring in any undeclared conditions on Judgment Day. Surely it would be unfair of Allah to bring in a rule which is not declared by Allah anywhere in the Quran to judge a Muslim or someone on Judgment Day. For example, a Muslims is punished to hell because s/he did not drink coffee everyday in his/her adult life. This is definitely unfair of Allah as such a condition was never stipulated in the Quran as a term of the covenant.


Therefore the basis of judgment has to be based on the terms and conditions as stated in the Quran as per the covenant Muslims made with Allah and no where else.



As explained above, it is unfair for Allah to judge on terms and conditions that were never stipulated in Allah's words as in the Quran.


The wearing of the hijab by a Muslimah to cover her hair was never a term and condition of the covenant a Muslimah made with Allah. There are no such term in the Quran, i.e. the sole words of Allah. There are no verses in the Quran that stipulate a Muslimah must cover her hair.


Therefore Allah will not give a damn and will not waste time to judge whether a Muslimah wear a hijab that covered her hair or not.
The question of a hair-covering-jihab is moot and has no relevance to Allah.

From what I read of the Quran, what is after physical death is termed the hereafter. The hereafter is initially the grave, then the person is resurrected to be tarried in another layer of hereafter in suspension. Thereafter the soul is called upon as line in rows in a yard for judgment. It is upon and after judgment that a person is sent to the layers of Hell or different Paradise.

As stated above Allah will judged based on his own words, i.e. which is solely from the Quran and no where else.
The terms and conditions as established by Allah can only be from the Quran which is the only source of Allah's words via Gabriel and Muhammad starting in 610AD.


The consensus of the Scholars do not necessary comply in accordance to Allah words.
It is obvious Allah [his sole words in the Quran] did not mention the hijab must cover the hair of the Muslimah.
The Scholars who insist on a hair-covering hijab are forcing words into Allah's throat.


Note this man-made rule of a hair-covering hijab has caused so much evils and violence, i.e. innocent girls are killed, injured, condemned for not wearing the hijab or worn in wrongly.



Not if the self-claimed Muslim is judged to be a hypocrite, commit unpardonable sins, and the likes.

There is a difference between guidance and command. The Qur'an is primary a book of Guidance. The one solid command that leaves no leeway is that we shall worship none but Allaah(swt) Every thing else is basically telling us why.


One can follow the Qur'an to the literal letter and never be a Muslim and never reach heaven. One can also never even see a Qur'an have virtually no knowledge of what is in it and still be a Muslim and reach one of the hifghest levels of Heaven.

Being Muslim is 99.9% intent. To such a high level that we will be rewarded for our good and sincere intentions even if we never achieve them.

Being Muslim is not about rules and commands it is about loving Allaah(swt), desiring to spend eternity with him and doing our best to accept and submit to him Alone.


Surah 2 pretty well tells who will reah heaven, note 2:112


Nay, but whosoever surrendereth his purpose to Allah while doing good, his reward is with his Lord; and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. - 2:112 (Picktall)

To look at in in perspective


Many of the People of the Scripture long to make you disbelievers after your belief, through envy on their own account, after the truth hath become manifest unto them. Forgive and be indulgent (toward them) until Allah give command. Lo! Allah is Able to do all things. - 2:109 (Picktall)

Establish worship, and pay the poor due; and whatever of good ye send before (you) for your souls, ye will find it with Allah. Lo! Allah is Seer of what ye do. - 2:110 (Picktall)

And they say: None entereth Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian. These are their own desires. Say: Bring your proof (of what ye state) if ye are truthful. - 2:111 (Picktall)

Nay, but whosoever surrendereth his purpose to Allah while doing good, his reward is with his Lord; and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. - 2:112 (Picktall)

And the Jews say the Christians follow nothing (true), and the Christians say the Jews follow nothing (true); yet both are readers of the Scripture. Even thus speak those who know not. Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that wherein they differ. - 2:113 (Picktall)

And who doth greater wrong than he who forbiddeth the approach to the sanctuaries of Allah lest His name should be mentioned therein, and striveth for their ruin? As for such, it was never meant that they should enter them except in fear. Theirs in the world is ignominy and theirs in the Hereafter is an awful doom. - 2:114 (Picktall)

Unto Allah belong the East and the West, and whithersoever ye turn, there is Allah's countenance. Lo! Allah is All Embracing, All Knowing. - 2:115 (Picktall)

Our side of the covenant with Allaah(swt) is "We will acknowledge there is only one God, and he has no equals, partners or progeny, only He is to be worshiped."

How we interpret the Qur'an or how well we follow it is not part of our promise (Covenant) with Allaah(swt)

We will not get into heaven based upon how well we follow the Qur'an but on Allaah(swt)'s mercy alone. We do know that we all will be judged on the basis of our good intention and deed vs our evil deeds. We are promised rewards for the Good we do and punishment for the evil we do.

The Qur'an does state in many places that Allaah(swt) is close to us. lt also tells us what is expected of us and He will guide us to heaven


"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"

"Then Praise be to Allah, Lord of the heavens and Lord of the earth- Lord and Cherisher of all the worlds! To Him be Glory throughout the heavens and the earth: and He is Exalted in Power, Full of Wisdom!. (The Noble Quran, 45:36-37)"

"Say: 'O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)! Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.' If then they turn back, say ye: 'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).' (The Noble Quran, 3:64)"

"It was We Who Created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him: for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein. (The Noble Quran, 50:16)"

"When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. (The Noble Quran, 2:186)"

Verses 26:88-91 "The Day whereon neither wealth nor sons will avail, But only he (will prosper) that brings to God a sound heart; to the righteous, the Garden will be brought near, and to those straying in Evil, the Fire will be placed in full view."

"O mankind! [this includes all races and all nations] We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other. Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well-acquainted. (The Noble Quran, 49:13)"

"It is He Who has Created you [humans]; and of you [humans] are some that are unbelievers, and some that are believers: And Allah sees well all that ye do. He has created the heavens and the earth in just portions, and has given you [humans] shape, and made your shapes beautiful: and to Him is the final Goal. He knows what is in the heavens and on earth; and He knows what ye conceal and what ye reveal: Allah Knows well the (secrets) of (all) hearts. (The Noble Quran, 64:2-4)"

"O ye men! It is ye that have need of Allah: but Allah is the One free of all wants, worthy of all praise. If He so pleased, He could blot you out and bring in a new creation, Nor is that difficult for Allah. (The Noble Quran, 35:15-17)"

"When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. (The Noble Quran, 2:186)"

Allaah(swt) has also told us what we will be punished and rewarded for:

The Qur'an does inform us that what is true in the past scriptures is still applicable to all. The Qur'an does not negate past scripture, they are still applicable. The Qur'an does reierate the truth contained within them and The 10 commandments are still applicable to Muslims. The 10 commandments have been referred to in several places in the Qur'an

"Take and hold these with firmness, and enjoin thy people to hold fast by the best in the precepts: soon shall I show you the homes of the wicked,- (How they lie desolate)." (The Noble Quran, 7:145)"

"When Moses came back to his people, angry and grieved, he said: "Evil it is that ye have done in my place in my absence: did ye make haste to bring on the judgment of your Lord?" He put down the tablets, seized his brother by (the hair of) his head, and dragged him to him. Aaron said: "Son of my mother! the people did indeed reckon me as naught, and went near to slaying me! Make not the enemies rejoice over my misfortune, nor count thou me amongst the people of sin." (The Noble Quran, 7:150)"

"When the anger of Moses was appeased, he took up the tablets: in the writing thereon was guidance and Mercy for such as fear their Lord. (The Noble Quran, 7:154)

"It was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to God's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of God's book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers. (The Noble Quran, 5:44)"

"Of the people of Moses (i.e., the Jews) there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth. (The Noble Quran, 7:159)"

Getting back to Topic. The Qur'an is not a new revelation. It does enjoin us to do as the Jews, Sabeeans and Christians were also to do. It simply returns us to the path of worshiping the only God(swt)

We are rewarded and punished for the very same things the Jews, Sabeeans and Christians were told they will be rewarded and punished for.



The Qur'an is quite filled with that the greatest way to be rewarded in heaven is through good deeds and Charity.


Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;
(Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #3)



It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing.
(Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #177)



And spend of your substance in the cause of Allah, and make not your own hands contribute to (your) destruction; but do good; for Allah loveth those who do good.
(Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #195)



They ask thee what they should spend (In charity). Say: Whatever ye spend that is good, is for parents and kindred and orphans and those in want and for wayfarers. And whatever ye do that is good, -(Allah) knoweth it well.
(Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #215)



O ye who believe! spend out of (the bounties) We have provided for you, before the Day comes when no bargaining (Will avail), nor friendship nor intercession. Those who reject Faith they are the wrong-doers.
(Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #254)


Whoever brings a good deed (Islamic Monotheism and deeds of obedience to Allah and His Messenger SAW) shall have ten times the like thereof to his credit, and whoever brings an evil deed (polytheism, disbelief, hypocrisy, and deeds of disobedience to Allah and His Messenger SAW) shall have only the recompense of the like thereof, and they will not be wronged. (Al-Anaam, Chapter #6, Verse #160)

"... and whatever you do of good deeds, truly, Allaah knows it well.'' (2:215)



The parable of those who spend their substance in the way of Allah is that of a grain of corn: it groweth seven ears, and each ear Hath a hundred grains. Allah giveth manifold increase to whom He pleaseth: And Allah careth for all and He knoweth all things.
(Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #261)



"And whatever good you do, (be sure) Allaah knows it.'' (2:197)



Those who spend their substance in the cause of Allah, and follow not up their gifts with reminders of their generosity or with injury,-for them their reward is with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
(Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #262)

And the likeness of those who spend their substance, seeking to please Allah and to strengthen their souls, is as a garden, high and fertile: heavy rain falls on it but makes it yield a double increase of harvest, and if it receives not Heavy rain, light moisture sufficeth it. Allah seeth well whatever ye do.
(Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #265)



And whatever ye spend in charity or devotion, be sure Allah knows it all. But the wrong-doers have no helpers.
(Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #270)



Those who (in charity) spend of their goods by night and by day, in secret and in public, have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
(Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #274)



Those who show patience, Firmness and self-control; who are true (in word and deed); who worship devoutly; who spend (in the way of Allah.; and who pray for forgiveness in the early hours of the morning.
(Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #17)



What they spend in the life of this (material) world May be likened to a wind which brings a nipping frost: It strikes and destroys the harvest of men who have wronged their own souls: it is not Allah that hath wronged them, but they wrong themselves.
(Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #117)



Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity, or in adversity; who restrain anger, and pardon (all) men;- for Allah loves those who do good;-
(Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #134)



Not those who spend of their substance, to be seen of men, but have no faith in Allah and the Last Day: If any take the Evil One for their intimate, what a dreadful intimate he is!
(An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #38)



Hast thou not turned Thy vision to those who were told to hold back their hands (from fight) but establish regular prayers and spend in regular charity? ... .... Say: "Short is the enjoyment of this world: the Hereafter is the best for those who do right: Never will ye be dealt with unjustly in the very least!
(An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #77)



On those who believe and do deeds of righteousness there is no blame for what they ate (in the past), when they guard themselves from evil, and believe, and do deeds of righteousness,- (or) again, guard themselves from evil and believe,- (or) again, guard themselves from evil and do good. For Allah loveth those who do good.
(Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #93)



For, Believers are those who, when Allah is mentioned, feel a tremor in their hearts, and when they hear His signs rehearsed, find their faith strengthened, and put (all) their trust in their Lord; Who establish regular prayers and spend (freely) out of the gifts We have given them for sustenance: Such in truth are the believers: they have grades of dignity with their Lord, and forgiveness, and generous sustenance:
(Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #2 and #3 and #4)



... ... Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.
(Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #60)



O ye who believe! there are indeed many among the priests and anchorites, who in Falsehood devour the substance of men and hinder (them) from the way of Allah. And there are those who bury gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah. announce unto them a most grievous penalty- On the Day when heat will be produced out of that (wealth) in the fire of Hell, and with it will be branded their foreheads, their flanks, and their backs, their flanks, and their backs.- "This is the (treasure) which ye buried for yourselves: taste ye, then, the (treasures) ye buried!"
(At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #34 and #35)



Say: "spend (for the cause) willingly or unwillingly: not from you will it be accepted: for ye are indeed a people rebellious and wicked." The only reasons why their contributions are not accepted are: that they reject Allah and His Messenger. that they come to prayer without earnestness; and that they offer contributions unwillingly.
(At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #53 and #54)



There is no blame on those who are infirm, or ill, or who find no resources to spend (on the cause), if they are sincere (in duty) to Allah and His Messenger. no ground (of complaint) can there be against such as do right: and Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
(At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #91)



The vanguard (of Islam)- the first of those who forsook (their homes) and of those who gave them aid, and (also) those who follow them in (all) good deeds,- well- pleased is Allah with them, as are they with Him: for them hath He prepared gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein for ever: that is the supreme felicity.
(At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #100)



Nor could they spend anything (for the cause) - small or great- nor cut across a valley, but the deed is inscribed to their credit: that Allah may requite their deed with the best (possible reward).
(At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #121)



Those who patiently persevere, seeking the countenance of their Lord; Establish regular prayers; spend, out of (the gifts) We have bestowed for their sustenance, secretly and openly; and turn off Evil with good: for such there is the final attainment of the (eternal) home,- Gardens of perpetual bliss: they shall enter there, as well as the righteous among their fathers, their spouses, and their offspring: and angels shall enter unto them from every gate (with the salutation): "Peace unto you for that ye persevered in patience! Now how excellent is the final home!"
(Ar-Rad, Chapter #13, Verse #22 to #24)



Speak to my servants who have believed, that they may establish regular prayers, and spend (in charity) out of the sustenance we have given them, secretly and openly, before the coming of a Day in which there will be neither mutual bargaining nor befriending.
(Ibrahim, Chapter #14, Verse #31)



Allah sets forth the Parable (of two men: one) a slave under the dominion of another; He has no power of any sort; and (the other) a man on whom We have bestowed goodly favours from Ourselves, and he spends thereof (freely), privately and publicly: are the two equal? (By no means praise be to Allah. But most of them understand not.
(An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #75)



And render to the kindred their due rights, as (also) to those in want, and to the wayfarer: But squander not (your wealth) in the manner of a spendthrift. Verily spendthrifts are brothers of the Evil Ones; and the Evil One is to his Lord (himself) ungrateful.
(Al-Isra, Chapter #17, Verse #26 and #27)



Say (to the disbelievers): "If you possessed the treasure of the Mercy of my Lord (wealth, money, provision, etc.), then you would surely hold back (from spending) for fear of (being exhausted), and man is ever miserly!"

(Al-Isra, Chapter #17, Verse #100)



(He hath made it) Straight (and Clear) in order that He may warn (the godless) of a terrible Punishment from Him, and that He may give Glad Tidings to the Believers who work righteous deeds, that they shall have a goodly Reward,
(Al-Kahf, Chapter #18, Verse #2)



Wealth and sons are allurements of the life of this world: But the things that endure, good deeds, are best in the sight of thy Lord, as rewards, and best as (the foundation for) hopes.
(Al-Kahf, Chapter #18, Verse #46)



"And Allah doth advance in guidance those who seek guidance: and the things that endure, good deeds, are best in the sight of thy Lord, as rewards, and best in respect of (their) eventual return."
(Maryam, Chapter #19, Verse #76)



And We made them leaders, guiding (men) by Our Command, and We sent them inspiration to do good deeds, to establish regular prayers, and to practise regular charity; and they constantly served Us (and Us only).
(Al-Anbiya, Chapter #21, Verse #73)



To those whose hearts when Allah is mentioned, are filled with fear, who show patient perseverance over their afflictions, keep up regular prayer, and spend (in charity) out of what We have bestowed upon them.
(Al-Hajj, Chapter #22, Verse #35)



Then those whose balance (of good deeds) is heavy,- they will attain salvation:
(Al-Mumenoon, Chapter #23, Verse #102)



Those who, when they spend, are not extravagant and not *****rdly, but hold a just (balance) between those (extremes);
(Al-Furqan, Chapter #25, Verse #67)



Unless he repents, believes, and works righteous deeds, for Allah will change the evil of such persons into good, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful,
(Al-Furqan, Chapter #25, Verse #70)



Twice will they be given their reward, for that they have persevered, that they avert Evil with Good, and that they spend (in charity) out of what We have given them.
(Al-Qasas, Chapter #28, Verse #54)



If any does good, the reward to him is better than his deed; but if any does evil, the doers of evil are only punished (to the extent) of their deeds.
(Al-Qasas, Chapter #28, Verse #84)



But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness - to them shall We give a Home in Heaven,- lofty mansions beneath which flow rivers,- to dwell therein for aye;- an excellent reward for those who do (good)!-
(Al-Ankaboot, Chapter #29, Verse #58)



Their limbs do forsake their beds of sleep, the while they call on their Lord, in Fear and Hope: and they spend (in charity) out of the sustenance which We have bestowed on them. Now no person knows what delights of the eye are kept hidden (in reserve) for them - as a reward for their (good) deeds.
(As-Sajda, Chapter #32, Verse #16 and #17)



For those who believe and do righteous deeds are Gardens as hospitable homes, for their (good) deeds.
(As-Sajda, Chapter #32, Verse #19)



Say: "Verily my Lord enlarges and restricts the Sustenance to such of his servants as He pleases: and nothing do ye spend in the least (in His cause) but He replaces it: for He is the Best of those who grant Sustenance.
(Saba, Chapter #34, Verse #39)



Those who rehearse the Book of Allah, establish regular Prayer, and spend (in Charity) out of what We have provided for them, secretly and openly, hope for a commerce that will never fail:
(Fatir, Chapter #35, Verse #29)



Then We have given the Book for inheritance to such of Our Servants as We have chosen: but there are among them some who wrong their own souls; some who follow a middle course; and some who are, by Allah.s leave, foremost in good deeds; that is the highest Grace.
(Fatir, Chapter #35, Verse #32)



And when they are told, "spend ye of (the bounties) with which Allah has provided you," the Unbelievers say to those who believe: "Shall we then feed those whom, if Allah had so willed, He would have fed, (Himself)?- Ye are in nothing but manifest error."
(Ya Seen, Chapter #36, Verse #47)



That is (the Bounty) whereof Allah gives Glad Tidings to His Servants who believe and do righteous deeds. Say: "No reward do I ask of you for this except the love of those near of kin." And if any one earns any good, We shall give him an increase of good in respect thereof: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Ready to appreciate (service).
(Ash-Shura, Chapter #42, Verse #23)



Those who hearken to their Lord, and establish regular Prayer; who (conduct) their affairs by mutual Consultation; who spend out of what We bestow on them for Sustenance;
(Ash-Shura, Chapter #42, Verse #38)



Such will be the Garden of which ye are made heirs for your (good) deeds (in life).
(Az-Zukhruf, Chapter #43, Verse #72)



"Whosoever does a good deed, it is for his ownself...'' (45:15)



Such shall be Companions of the Gardens, dwelling therein (for aye): a recompense for their (good) deeds.
(Al-Ahqaf, Chapter #46, Verse #14)



Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost: for Allah is with you, and will never put you in loss for your (good) deeds.
(Muhammad, Chapter #47, Verse #35)



Behold, ye are those invited to spend (of your substance) in the Way of Allah. But among you are some that are *****rdly. But any who are *****rdly are so at the expense of their own souls. But Allah is free of all wants, and it is ye that are needy. If ye turn back (from the Path), He will substitute in your stead another people; then they would not be like you!
(Muhammad, Chapter #47, Verse #38)



.... .... Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.
(Al-Fath, Chapter #48, Verse #29)



(To them will be said "Eat and drink ye, with profit and health, because of your (good) deeds."
(At-tur, Chapter #52, Verse #19)



Yea, to Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: so that He rewards those who do evil, according to their deeds, and He rewards those who do good, with what is best.
(An-Najm, Chapter #53, Verse #31)



Believe in Allah and His apostle, and spend (in charity) out of the (substance) whereof He has made you heirs. For, those of you who believe and spend (in charity),- for them is a great Reward.
(Al-Hadid, Chapter #57, Verse #7)



And what cause have ye why ye should not spend in the cause of Allah.- For to Allah belongs the heritage of the heavens and the earth. Not equal among you are those who spent (freely) and fought, before the Victory, (with those who did so later). Those are higher in rank than those who spent (freely) and fought afterwards. But to all has Allah promised a goodly (reward). And Allah is well acquainted with all that ye do.
(Al-Hadid, Chapter #57, Verse #10)



O ye who believe! When ye consult the Messenger in private, spend something in charity before your private consultation. That will be best for you, and most conducive to purity (of conduct). But if ye find not (the wherewithal), Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful. Is it that ye are afraid of spending sums in charity before your private consultation (with him)? If, then, ye do not so, and Allah forgives you, then (at least) establish regular prayer; practise regular charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.
(Al-Mujadila, Chapter #58, Verse #12 and #13)



O ye who believe! Let not your riches or your children divert you from the remembrance of Allah. If any act thus, the loss is their own. and spend something (in charity) out of the substance which We have bestowed on you, before Death should come to any of you and he should say, "O my Lord! why didst Thou not give me respite for a little while? I should then have given (largely) in charity, and I should have been one of the doers of good".
(Al-Munafiqoon, Chapter #63, Verse #9 and #10)



So fear Allah as much as ye can; listen and obey and spend in charity for the benefit of your own soul and those saved from the covetousness of their own souls,- they are the ones that achieve prosperity.
(At-Taghabun, Chapter #64, Verse #16)



Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style as ye live, according to your means: Annoy them not, so as to restrict them. And if they carry (life in their wombs), then spend (your substance) on them until they deliver their burden: and if they suckle your (offspring), give them their recompense: and take mutual counsel together, according to what is just and reasonable. And if ye find yourselves in difficulties, let another woman suckle (the child) on the (father's) behalf.
(At-Talaq, Chapter #65, Verse #6)



Let the man of means spend according to his means: and the man whose resources are restricted, let him spend according to what Allah has given him. Allah puts no burden on any person beyond what He has given him. After a difficulty, Allah will soon grant relief.
(At-Talaq, Chapter #65, Verse #7)



But those most devoted to Allah shall be removed far from it,- Those who spend their wealth for increase in self-purification, And have in their minds no favour from anyone for which a reward is expected in return, But only the desire to seek for the Countenance of their Lord Most High; And soon will they attain (complete) satisfaction.
(Al-Lail, Chapter #92, Verses #17 and #18 to #21)



"So whosoever does good equal to the weight of an atom (or a small ant), shall see it.'' (99:7)

Then, he whose balance (of good deeds) will be (found) heavy, Will be in a life of good pleasure and satisfaction.
(Al-Qaria, Chapter #101, Verse #6 and 7)



But he whose balance (of good deeds) will be (found) light,- Will have his home in a (bottomless) Pit. And what will explain to thee what this is? (It is) a Fire Blazing fiercely!
(Al-Qaria, Chapter #101, Verse #8 to 11)

Your questions are based upon the assumption that the Qur'an is a book of commands and constitute our covenant with Allaah(swt) which is an error. The Qur'an is telling us why we should be Muslims and guides us in how to live a peaceful life. Your questions are not about Islam, they are more of a non-Muslim perspective of Islam.
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Last edited by Woodrow LI; 01-09-2016 at 06:24 AM..
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Old 01-09-2016, 08:31 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
While we can not earn our way into heaven, ........

No matter which, if she dies as a Muslim she will eventually reach heaven..
So we cannot earn our way into heaven, but we can earn our way into heaven by being a Muslim.

And certainly there are hundreds of verses in the Quran about how disbelievers will be tortured by Allah for eternity.

"fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.....And those who disbelieve and deny Our signs - those will be companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally.....And for the disbelievers is a humiliating punishment.....Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers......And for the disbelievers is a painful punishment.....And whoever disbelieves - I will grant him enjoyment for a little; then I will force him to the punishment of the Fire, and wretched is the destination......Indeed, those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers - upon them will be the curse of Allah and of the angels and the people, all together......And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.......And whoever of you reverts from his religion [to disbelief] and dies while he is a disbeliever - for those, their deeds have become worthless in this world and the Hereafter, and those are the companions of the Fire, they will abide therein eternally.......And Allah does not like every sinning disbeliever.......give us victory over the disbelieving people...... And He revealed the Qur'an. Indeed, those who disbelieve in the verses of Allah will have a severe punishment, and Allah is exalted in Might, the Owner of Retribution..... And it is disbelievers who are fuel for the Fire.....they disbelieved Our revelations and so Allah seized them for their sins. And Allah is severe in punishment......Say to those who disbelieve, "You will be overcome and gathered together to Hell, and wretched is the resting place.".......Allah does not like the disbelievers.

It goes on and on like this for hundreds and hundreds of verses!
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Old 01-09-2016, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,862 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Getting back to Topic.

The Qur'an is not a new revelation. It does enjoin us to do as the Jews, Sabeeans and Christians were also to do. It simply returns us to the path of worshiping the only God(swt)

We are rewarded and punished for the very same things the Jews, Sabeeans and Christians were told they will be rewarded and punished for.

You are way off topic which is how will Allah judge a Muslimah with reference to her wearing of the hijab that cover all her hair.


Yes, the Quran is not a new revelation, but there are no original versions of the "Quran" in existence prior to Muhammad because all of the existence holy texts of the Jews, Sabeans and Christians have been corrupted.
According to the words of Allah in the Quran which is complete and perfect, Muslims must therefore follow the Quran [MGA-610] and nothing else.


Thus the explicit concepts of 'love your enemies,' the Golden Rule and other progressive and more humane elements in the NT are not in the so-claimed perfect and complete revelation of the Quran.


By not including the above and other more progressive and humane elements, the Quran [which is partly more aggressive, evil and violent] is actually regressing backward in terms of spirituality and morality.
This is why there is so much terrible evils and violence that is committed by SOME evil prone Muslims who are inspired by the lots of backward evil laden element in the Quran.


Quote:
The Qur'an is quite filled with that the greatest way to be rewarded in heaven is through good deeds and Charity.
Good deeds, INDEED!!


If a Muslim were to do good deeds of loving his/her enemies, be intimate friend with or take Jew, Christians and non-Muslims as guardians [awliyaa] partners-associates[not deity], the Muslims will be destined to be burnt in the most evil ways in Hell.


Quote:
There is a difference between guidance and command. The Qur'an is primary a book of Guidance. The one solid command that leaves no leeway is that we shall worship none but Allaah(swt) Every thing else is basically telling us why.
Quote:

One can follow the Qur'an to the literal letter and never be a Muslim and never reach heaven. One can also never even see a Qur'an have virtually no knowledge of what is in it and still be a Muslim and reach one of the hifghest levels of Heaven.

Being Muslim is 99.9% intent. To such a high level that we will be rewarded for our good and sincere intentions even if we never achieve them.

Being Muslim is not about rules and commands it is about loving Allaah(swt), desiring to spend eternity with him and doing our best to accept and submit to him Alone.

Surah 2 pretty well tells who will reah heaven, note 2:112
Nay, but whosoever surrendereth his purpose to Allah while doing good, his reward is with his Lord; and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. - 2:112 (Picktall)
The concept of whether the Quran is a 'book of command or not' is your straw man which you introduced for yourself to make your own condemnation. It has nothing to do with my views, so I consider this issue frivolous.


My point is a Muslim is essentially a believer who had made a covenant with Allah where the relevant terms and conditions are stated in the Quran [the sole words of Allah]. Besides the terms and conditions, the Quran contain other elements, e.g. reminder, commands, good tidings, guidance, etc. which may or may not be terms of the covenant.


99.9% intent??
I agree intent is critical but it must be confirmed with a covenant [agreement, contract] for actions to be executed. One can have intent [pledge] to donate 100 million dollars to charity but it is only of significance when one actually pay out the real money.
Therefore intention must always be followed through with real actions to be of any significance.


The real actions of being a Muslims must be in accordance to Allah expectations i.e. the Muslim's obligation and duty within the covenant with Allah.
Allah expectations is based on what is expressed by Allah and what is expressed by Allah is in the Quran and no where else.
A Muslim cannot force words into Allah's throat, this is what you are doing subjectively in accordance to your whims and feelings.


The only reference to what is Allah's expectation is from Allah's words and no where else. The only source of Allah's words is the Quran. This is the most critical principle.
Otherwise you will be accused like what Allah accused the Jews and Christians did, i.e. change and add words to Allah's message as in the Quran.


Loving Allah?
How can one expressed 'love' for Allah other than with reference to the Quran.
'Love' is an emotion and expressed in feeling.
No matter how strong a Muslims love for Allah is, s/he cannot act beyond what is stipulated in the Quran.
For example if a Muslims is filled with the greatest love for Allah and that overflowing feelings of love extended to loving the enemies of Islam, that would be a great sin.
Allah will not emphasize on how much Muslims love Allah but on the real actions committed by the Muslim in accordance with Allah's expectation as conveyed via the Quran and no where else.


Rules and Commands
My focus is not on rules and commands. My focus is on the terms and condition of a covenant [religious agreement, contract] which may contain various elements including rules and commands of various degrees.
Allah issued many commands, e.g. obey Allah, no partners besides Allah, kill enemies of Islam [kuffar] under certain conditions [vague]. etc.
There are various exhortations by Allah which are not necessary command nor rules, e.g. be kind to one's parent if they are not sinning, etc.
Therefore we need to review the elements of each verses in the respective contexts and their place as terms and conditions of the covenant a Muslim has made with Allah.


Quote:
Our side of the covenant with Allaah(swt) is "We will acknowledge there is only one God, and he has no equals, partners or progeny, only He is to be worshiped."
Quote:

How we interpret the Qur'an or how well we follow it is not part of our promise (Covenant) with Allaah(swt)

We will not get into heaven based upon how well we follow the Qur'an but on Allaah(swt)'s mercy alone. We do know that we all will be judged on the basis of our good intention and deed vs our evil deeds. We are promised rewards for the Good we do and punishment for the evil we do.

The Qur'an does state in many places that Allaah(swt) is close to us. lt also tells us what is expected of us and He will guide us to heaven
The Quran is declared to be perfected, complete and final to all Muslims. Thus all the conditions of the covenant are included in the perfected and complete Quran and it cannot be from anywhere else. It is thus ridiculous to insist there is only one obligation [i.e. no partners, equal, progeny] in the covenant with Allah.


The various terms and conditions, e.g. pray, pay zakat, belief in Muhammad as messenger, fasting are terms and conditions of the covenant with Allah.
While believing Allah is the only God and Muhammad is the messenger is obligatory, praying, pay zakat and fasting are not imperatives but the merits will be rewarded in accordance to the degree of one's commitment to these acts.
Thus there are three types of terms and conditions of the covenant, i.e.
1. Imperative - absolutely no compromise
2. Obligatory but degrees and exceptions are allowed and provided for depending on circumstances
3. Not obligatory but recommended wherever and whenever one is capable to do it.


Therefore a Muslim in accordance with his covenant with Allah promise to comply with 1, 2 and 3 above.
Other than the imperative terms, a promise did not be to act 100%. One can promise to act to the best of ones' ability for some of the obligatory and not obligatory terms and conditions.


No one can be sure of one's performance in accordance to the ultimate expectations of Allah.
However if one were to adhere to as close as possible to the words and message of Allah, i.e. the Quran and no where else, one cannot go way off from the truth.
The surest and most certain way for a Muslims to meet Allah's expectation is to rely on the terms and conditions of the covenant from the Quran.


Quote:
The Qur'an does inform us that what is true in the past scriptures is still applicable to all. The Qur'an does not negate past scripture, they are still applicable. The Qur'an does reierate the truth contained within them and The 10 commandments are still applicable to Muslims. The 10 commandments have been referred to in several places in the Qur'an.
Note my above point re past scriptures.
There are no existing past scriptures that are equivalent to the "original Quran" of Allah.
All existing scriptures [in written or oral] before Muhammad are corrupted as proclaimed by Allah.
Obviously there are various verses and elements that are similar and comparable between what is in the Quran with the Torah and NT, but according to Allah, the Quran abrogate all older existing scriptures which are corrupted, thus are incomplete, useless and only to be used by people who are like apes, swines, pigs, cattles and asses.

Quote:
Your questions are based upon the assumption that the Qur'an is a book of commands and constitute our covenant with Allaah(swt) which is an error. The Qur'an is telling us why we should be Muslims and guides us in how to live a peaceful life. Your questions are not about Islam, they are more of a non-Muslim perspective of Islam.
Note my point re 'Quran as a book of command' which is your invented concept [straw man] not mine.


The fact is there are so many interpretations of what is Islam, who is a Muslims and various controversies amongst mainstream Muslims and within their various sects.


Your views of Islam are merely your personal bias views and a perverted* version relatively and in comparison to the majority of Muslims and the various schools. * It is perverted relatively to Islam but nevertheless more humane and less barbaric and primitive as Islam per-se.


For me, I take into account the whole perspective of all views of the various individuals and groups of Muslims' views and analyze them to arrive at on objective approach based on the words of Allah.


Show me one example where my thoughts are not in line with the words of Allah, i.e. the sole and final authority of what is Islam as in the Quran.
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Old 01-09-2016, 10:10 PM
 
Location: in here, out there
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I'm pretty sure if there is anything ever like a judgement day that God or Allah is not going to be up there counting who did or didn't wear this or that on any given day.

It's like Santa Claus keeping a tally of those naughty and nice.
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Old 01-09-2016, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles22 View Post
I'm pretty sure if there is anything ever like a judgement day that God or Allah is not going to be up there counting who did or didn't wear this or that on any given day.

It's like Santa Claus keeping a tally of those naughty and nice.
It is stated in the Quran,
Allah has its statisticians and accountants [angels] to keep records of all activities and net worth of any Muslim.
There are two sets of records, i.e. the Sijirin and the Iliyin.


On Judgment Day it is mentioned in the Quran, Allah will review this two set of books and dish out the relevant punishments and reward according to one's 'profit' or 'loss'.


Since Muhammad was a merchant, one can gather elements of trading and commerce from the Quran with regard to performances of a Muslim toward Paradise [if net profit] or Hell [if net loss]. [one clue the Quran was authored by Muhammad]
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Old 01-10-2016, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
You are way off topic which is how will Allah judge a Muslimah with reference to her wearing of the hijab that cover all her hair.


Yes, the Quran is not a new revelation, but there are no original versions of the "Quran" in existence prior to Muhammad because all of the existence holy texts of the Jews, Sabeans and Christians have been corrupted.
According to the words of Allah in the Quran which is complete and perfect, Muslims must therefore follow the Quran [MGA-610] and nothing else.


Thus the explicit concepts of 'love your enemies,' the Golden Rule and other progressive and more humane elements in the NT are not in the so-claimed perfect and complete revelation of the Quran.


By not including the above and other more progressive and humane elements, the Quran [which is partly more aggressive, evil and violent] is actually regressing backward in terms of spirituality and morality.
This is why there is so much terrible evils and violence that is committed by SOME evil prone Muslims who are inspired by the lots of backward evil laden element in the Quran.


Good deeds, INDEED!!


If a Muslim were to do good deeds of loving his/her enemies, be intimate friend with or take Jew, Christians and non-Muslims as guardians [awliyaa] partners-associates[not deity], the Muslims will be destined to be burnt in the most evil ways in Hell.


The concept of whether the Quran is a 'book of command or not' is your straw man which you introduced for yourself to make your own condemnation. It has nothing to do with my views, so I consider this issue frivolous.


My point is a Muslim is essentially a believer who had made a covenant with Allah where the relevant terms and conditions are stated in the Quran [the sole words of Allah]. Besides the terms and conditions, the Quran contain other elements, e.g. reminder, commands, good tidings, guidance, etc. which may or may not be terms of the covenant.


99.9% intent??
I agree intent is critical but it must be confirmed with a covenant [agreement, contract] for actions to be executed. One can have intent [pledge] to donate 100 million dollars to charity but it is only of significance when one actually pay out the real money.
Therefore intention must always be followed through with real actions to be of any significance.


The real actions of being a Muslims must be in accordance to Allah expectations i.e. the Muslim's obligation and duty within the covenant with Allah.
Allah expectations is based on what is expressed by Allah and what is expressed by Allah is in the Quran and no where else.
A Muslim cannot force words into Allah's throat, this is what you are doing subjectively in accordance to your whims and feelings.


The only reference to what is Allah's expectation is from Allah's words and no where else. The only source of Allah's words is the Quran. This is the most critical principle.
Otherwise you will be accused like what Allah accused the Jews and Christians did, i.e. change and add words to Allah's message as in the Quran.


Loving Allah?
How can one expressed 'love' for Allah other than with reference to the Quran.
'Love' is an emotion and expressed in feeling.
No matter how strong a Muslims love for Allah is, s/he cannot act beyond what is stipulated in the Quran.
For example if a Muslims is filled with the greatest love for Allah and that overflowing feelings of love extended to loving the enemies of Islam, that would be a great sin.
Allah will not emphasize on how much Muslims love Allah but on the real actions committed by the Muslim in accordance with Allah's expectation as conveyed via the Quran and no where else.


Rules and Commands
My focus is not on rules and commands. My focus is on the terms and condition of a covenant [religious agreement, contract] which may contain various elements including rules and commands of various degrees.
Allah issued many commands, e.g. obey Allah, no partners besides Allah, kill enemies of Islam [kuffar] under certain conditions [vague]. etc.
There are various exhortations by Allah which are not necessary command nor rules, e.g. be kind to one's parent if they are not sinning, etc.
Therefore we need to review the elements of each verses in the respective contexts and their place as terms and conditions of the covenant a Muslim has made with Allah.


The Quran is declared to be perfected, complete and final to all Muslims. Thus all the conditions of the covenant are included in the perfected and complete Quran and it cannot be from anywhere else. It is thus ridiculous to insist there is only one obligation [i.e. no partners, equal, progeny] in the covenant with Allah.


The various terms and conditions, e.g. pray, pay zakat, belief in Muhammad as messenger, fasting are terms and conditions of the covenant with Allah.
While believing Allah is the only God and Muhammad is the messenger is obligatory, praying, pay zakat and fasting are not imperatives but the merits will be rewarded in accordance to the degree of one's commitment to these acts.
Thus there are three types of terms and conditions of the covenant, i.e.
1. Imperative - absolutely no compromise
2. Obligatory but degrees and exceptions are allowed and provided for depending on circumstances
3. Not obligatory but recommended wherever and whenever one is capable to do it.


Therefore a Muslim in accordance with his covenant with Allah promise to comply with 1, 2 and 3 above.
Other than the imperative terms, a promise did not be to act 100%. One can promise to act to the best of ones' ability for some of the obligatory and not obligatory terms and conditions.


No one can be sure of one's performance in accordance to the ultimate expectations of Allah.
However if one were to adhere to as close as possible to the words and message of Allah, i.e. the Quran and no where else, one cannot go way off from the truth.
The surest and most certain way for a Muslims to meet Allah's expectation is to rely on the terms and conditions of the covenant from the Quran.


Note my above point re past scriptures.
There are no existing past scriptures that are equivalent to the "original Quran" of Allah.
All existing scriptures [in written or oral] before Muhammad are corrupted as proclaimed by Allah.
Obviously there are various verses and elements that are similar and comparable between what is in the Quran with the Torah and NT, but according to Allah, the Quran abrogate all older existing scriptures which are corrupted, thus are incomplete, useless and only to be used by people who are like apes, swines, pigs, cattles and asses.

Note my point re 'Quran as a book of command' which is your invented concept [straw man] not mine.


The fact is there are so many interpretations of what is Islam, who is a Muslims and various controversies amongst mainstream Muslims and within their various sects.


Your views of Islam are merely your personal bias views and a perverted* version relatively and in comparison to the majority of Muslims and the various schools. * It is perverted relatively to Islam but nevertheless more humane and less barbaric and primitive as Islam per-se.


For me, I take into account the whole perspective of all views of the various individuals and groups of Muslims' views and analyze them to arrive at on objective approach based on the words of Allah.


Show me one example where my thoughts are not in line with the words of Allah, i.e. the sole and final authority of what is Islam as in the Quran.
Answering these2 parts:

Quote:
You are way off topic which is how will Allah judge a Muslimah with reference to her wearing of the hijab that cover all her hair.
I did answer that when I said I do not know. As one is judged on the basis of their entire life. No single act except for shirk determines if a person goes to heaven or hell. My post gives examples of the ways one can gain numerous rewards and even serve as restitution for sins.

Quote:
Show me one example where my thoughts are not in line with the words of Allah, i.e. the sole and final authority of what is Islam as in the Quran
How to perform Islam is not covered in the Quran. We are to be obedient to the teachings of Muhammad(saws) to learn how to perform Islam,

The Qur'an does tell us we are to obey Allaah(swt) and Muhammad(saws)

In the words of Allaah(swt)


"Say (Oh Muhammad): ‘If you (truly) love Allah then follow me, so that Allah may love you and forgive your sins.’ And Allah is All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate." (3:31)

"It is not fit for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and Messenger has indeed strayed in a plain manner." (33:36)

"And We have sent you (Muhammad) as a Messenger to mankind, and Allah is sufficient as a Witness. He who obeys the Messenger, has indeed obeyed Allah, but he who turns away, then We have not sent you as a watcher over them." (4:79-80)

"Say (Muhammad), ‘Obey Allah and the Messenger, but if they turn away, then Allah does not like the disbelievers." (3:32)

"And whoever obeys Allah and His Messenger will be admitted to Gardens under which rivers flow, to abide therein, and that will be the great success. And whosoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, and transgress His Limits, He will cast him into the Fire, to abide therein, and he shall have a disgraceful torment." (4:13-14)

"Indeed in the Messenger of Allah you have an excellent example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much." (33:21)

"And whatsoever the Messenger gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it), and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Severe in punishment." (59:7)

"Let those beware who oppose the Messenger’s order! In case some fitnah(trial) should befall them or a painful torment be inflicted upon them." (24:63)

While the Qur'an gives the reason to be Muslim, it is throughthe teachings of Muhammad (saws) that we learn how to perform Islam.
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Old 01-10-2016, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,862 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Answering these2 parts:
I did answer that when I said I do not know. As one is judged on the basis of their entire life. No single act except for shirk determines if a person goes to heaven or hell. My post gives examples of the ways one can gain numerous rewards and even serve as restitution for sins.
I agree in one sense, the Quran stipulated in general, Muslims can go to Paradise and non-Muslims will definitely go to hell.


However going to paradise is not a straight forward process for all Muslims.
Depending on a Muslim's compliance to the terms and condition of the covenant, a Muslim may be punished in Hell before going onward to the lower parts of Paradise.
There is the concept of 'tarry' where one is suspended in some intermediate phase/location in the hereafter before the judgment process.
Note 1 day in the hereafter is 50,000 Earth years.
Therefore if one is suspended in tarry for 1 year in the hereafter, that is 18,250,000 Earth years.


Therefore a Muslim would want to avoid committing sins and proceed to paradise as soon as possible instead of waiting for 18 million years.


Mujahideens and martyrs are given express passages, and this is why Allah and the Quran inspire SOME Muslims to kill non-Muslims as jihadists and suicide bombers.


My points:
Muslims need to understand the terms and conditions of their covenant with Allah so as to enable them a fast and smooth passage to 1st Class Paradise and avoid being sent to tarry and suspended in the hereafter for millions of years.


Quote:
How to perform Islam is not covered in the Quran. We are to be obedient to the teachings of Muhammad(saws) to learn how to perform Islam,

The Qur'an does tell us we are to obey Allaah(swt) and Muhammad(saws)

In the words of Allaah(swt)


"Say (Oh Muhammad): ‘If you (truly) love Allah then follow me, so that Allah may love you and forgive your sins.’ And Allah is All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate." (3:31)

"It is not fit for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and Messenger has indeed strayed in a plain manner." (33:36)

While the Qur'an gives the reason to be Muslim, it is throughthe teachings of Muhammad (saws) that we learn how to perform Islam.
I have presented my views on why the Quran is complete, final and the sole authoritative texts of Islam in this post;
http://www.city-data.com/forum/42585707-post3.html
The Hadiths, Sira and other texts are merely guides and do not have any divine authority.



I have raised a thread to discuss the concept of 'Obey the Messenger.'
24:54 Obey Allah and obey the Messenger


The fundamental point is Muhammad is critically a warner, conveyor of Allah's reminder and has no authority to issue any divine guidance to Muslims on his personal basis.
7:188 Say: For myself I have no power to benefit, nor power to hurt, save that which Allah willeth. Had I knowledge of the Unseen, I should have abundance of wealth, and adversity would not touch me. I am but a warner, and a bearer of good tidings unto folk who believe.


17:105 With truth have We sent it [Quran] down, and with truth hath it descended. And We have sent thee as naught else save a bearer of good tidings and a warner.

The word 'warner' is mentioned 57 times in the Quran [Pickthall] to explain the context Muhammad's position solely as a messenger only and not an adviser.


In another perspective, Muhammad is merely a conveyor of the message;
5:92 Obey Allah and obey the messenger, and beware! But if ye turn away, then know that the duty of Our messenger is only plain conveyance (of the message).

The Quran did state a Muslim must obey Allah as well as the Messenger.
But obeying the messenger must be taken in the context of Muhammad as a warner, a conveyor of the message of the Quran and not just any thing blurted by Muhammad.

Analogy:
I have mentioned before, all juniors must obey their seniors [they are reporting to] in any organizations, army, groups etc. but what is to be obeyed must always be in lined with the constitution of the organization or groups.
It ridiculous for a sexy lady employee in a business organization [say Walmart] to obey his senior's demand for sex. Agree?
That is because sex is normally not a job specifications and responsibility of any employee.
Therefore what is to be obeyed by all employees of a company in their course of duty must solely be confined to the Company's Manual and policies.


Similarly, Muslims must obey the messenger to the extent of what Allah had dictated in the Quran.
If Muhammad ordered those guilty of adultery to be stoned to death, that is not to be obeyed because it is not stated in the Quran.
If Muhammad stated in the Hadiths or anywhere else, a women must cover their hair or wear the burga, there is no need to obey the messenger on this rule.
If Muhammad stated male Muslims must keep a beard and no moustache, there is no need to obey such a rule at all.
All such irrelevant acts carry no merit points toward Judgment Day.


But, If Muhammad stated, 'where justified {vague conditions}, kill the kuffar wherever you find them, smite their necks' then one should obey the messenger in relation to this policy as it is in alignment with what is stated by Allah in the Quran.
If Muhammad stated, 'cast terror unto the kuffar' then that is to be obeyed as it is in alignment with the message of the Quran.


Yes, a Muslim must obey the messenger as stated in the Quran, but the context is only related and confined to elements within the Quran and not just any thing that was blurted by Muhammad.
Therefore whatever that is in the Hadiths but is not aligned or conform to what is in the authoritative Quran should be rejected and need not be obeyed by Muslims.


Note if a Muslim is a Sunni, s/he has no choice but to obey the sayings and precepts in the Ahadiths in accordance to the established rule of their sect.
But this in not in accordance to the main principles of Islam as in the Quran [sole words of Allah]. The Sunnis has interpreted the concept of 'obey the messenger' wrongly.
The correct context of "obey the messenger' is as highlighted in my analogy above.

Last edited by Continuum; 01-10-2016 at 09:34 PM..
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