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Old 01-22-2016, 05:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Nearly 80% of the world's Muslims are not from the Mideast and have integrated into local society successfully. Today's immigrants are not immigrants by choice, their homelands have been destroyed and we have a large group of very angry, displaced people attempting to restore their lives in nations they do not understand and have fear of.
Maybe today's aren't, but most Muslim immigrants in general are where they are by choice. They ought to to a better job of integrating to combat this "inner jihad" you speak of. Learn the language, maybe not walk around in full Islamic gear. Dress like a Brit, American, Australian, German, etc. If inner jihad is a struggle, it's not difficult to integrate. No one is saying they need to change who they are inside or their religion.

I get the anger and whatever feelings today's immigrants may have about missing their homes, etc. But the last one's they ought to be taking it out on is their host country. They should summarily reject any and all jihad or violent ideology, because look what it did to them. If that's not reason enough, there will never be a good enough reason.

Same as losing weight or quitting smoking - you have yo WANT to change. It can't be forced on you.
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Old 01-22-2016, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northeastah View Post
Maybe today's aren't, but most Muslim immigrants in general are where they are by choice. They ought to to a better job of integrating to combat this "inner jihad" you speak of. Learn the language, maybe not walk around in full Islamic gear. Dress like a Brit, American, Australian, German, etc. If inner jihad is a struggle, it's not difficult to integrate. No one is saying they need to change who they are inside or their religion.

I get the anger and whatever feelings today's immigrants may have about missing their homes, etc. But the last one's they ought to be taking it out on is their host country. They should summarily reject any and all jihad or violent ideology, because look what it did to them. If that's not reason enough, there will never be a good enough reason.

Same as losing weight or quitting smoking - you have yo WANT to change. It can't be forced on you.
Which is one of the reasons for this thread.

We do have a battle to fight to gain acceptance. I never understood the anger and insults I would face as a Muslim until after I accepted Islam. Yes, some of my activities no longer fit with the "norm". such as my beard. However, I am still more fluent in English that in Arabic, I still dress much the same, except on the Days I know I will be leading the prayers at the Mosque.

Yet the few people that were aware I am Muslim were very quick to come out with insults, criticize Islam and ridicule Muhammad(saws). When I was more open about being Muslim I got threats, hate mail and even a few physical attacks and death threats.

My method of handling this is to live a life that demonstrates I am not an aggressor, I will not force anyone to "Join" Islam, I am no danger to anyone.


I have found that as a result I do gain at least a token level of acceptance.

I am curious as to what other Muslims have found to work for them.
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:39 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northeastah View Post
Maybe today's aren't, but most Muslim immigrants in general are where they are by choice. They ought to to a better job of integrating to combat this "inner jihad" you speak of. Learn the language, maybe not walk around in full Islamic gear. Dress like a Brit, American, Australian, German, etc. If inner jihad is a struggle, it's not difficult to integrate. No one is saying they need to change who they are inside or their religion.

I get the anger and whatever feelings today's immigrants may have about missing their homes, etc. But the last one's they ought to be taking it out on is their host country. They should summarily reject any and all jihad or violent ideology, because look what it did to them. If that's not reason enough, there will never be a good enough reason.

Same as losing weight or quitting smoking - you have yo WANT to change. It can't be forced on you.
There is the issue of staying and fighting for your homeland. If so very few Muslims are terrorists and so very many Muslims are against terrorism, then all these multitudes of moderate Muslims should stay put and fight against the terrorists living around them.

But instead they infiltrate to other countries (along with the terrorists) and demand welfare, do mass rape, do acts of terrorism, spew hate, refuse to integrate, form 'no go zones', etc, etc. They hate and want to destroy the values of the countries where they go. And they want to be financially supported by the very people they slaughter and hate and rape.

All we have to do is look at Europe.
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Old 01-22-2016, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
In your opinion how should a Muslim fight this Jihad of overcoming those who vehemently oppose Islam and speak hatred of Muslims?
Note this from the Quran,
8:53. That is because Allah never changeth the grace He hath bestowed on any people until they first change that which is in their hearts, and (that is) because Allah is Hearer, Knower.
13:11 .... Lo! Allah changeth not the condition of a folk until they (first) change that which is in their hearts; ..


In the above 'hearts' refer to brain/mind. Regardless of one is theist or non-theist one and thus a Muslim must have the capacity to change his state of brain and mind.


The typical saying is;
"One must change one self before attempting to change others"


To be able to change one's [a Muslim] state of brain and mind, one must know oneself thoroughly if not at least the very basics of how the mind, brain and body work. That is a Muslim must understand human nature of the individual, group and the collective.


A Muslim ought to note the principles of the Bell Curve apply to all variables of human nature.


One of the basic primal drive of human nature is the "us versus them" impulse. As such it would be natural for a small % [re Bell Curve] to be anti-the-other.
For example, we will naturally have a small % of whites hating blacks and vice versa, Americans 'hating' Russians, Democrats hating Republicans, Religion X hating religion Y, group A hating group B, and vice versa.


Because it is so natural a small % of one group will 'hate' the other group and vice versa, there is no need to cry over spilled milked in such a case. Therefore for hatred or bigotry that arise from natural causes as above, there is nothing a Muslim can do about it except to change understand the inevitable and modulate one own responses to it.
Nevertheless a Muslim should do whatever is necessary [condemn, etc.] to prevent and eliminate bigotry in such and other circumstances.


However in the current state and waves of anti-Muslim sentiments, the cause is not due solely to the natural primal bigotry.
It is not merely waves of anti-Muslim sentiments but a Tsunami of anti-Muslims sentiments and this is not actually hatred for Muslims [it is an error to blame all Muslims] but voices against Islam.


A Muslim and Muslims MUST understand the concerns and real fears [not irrational fears-Islamophobia] of the majority of non-Muslims due to the REAL potential threat from SOME evil prone Muslims who are influenced by tons of evil laden elements from Islam-proper [in part].
Thus Muslims must acknowledge such real fears of non-Muslims [even other Muslims] as caused by SOME evil prone Muslims being inspired by evil laden elements in the Quran and ethos of Islam [in part].


A Muslim must not deny this fact that Islam-in-part has malignant elements, just like an addicted cigarette smoker who cannot give up and continue to smoke but has to acknowledge the proven fact that cigarettes has malignant elements. If one can give up smoking to avoid the malignant potential that would be preferable.


Once a Muslim accept the FACT that Islam-in-part [not whole] is to be blamed for its inspired evils and violence plus the concerns and fears of non-Muslims are real and they have the moral right to voice about such threats, there is no basis for any internal Jihad to overcome the voices of those who speak against the evil elements of Islam. It is just a matter of acceptance of the facts.
The only thing Muslims need to do is to correct those who are ignorant of the facts and blame Muslims personally and are not able to differentiate the bigotry elements.


So, in my opinion there is no need for a Muslim to fight this Jihad of overcoming those who vehemently oppose Islam and speak hatred of Muslims.
The majority of non-Muslims who complain are not opposing Islam nor hate Muslims but merely voicing their concerns about the real fears and potential threats from SOME Muslims who are inspired by Islam-in-part to commit terrible evils and violence on non-Muslims and even other Muslims.


Since Islam and its ethos has inherent malignant elements, humanity will have to deal with it on a collective basis. There is nothing the individual can do except;
as the above are based on facts, what is left is for the individual Muslim to fight an internal Jihad of stabilizing and maintaining equanimity within his/her own psychological self based on whatever is optimal from the good of Islam or wherever.
To do this effectively, it would be optimal for a Muslim [no necessity to change one's religion] to adopt the generic problem-solving techniques [as adopted by Buddhism] of resolving life's major problems.
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Old 01-22-2016, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note this from the Quran,
8:53. That is because Allah never changeth the grace He hath bestowed on any people until they first change that which is in their hearts, and (that is) because Allah is Hearer, Knower.
13:11 .... Lo! Allah changeth not the condition of a folk until they (first) change that which is in their hearts; ..


In the above 'hearts' refer to brain/mind. Regardless of one is theist or non-theist one and thus a Muslim must have the capacity to change his state of brain and mind.


The typical saying is;
"One must change one self before attempting to change others"


To be able to change one's [a Muslim] state of brain and mind, one must know oneself thoroughly if not at least the very basics of how the mind, brain and body work. That is a Muslim must understand human nature of the individual, group and the collective.


A Muslim ought to note the principles of the Bell Curve apply to all variables of human nature.


One of the basic primal drive of human nature is the "us versus them" impulse. As such it would be natural for a small % [re Bell Curve] to be anti-the-other.
For example, we will naturally have a small % of whites hating blacks and vice versa, Americans 'hating' Russians, Democrats hating Republicans, Religion X hating religion Y, group A hating group B, and vice versa.


Because it is so natural a small % of one group will 'hate' the other group and vice versa, there is no need to cry over spilled milked in such a case. Therefore for hatred or bigotry that arise from natural causes as above, there is nothing a Muslim can do about it except to change understand the inevitable and modulate one own responses to it.
Nevertheless a Muslim should do whatever is necessary [condemn, etc.] to prevent and eliminate bigotry in such and other circumstances.


However in the current state and waves of anti-Muslim sentiments, the cause is not due solely to the natural primal bigotry.
It is not merely waves of anti-Muslim sentiments but a Tsunami of anti-Muslims sentiments and this is not actually hatred for Muslims [it is an error to blame all Muslims] but voices against Islam.


A Muslim and Muslims MUST understand the concerns and real fears [not irrational fears-Islamophobia] of the majority of non-Muslims due to the REAL potential threat from SOME evil prone Muslims who are influenced by tons of evil laden elements from Islam-proper [in part].
Thus Muslims must acknowledge such real fears of non-Muslims [even other Muslims] as caused by SOME evil prone Muslims being inspired by evil laden elements in the Quran and ethos of Islam [in part].


A Muslim must not deny this fact that Islam-in-part has malignant elements, just like an addicted cigarette smoker who cannot give up and continue to smoke but has to acknowledge the proven fact that cigarettes has malignant elements. If one can give up smoking to avoid the malignant potential that would be preferable.


Once a Muslim accept the FACT that Islam-in-part [not whole] is to be blamed for its inspired evils and violence plus the concerns and fears of non-Muslims are real and they have the moral right to voice about such threats, there is no basis for any internal Jihad to overcome the voices of those who speak against the evil elements of Islam. It is just a matter of acceptance of the facts.
The only thing Muslims need to do is to correct those who are ignorant of the facts and blame Muslims personally and are not able to differentiate the bigotry elements.


So, in my opinion there is no need for a Muslim to fight this Jihad of overcoming those who vehemently oppose Islam and speak hatred of Muslims.
The majority of non-Muslims who complain are not opposing Islam nor hate Muslims but merely voicing their concerns about the real fears and potential threats from SOME Muslims who are inspired by Islam-in-part to commit terrible evils and violence on non-Muslims and even other Muslims.


Since Islam and its ethos has inherent malignant elements, humanity will have to deal with it on a collective basis. There is nothing the individual can do except;
as the above are based on facts, what is left is for the individual Muslim to fight an internal Jihad of stabilizing and maintaining equanimity within his/her own psychological self based on whatever is optimal from the good of Islam or wherever.
To do this effectively, it would be optimal for a Muslim [no necessity to change one's religion] to adopt the generic problem-solving techniques [as adopted by Buddhism] of resolving life's major problems.

While over all it is good advice. The only problem I see is that you and perhaps others have a different concept of fight and Jihad.than what I have.

Quote:
So, in my opinion there is no need for a Muslim to fight this Jihad of overcoming those who vehemently oppose Islam and speak hatred of Muslims.
I feel there is a very strong need to fight. To fight our inner feelings so that we do not respond in kind. To fight the urge to respond with anger, which is a very difficult Jihad and part of the "Greater Jihad" which is to fight our own harmful thoughts. We must fight the desire to be aggressive and to respond with kindness, not malice.
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Old 01-22-2016, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,753 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
While over all it is good advice. The only problem I see is that you and perhaps others have a different concept of fight and Jihad.than what I have.

I feel there is a very strong need to fight. To fight our inner feelings so that we do not respond in kind. To fight the urge to respond with anger, which is a very difficult Jihad and part of the "Greater Jihad" which is to fight our own harmful thoughts. We must fight the desire to be aggressive and to respond with kindness, not malice.
You missed out the critical perspective of reality.
What I had presented was generic to human nature.


Note your view is as follows;


1. I feel the anger, aggressiveness, rage, etc.
2. Therefore I must fight the above emotional responses with kindness.
3. I need to find way to deal with the anger [suppress, replace it with kindness, indifference, etc.]


A Christian can easily overcome the above superficially by invoking God's command and the overriding maxim of;
1. 'Love your enemies'
2. 'Give your other cheek'
3. 'Love this and love that'
4. 'love is the greatest'


The above 1 and 2 may not be literal but the above can be merely superficial due to the fear of God and Hell.


The general ethos and atmosphere generated by the Quran is to fight [anger, rage, wrath, abhorrence, kill] if Islam is threatened via insults and other means. This is why most Muslims will feel angry even when there is a false perception.


What I had presented was generic to human nature, i.e. one must prevent the 'anger' from rising in the first place, i.e. nip the anger in the bud.
The anger that you face is merely based on false misperceptions.
This is why I suggested a Muslim must reframe his/her perspective to the fact, truth and reality to avoid triggering unnecessary angers arising from false perceptions.

Note the parable of the Snake, Rope and terrible Fears.
There was this case of a man who was filled with terrible fears when he saw a Snake but eventually he found out it was merely a rope which apparently looked like a snake in the shade.
This is a case of false perception but the fears are real and affected the person physiologically and psychologically.


It is the same with your anger when faced with criticisms from non-Muslims.
I claim your anger in this case is based on false perceptions.
Therefore when you understand the truth of your false perceptions, you will not feel anger anymore.
[just like the person who later know that was a rope and thus no more fear upon seeing the same rope that caused fears earlier.]
If you rationalize the issues, there is no more misperceptions, thus no more anger and therefore there is nothing for you to fight for.


The point is you need to tackle your anger at its roots and not try to deal [suppress, etc.] with it after the anger is triggered which is too late, difficult and stressful.


If you don't deal with the problem at the root level, you will forever feel angry and bad all the time in response to things you cannot control [i.e. bigotry, non-Muslims expressing genuine concerns, criticisms & anger {by some} based because they are facing real evils and violence and its potential].


To deal with the problem of such anger [misperceived] at the root level, one will have to address the various issues I listed in the earlier post.

Last edited by Continuum; 01-22-2016 at 11:23 PM..
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Old 01-22-2016, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
You missed out the critical perspective of reality.
What I had presented was generic to human nature.


Note your view is as follows;


1. I feel the anger, aggressiveness, rage, etc.
2. Therefore I must fight the above emotional responses with kindness.
3. I need to find way to deal with the anger [suppress, replace it with kindness, indifference, etc.]


A Christian can easily overcome the above superficially by invoking God's command and the overriding maxim of;
1. 'Love your enemies'
2. 'Give your other cheek'
3. 'Love this and love that'
4. 'love is the greatest'


The above 1 and 2 may not be literal but the above can be merely superficial due to the fear of God and Hell.


The general ethos and atmosphere generated by the Quran is to fight [anger, rage, wrath, abhorrence, kill] if Islam is threatened via insults and other means. This is why most Muslims will feel angry even when there is a false perception.


What I had presented was generic to human nature, i.e. one must prevent the 'anger' from rising in the first place, i.e. nip the anger in the bud.
The anger that you face is merely based on false misperceptions.
This is why I suggested a Muslim must reframe his/her perspective to the fact, truth and reality to avoid triggering unnecessary angers arising from false perceptions.

Note the parable of the Snake, Rope and terrible Fears.
There was this case of a man who was filled with terrible fears when he saw a Snake but eventually he found out it was merely a rope which apparently looked like a snake in the shade.
This is a case of false perception but the fears are real and affected the person physiologically and psychologically.


It is the same with your anger when faced with criticisms from non-Muslims.
I claim your anger in this case is based on false perceptions.
Therefore when you understand the truth of your false perceptions, you will not feel anger anymore.
[just like the person who later know that was a rope and thus no more fear upon seeing the same rope that caused fears earlier.]
If you rationalize the issues, there is no more misperceptions, thus no more anger and therefore there is nothing for you to fight for.


The point is you need to tackle your anger at its roots and not try to deal [suppress, etc.] with it after the anger is triggered which is too late, difficult and stressful.


If you don't deal with the problem at the root level, you will forever feel angry and bad all the time in response to things you cannot control [i.e. bigotry, non-Muslims expressing genuine concerns, criticisms & anger {by some} based because they are facing real evils and violence and its potential].


To deal with the problem of such anger [misperceived] at the root level, one will have to address the various issues I listed in the earlier post.
Or what I perceive in my case is a reaction to view confrontation as a personal attack and my Jihad being to offset this by trying to view things through the other person's eyes. It is not something that popped up suddenly when I accepted Islam. Goes way back to my earliest memories. Probably dating back to my first day at school when my first childhood non-relative friend came home, with me saw my Mother (Who had oriental features) and screamed "She's a ***" and went running out of the House. This was in Sept of 1945. Anyone with even minimal oriental features was viewed with suspicion and fear. From that point on I became very self-defensive.

I still do take criticism and confrontation personal, but I believe I have gained sufficient control over my feelings to understand it is my inner issue and I do not let it affect my interaction with other people.
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Old 01-23-2016, 09:37 AM
 
9,886 posts, read 8,169,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Or what I perceive in my case is a reaction to view confrontation as a personal attack and my Jihad being to offset this by trying to view things through the other person's eyes. It is not something that popped up suddenly when I accepted Islam. Goes way back to my earliest memories. Probably dating back to my first day at school when my first childhood non-relative friend came home, with me saw my Mother (Who had oriental features) and screamed "She's a ***" and went running out of the House. This was in Sept of 1945. Anyone with even minimal oriental features was viewed with suspicion and fear. From that point on I became very self-defensive.

I still do take criticism and confrontation personal, but I believe I have gained sufficient control over my feelings to understand it is my inner issue and I do not let it affect my interaction with other people.
You're mistaken. The hatred towards Islam is justified. This goes back decades before 9/11. As the muslim population in non-muslim countries increased, so did the attacks. At first the attacks were merely against Jews. Now that the population of muslims have increased, they're now attacking Christians leaving churches, women dressed provocatively (by muslim standards), and people drinking (Sharia Patrols), and demanding non-muslims live by Sharia Law even if they aren't muslim. Individually, yes there are good muslims. But when they're grouped together in larger groups, that's when things go to hell in a handbasket.
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Old 01-26-2016, 05:46 PM
 
2,072 posts, read 2,152,288 times
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Just my opinion and view, but violent Islamic Radical Extremists are not men...but demons from hell. The atrocities they commit are directly guided by the Devil himself, and not God/Allah. ISIS, Boko Harem, Taliban, Al Qaeda, and even those who silently support these groups, are all demons from hell in my opinion. All men, from every background on earth, should be fighting against this evil. Good and peaceful Muslims need to realize this, and form a massive standing army to fight this evil, along with the rest of mankind. Any hesitation can be perceived as siding with the Devil himself. A part of Islam has been hijacked. Just my opinion and view.

Ephesians 6:12 New King James Version (NKJV)

12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places

Last edited by folkguitarist555; 01-26-2016 at 05:55 PM..
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Old 01-28-2016, 09:26 AM
 
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https://www.facebook.com/isaac.oluji...2667653795377/

This is the testimony of a radical Muslim who was sent to do cultural Jihad against America. He ended up with a face to face encounter with the Risen Christ!
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