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Old 01-24-2016, 05:42 AM
 
Location: quiet place
271 posts, read 214,810 times
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Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Shall I not tell you what distinguishes the best of you from the worst of you? The best of you are those from whom goodness is expected and people are safe from their evil. The worst of you are those from whom goodness is not expected and people are not safe from their evil.”

Source: Sunan At-Tirmidhi 2263

Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to At-Tirmidhi
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Old 01-24-2016, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,588,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned View Post
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Shall I not tell you what distinguishes the best of you from the worst of you? The best of you are those from whom goodness is expected and people are safe from their evil. The worst of you are those from whom goodness is not expected and people are not safe from their evil.”

Source: Sunan At-Tirmidhi 2263

Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to At-Tirmidhi
This is common sense.
Btw, whatever that is authenticated as words of Allah must be cross-referenced to the relevant verses in the Quran.


If you term the above as wisdom, then it is very kindergarten wisdom because the above statement is not universal.
What is good to Islam [& Muslims] as in the Quran may not be universally good to all humans.


What is "good" to the evil prone Muslims of ISIS and other terror groups in accordance with the Quran is universally evil to mankind. This is proven by the real terrible evils and violence committed by evil prone Muslims who follow what Allah has commanded and permitted then to act in the Quran.
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Old 01-26-2016, 10:39 AM
 
120 posts, read 107,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
This is common sense.
If you term the above as wisdom, then it is very kindergarten wisdom because the above statement is not universal.
What is good to Islam [& Muslims] as in the Quran may not be universally good to all humans.

And who said it was directed to all humanity? it is directed to Muslims so your statement here is based on ignorance of this fact BTW


and saying it is common sense, so what? what is your point! for example steeling is bad and that is common sense, but didn't We have a law that says a steeler will be punished? and so on?
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Old 01-26-2016, 05:44 PM
 
39,217 posts, read 10,895,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NABILBB View Post
And who said it was directed to all humanity? it is directed to Muslims so your statement here is based on ignorance of this fact BTW


and saying it is common sense, so what? what is your point! for example steeling is bad and that is common sense, but didn't We have a law that says a steeler will be punished? and so on?
The site is open to all humanity - not just Muslims. And, if you want to say that the intent is just to reaffirm to Muslim that the Quran is full of the blindingly obvious that is presented as wisdom, then do so by al means. But you cannot stop us from observing on a forum open to all that not only is the point one that was obvious even in 2nd millennium BC Babylon, but appropriate punishments had been devised.

Nobody gets a free pass or an easy ride here, and Islamic wisdom is going to have to be a bit more impressive than that before we unbelievers look, shrug our shoulders, think "Ok" and pass on without comment.

Have another rummage.
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Old 01-26-2016, 09:07 PM
 
4,431 posts, read 1,654,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
The site is open to all humanity - not just Muslims. And, if you want to say that the intent is just to reaffirm to Muslim that the Quran is full of the blindingly obvious that is presented as wisdom, then do so by al means. But you cannot stop us from observing on a forum open to all that not only is the point one that was obvious even in 2nd millennium BC Babylon, but appropriate punishments had been devised.

Nobody gets a free pass or an easy ride here, and Islamic wisdom is going to have to be a bit more impressive than that before we unbelievers look, shrug our shoulders, think "Ok" and pass on without comment.

Have another rummage.
If I am not mistaken, what NABILBB tried to say is that, the hadeeth (or saying) of the prophet Muhammad (saw) was directed towards Muslims as to how they should be beneficial to others.

NABILBB perhaps did not mean to say that his message on a public forum was direct to Muslims only and/or non-Muslims cannot comment. I don't think he meant that.
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Old 01-26-2016, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,588,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NABILBB View Post
And who said it was directed to all humanity? it is directed to Muslims so your statement here is based on ignorance of this fact BTW

and saying it is common sense, so what? what is your point! for example steeling is bad and that is common sense, but didn't We have a law that says a steeler will be punished? and so on?
Btw, the Quran is directed at all humans [all mankind] and the kuffar are threatened with Hell if they do not accept the Quran.
Therefore that Islamic Wisdom is directed at humanity.
Now who is the ignorant one?
Your problem here is you do not consider the full context of reality and humanity.


I understand the basic evils, i.e. stealing, lying, killing, etc. is universally evil to all humans.


However, note my point again;
What is good to Islam [& Muslims] as in the Quran may not be universally good to all humans.

What is "good" to the evil prone Muslims of ISIS and other terror groups in accordance with the Quran is universally evil to mankind.
This is proven by the real terrible evils and violence committed by evil prone Muslims who follow what Allah has commanded and permitted then to act in the Quran.


My point;
What I am trying to say is Muslims must think again when they act on what is 'good' in the Islamic sense.
For example, SOME evil prone believed it is 'good' to kill non-Muslims when other non-Muslims draw the cartoons of Muhammad.
In this case what is deemed 'good' to some Muslims is universally 'evil.'
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:40 AM
 
120 posts, read 107,601 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
The site is open to all humanity - not just Muslims. And, if you want to say that the intent is just to reaffirm to Muslim that the Quran is full of the blindingly obvious that is presented as wisdom, then do so by al means. But you cannot stop us from observing on a forum open to all that not only is the point one that was obvious even in 2nd millennium BC Babylon, but appropriate punishments had been devised.

Nobody gets a free pass or an easy ride here, and Islamic wisdom is going to have to be a bit more impressive than that before we unbelievers look, shrug our shoulders, think "Ok" and pass on without comment.

Have another rummage.
let me start from "pass without comment" obviously you are wrong and talking out of ignorant about me ...right?


ok, I was not that clear. I know it is a public forum and everyone is welcome.. but what I meant was, a Hadith is directed to Muslims, you as an Atheist (I guess), are you suppose to follow the Hadith? no Sir. you are not
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:53 AM
 
120 posts, read 107,601 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Btw, the Quran is directed at all humans [all mankind] and the kuffar are threatened with Hell if they do not accept the Quran.
Therefore that Islamic Wisdom is directed at humanity.
Now who is the ignorant one?

Still, you are the ignorant here .... sorry
The Quran as a whole is directed to Humanity, but it is directed to Muslims only when it comes to specifics. for example, the Quran is a book of Guidance to all humanity. but the rules in it for example "Sharia Law" is only for those who accepted Islam. see who it is complicated for you?


besides We are talking about a specific Hadith right


Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Your problem here is you do not consider the full context of reality and humanity.
I understand the basic evils, i.e. stealing, lying, killing, etc. is universally evil to all humans.

Not getting the point here... sorry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
For example, SOME evil prone believed it is 'good' to kill non-Muslims when other non-Muslims draw the cartoons of Muhammad.
In this case what is deemed 'good' to some Muslims is universally 'evil.'

Talk about people all you want, that doesn't interest me. but If you show me where in the Quran or Hadith says "it is Good to kill non-Muslims" then We have a topic to talk about
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,588,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NABILBB View Post
Still, you are the ignorant here .... sorry
The Quran as a whole is directed to Humanity, but it is directed to Muslims only when it comes to specifics. for example, the Quran is a book of Guidance to all humanity. but the rules in it for example "Sharia Law" is only for those who accepted Islam. see who it is complicated for you?
Point 1.
So you agree the Quran is directed to Humanity. [You missed this critical earlier.]


Point 2
For a person to be a Muslim, s/he must enter [explicitly or implicitly] with Allah.
Once a Muslim, s/he must comply with all the relevant terms and conditions of the covenant as stipulated in the Quran [the only words of Allah] and no where else.
There is no need for "Sharia Law" that is compiled by fallible humans and added with "bidah" that are not in accordance with what Allah intended as in the Quran.
What is most critical for the individual Muslim to comply with the terms as agreed with Allah as in the Quran and nothing else.


When humans compiled "Sharia Laws" they are going against Allah when they "add" terms, conditions, Laws that are not in compliance with the Quran.


In principle, on Judgment Day, how are those who comply with Sharia rules that are not in the Quran justify their deeds to Allah.
On Judgment Day, Allah will pull out your Sijjirin [book of evils] and show you why some of the Sharia rules you adopted are not in accordance with what Allah stipulated in the Quran. Allah will punish you for that sin.


Quote:
Talk about people all you want, that doesn't interest me. but If you show me where in the Quran or Hadith says "it is Good to kill non-Muslims" then We have a topic to talk about
There are many hadiths that inspire SOME evil prone to kill non-Muslims and other Muslims under certain conditions.
Those Muslims who adopt the Ahadiths will have to be responsible for the evils and violence that inspired SOME evil prone Muslims to commit those evil deeds.
I believe the Ahadiths is not critical and primary to Islam. The Ahadiths are merely expositions, guidance and explanatory notes to Islam.


The Quran is the primary texts [the sole words of Allah] and carry the sole authority for Islam.
There are no verses in the Quran that state "it is Good to kill non-Muslim."
It is the whole Quran in its full context that inspire SOME [not all] evil prone Muslims to kill non-Muslims and other Muslims in the name of Islam and Muhammad.
More that 55% of the 6,236 verses in the Quran contain evil [negative] laden that are directed at non-Muslims with contempt and 'hatred.' [of various degrees].
Besides there are 300+ verses that directly and indirectly inspire SOME [not all] evil prone Muslims to kill non-Muslims upon certain vague conditions.


The problem is these vague conditions [corruption, mischiefs, wronged, threat, hindrance] are so loose that SOME Muslims [in their own valid interpretation] are permitted to kill non-Muslims with the slightest insults or misperceived threats.
Note the case of the drawing of cartoons of Muhammad.
The presence of foreign troops and personnel in Islamic land are interpreted as a threat and hindrance to Islam. Therefore the Muslims are exhorted to be Mujahideens to strive for the cause of Allah with their wealth and their land.
The whole context of the Quran give a sense of false arrogance to many Muslims such that they must subjugate, dominate, suppress, oppressed and step-on non-Muslims. This is very immoral and condone by Allah in the Quran.


There are many other evil elements in the Quran that combine and compound with negative synergy that inspire SOME evil prone Muslims to kill and commit all sorts of evils on non-Muslims and other Muslims.
This is glaringly proven with the terrible evils and violence that are committed by SOME evil prone Muslims around the world since Islam emerged to the present and it can only get worse in the future when WMDs and other arms are easily and cheaply obtainable.
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Old 01-28-2016, 10:22 AM
 
120 posts, read 107,601 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Point 1.
So you agree the Quran is directed to Humanity. [You missed this critical earlier.]

No, I didn't miss it, as I said, on my first post I was talking about a Hadith you quoted, I was not talking about the Quran.... Don't put words in my mouth please


Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Point 2
For a person to be a Muslim, s/he must enter [explicitly or implicitly] with Allah.
Once a Muslim, s/he must comply with all the relevant terms and conditions of the covenant as stipulated in the Quran [the only words of Allah] and no where else.
There is no need for "Sharia Law" that is compiled by fallible humans and added with "bidah" that are not in accordance with what Allah intended as in the Quran.
What is most critical for the individual Muslim to comply with the terms as agreed with Allah as in the Quran and nothing else.




When humans compiled "Sharia Laws" they are going against Allah when they "add" terms, conditions, Laws that are not in compliance with the Quran.

Islam 101 (You are Welcome)
Sources of Law in Islam is
1. Quran
2. Authentic Hadith
3. Consensus of Scholars - and this is still taken from a hadith "My nation will not unite on misguidance, so if you see them differing, follow the great majority” Source





Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
There are many hadiths that inspire SOME evil prone to kill non-Muslims and other Muslims under certain conditions.
Those Muslims who adopt the Ahadiths will have to be responsible for the evils and violence that inspired SOME evil prone Muslims to commit those evil deeds.
I believe the Ahadiths is not critical and primary to Islam. The Ahadiths are merely expositions, guidance and explanatory notes to Islam.


The Quran is the primary texts [the sole words of Allah] and carry the sole authority for Islam.
There are no verses in the Quran that state "it is Good to kill non-Muslim."
It is the whole Quran in its full context that inspire SOME [not all] evil prone Muslims to kill non-Muslims and other Muslims in the name of Islam and Muhammad.
More that 55% of the 6,236 verses in the Quran contain evil [negative] laden that are directed at non-Muslims with contempt and 'hatred.' [of various degrees].
Besides there are 300+ verses that directly and indirectly inspire SOME [not all] evil prone Muslims to kill non-Muslims upon certain vague conditions.


The problem is these vague conditions [corruption, mischiefs, wronged, threat, hindrance] are so loose that SOME Muslims [in their own valid interpretation] are permitted to kill non-Muslims with the slightest insults or misperceived threats.
Note the case of the drawing of cartoons of Muhammad.
The presence of foreign troops and personnel in Islamic land are interpreted as a threat and hindrance to Islam. Therefore the Muslims are exhorted to be Mujahideens to strive for the cause of Allah with their wealth and their land.
The whole context of the Quran give a sense of false arrogance to many Muslims such that they must subjugate, dominate, suppress, oppressed and step-on non-Muslims. This is very immoral and condone by Allah in the Quran.


There are many other evil elements in the Quran that combine and compound with negative synergy that inspire SOME evil prone Muslims to kill and commit all sorts of evils on non-Muslims and other Muslims.
This is glaringly proven with the terrible evils and violence that are committed by SOME evil prone Muslims around the world since Islam emerged to the present and it can only get worse in the future when WMDs and other arms are easily and cheaply obtainable.

Present specific verses/Hadith and We can examine them


and please keep your posts a bit shorter I am getting bored and no much time here. just go to the point without rumbling if you don't mind
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