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Old 01-27-2016, 02:35 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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18:83 They will ask thee of Dhul-Qarneyn. Say: I shall recite unto you a remembrance of him.
Dhul-Qarneyn is a great figure in the Quran
Because Alexander the Great was also a great person in history many commentators associated Dhul-Qarneyn with him.


Yusuf Ali identifies Zul-Qarnain as Alexander the Great when he states:
  • "Personally, I have not the least doubt that Zul-Qarnain is meant to be Alexander the Great, the historic Alexander, and not the legendary Alexander..."
There have been many arguments on whether Zul-Qarnain is or is-not Alexander the Great.


However, I believe here is one critical reason why Zul-Qarnain cannot be Alexander the Great.
It is claimed that Alexander the Great was a homosexual.

Among the historical male couples where both partners were adults are Pausanias of Athens and the tragic poet Agathon who was already in his thirties. The legendary love between Alexander the Great and his childhood friend Hephaestion is sometimes regarded as being of the same order.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homose...t_male_couples
Since homosexuality is such a serious sin within Islam it is very unlikely that Zul-Quranian in the Quran [18:83] refers to Alexander the Great in History.

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Old 01-27-2016, 04:17 AM
 
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I dont believe it's the same person as you said if we look at his life his attitude wasn't very pious.

Some said Dhul Qarnayn was the son of a Pharaoh. You will never hear the same answer about who he was.
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Old 01-27-2016, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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The name Alexander comes from what he was called in Arabic "al-Eskandra". It seems probable that is what would have been used in the Qur'an if it was intended for us to know who "Zul-Qarnain" is.

I personally do not think it is intended for us to know who is being referred to.
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Old 01-27-2016, 09:45 PM
 
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The point is many Muslims are brainwashed with a false sense of arrogance that Islam is the GREATEST of ALL.
It with such an arrogant attitude that many associate whatever is recognized as great by the majority in history is linked with Islam where possible.
These Muslims [e.g. Yusuf Ali and others] will be very inclined to compromise the truth [subliminally] to feel great.


The reason is Islam do not promote the security and growth of the self-esteem of the majority because Islam itself [collectively] has low self-esteem. In addition, Muslims are very highly sensitive to any negative against the religion.


I believe Muslims should enhance their growth of their self-esteem by adopting other methods on the side that are specific to the development of one's self-esteem.


Muslims who cling to the religion like there is no tomorrow will surely regress in terms of universal human values. This is very glaring as proven in cases where MANY [not all] Muslims or convert suddenly get serious and pious with Islam, the become the most evil people on Earth when they are directly inspired by the evil laden elements in the Quran and ethos [in-part] of Islam.
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Old 01-28-2016, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The point is many Muslims are brainwashed with a false sense of arrogance that Islam is the GREATEST of ALL.
It with such an arrogant attitude that many associate whatever is recognized as great by the majority in history is linked with Islam where possible.
These Muslims [e.g. Yusuf Ali and others] will be very inclined to compromise the truth [subliminally] to feel great.


The reason is Islam do not promote the security and growth of the self-esteem of the majority because Islam itself [collectively] has low self-esteem. In addition, Muslims are very highly sensitive to any negative against the religion.


I believe Muslims should enhance their growth of their self-esteem by adopting other methods on the side that are specific to the development of one's self-esteem.


Muslims who cling to the religion like there is no tomorrow will surely regress in terms of universal human values. This is very glaring as proven in cases where MANY [not all] Muslims or convert suddenly get serious and pious with Islam, the become the most evil people on Earth when they are directly inspired by the evil laden elements in the Quran and ethos [in-part] of Islam.
I assume by Yusuf Ali you are speaking of Abdullah Yusuf Ali. The Qur'an translator.

While it is true he is accepted as being one the first Muslims to Translate the Qur'an into English he is not generally considered to be an Islamic Scholar and his commentaries are not widely accepted among Muslims. His forte was linguistics not interpretations or commentary. He is the only Commentator I know of that expressed the idea that "Zul-Qarnain" might be "Alexander the Great"

Yes we are very sensitive against any negative comments against Allaah(swt) and Muhammad(saws) primarily, because people tend to use them as insults and disdain against all Muslims and use them in the form of personal attacks.

Muslims generally are not arrogant. I do not see how disdain of arrogance equates to low self-esteem.

Yes we do cling to Islam like there is no tomorrow as we are quite certain it is the only method of worship instituted by Allaah(swt). The world is like a massive ocean and Islam is the boat that keeps us afloat in it.
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Old 01-28-2016, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I assume by Yusuf Ali you are speaking of Abdullah Yusuf Ali. The Qur'an translator.

While it is true he is accepted as being one the first Muslims to Translate the Qur'an into English he is not generally considered to be an Islamic Scholar and his commentaries are not widely accepted among Muslims. His forte was linguistics not interpretations or commentary. He is the only Commentator I know of that expressed the idea that "Zul-Qarnain" might be "Alexander the Great"
I have not done a thorough survey but I think there were many Islamic Scholars and commentators who identify Dhul-Qurnayn as Alexander the Great from the time of Ibn Hisham in the Sira who did not know Alexander the Great was a homosexual, note;
Historically, Muslim scholars have endorsed the identification of Dhul-Qarnayn with Alexander the Great. The earliest identification between Alexander and Dhul-Qarnayn was made by the Muslim hagiographer Ibn Hisham in the Sira literature. This identification with Alexander is also endorsed by Islamic tafsir (exegesis) literature dating from the fifteenth century.
Macedonia Documents: Quran and Islam on Alexander the Great
Quote:
Yes we are very sensitive against any negative comments against Allaah(swt) and Muhammad(saws) primarily, because people tend to use them as insults and disdain against all Muslims and use them in the form of personal attacks.
If one is sensitive to insults, negative comments, then one is very immature psychologically as a human being and thus need to improve.


I understand there will always be a NATURAL percentile of people who are anti [against] what is not aligned with their ideologies and interests. This is natural.
However one will note there are a much greater % of people who are critical and made negative commentary about Islam. There are not a lot of criticisms against Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism, while Christianity and Judaism do have criticisms but not as critical and voluminous as criticism against Islam.


The additional number of good people above the natural % [not the natural bigots] who critique Islam [Muslims wrongly interpret as insult and negative] are doing it in response to the evil manifestations of Islam-in-part. This is like good people criticizing Nazism.


I believe ALL Muslims must own up to the truth that Islam-in-part inherently contain evil elements that inspire evil prone Muslims [pool of 300 million potentials]. Thus they should recognize the criticism of this evil aspect of Islam as a positive and constructive criticism and not as an insult.


In addition most Muslims [not all] should find ways other than from Islam to develop and manage their sensitiveness and not make themselves to unnecessary sufferings due to misperceptions they are insulted.


Quote:
Muslims generally are not arrogant. I do not see how disdain of arrogance equates to low self-esteem.
Note there are a ton of research that demonstrate the correlation between high arrogance and low self-esteem. one example amongst the many;
https://www.quora.com/How-is-arrogan...ow-self-esteem
In low self esteem, they are being overconfident to compensate for their actual dreadfully low self confidence.
They will exhibit signs of "confidence" - even arrogance, such as not listening to others, always thinking themselves right and best; however, that is actually from their insecurity.
They are only so arrogant because their self-esteem is so fragile they can't bear to admit they are wrong or risk their entire confident façade crumbling to reveal the vulnerable bundle of insecurity beneath.

Quote:
Yes we do cling to Islam like there is no tomorrow as we are quite certain it is the only method of worship instituted by Allaah(swt). The world is like a massive ocean and Islam is the boat that keep us afloat in it.
It is more like MANY [not all] are cling to Islam like clinging to a twig to keep afloat in the middle of the ocean. Any slight tug at the twig [comments by non-Muslims] is a threat their drowning and survival.


"Clinging-ness" is a critical contributor to the suffering and a negative to the well being of the individual.


Unfortunately Islam [in the Quran] reinforces "clinging-ness" to its central doctrine of eternal life. This is a detrimental to one's well being.
As such Muslims [not all] must deal and manage this impulse of clinging-ness to reduce their sufferings and sensitivity that extent to committing evil and violence on non-Muslims.
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Old 01-30-2016, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I have not done a thorough survey but I think there were many Islamic Scholars and commentators who identify Dhul-Qurnayn as Alexander the Great from the time of Ibn Hisham in the Sira who did not know Alexander the Great was a homosexual, note;
Historically, Muslim scholars have endorsed the identification of Dhul-Qarnayn with Alexander the Great. The earliest identification between Alexander and Dhul-Qarnayn was made by the Muslim hagiographer Ibn Hisham in the Sira literature. This identification with Alexander is also endorsed by Islamic tafsir (exegesis) literature dating from the fifteenth century.
Macedonia Documents: Quran and Islam on Alexander the Great
If one is sensitive to insults, negative comments, then one is very immature psychologically as a human being and thus need to improve.


I understand there will always be a NATURAL percentile of people who are anti [against] what is not aligned with their ideologies and interests. This is natural.
However one will note there are a much greater % of people who are critical and made negative commentary about Islam. There are not a lot of criticisms against Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism, while Christianity and Judaism do have criticisms but not as critical and voluminous as criticism against Islam.


The additional number of good people above the natural % [not the natural bigots] who critique Islam [Muslims wrongly interpret as insult and negative] are doing it in response to the evil manifestations of Islam-in-part. This is like good people criticizing Nazism.


I believe ALL Muslims must own up to the truth that Islam-in-part inherently contain evil elements that inspire evil prone Muslims [pool of 300 million potentials]. Thus they should recognize the criticism of this evil aspect of Islam as a positive and constructive criticism and not as an insult.


In addition most Muslims [not all] should find ways other than from Islam to develop and manage their sensitiveness and not make themselves to unnecessary sufferings due to misperceptions they are insulted.


Note there are a ton of research that demonstrate the correlation between high arrogance and low self-esteem. one example amongst the many;
https://www.quora.com/How-is-arrogan...ow-self-esteem
In low self esteem, they are being overconfident to compensate for their actual dreadfully low self confidence.
They will exhibit signs of "confidence" - even arrogance, such as not listening to others, always thinking themselves right and best; however, that is actually from their insecurity.
They are only so arrogant because their self-esteem is so fragile they can't bear to admit they are wrong or risk their entire confident façade crumbling to reveal the vulnerable bundle of insecurity beneath.

It is more like MANY [not all] are cling to Islam like clinging to a twig to keep afloat in the middle of the ocean. Any slight tug at the twig [comments by non-Muslims] is a threat their drowning and survival.


"Clinging-ness" is a critical contributor to the suffering and a negative to the well being of the individual.


Unfortunately Islam [in the Quran] reinforces "clinging-ness" to its central doctrine of eternal life. This is a detrimental to one's well being.
As such Muslims [not all] must deal and manage this impulse of clinging-ness to reduce their sufferings and sensitivity that extent to committing evil and violence on non-Muslims.
Sensitivity is not necessarily a negative trait. In it's basic definition it equates to awareness. I do not consider awareness of insults as immaturity. The level of maturity would be better defined by the reaction to the insults, which is not the same as sensitivity.

Yes there is a high correlation between arrogance and low self esteem but correlation does not equate to causation. There is no certainty that the presence of either necessitates the presence of the other.

clinging-ness when expressed as tenacity can be a positive and even admirable attribute.

Regarding this:

Quote:
I understand there will always be a NATURAL percentile of people who are anti [against] what is not aligned with their ideologies and interests. This is natural.
However one will note there are a much greater % of people who are critical and made negative commentary about Islam. There are not a lot of criticisms against Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism, while Christianity and Judaism do have criticisms but not as critical and voluminous as criticism against Islam.
Perhaps that depends on what part of the world one is in. In the 49 Islamic nations I doubt you will find that to be true. Even among the Jewish population you will find more criticism of Christianity than of Islam. When Israel was established, many of the Palestinian and Arab Jews chose to migrate to Islamic nations.

Here in the Western world which is predominately Christian anti-Islamic views will dominate. In India which is predominately Hindu you will find there is very much fear and criticism of Christianity. India is very much more critical of Christianity than of Islam. You will also find that to be true in China and North Korea

Christian Aggression - Assault on India


https://christianwatchindia.wordpress.com/

Christian Aggression in India | Struggle for Hindu Existence

Petition Protest Christian Aggression in Orissa and India

as for this comment:

Quote:
As such Muslims [not all] must deal and manage this impulse of clinging-ness to reduce their sufferings and sensitivity that extent to committing evil and violence on non-Muslims.
except for the reaction to the Mohammad(saws) cartoons by the Shia I am not aware of that being a common or widespread occurrence.

Keep in mind the Muhammad(saws) cartoon displays and killings were the result of a Fatwa issued by the Ayatollah. Which is a Shi'ite thing. Only the Shi'a follow an ayatollah.
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Old 01-30-2016, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Sensitivity is not necessarily a negative trait. In it's basic definition it equates to awareness. I do not consider awareness of insults as immaturity. The level of maturity would be better defined by the reaction to the insults, which is not the same as sensitivity.


clinging-ness when expressed as tenacity can be a positive and even admirable attribute.
You are deflecting in this case. I am aware many human variables are double-edged depending on which edge one cuts with.
In this case I am referring to sensitiveness in the negative sense that is manifested into evils and violence by SOME evil laden Muslims.


When one cling to something like there is no tomorrow, one is in a very highly sensitive state of fears and insecurity. The slightest awareness of the actions of others is deem first as a threat that invoke the fight or flight response and ignored after review it is not a threat.


Quote:
except for the reaction to the Mohammad(saws) cartoons by the Shia I am not aware of that being a common or widespread occurrence.

Keep in mind the Muhammad(saws) cartoon displays and killings were the result of a Fatwa issued by the Ayatollah. Which is a Shi'ite thing. Only the Shi'a follow an ayatollah.
I know it was the Ayatollah who issued a Fatwa against Salman Rushdie.


However the reactions to the cartoons were mostly by the Sunni worldwide [including the Shia] that later resulted in the Paris attacks by Sunni jihadists.

Quote:
Yes there is a high correlation between arrogance and low self esteem but correlation does not equate to causation. There is no certainty that the presence of either necessitates the presence of the other.
Yes, correlation do not necessary equate to causation but it is most likely link to causation.
However one can compare, analyze, research and verify the links to causation in each individual case.
In this case, one can compare Buddhism which do not promote arrogance, has high self-esteem and the evidence there is no direct link between Buddhism [its texts] and violence.



Quote:
Regarding this:
Perhaps that depends on what part of the world one is in. In the 49 Islamic nations I doubt you will find that to be true. Even among the Jewish population you will find more criticism of Christianity than of Islam. When Israel was established, many of the Palestinian and Arab Jews chose to migrate to Islamic nations.

Here in the Western world which is predominately Christian anti-Islamic views will dominate. In India which is predominately Hindu you will find there is very much fear and criticism of Christianity. India is very much more critical of Christianity than of Islam. You will also find that to be true in China and North Korea

Christian Aggression - Assault on India


https://christianwatchindia.wordpress.com/

Christian Aggression in India | Struggle for Hindu Existence

Petition Protest Christian Aggression in Orissa and India
I suggest you read what I have deliberately bolded earlier, i.e.


"There are not a lot of criticisms against Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism, while Christianity and Judaism do have criticisms but not as critical and voluminous as criticism against Islam."


Note the term "critical" which implied the obvious violence and other great evils committed by SOME evil prone Muslims who are inspired by the evil laden elements in the Quran.


There are many criticisms of Christianity which you can read in this Religious and Spirituality Forum itself and elsewhere. However these criticisms of Christianity are not critical and they are also applied to Islam as well, e.g. on issues of abortion, proselytization, creationism, anti-evolution, etc.
Now what is most critical and applicable to Islam alone is the Islam-inspired violence and evils that are absent in Christianity, Buddhism, Jainism and others.


Therefore the criticisms against Islam at present that are most notable and of real concerns are those related to the critical issues that is a threat to humanity.
There are criticisms of the issues of abortion, proselytization, creationism, anti-evolution, etc. against Christianity as well as Islam but these criticism are not critical for the present moment.


Note my criticisms are not directly at Muslims who are collectively just the same as all other human beings which comprised of the good, the bad and the ugly.
Naturally, some Muslims [the bad and ugly ones] are vulnerable to be victims of the evil laden elements of Islam.
So the critical variable is the evil elements that exist inherently in part in Islam.
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Old 01-30-2016, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
You are deflecting in this case. I am aware many human variables are double-edged depending on which edge one cuts with.
In this case I am referring to sensitiveness in the negative sense that is manifested into evils and violence by SOME evil laden Muslims.


When one cling to something like there is no tomorrow, one is in a very highly sensitive state of fears and insecurity. The slightest awareness of the actions of others is deem first as a threat that invoke the fight or flight response and ignored after review it is not a threat.


I know it was the Ayatollah who issued a Fatwa against Salman Rushdie.


However the reactions to the cartoons were mostly by the Sunni worldwide [including the Shia] that later resulted in the Paris attacks by Sunni jihadists.

Yes, correlation do not necessary equate to causation but it is most likely link to causation.
However one can compare, analyze, research and verify the links to causation in each individual case.
In this case, one can compare Buddhism which do not promote arrogance, has high self-esteem and the evidence there is no direct link between Buddhism [its texts] and violence.



I suggest you read what I have deliberately bolded earlier, i.e.


"There are not a lot of criticisms against Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism, while Christianity and Judaism do have criticisms but not as critical and voluminous as criticism against Islam."


Note the term "critical" which implied the obvious violence and other great evils committed by SOME evil prone Muslims who are inspired by the evil laden elements in the Quran.


There are many criticisms of Christianity which you can read in this Religious and Spirituality Forum itself and elsewhere. However these criticisms of Christianity are not critical and they are also applied to Islam as well, e.g. on issues of abortion, proselytization, creationism, anti-evolution, etc.
Now what is most critical and applicable to Islam alone is the Islam-inspired violence and evils that are absent in Christianity, Buddhism, Jainism and others.


Therefore the criticisms against Islam at present that are most notable and of real concerns are those related to the critical issues that is a threat to humanity.
There are criticisms of the issues of abortion, proselytization, creationism, anti-evolution, etc. against Christianity as well as Islam but these criticism are not critical for the present moment.


Note my criticisms are not directly at Muslims who are collectively just the same as all other human beings which comprised of the good, the bad and the ugly.
Naturally, some Muslims [the bad and ugly ones] are vulnerable to be victims of the evil laden elements of Islam.
So the critical variable is the evil elements that exist inherently in part in Islam.
Actually in India and the Muslim Nations I have found criticism of Christianity to be very critical even here (In the Dakotas) among non-Christian Native Americans there is considerable hatred of christianity. My wife was one of the children kidnapped in the 1940s from the reservation to be raised in "a good Christian Atmosphere" at about the age of 14 she escaped and made her way back to the Rez. These kidnappings continue even to present day and their is a lot of Critical criticism of Christianity.

I believe that in the non-Islamic / non-Christian nations there is considerably more critical disdain of Christianity than of Islam. Although nearly half the world is either Muslim or Christian, the majority is still neither and that majority has much more hatred and critical disdain of Christians than of Muslims. While there are very few countries that are not Christian or Muslim Majority Those few contain over 1/2 the world's population. China and India alone contain 1/3 the wold's population and both are very critical of Christianity and more tolerant of Muslims.
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Old 01-30-2016, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Actually in India and the Muslim Nations I have found criticism of Christianity to be very critical even here (In the Dakotas) among non-Christian Native Americans there is considerable hatred of christianity. My wife was one of the children kidnapped in the 1940s from the reservation to be raised in "a good Christian Atmosphere" at about the age of 14 she escaped and made her way back to the Rez. These kidnappings continue even to present day and their is a lot of Critical criticism of Christianity.

I believe that in the non-Islamic / non-Christian nations there is considerably more critical disdain of Christianity than of Islam. Although nearly half the world is either Muslim or Christian, the majority is still neither and that majority has much more hatred and critical disdain of Christians than of Muslims. While there are very few countries that are not Christian or Muslim Majority Those few contain over 1/2 the world's population. China and India alone contain 1/3 the wold's population and both are very critical of Christianity and more tolerant of Muslims.
500 years ago and earlier there were serious criticisms of Christians re the Inquisitions and other evils committed by Christians.
But since then, the critical criticisms against Christians has been waning to the present.


Note I bolded Christians not Christianity. The criticisms was on Christians [not Christianity] who did not comply with the overriding pacifist maxims of the NT, e.g. love your enemies.


In contrast, the critical criticism with Islam is on Islam itself the religion and not so much on Muslims as human beings.
Criticizing Islam is criticizing its evil laden elements which is inherent [in part] within Islam itself.

Hope you see the difference.
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