U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-02-2016, 08:44 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 752,279 times
Reputation: 435

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
That must be an utter lie.
Nope, here is his direct quote:

"as for all disbelievers going to hell. I think it is sad that they choose to do so. but the choice is there own. It is through their own decisions and choices that they choose to go to hell. Every person that ends up in hell is perfectly aware that they were not 'Sent" there. They knew they had the choice between heaven and hell and they chose freely and with knowledge."

He also said something about allah being full of love as he threatens people with endless horrible torture at his hands

ALL Muslims think this way. They even give an analogy: If you are told not to do something and you do it anyways, you deserve what you get.

They ignore that the one who warns them is the one who will be doing the terrible things to them. The warning is actually a threat. And hate speech.

I have already discussed how it is impossible to change a belief in an instant through initiation of force and also that good people do not want to start following an evil ideology cooked up by a pedophile psychopath.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-02-2016, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,289,226 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
At least with the above you are very truthful that the Quran contain both good and evil elements.
It is a fact, the Quran contains two truths, i.e. good and evil. note the Duck-Rabbit in one image.
Good people will be inclined to the good elements and evil prone people will 'feast' on the evil elements.


The fact is 20% of all humans, thus 20% of Muslims, are naturally prone to evil by birth.
Therefore when evil elements exists in the Quran [Islam] it is inevitable part of Islam [the evil laden verses] will facilitate the evil prone to commit terrible evils and violence.


Therefore as long as Islam exists within humanity, there will always be SOME naturally born evil prone Muslims who are influenced and inspired by the evil laden elements in the Quran to commit terrible evils and violence. This is very real and the evidence is very glaring.
Those who desire to find evil or anticipate they will find it, will find such where ever they seek it, it is a psychological desire to either support an evil they desire to do or to support a concept they hold to be true.

The vast majority of violence done in the world is for criminal reasons, without any attempt at religious justification, which may be a valid reason for believing religion decreases violence.

Those of use who believe the Qur'an instillsl peace believe that those parts non-Muslims claim are violent serve as lessons as to why we should avoid evil They are a guidance to avoid evil.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2016, 12:43 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,301 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Those who desire to find evil or anticipate they will find it, will find such where ever they seek it, it is a psychological desire to either support an evil they desire to do or to support a concept they hold to be true.
Those who are evil prone find evil in the Quran [Islam] because the evil elements exist in the Quran [Islam] in part.


Note Buddhism and other pacifist religion. If one is a Buddhist and evil prone, one will not be able to find any evil and commit evil from the Buddhist sutras because there are no leading evil elements.


Quote:
The vast majority of violence done in the world is for criminal reasons, without any attempt at religious justification, which may be a valid reason for believing religion decreases violence.
Most of the secular [non-religious] evils and violence in the world are done for criminal reasons.


However religious inspired evils and violence are committed as driven by religious compulsions relating to evil laden elements in the holy texts [e.g. in the Quran].
Most believers fears going to Hell and they will comply with whatever is in the Holy texts from God.
If the holy texts contain evil laden elements, then it is like the 20% natural born believers [ a pool of 300 million in the case of Muslims] will comply with the evil laden elements to avoid going to Hell with intention to end up in Paradise.
No zealous Muslims will dare to go against the words of Allah for fear of going to Hell. Therefore it is very unlikely those [SOME] Muslims who commit terrible evils and violence are doing on their own criminal thoughts. Rather they are obeying and complying with Allah's words and in the Quran.


Note the recent case of a Muslimah holding a child's head in the streets of Moscow.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...w-reports-say/
A woman dressed in black shouting, ““Allahu Akbar,” and, “I am a terrorist,” while carrying the decapitated head of a child has been arrested at a subway stop in Moscow, reports say.
We were told that woman was suffering from schizophrenia.
This is a good example of my point.
This woman is one of those naturally born 20% evil prone people who were influenced by the evil laden verses in the Quran and it is a fact these evil laden verses [the beheadings, terror, etc.] are there in the Quran.
Now if these evil elements [the beheadings, slit neck, terror, kuffar, etc.] were not in the Quran at all, this mad woman would have no avenue to rely these evil laden element to behead the kafir child.
If this mad woman was not a Muslim, I don't believe she would have behead a kafir child. Being schizophrenic with evil propensity, she may commit other sorts of evil but not those influenced by the evil elements from Islam [Quran] in part.


Quote:
Those of use who believe the Qur'an instillsl peace believe that those parts non-Muslims claim are violent serve as lessons as to why we should avoid evil They are a guidance to avoid evil.
This is very your thinking is very narrow and emotionally bias.
The fact is 80% of Muslims may be peaceful prone but it is natural there are 20% of Muslim who are born with evil tendencies of various degrees.
While you agree with their existence, you don't seem to take into account the seriousness and reality of the presence of 20% of Muslims [as with all humans] who were naturally born with evil tendencies in the brain.


In the first place, the evil laden elements should not have been included in the Quran as proclaimed to be from the words of God.
Fact is there is no God and these evil laden elements were in the Quran because it was authored by human[s] who were ignorant of human nature and psychology.
In contrast the more matured religion like Buddhism-proper understood the sensitivity of such matter [human psychology] and avoided all possibility to include leading evil laden elements in their Sutras.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2016, 05:46 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,039,481 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Those who are evil prone find evil in the Quran [Islam] because the evil elements exist in the Quran [Islam] in part.
What you or any evil person sees in the Qur'an as "evil elements" are in fact elements to stop evil. Taking just one verse out of the Qur'anic context and regarding it evil laden is a mistake.

"Everyone is evil-prone as well as good-prone. All have the potential to do good and do evil. Finding evil somewhere outside their Self is just an excuse not to get blamed for it. Evil is not in the text or material but in what they do that makes it evil or good. In Islam, man has potential do to good as well as evil act. The idea through the Qur'an is doing good and forbidding evil by controlling one's Self so that it does only good and not evil. Every verse of the Qur'an must be understood in that Qur'anic/Islamic context. There is nothing in the Qur'an that overrides its context.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2016, 06:24 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 752,279 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
What you or any evil person sees in the Qur'an as "evil elements" are in fact elements to stop evil. Taking just one verse out of the Qur'anic context and regarding it evil laden is a mistake.
Nonsense. The evil is clear. Further, all we have to do is look at reality. How do Muslims act? Like peaceful, loving people? No way. The terrorism and rioting and mass rapes!

The truth is, the Quran defines 'evil' as 'disbeliever', or non-Muslim. All non-Muslims are evil according to the Quran and hate/violence against them is justified if the will not submit to Islam. So when you say "What you or any evil person sees in the Qur'an as "evil elements" are in fact elements to stop evil", what you mean is what any rational person sees in the Qur'an as "evil elements" are in fact elements to eliminate all non-Muslims. The definition of evil, to Muhammed and all Muslims, is ....non-Muslim. Murder, rape, theft, torture, everlasting burning, slavery....none of those things is considered evil at all if done to non-Muslims. They are considered GOOD! Every evil is defended by all Muslims.

This would not be the case if Muslims understood the difference between good and evil and acted accordingly:

"As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone. In fact, they may be featured in articles and films, stereotyped for their colorful uniqueness:

United States -- Muslim 1.0%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1%-2%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs:

Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.

They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. ( United States ).

France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- Muslim 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad &Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islam is not to convert the world but to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions ( Paris --car-burnings). Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats ( Amsterdam - Mohammed cartoons).

Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 10-15%

After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning:
Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare:

Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:

Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide:

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace -- there's supposed to be peace because everybody is a Muslim:

Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 99.9%

Of course, that's not the case. To satisfy their blood lust, Muslims then start killing each other for a variety of reasons.

'Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; and the tribe against the world and all of us against the infidel. – Leon Uris, 'The Haj'

Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2016, 08:17 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,039,481 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Nonsense. The evil is clear. Further, all we have to do is look at reality. How do Muslims act? Like peaceful, loving people? No way. The terrorism and rioting and mass rapes!
I do not do any terrorism, rioting and mass rape; never have. I don't know even one Muslim in my family, mosque and the local community who has done any of these things.
Why don't you mention such Muslims or see how these Muslim do?
It's quite clear here what your agenda is against ALL Muslims.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2016, 08:36 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 752,279 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
I do not do any terrorism, rioting and mass rape; never have. I don't know even one Muslim in my family, mosque and the local community who has done any of these things.
Why don't you mention such Muslims or see how these Muslim do?
It's quite clear here what your agenda is against ALL Muslims.
ALL Muslims support and follow an ideology that promotes rape, pedophilia, mass rape, terrorism, etc. EVERY Muslim supports and follows this ideology. If you are against these things, why do you follow an ideology that promotes these things? Why didn't you say you were horrified and sickened that the elderly woman was ripped apart by Muhammed's gang and Muhammed was evil not to punish them?

There are Muslims that participated in terrorist activities once spoke against terrorism. Muslims that speak about peace and toleration are caught funding terrorist activities. You refuse to admit Muhammed had sex with a 9 year old child and defend him even though history showed him to be a warlord and slave trader. You can plainly see the hate in the Quran, yet you pretend it is not there.

I have spoken to well over 3,000 Muslims. NOT ONE of these Muslims would say that Muhammed was wrong to do any of these horrible things.

You might have a case except for three things: We can read the quran and hadiths and we can see how Muslims are acting...today and in the past. And, I catch you and other Muslims in lies over and over.

You can't erase reality. A is A.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2016, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,289,226 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Those who are evil prone find evil in the Quran [Islam] because the evil elements exist in the Quran [Islam] in part.


Note Buddhism and other pacifist religion. If one is a Buddhist and evil prone, one will not be able to find any evil and commit evil from the Buddhist sutras because there are no leading evil elements.


Most of the secular [non-religious] evils and violence in the world are done for criminal reasons.


However religious inspired evils and violence are committed as driven by religious compulsions relating to evil laden elements in the holy texts [e.g. in the Quran].
Most believers fears going to Hell and they will comply with whatever is in the Holy texts from God.
If the holy texts contain evil laden elements, then it is like the 20% natural born believers [ a pool of 300 million in the case of Muslims] will comply with the evil laden elements to avoid going to Hell with intention to end up in Paradise.
No zealous Muslims will dare to go against the words of Allah for fear of going to Hell. Therefore it is very unlikely those [SOME] Muslims who commit terrible evils and violence are doing on their own criminal thoughts. Rather they are obeying and complying with Allah's words and in the Quran.


Note the recent case of a Muslimah holding a child's head in the streets of Moscow.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...w-reports-say/
A woman dressed in black shouting, ““Allahu Akbar,” and, “I am a terrorist,” while carrying the decapitated head of a child has been arrested at a subway stop in Moscow, reports say.
We were told that woman was suffering from schizophrenia.
This is a good example of my point.
This woman is one of those naturally born 20% evil prone people who were influenced by the evil laden verses in the Quran and it is a fact these evil laden verses [the beheadings, terror, etc.] are there in the Quran.
Now if these evil elements [the beheadings, slit neck, terror, kuffar, etc.] were not in the Quran at all, this mad woman would have no avenue to rely these evil laden element to behead the kafir child.
If this mad woman was not a Muslim, I don't believe she would have behead a kafir child. Being schizophrenic with evil propensity, she may commit other sorts of evil but not those influenced by the evil elements from Islam [Quran] in part.


This is very your thinking is very narrow and emotionally bias.
The fact is 80% of Muslims may be peaceful prone but it is natural there are 20% of Muslim who are born with evil tendencies of various degrees.
While you agree with their existence, you don't seem to take into account the seriousness and reality of the presence of 20% of Muslims [as with all humans] who were naturally born with evil tendencies in the brain.


In the first place, the evil laden elements should not have been included in the Quran as proclaimed to be from the words of God.
Fact is there is no God and these evil laden elements were in the Quran because it was authored by human[s] who were ignorant of human nature and psychology.
In contrast the more matured religion like Buddhism-proper understood the sensitivity of such matter [human psychology] and avoided all possibility to include leading evil laden elements in their Sutras.
Contrary to popular belief there are violent Sutras in Buddhism

For instance:

The Buddha…said…
”When I recall the past, I remember that I was the king of a great state…My name was Senyo, and I loved and venerated the Mahayana sutras…When I heard the Brahmins slandering the vaipulya sutras, I put them to death on the spot. Good men, as a result of that action, I never thereafter fell into hell. O good man! When we accept and defend the Mahayana sutras, we possess innumerable virtues.” [3]

Warrior Monks: The Untold Story of Buddhist Violence (I) | loonwatch.com

Like Islam it takes an evil minded person to come to the conclusion that Buddhism promotes violence. But like Islam it's scriptures do contain verses that can be considered violent to those that do not comprehend the purpose.

If one understands Islam they will understand that those "alleged" violent verses actually promote non-violence.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2016, 10:07 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,039,481 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
ALL Muslims support and follow an ideology that promotes rape, pedophilia, mass rape, terrorism, etc. EVERY Muslim supports and follows this ideology.
That is sheer hate against EVERY MUSLIM. Only an extremely hateful person will sterotype EVERY Muslim in such way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2016, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,289,226 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Those who are evil prone find evil in the Quran [Islam] because the evil elements exist in the Quran [Islam] in part.


Note Buddhism and other pacifist religion. If one is a Buddhist and evil prone, one will not be able to find any evil and commit evil from the Buddhist sutras because there are no leading evil elements.


Most of the secular [non-religious] evils and violence in the world are done for criminal reasons.


However religious inspired evils and violence are committed as driven by religious compulsions relating to evil laden elements in the holy texts [e.g. in the Quran].
Most believers fears going to Hell and they will comply with whatever is in the Holy texts from God.
If the holy texts contain evil laden elements, then it is like the 20% natural born believers [ a pool of 300 million in the case of Muslims] will comply with the evil laden elements to avoid going to Hell with intention to end up in Paradise.
No zealous Muslims will dare to go against the words of Allah for fear of going to Hell. Therefore it is very unlikely those [SOME] Muslims who commit terrible evils and violence are doing on their own criminal thoughts. Rather they are obeying and complying with Allah's words and in the Quran.


Note the recent case of a Muslimah holding a child's head in the streets of Moscow.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...w-reports-say/
A woman dressed in black shouting, ““Allahu Akbar,” and, “I am a terrorist,” while carrying the decapitated head of a child has been arrested at a subway stop in Moscow, reports say.
We were told that woman was suffering from schizophrenia.
This is a good example of my point.
This woman is one of those naturally born 20% evil prone people who were influenced by the evil laden verses in the Quran and it is a fact these evil laden verses [the beheadings, terror, etc.] are there in the Quran.
Now if these evil elements [the beheadings, slit neck, terror, kuffar, etc.] were not in the Quran at all, this mad woman would have no avenue to rely these evil laden element to behead the kafir child.
If this mad woman was not a Muslim, I don't believe she would have behead a kafir child. Being schizophrenic with evil propensity, she may commit other sorts of evil but not those influenced by the evil elements from Islam [Quran] in part.


This is very your thinking is very narrow and emotionally bias.
The fact is 80% of Muslims may be peaceful prone but it is natural there are 20% of Muslim who are born with evil tendencies of various degrees.
While you agree with their existence, you don't seem to take into account the seriousness and reality of the presence of 20% of Muslims [as with all humans] who were naturally born with evil tendencies in the brain.


In the first place, the evil laden elements should not have been included in the Quran as proclaimed to be from the words of God.
Fact is there is no God and these evil laden elements were in the Quran because it was authored by human[s] who were ignorant of human nature and psychology.
In contrast the more matured religion like Buddhism-proper understood the sensitivity of such matter [human psychology] and avoided all possibility to include leading evil laden elements in their Sutras.
Contrary to popular belief there are violent Sutras in Buddhism

For instance:

The Buddha…said…
”When I recall the past, I remember that I was the king of a great state…My name was Senyo, and I loved and venerated the Mahayana sutras…When I heard the Brahmins slandering the vaipulya sutras, I put them to death on the spot. Good men, as a result of that action, I never thereafter fell into hell. O good man! When we accept and defend the Mahayana sutras, we possess innumerable virtues.” [3]

Warrior Monks: The Untold Story of Buddhist Violence (I) | loonwatch.com

Like Islam it takes an evil minded person to come to the conclusion that Buddhism promotes violence. But like Islam it's scriptures do contain verses that can be considered violent to those that do not comprehend the purpose.

If one understands Islam they will understand that those "alleged" violent verses actually promote non-violence.

As for the Schizophrenic woman, there has been no validation she is Muslim. Her misconceptions and delusions seem to have been triggered by news accounts.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top