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Old 02-15-2016, 10:25 PM
 
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Charley Mansion is still inside doing some serious time because he believed, among other things, that the
Beatles' White Album revealed to him that massacre of everyone in a house because they were home was justified.


After binge watching everything Islamic on the TV, it occurred to me that the real difference between Islam and every other religion is that Islam isn't self policing. All those billions of peaceful Muslim are not rising up against the jihad culture and the horrific acts of those few million who are true believers now responsible for crimes against humanity and the nations who took them in.


That is the problem.


Why is it our problem that we can't distinguish between the good and bad and want to protect ourselves?
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Old 02-16-2016, 12:10 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistermobile View Post
Charley Mansion is still inside doing some serious time because he believed, among other things, that the
Beatles' White Album revealed to him that massacre of everyone in a house because they were home was justified.


After binge watching everything Islamic on the TV, it occurred to me that the real difference between Islam and every other religion is that Islam isn't self policing. All those billions of peaceful Muslim are not rising up against the jihad culture and the horrific acts of those few million who are true believers now responsible for crimes against humanity and the nations who took them in.


That is the problem.


Why is it our problem that we can't distinguish between the good and bad and want to protect ourselves?
Would you expect Catholics to police Jehovah Witnesse or either of them to police Mormans. How about who would police the Lutherans and the Episcopalians and the Fundamentalist Evangelist.

There is much more individualism in Islam than in Christianity. We are not members of a group, we are individuals that perform Islam.

ISIS is ISIS it can only correct itself from within ISIS

Boko Haram is Boko Haram it can only correct itself from within Boko Haram


ETC


Now with that said We do condemn and do fight against the evil doers that commit atrocities in the name of Islam

I have posted many links in many posts in many threads on this forum here are a few again

Muslims Against Terrorism (MAT)

Paris Attacks: Muslims Speak Out Against Terrorism

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...nce-extremism/

Muslims all over the world condemn terrorism, express solidarity with French - The Express Tribune

Why Don't Moderate Muslims Denounce Terrorism?

How 70,000 Muslim Clerics Are Standing Up To Terrorism

As Muslims we have much more anger and hatred and fear of the terrorists than non-Muslims have. They are out to destroy Islam and will kill Muslims faster then they kill non-Muslims. They are the greatest danger us Muslims face in today's world. We do fight them, we do try to change them. but the world still lumps all people who call them self Muslim as being members of a single group.

Why Muslims Hate Terrorism More - The Daily Beast


We as Muslims do not join an organization called Islam, there is no such organizations we are 1.7 billion individuals that perform the action of Islam to the best of our individual abilities. No big chief head Muslim has us herded together into an organization as members. We are individuals with no ordained clergy, no membership criteria and no living human leader. Each Muslim speaks only for himself even if he/she claims to be the big chief all powerful leader. We Muslims are not supposed to be following any earthly leader nor placing anyone between us and Allaah(swt). If we claim membership in a group, we probably are not performing Islam
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Old 02-16-2016, 01:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
A root cause is always a prior cause never the one after.


In your case you were trying to say the latter event is the root cause, i.e.


The root cause was, "idols are our gods and we will kill you [latter] if you say they are not gods [prior]".
The root cause is therefore the prior 'you [Muhammad] say they are not gods" which is mocking and insulting the Meccans.


If there are no further critical prior events, then yes the mocking of cartoons of Muhammad is the root cause of the Paris killings.
But there are prior causes to the mocking of cartoons of Muhammad, i.e.


1. SOME [not all] evil Muslims have been committing terrible evils and violence around the world and that is linked to Islam and Muhammad.
2. Because the above is in the daily news it caught the attention of the cartoonists who drew a cartoon of Muhammad with a bomb in his turban and other satirical images.
3. If SOME Muslims [associated with Muhammad and Islam has not committed terrible evils and violence it would not have attracted the cartoonists' attention. In contrast no one is interested in drawing cartoons of Buddha for the same reasons re evils and violence.
4. Therefore the root cause of the drawing of killings in Paris is due to point 1 above and not due to the drawings of cartoons.


5. Besides the many derogatory cartoons of Jesus has been drawn, but there are no violent reactions from the Christians like that from the Muslims.


6. Therefore the prior root cause is from SOME Muslims, Islam and Muhammad.


What do you by telling the truth here?
Charlie Hebdo is telling the truth via their cartoon, it is not mocking in a sense but it is only because SOME Muslims are sensitive and the rampage and killings are sanctioned by Allah in the Quran, i.e. because the cartoons are deemed as threat to Islam by SOME Muslims.
Charlie Hebdo was not telling the truth but mocking. Muhammad never had a bomb in his turban. The cartoon was showing a bomb in his turban. That's an outright lie by Charlie Hebdo but you don't ses it.
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Old 02-16-2016, 01:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
OK, I went a bit too ahead on this one. Note I was referring to the monotheistic God of Muhammad and the Meccans do not believe in a monotheistic God. [I remember reading, there is a verse where the Meccan denounced the monotheistic God -cannot find it a present]


I don't believe the Meccans wanted Muhammad to worship their idols as gods. As a Qureshi himself, Muhammad would have worshipped the idols as God for 30++ years till he have had that experience of altered states of consciousness. Then he decided to change his mind to monotheism.
Meccans were, due to their "living in peace with Jews and christians", were well aware of belief in One God, Allah (Arabic word for God).
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Old 02-16-2016, 02:12 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
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All this talk of 'winning' - it seems pretty apparent that their faith hasn't done non-secularized Muslims much good. The richest (excepting those nations whose income derives principally from oil) most developed countries in the world are non-Islamic or largely secular. Even so-called IS are dependent on others (the infidels) creations e.g. computers, cell phones, social media, Japanese pick-up trucks etc.
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Old 02-16-2016, 02:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Regardless of any waiting period [if any] it was Muhammad who started to preaching his message and insulted the Meccans and their practices of worshipping Allah. Even his relatives [e.g. Abu Lahab] were offended by his preaching and his good uncle even rejected his message.


Suppose your son which you know all about him for 40 years suddenly at the age of 40 and declare his is a messenger of God, do you think you would believe him? That was what happened to Muhammad's uncle Abu Talib who never accepted Muhammad's divine relations and message.
What you do not mention here is that the other relatives and friends did believe him. Abu Bakr believed him. Hamza (uncle) believed him. His uncle Abu Talib's son believed him. Even his wife's Christian uncle had believed him. As for Abu Lahab, one of the chiefs in Mecca, he was a nasty man who rotted after his death and even his sons did not want to go near his body due to its stink. He had boasted about his wealth (as Meccan chief) and sons and had seen Muhammad as threat to his powerful status.

As for his uncle Abu Talib, he had protected Muhammad all those years before his death. He knew that Muhammad is on a true mission but his status in the eyes of Meccans prevented him from saying Shahada. On his death bed, he had confessed to Muhammad that if he says Shahada now his people will see him as coward. Without his protection, the Meccans would have killed Muhammad years before he went to Madina. Abu Talib did not stop his son Ali to accept Islam. Abu Talib was not against Muhammad, why others?
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Old 02-16-2016, 07:00 PM
 
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Default Back to the original thread, the answer is

No Muslim following Islam is responsible for any other Islam follower's action so...
"Let the Nazis be Nazis."


Or in other words,


"We ain't helping."
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Old 02-16-2016, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by Mistermobile View Post
No Muslim following Islam is responsible for any other Islam follower's action so...
"Let the Nazis be Nazis."


Or in other words,


"We ain't helping."
We do confront the terrorists. but as we are not an organization we do so as individuals or small local groups.

We are very diverse We are all different nationalities, speak different languages and have to abide by the laws in the Nations we live in.

It probably would be easier if we were organized and had some sort of central leadership, but we don't as Islam is a personal action We do not even know who is a Muslim, we only know who openly claims to be Muslim.

We have no excommunication as we do not have an organization to kick anyone out of. A person becomes a Muslim simply by acknowledging they are Muslim. Even if I disagree with how a person performs Islam I can not say that person is no Muslim. It might be that what I consider to be Islam is not Islam. There are many Muslims that probably believe I am not Muslim. but we can never know who is a Muslim as performing Islam to the best of one's ability is known only to the individual and Allaah(swt)
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Old 02-16-2016, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Charlie Hebdo was not telling the truth but mocking. Muhammad never had a bomb in his turban. The cartoon was showing a bomb in his turban. That's an outright lie by Charlie Hebdo but you don't ses it.
It is not lying but a satire.


By the way, do you understand what is a satire?
Suggest you read and understand what is a 'satire.'
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Old 02-16-2016, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Meccans were, due to their "living in peace with Jews and christians", were well aware of belief in One God, Allah (Arabic word for God).
That is true, the Meccans were well aware the Jews and Christian were monotheistic but they were not proselytized by Jews and Christians to the extent of being disturbed, threatened and agitated by them. This is why the Meccans were living and trading peacefully with the Jews and Christians for so long.


It was Muhammad who was told by Allah that Islam is superior and rule over all other religions [48:28] that spur Muhammad to agitate, mock and threaten the Meccans to the extent they have to react and retaliate.
Note I have done a lot of research on those who suddenly become religious out of no where. These religious and cult leaders often started off very zealously and has a very aggressive drive to get their way because they believe they are great as chosen by God. Note the cases of Reverend Jim Jones, Koresh, and the likes.
Such aggressive behaviors also happen to newly converts who are often aggressive in proselytizing and pushing their views to others in order to convert them and causing antagonism and contempt.


From the fact that the Jews and Christians were living peacefully with the Meccans before Muhammad started preaching his Islam and created antagonisms with them infer that there is something wrong with either Muhammad or the antagonistic nature of Islam, or both.
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