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Old 02-19-2016, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 2,642,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
You are forgetting here that regardless of whether I am good human or not, as a Muslim, my action must comply with the commands in the Qur'an.
There is no command in the Qur'an for me to "cast terror upon non-Muslims". Therefore, I do not cast teror upon the non-Muslims. As you are discussing Islam here, what's stopping you from understanding this Islamic point?
This is a good point to demonstrate what is meant by a good Muslim.


Here is the objective point.
A Muslim by definition must comply with the Quran.
What is needed to be complied is in the 6,236 verses in the Quran.
Therefore if a Muslim complied with 100% of the 6,236 verses of the Quran, s/he is a 100% Muslim.
In practice this may not be possible and not all 6,236 relate to the obligation and duty of a Muslim.
Thus the truer Muslim is the more who comply as many as possible of the expectations of the 6,236 verses.


There are verses in the Quran that expect Muslims to "cast terror upon non-Muslims" if Islam is under threat and its progress is being hindered. Islam is under threat around the world where foreigners are political present in Islamic land, Western Education is being promoted to Muslims, Christians are proselytizing to Muslims, etc.
Since there exist threats to Islam and you are not "casting terror upon non-Muslims" you are not complying with 1 or more of the 6,236 verses of the Quran.
Meanwhile, the jihadists and mujahideens are "casting terror upon non-Muslims" as stipulated within the 6,236 verses in the Quran.
Based on the above the jihadists are obeying and complying to one extra verse than you as a Muslim.
Therefore the jihadists is objectively a better Muslim than you.


The above refer to one verse and one element as an example.


In reality the jihadist may comply with 5,000 verses of the Quran, while you may comply with only 4,000 verses of the Quran.
Thus the jihadist is a 80.2% Muslim while you may be a 64.14% Muslim.
Therefore on this basis the jihadist is a truer Muslim than you by 16%.
However the plus point for you is, you are a better human being for ignoring some of the elements in the verses of the Quran.


Note the above number of verses are merely an approximation. However I am aware the jihadists comply with more verses in the Quran than the moderate Muslims who are indifferent to many other verses which they are not inclined with, e.g. casting terror, view the Jews as apes and hate them and others.


To get an accurate picture of the above, I will be doing more precise research and analysis.


Do you deny my objective view above?
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Old 02-20-2016, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Birmingham
3,640 posts, read 39,493 times
Reputation: 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
This is a good point to demonstrate what is meant by a good Muslim.


Here is the objective point.
A Muslim by definition must comply with the Quran.
What is needed to be complied is in the 6,236 verses in the Quran.
Therefore if a Muslim complied with 100% of the 6,236 verses of the Quran, s/he is a 100% Muslim.
In practice this may not be possible and not all 6,236 relate to the obligation and duty of a Muslim.
Thus the truer Muslim is the more who comply as many as possible of the expectations of the 6,236 verses.


There are verses in the Quran that expect Muslims to "cast terror upon non-Muslims" if Islam is under threat and its progress is being hindered. Islam is under threat around the world where foreigners are political present in Islamic land, Western Education is being promoted to Muslims, Christians are proselytizing to Muslims, etc.
Since there exist threats to Islam and you are not "casting terror upon non-Muslims" you are not complying with 1 or more of the 6,236 verses of the Quran.
Meanwhile, the jihadists and mujahideens are "casting terror upon non-Muslims" as stipulated within the 6,236 verses in the Quran.
Based on the above the jihadists are obeying and complying to one extra verse than you as a Muslim.
Therefore the jihadists is objectively a better Muslim than you.


The above refer to one verse and one element as an example.


In reality the jihadist may comply with 5,000 verses of the Quran, while you may comply with only 4,000 verses of the Quran.
Thus the jihadist is a 80.2% Muslim while you may be a 64.14% Muslim.
Therefore on this basis the jihadist is a truer Muslim than you by 16%.
However the plus point for you is, you are a better human being for ignoring some of the elements in the verses of the Quran.


Note the above number of verses are merely an approximation. However I am aware the jihadists comply with more verses in the Quran than the moderate Muslims who are indifferent to many other verses which they are not inclined with, e.g. casting terror, view the Jews as apes and hate them and others.


To get an accurate picture of the above, I will be doing more precise research and analysis.


Do you deny my objective view above?
The above is not an objective view; it is a view in ignorance of Islam and Muslim.

Here is why:

1. There is no verse in the Qur'an that commands me to "cast terror upon non-Muslims". If there is one for me then you must quote it for my knowledge so that I comply with it and cast terror upon you non-Muslim.

2. Just as a non-Muslim can be Muslim, a Muslim can be a non-Muslim. "Muslim" is not a permanrnt label that stays with someone forever. If someone, Muslim in your sight, does not obey any command but calls himself "Muslim", you would accept him as a "Muslim" in ignorance. Such a person is not a Muslim.

3. One is Muslim only during one's action that complies with the commands from God. If someone does not comply with the commands from God in his action, he is not a Muslim during that particular action. But he is always human being regardless of his actions.

4. One is a Muslim or not a Muslim during an action. Unlike good human being and bad human being, there is no such definition as "bad Muslim" or "good Muslim". These are non-Muslim created definitions about a subject that they don't even understand the meanings of.

5. It is during the action of someone that he is a Muslim or not a Muslim. I will not be judged by whether I call myself Muslim or not but by my actions.

6. I am not 50% Muslim, 10% Muslim, or 100% Muslim. Only my actions can be 10% Islamic or 90% Islamic. That does not mean that I am either 10% Muslim or 90% Muslim.

Yes, to have an objective view about the Qur'an, Muslim and Islam, you need to understand each subject first or else any view would be in ignorance.
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Old 02-20-2016, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 17,066,949 times
Reputation: 7539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
This is a good point to demonstrate what is meant by a good Muslim.


Here is the objective point.
A Muslim by definition must comply with the Quran.
What is needed to be complied is in the 6,236 verses in the Quran.
Therefore if a Muslim complied with 100% of the 6,236 verses of the Quran, s/he is a 100% Muslim.
In practice this may not be possible and not all 6,236 relate to the obligation and duty of a Muslim.
Thus the truer Muslim is the more who comply as many as possible of the expectations of the 6,236 verses.


There are verses in the Quran that expect Muslims to "cast terror upon non-Muslims" if Islam is under threat and its progress is being hindered. Islam is under threat around the world where foreigners are political present in Islamic land, Western Education is being promoted to Muslims, Christians are proselytizing to Muslims, etc.
Since there exist threats to Islam and you are not "casting terror upon non-Muslims" you are not complying with 1 or more of the 6,236 verses of the Quran.
Meanwhile, the jihadists and mujahideens are "casting terror upon non-Muslims" as stipulated within the 6,236 verses in the Quran.
Based on the above the jihadists are obeying and complying to one extra verse than you as a Muslim.
Therefore the jihadists is objectively a better Muslim than you.


The above refer to one verse and one element as an example.


In reality the jihadist may comply with 5,000 verses of the Quran, while you may comply with only 4,000 verses of the Quran.
Thus the jihadist is a 80.2% Muslim while you may be a 64.14% Muslim.
Therefore on this basis the jihadist is a truer Muslim than you by 16%.
However the plus point for you is, you are a better human being for ignoring some of the elements in the verses of the Quran.


Note the above number of verses are merely an approximation. However I am aware the jihadists comply with more verses in the Quran than the moderate Muslims who are indifferent to many other verses which they are not inclined with, e.g. casting terror, view the Jews as apes and hate them and others.


To get an accurate picture of the above, I will be doing more precise research and analysis.


Do you deny my objective view above?
This is probably what is causing the confusion as it is not what Many Muslims believe.


Quote:
Here is the objective point.
A Muslim by definition must comply with the Quran.
What is needed to be complied is in the 6,236 verses in the Quran.
Therefore if a Muslim complied with 100% of the 6,236 verses of the Quran, s/he is a 100% Muslim.
In practice this may not be possible and not all 6,236 relate to the obligation and duty of a Muslim.
Thus the truer Muslim is the more who comply as many as possible of the expectations of the 6,236 verses.
A Muslim by definition must comply with the Quran.

False: A Muslim must not disobey the Qur'an this significantly different from comply with. The Qur'an contains many things as an illustrative lesson and are not things we required to do.
What is needed to be complied is in the 6,236 verses in the Quran.

False--As a person can be 100% practicing Muslim without ever having seen a Qur'an.


Therefore if a Muslim complied with 100% of the 6,236 verses of the Quran, s/he is a 100% Muslim.

False--They could be a hypocrite and doing so with the wrong intention. It is possible for an enemy of Islam to comply with all 6.23 ayyats and never be a Muslim

In practice this may not be possible and not all 6,236 relate to the obligation and duty of a Muslim.


True

Thus the truer Muslim is the more who comply as many as possible of the expectations of the 6,236 verses.


False: There is no such thing as a true or false Muslim. A person is either a Muslim or is not. There are no levels, percentages, degrees etc. All Muslims are equally Muslim.
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Old 02-21-2016, 12:39 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 2,642,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
The above is not an objective view; it is a view in ignorance of Islam and Muslim.

Here is why:

1. There is no verse in the Qur'an that commands me to "cast terror upon non-Muslims". If there is one for me then you must quote it for my knowledge so that I comply with it and cast terror upon you non-Muslim.
If you have read the Quran at least 50 times you will get the overall context of casting terror by Allah onto non-Muslims as an effective strategy that Muslims should do when the have to defend Islam and fight the non-Muslims in the event of threats from non-Muslims.
Here is a verse that advise Muslims to cast terror on non-Muslims; in [] = mine.
8:57. If thou comest on them [infidels] in the war, deal with them [infidels] so as to strike fear [terror] in those [infidels] who are behind them [infidels], that haply they [infidels] may remember.
Note I have already give instances where Islam is deemed to be under threat, i.e. western education, existence of Jews, Christians proselytizing, infidels [politically] in Islamic land, criticism of Islam, hindrance of the progress of Islam, etc.


Whether to comply it is your choice. If you are evil prone, then you are likely to comply as with the pool of the 20% of evil prone Muslims. The other 80% of good Muslims do not comply because they are good human beings who abide by good universal human moral values.



Quote:
2. Just as a non-Muslim can be Muslim, a Muslim can be a non-Muslim. "Muslim" is not a permanrnt label that stays with someone forever. If someone, Muslim in your sight, does not obey any command but calls himself "Muslim", you would accept him as a "Muslim" in ignorance. Such a person is not a Muslim.
The Quran do not stop any Muslim from getting out of Islam [apostate] or cancel the covenant with Allah. However, a non-Muslim will be destined to Hell.
However if a Muslim commit an unpardonable sin, then he is automatically [in the eyes of Allah] no more a Muslim and thus destined to the worst of Hell on Judgment Day.
Muslims who commit non-unpardonable sins are still Muslims but those who commit pardonable sins will be punished accordingly to the degree of their sin.

Quote:
3. One is Muslim only during one's action that complies with the commands from God. If someone does not comply with the commands from God in his action, he is not a Muslim during that particular action. But he is always human being regardless of his actions.
I disagree.
Unless it is a unpardonable sin, a Muslim is still a Muslim if the sin [non-compliance] is a pardonable one or s/he repent.
I thought you claim you understand the Quran very well.

Quote:
4. One is a Muslim or not a Muslim during an action. Unlike good human being and bad human being, there is no such definition as "bad Muslim" or "good Muslim". These are non-Muslim created definitions about a subject that they don't even understand the meanings of.
'Good' and 'bad' are merely relative term and can be understood is the context is well defined.
If one drink alcohol and do not fast, one can be labeled a 'bad' Muslim and generally people will understand what 'bad' Muslims meant in this context.
I have do not prefer the term 'bad' Muslim but I normally assess whether a Muslim is a truer Muslim in compliance with the terms of the Quran.

Quote:
5. It is during the action of someone that he is a Muslim or not a Muslim. I will not be judged by whether I call myself Muslim or not but by my actions.
The final judgment is for Allah to decide depending on the overall actions of a Muslim in his life on Earth.

Quote:
6. I am not 50% Muslim, 10% Muslim, or 100% Muslim. Only my actions can be 10% Islamic or 90% Islamic. That does not mean that I am either 10% Muslim or 90% Muslim.

Yes, to have an objective view about the Qur'an, Muslim and Islam, you need to understand each subject first or else any view would be in ignorance.
Why not?


Each action can be assessed as whether 10% or 90% Islamic.
If you pray one time a day that is 20% Islamic and 5 times would be 100% Islamic with reference to that day itself. One can do the assessment for one week, month, years or whole life.


But if we take into account all the necessary expectations from the 6,236 verses then one can assessed [roughly] objectively whether one is a 10%, 50% or 90% Muslims based on one's performance.


Have you ever done those survey with a Questionaire that has a list of questions [50,100] and ratings [e.g. 1-low to 10-high].
For example this test of one Emotional Intelligence;
Test Your Emotional Intelligence, Free EQ Quiz, EI Test
After one has ticked all the rating of each question, the total is added up the result can be
10%, 50% or 90% of Emotional Intelligence competence.


This is what I meant doing for one's Muslim-ness.
To calculate whether one is 10%, 50% or 90% Muslim, do the following;
1. Put all the 6,236 verses in a column,
2. For each verse provide ratings of compliance, e.g. 1=Low, 10=High for one to assess one's compliance with the verse.
3. The assessment can be done by oneself or another who know you.
4. Total all the points and compute the %.
5. The final % will give the % of one's Muslim_ness, i.e. 10%, 50% or 90% Muslim.


Obviously the above result will never be 100% accurate but will definitely give one an idea what degree of one is a Muslim in accordance to the Quran.
When one has done it many times the result will be more accurately and this will facilitate a Muslim to improve his Muslim_ness % in accordance to the words of Allah in the Quran.


Note in this case no one is making up anything as everything is from the Quran and ensuring the translations are reasonable.


The above is at least a reasonable objective basis rather than merely doing it willy-nilly.


Regardless, it is not up to others to made judgment but the final judgment will be up to Allah on Judgment Day.


What do you think of this exercise?
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Birmingham
3,640 posts, read 39,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
If you have read the Quran at least 50 times you will get the overall context of casting terror by Allah onto non-Muslims as an effective strategy that Muslims should do when the have to defend Islam and fight the non-Muslims in the event of threats from non-Muslims.
Here is a verse that advise Muslims to cast terror on non-Muslims; in [] = mine.
[indent]8:57. If thou comest on them [infidels] in the war, deal with them [infidels] so as to strike fear [terror] in those [infidels] who are behind them [infidels], that haply they [infidels] may remember.
Here is literal translation of the verse you quoted:

8:57
So if you gain dominance over them in war, disperse by them who are behind them so that they may take heed.

Where does it say that Muslims should "cast terror upon non-Muslims"?

If you keep reading the Qur'an further 50 times, you would still not find any verse that commands Muslims to "cast terror upon non-Muslims". Your accusation of Qur'an is through ignorance about the commands for Muslim in the Qur'an.
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Birmingham
3,640 posts, read 39,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Each action can be assessed as whether 10% or 90% Islamic.
If you pray one time a day that is 20% Islamic and 5 times would be 100% Islamic with reference to that day itself. One can do the assessment for one week, month, years or whole life.


But if we take into account all the necessary expectations from the 6,236 verses then one can assessed [roughly] objectively whether one is a 10%, 50% or 90% Muslims based on one's performance.
You still haven't learnt from my explanation!

There is no such thing as 10% or even 99% Muslim. One is either Muslim or not a Muslim during any action. At other times, he is a human being (neither 10% human being nor 90% human being).

There is no action that is 10% Islamic and 90% unislamic. It is either Islamic or not Islamic. An Islamic action is a good action and evil action is unislamic.

Whether I pray one time or 5 times,, I am Muslim during each prayer. If I pray 4 times, I am Muslim during each prayer. Each prayer is a good action.

I am now quite sure that you do not understand either Muslim or the Qur'an.
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Old 02-21-2016, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 17,066,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
You still haven't learnt from my explanation!

There is no such thing as 10% or even 99% Muslim. One is either Muslim or not a Muslim during any action. At other times, he is a human being (neither 10% human being nor 90% human being).

There is no action that is 10% Islamic and 90% unislamic. It is either Islamic or not Islamic. An Islamic action is a good action and evil action is unislamic.

Whether I pray one time or 5 times,, I am Muslim during each prayer. If I pray 4 times, I am Muslim during each prayer. Each prayer is a good action.

I am now quite sure that you do not understand either Muslim or the Qur'an.

Out of fairness I have doubts if a person can understand what is meant by a Muslim, unless they them self perform the action of Islam.

Many people seem to believe the word Islam pertains to a particular group of people.

One can not "join" or be a member of Islam, but anyone can perform an action of Islam.

I like to walk. I am a walker. but being a walker does not equate to belonging to a group or organization, or ideology. I am a walker because I walk. I am a Muslim because I perform Islam. Not because I identify with a specific group of people. This is a concept non-Muslims often do not understand.
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Old 02-22-2016, 12:08 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 2,642,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
You still haven't learnt from my explanation!

There is no such thing as 10% or even 99% Muslim. One is either Muslim or not a Muslim during any action. At other times, he is a human being (neither 10% human being nor 90% human being).

There is no action that is 10% Islamic and 90% unislamic. It is either Islamic or not Islamic. An Islamic action is a good action and evil action is unislamic.

Whether I pray one time or 5 times,, I am Muslim during each prayer. If I pray 4 times, I am Muslim during each prayer. Each prayer is a good action.

I am now quite sure that you do not understand either Muslim or the Qur'an.
In this case, your views indicate low intelligence.
Not only that, you are also insulting Allah's view because in the Quran there is an implication of % in terms of degrees of being a Muslim in the eyes of Allah.


Here are some verses to support my point: in []=mine
3:163. There are degrees (of grace and reprobation) with Allah, and Allah is Seer of what ye do. [rewards and punishment in accordingly to degrees]


4:96. Degrees of rank from Him [Allah], and forgiveness and mercy. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.


46:19. And for ALL [jinn & mankind] there will be ranks from what they do, that He may pay [recompense, repay, compensate] them [jinn & mankind] for their deeds! and they will not be wronged [fairly judged].


6:165. He [Allah] it is who hath placed you [Muslims] as viceroys of the earth and hath exalted some of you in rank above others, that He may try you [Muslims] by (the test of) that which He hath given you. Lo! Thy Lord is swift in prosecution, and lo! He is Forgiving, Merciful.


6:132. For all there will be ranks [degrees] from what they did Thy Lord is not unaware of what they do.


8:4. Those [Muslims] are they who are in truth believers. For them [Muslims] are grades [degrees] (of honour) with their Lord, and pardon, and a bountiful provision.


57:10. And what aileth you [infidels] that ye spend not in the way of Allah, when unto Allah belongeth the inheritance of the heavens and the earth? Those [First Class Muslims -see 56:10]who spent and fought before the victory are [higher &] not upon a level (with the rest of you). Such [Muslims] are greater in rank than those [2nd class Muslims, on the Right Hand] who spent and fought afterwards. Unto each [Muslim] hath Allah promised good. And Allah is Informed of what ye do.


58:11. O ye [Muslims] who believe! When it is said, Make room! in assemblies, then make room; Allah will make way for you [Muslims] (hereafter). And when it is said, Come up higher! go up higher; Allah will exalt those [Muslims] who believe among you, and those [Muslims] who have knowledge, to high ranks. Allah is informed of what ye do.
From the above one will note Muslims are graded in ranks, degrees.
Ranks and degrees can easily be converted to %.
All the deeds of each Muslims are recorded by Allah's bookkeeper [angels] and Allah [all powerful] can easily convert them into % if Allah wish so.
If not we can do its ourselves on a rough basis.
For example a student who scored an average of 90% for the year is a 90% student for that year in comparison to other students who has other different scores.


It is a sign of my intelligence that I am able to understand the various elements of the Quran and interpret them in different valid elements.
In fact this will be an objective basis for Muslims to improve their Muslim %, say if they are a 10% Muslim objectively then they should try to improve to 50% and further.


Students are generally graded even on subjective essay type subjects into objective %. Point to note is this is not THE TRUTH but merely an objective guide.
We can do the same for religious believers, e.g. Muslims, Christians, Buddhist, etc.


Quote:
Whether I pray one time or 5 times,, I am Muslim during each prayer. If I pray 4 times, I am Muslim during each prayer. Each prayer is a good action.
Point is, one is a Muslim when one has entered into a covenant [agreement/contract] with Allah.
Whatever a Muslim do, s/he is forever a Muslim until s/he terminate the agreement or is rejected by Allah when s/he commit an unpardonable sin.
Therefore whether one pray 1000 or 50,000 times in their life, they are still a Muslim, BUT as with the above verses their grades or ranking [%] will be lower in this respect and their rewards will be lesser than those with higher achievements [%].
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Old 02-22-2016, 01:44 AM
 
Location: Birmingham
3,640 posts, read 39,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
In this case, your views indicate low intelligence.
Not only that, you are also insulting Allah's view because in the Quran there is an implication of % in terms of degrees of being a Muslim in the eyes of Allah.


Here are some verses to support my point: in []=mine
3:163. There are degrees (of grace and reprobation) with Allah, and Allah is Seer of what ye do. [rewards and punishment in accordingly to degrees]


4:96. Degrees of rank from Him [Allah], and forgiveness and mercy. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.


46:19. And for ALL [jinn & mankind] there will be ranks from what they do, that He may pay [recompense, repay, compensate] them [jinn & mankind] for their deeds! and they will not be wronged [fairly judged].


6:165. He [Allah] it is who hath placed you [Muslims] as viceroys of the earth and hath exalted some of you in rank above others, that He may try you [Muslims] by (the test of) that which He hath given you. Lo! Thy Lord is swift in prosecution, and lo! He is Forgiving, Merciful.


6:132. For all there will be ranks [degrees] from what they did Thy Lord is not unaware of what they do.


8:4. Those [Muslims] are they who are in truth believers. For them [Muslims] are grades [degrees] (of honour) with their Lord, and pardon, and a bountiful provision.


57:10. And what aileth you [infidels] that ye spend not in the way of Allah, when unto Allah belongeth the inheritance of the heavens and the earth? Those [First Class Muslims -see 56:10]who spent and fought before the victory are [higher &] not upon a level (with the rest of you). Such [Muslims] are greater in rank than those [2nd class Muslims, on the Right Hand] who spent and fought afterwards. Unto each [Muslim] hath Allah promised good. And Allah is Informed of what ye do.


58:11. O ye [Muslims] who believe! When it is said, Make room! in assemblies, then make room; Allah will make way for you [Muslims] (hereafter). And when it is said, Come up higher! go up higher; Allah will exalt those [Muslims] who believe among you, and those [Muslims] who have knowledge, to high ranks. Allah is informed of what ye do.
From the above one will note Muslims are graded in ranks, degrees.
Ranks and degrees can easily be converted to %.
All the deeds of each Muslims are recorded by Allah's bookkeeper [angels] and Allah [all powerful] can easily convert them into % if Allah wish so.
If not we can do its ourselves on a rough basis.
For example a student who scored an average of 90% for the year is a 90% student for that year in comparison to other students who has other different scores.


It is a sign of my intelligence that I am able to understand the various elements of the Quran and interpret them in different valid elements.
In fact this will be an objective basis for Muslims to improve their Muslim %, say if they are a 10% Muslim objectively then they should try to improve to 50% and further.
The way you have interpreted these verses, has further revealed to me that you are unable to understand the Qur'an. Here is why:

1. None of these verses say that a Muslim is 10% Muslim or 90% Muslim. Even you are writing within the verses "Muslim" rather than 10% Muslim. Here in this world, one is either a Muslim in any given action or not a Muslim in any given action. You need to understand this urgently.

2. None of these verses are addressed to "Muslims". All of these verses are addressed to either "believers" (momineen) or people in general. With your closed mind towards Islam and Muslims, you are imagining that these are addressed to Muslims.

3. The ranks mentioned in the verses are ranks or stations in the hereafter. These are not here but with Allah and be given to people (even you) on the judgment day. That's when one would be exalted in degree/rank/station. There are stations both in paradise and in hell. If you are given the lowest station in hell, it does not mean you were 100% kafir but your actions were 100% evil. Person is not graded but his actions both in terms of quality and quantity, and his achievement/post/station is graded. These degrees, ranks, stations are for all humam beings. You are not 10 % human beings.

4. The verse 58:11 you quoted above begins with, "O ye who believe!". You added "Muslims" in the verse. If we read it, "O ye Muslims who believe", it will become obvious to any Muslim that the verse implies that not all Muslims believe. We know that all Muslims "believe". Either your intelligence stops you understanding these verses or your mind is closed to the Qur'an so you do not understand the Qur'an.

Last edited by Khalif; 02-22-2016 at 02:08 AM..
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Old 02-22-2016, 02:44 AM
 
Location: Birmingham
3,640 posts, read 39,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Point is, one is a Muslim when one has entered into a covenant [agreement/contract] with Allah.
One is Muslim when obeying Allah. One is Muslim when serving Allah. One obeys/serves Allah. Obeying/serving Allah are "actions" AFTER entering into the covenant. One believes first and then acts.

Quote:
Therefore whether one pray 1000 or 50,000 times in their life, they are still a Muslim, BUT as with the above verses their grades or ranking [%] will be lower in this respect and their rewards will be lesser than those with higher achievements [%].
Now read carefully what you have written here. All Muslims are Muslims whether they pray 1time, 5 times, 1000 times or 50,000 times rather than 1%, 4%, 1000% or 50,000% Muslim.
You have just agreed with me inadvertently that grade/rank/station/reward will be higher or lower in the hereafter after the Judgment for your actions in this life. That will be due to your achievement. The same will apply to ALL human beings. They too will be given grade/rank/station/reward in the hereafter for their disbelieving and actions here in this life. It does not mean that they are 10% human beings or 1% human beings.

The more you post here on Islam board the more you expose yourself. I don't believe that you have low intelligence but low understanding of Muslims and Islam.
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