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Old 02-07-2016, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
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I'm well aware that not all Muslims commit the evil, vile acts of radical Islamists. There are certainly a number of peaceful people that call themselves Muslims. However, I have to wonder if ISIS and the various radical Islamist groups aren't far closer to being followers of Muhammad. By all human, moral, decent standards, Muhammad was a vile, vicious person. All the acts committed by those groups were first committed and sanctioned by Muhammad. Such as:

(1) Muhammad had sex with a (prepubescent) nine-year-old girl.
(2) Muhammad married more women than his own revelations allowed (he received a "special" revelation giving him the privilege of violating Surah 4:3).
(3) Muhammad married the wife of his own adopted son.
(4) Muhammad had sex with his slave girls.
(5) Muhammad attempted suicide.
(6) Muhammad delivered a revelation to his followers promoting polytheism.
(7) Muhammad supported idolatrous pagan practices such as kissing a black rock and bowing down to the Ka’ba.
(8) Muhammad ordered his followers to assassinate people who criticized him or his religion.
(9) Muhammad beheaded hundreds of Jews for trying to defend themselves once they realized he was eliminating them.
(10) Muhammad started a war with Mecca when he had a chance to live in peace in Medina.
(11) Muhammad committed numerous acts of terrorism.
(12) Muhammad enslaved thousands of people.
(13) Muhammad allowed his followers to rape their female captives (though he took the most beautiful captive back to his own tent).
(14) Muhammad told his followers it’s okay to beat their wives into submission.
(15) Muhammad hit his wife Aisha.
(16) Muhammad broke an oath to his wives (after receiving a "revelation" giving him permission to break his oaths).
(17) Muhammad wanted to divorce one of his wives once she had become old and unattractive.
(18) Muhammad showed favoritism among his wives.
(19) Muhammad told his followers that women are stupid and that their testimony is unreliable.
(20) Muhammad tortured people for money.
(21) Muhammad supported his religion by robbing people.
(22) Muhammad preached a message of violence, oppression, and cruelty.
(23) Muhammad taught his followers to believe in a god who loves only them, and no one else.
(24) Muhammad ordered his followers not to be friends with non-Muslims.
(25) Muhammad commanded his followers to fight and subjugate non-Muslims.

So, I have to wonder...given that Muhammad is supposed to be the "perfect man" in Islam, and the person for Muslims to emulate, how do you make the claim that these groups are not "followers of Islam" and their acts do not represent the acts of Muslims. It seems to me that they are the only ones emulating Muhammad.

In fact, it is hard to make a case that Muhammad did NOT create Islam in order to enhance his personal power, attract followers that were predispositioned to the same vile acts, and created an entire religion to justify his actions.
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Old 02-07-2016, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Actually none of those 25 things never took place or not in the manner depicted.. It is only the anti-Islamic people that spread those misconceptions.Sadly many non-Muslims have no understanding of Islam, The Qur'an or the Sunnah.

The list is a bit lengthy to address each one individually, but if you select 1 (One) of your choice, I will present the reasons we do not believe it occurred, or if it did occur, why it is not as the Islam haters portray.
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Old 02-07-2016, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
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How about number 1 then, should be an easy one. Did not Muhammad marry a 6 year old child and consummate the marriage when she was ~9?

Quote:
According to Sunni scriptural Hadith sources, Aisha was six or seven years old when she was married to Muhammad and nine when the marriage was consummated.[10][11][12][13][14][23] For example, Sahih al-Bukhari states:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha
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Old 02-07-2016, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
How about number 1 then, should be an easy one. Did not Muhammad marry a 6 year old child and consummate the marriage when she was ~9?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha
Thar seems to be a favorite accusation for non-Muslims.


first we know very little about Aisha excpt what she is alleged to have said. Every Ahadith or nearly all relating to her can be traced to Hisham ibn Urwa. the Ahadith are Sahih (Of the highest authenticity) which means it has been verified Hisham ibn Urwa did know Aisha and he did right down his recollections of what he remembered about her.

Now in regards to Hisham ibn Urwa while he was a truthful, honest man He was only 12 years old when Aisha died. He was over 70 years old when he wrote down his recollections.

Aisha's Age

All Ahadith regarding Aish are found only in Sahih Bukhari

Even among Muslims there is considerable debate and disagreement about her age. while we are not certain of Aisha's age we are certain she was physdically mature at the time the marriage was consummated. We are also certain she was mentaly and emotionally mature and capable of living on her own. almost immediatly she was accepted as being an Islamic Scholar and referred to as being the "Mother of All Muslims"

Quote:
To be fair, the lack of consensus among Muslims on this topic is extremely understandable. We have a strong body of hadith that indicate the age of betrothal was 6 and consummation was 9 (Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:58:234, 5:58:236, 7:62:64, 7:62:65, 7:62:88, Sahih Muslim, 8:3309, 8:3310, 8:3311, 41:4915, Sunan Abu Dawood, 41:4917).

Alternatively, the Sirah (Prophetic biography) puts these ages in doubt because they don't fit with multiple events in her biography (see: The truth about Muhammad and Aisha). For example, prior to her betrothal to Muhammad, Aisha was engaged to Jubayr ibn Mut'im, who broke the engagement upon discovering that her father Abu Bakr had accepted Islam in 610 CE, but the hadith put Ayesha's birth at 612 CE! Both can't be right. Some historians try to blend the stories together (see: Ayesha's Engagement ) but these attempts create even more timeline incongruities, such as Jubayr's father Mut‘im ibn ‘Adi discussing his son's engagement with Abu Bakr in 619 CE after Khadija died. But this again doesn't make sense because Khadija died after the expiration of the Meccan boycott of the Hashemites, which is the reason Mutim gave for annulling the engagement.

Events later in Ayesha's life (see: Battle of the Camel, where she joined a rebellion against Ali) made it very important for Sunnis to establish her primacy among the Prophet's wives, which her supporters claimed by her status as the only virgin to marry the Prophet. They underlined this point by showing her extremely young age. Shias (Ali's supporters in the Battle of the Camel) argued that Umm Salama was the Prophet's favorite wife (See: Shia view of Aisha).

Ayesha's Status

My real take-away from Muhammad's marriage to Ayesha was her status as an abandoned woman. The Prophet entered numerous marriages because the woman was abandoned or widowed (see: Sawda bint Zamʿa, Hafsa bint Umar, Ramla bint Abi Sufyan). Given that Ayesha was abandoned by her fiancee after her father's conversion to Islam, the Prophet's marriage was never criticized by any of his contemporaries. Once again, the Prophet was stepping in to care for an abandoned woman. If there was something unseemly going on, we would have seen criticism similar to the accusations of Ayesha's adultery. The only references to her age are positive ones, put in the context of her virginity.

https://www.quora.com/How-do-Muslims...-underage-girl
It also has to be understood what an Islamic Marriage is. Is is the joint agreement of the Nikkah Contract. which at a minimum must conain within it the agreed upon House the woman will receive, the monthly allowence she will receive for personal and household expenses. etc. While there is no specified chronological age for marriage it is specified that all parties must be physically, mentally and finacially capable of performing all requirements of marriage.

More relating to the confusion of Aisha's age and why we have not verification of what it was.

Quote:
Most of the Hadith narrations mentioning her age was nine are reported through Hisham ibn Urwa while living in Iraq, where Hisham ibn Urwa is reported to have relocated after living in Madinah for seventy-one years. It is reported in one of the most well known books on the life and reliability of the narrators of the traditions ascribed to the Muhammad reports that Yaqub ibn Shaibah said, “narratives reported by Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq”. It further states that Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of Hisham, which were reported through people of Iraq. Another book on the narrators of the traditions of the Muhammad reports that when he was old, Hisham’s memory suffered quite badly.

We find evidence in both Hadith books and history books that indicates Aisha must have been older than nine when she got married:

According to a hadith in Bukhari and Muslim, Aisha is said to have joined Muhammad on the raid that culminated in the Battle of Badr, in 624 CE. However, because no one below the age of fifteen was allowed to accompany raiding parties, Aisha should have been at least fifteen in 624 CE and thus at least thirteen when she was married following the Hijra in 622 CE.

Ibn Hisham’s version of Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rashul Allah, the earliest surviving biography of Muhammad, records Aisha as having converted to Islam before Umar ibn al-Khattab, during the first few years of Islam around 610 CE. In order to accept Islam she must have been walking and talking, hence at least three years of age, which would make her at least fifteen in 622 CE.

Tabari reports that Abu Bakr wished to spare Aisha the discomforts of a journey to Ethiopia soon after 615 CE, and tried to bring forward her marriage to Mut`am’s son. Mut`am refused because Abu Bakr had converted to Islam, but if Aisha was already of marriageable age in 615 CE, she must have been older than nine in 622 CE.

Tabari also reports that Abu Bakr’s four children were all born during the Jahiliyyah (Pre-Islam Period), which has ended in 610 CE, making Aisha at least twelve in 622 CE.

According to Ibn Hajar, Fatima was five years older than Aisha. Fatima is reported to have been born when Muhammad was thirty-five years old, meaning Aisha was born when he was forty years old, and thus twelve when Muhammad married at fifty-two.



According to the generally accepted tradition, Aisha was born about eight years before Hijrah (Migration to Medina). However, according to another narrative in Bukhari (Kitaab al-Tafseer) Aisha is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur’an , was revealed, “I was a young girl”. The 54th Surah of the Qur’an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Aisha had not only been born before the revelation of the referred Surah, but was actually a young girl, not even only an infant at that time. So if this age is assumed to be 7 to 14 years, then her age at the time of marriage would be 14 to 21.

According to almost all the historians, Asma the elder sister of Aisha, was ten years older than Aisha. It is reported in Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb as well as in Ibn Kathir's Al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah that Asma died in the 73rd year after migration of Muhammad when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma was 100 years old in the 73rd year after Migration to Medina, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of migration. If Asma was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Aisha should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, if Aisha got married in year 1 AH or 2 AH (after Migration to Medina), she must have been between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.

According to many Ahadith in Bukhari, it is believed Aisha participated in the both of Badr and Uhud battles. Furthermore, in Bukhari's Kitabu’l-Maghazi, Ibn `Umar states: "The Prophet did not permit me to participate in Uhud battle, as at that time, I was 14 years old. But on the day of Khandaq battle, when I was 15 years old, the Prophet permitted my participation". So, since it was not allowed for Muslims younger than 15 years old to participate in Uhud battle, Aisha, who participated in Uhud, must have been at least 15 years old in those battles; thus her age was at least 13 to 14 at the time of her marriage.

According to ibn Sa’d's Tabaqat and Ansab al-Ashraf books, opinions are in disagreement concerning her marriage with Muhammad. The marriage seems to have taken place either two of five years after the Migration (Usd al-Ghaba, 5:501).

Aisha's Age
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Old 02-07-2016, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
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Quote:
To be fair, the lack of consensus among Muslims on this topic is extremely understandable. We have a strong body of hadith that indicate the age of betrothal was 6 and consummation was 9 (Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:58:234, 5:58:236, 7:62:64, 7:62:65, 7:62:88, Sahih Muslim, 8:3309, 8:3310, 8:3311, 41:4915, Sunan Abu Dawood, 41:4917).
So, in spite of multiple statements in the Hadiths that place her at 6 when married and 9 when the marriage was consummated...modern marketing is attempting to spin that into something different so Muhammad is not labeled a child rapist? Got it.


The marketing is countered here: http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles...ayesha_age.htm
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Old 02-07-2016, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
So, in spite of multiple statements in the Hadiths that place her at 6 when married and 9 when the marriage was consummated...modern marketing is attempting to spin that into something different so Muhammad is not labeled a child rapist? Got it.

There are only 4 Ahadith in which Aisha's age is mentioned and 3 of those appear to be rewriting of one. all 4 of which have an Isnad (Chain of Narration) that traces them back to Hisham ibn Urwa

while the 4 Ahadith have been put into multiple categories of various compilations there are only 4 unique Ahadith relating the Age of Aisha.
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Old 02-07-2016, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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A little more relating to the age of Ahadith

Quote:
Determination of the true age of Aisha

It appears that Maulana Muhammad Ali was the first Islamic scholar directly to challenge the notion that Aisha was aged six and nine, respectively, at the time of her nikah and consummation of marriage. This he did in, at least, the following writings: his English booklet Prophet of Islam, his larger English book Muhammad, the Prophet, and in the footnotes in his voluminous Urdu translation and commentary of Sahih Bukhari entitled Fadl-ul-Bari, these three writings being published in the 1920s and 1930s. In the booklet Prophet of Islam, which was later incorporated in 1948 as the first chapter of his book Living Thoughts of the Prophet Muhammad, he writes in a lengthy footnote as follows:

“A great misconception prevails as to the age at which Aisha was taken in marriage by the Prophet. Ibn Sa‘d has stated in the Tabaqat that when Abu Bakr [father of Aisha] was approached on behalf of the Holy Prophet, he replied that the girl had already been betrothed to Jubair, and that he would have to settle the matter first with him. This shows that Aisha must have been approaching majority at the time. Again, the Isaba, speaking of the Prophet’s daughter Fatima, says that she was born five years before the Call and was about five years older than Aisha. This shows that Aisha must have been about ten years at the time of her betrothal to the Prophet, and not six years as she is generally supposed to be. This is further borne out by the fact that Aisha herself is reported to have stated that when the chapter [of the Holy Quran] entitled The Moon, the fifty-fourth chapter, was revealed, she was a girl playing about and remembered certain verses then revealed. Now the fifty-fourth chapter was undoubtedly revealed before the sixth year of the Call. All these considerations point to but one conclusion, viz., that Aisha could not have been less than ten years of age at the time of her nikah, which was virtually only a betrothal. And there is one report in the Tabaqat that Aisha was nine years of age at the time of nikah. Again it is a fact admitted on all hands that the nikah of Aisha took place in the tenth year of the Call in the month of Shawwal, while there is also preponderance of evidence as to the consummation of her marriage taking place in the second year of Hijra in the same month, which shows that full five years had elapsed between the nikah and the consummation. Hence there is not the least doubt that Aisha was at least nine or ten years of age at the time of betrothal, and fourteen or fifteen years at the time of marriage.” [4] (Bolding is mine.)

To facilitate understanding dates of these events, please note that it was in the tenth year of the Call, i.e. the tenth year after the Holy Prophet Muhammad received his calling from God to his mission of prophethood, that his wife Khadija passed away, and the approach was made to Abu Bakr for the hand of his daughter Aisha. The hijra or emigration of the Holy Prophet to Madina took place three years later, and Aisha came to the household of the Holy Prophet in the second year after hijra. So if Aisha was born in the year of the Call, she would be ten years old at the time of the nikah and fifteen years old at the time of the consummation of the marriage.
Later research

Research subsequent to the time of Maulana Muhammad Ali has shown that she was older than this. An excellent short work presenting such evidence is the Urdu pamphlet Rukhsati kai waqt Sayyida Aisha Siddiqa ki umar (‘The age of Lady Aisha at the time of the start of her married life’) by Abu Tahir Irfani.[4a] Points 1 to 3 below have been brought to light in this pamphlet.

1. The famous classical historian of Islam, Ibn Jarir Tabari, wrote in his ‘History’:

“In the time before Islam, Abu Bakr married two women. The first was Fatila daughter of Abdul Uzza, from whom Abdullah and Asma were born. Then he married Umm Ruman, from whom Abdur Rahman and Aisha were born. These four were born before Islam.” [5]

Being born before Islam means being born before the Call.

2. The compiler of the famous Hadith collection Mishkat al-Masabih, Imam Wali-ud-Din Muhammad ibn Abdullah Al-Khatib, who died 700 years ago, has also written brief biographical notes on the narrators of Hadith reports. He writes under Asma, the older daughter of Abu Bakr:

“She was the sister of Aisha Siddiqa, wife of the Holy Prophet, and was ten years older than her. … In 73 A.H. … Asma died at the age of one hundred years.” [6]

(Go here to see an image of the full entry in Urdu.)

This would make Asma 28 years of age in 1 A.H., the year of the Hijra, thus making Aisha 18 years old in 1 A.H. So Aisha would be 19 years old at the time of the consummation of her marriage, and 14 or 15 years old at the time of her nikah. It would place her year of birth at four or five years before the Call.
Age of Aisha (ra) at time of marriage
While there is no proof one way or the other regarding the age of Aisha there is considerable evidence that at the age of her marriage she was already considered to be an eloquent Islamic scholar/

Quote:
Qualities of Aisha and her role in Islam

In any discussion on the age of Aisha (ra: may Allah be pleased with her) at the time of her marriage with the Holy Prophet Muhammad (may peace and the blessings of Allah be upon him), it is of the greatest relevance to note the pivotal role she played as a teacher, exponent and interpreter of the religion of Islam. Aisha was an exceptionally intelligent and astute woman, a young prodigy, and this was the main reason why she was got married to the Holy Prophet, as is clearly proved by events after the Holy Prophet’s life. She entered his household, shortly after his emigration to Madina, just at the time when the teachings of Islam in all fields of life for the Muslim community were starting to be revealed to the Holy Prophet and demonstrated by him by his example and practice. An intellectually gifted person was required who would have daily contact with the Holy Prophet at the closest and most personal level, so as to absorb the teachings that he was giving on all aspects of life by his words and actions. Such a person would need to possess the following qualities:

an excellent, precise memory to retain a vast amount of detail accurately,
the understanding to grasp the significance and the principles of the teachings,
powers of reasoning, criticism and deduction to resolve problems on the basis of those teachings,
the skills to convey knowledge to a wide range of audience,
and, finally, have the prospect of living for a considerable period of time after the death of the Holy Prophet in order to spread his message to distant generations.

That Aisha possessed all these qualities and carried out this mission is an absolutely positive and undeniable, historical fact. After the Holy Prophet’s death, she acted as a teacher and interpreter of Islam, providing guidance to even the greatest of the male Companions of the Holy Prophet Muhammad. They made a special point of going to her to gain knowledge and seek her opinion. A vast number of sayings and actions of the Holy Prophet are reported from her in books of Hadith. She not only quoted his sayings and reported her observations of events, but interpreted them to provide solutions to questions. Whenever necessary, she corrected the views of the greatest of the Companions of the Holy Prophet. She made rulings and judgments on which Islamic law is based.

The following are two examples of what the Holy Prophet’s male Companions said about her:

“Abu Musa said: Whenever there was any hadith that was difficult [to understand] for us, the Companions of the Messenger of Allah, and we asked Aisha we always found that she had knowledge about that hadith.”

“Musa ibn Talha said: I never saw anyone more eloquent than Aisha.” [1]

In the famous compilation of the lives of saints in Islam, Tadhkirat-ul-Auliya, the author Farid-ud-Din Attar, who lived eight centuries ago, introduces the life of the early female saint Rabia of Basra as follows:

“If anyone says, ‘Why have you included Rabia in the rank of men?’, my answer is that the Prophet himself said, ‘God does not regard your outward forms’. … Moreover, if it is proper to derive two-thirds of our religion from Aisha, surely it is permissible to take religious instruction from a handmaid of Aisha.” [2]

It is thus recognised, from the earliest times in Islam, that some two-thirds of Islamic Sharia is based on reports and interpretations that have come from Aisha.

In view of these exceptional qualities of Aisha and the towering role played by her in the transmission of the teachings of Islam, it is simply preposterous and outrageous to suggest that she was the victim of some form of child and marital abuse. We ask in particular the Christian and Jewish critics of Islam, who are reviling the Holy Prophet Muhammad on the basis of his marriage with Aisha, whether they can point out any example of a woman in their religions who played a role like that of Aisha in learning the religion from its founder and becoming the teacher and instructor of all his followers, including men, after his death.
Age of Aisha (ra) at time of marriage
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Old 02-07-2016, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
So, in spite of multiple statements in the Hadiths that place her at 6 when married and 9 when the marriage was consummated...modern marketing is attempting to spin that into something different so Muhammad is not labeled a child rapist? Got it.


The marketing is countered here: Ayesha the child wife of Muhammad
Ali Zina is a self avowed enemy of Islam. Evaluate his opinions with that in mined. He seems to have a personal agenda against all religions and at the moment is vehement against Islam

But addressing His comment:

Here lies the problem.

Quote:
Answer:
Even if we assume this narrative to be accurate, we have no reason to give it more weight than those that are so detailed about Aisha ’s age, describing her, playing with her dolls and with her little friends who hid when Muhammad entered the room, her memories of playing on the swing when her mother called her and washed her face and took her to Muhammad, her ignorance of what was going on when Muhammad took off his pants and her “surprise” when got into action. These events are more likely to be remembered by child than when a particular Surah was revealed. It is more likely that a person confuse one Surah with the other than confuse all those details of her own life. This site continues:

According to a number of narratives, Aisha (ra) accompanied the Muslims in the battle of Badr and Uhud. Furthermore, it is also reported in books of hadith and history that no one under the age of 15 years was allowed to take part in the battle of Uhud. All the boys below 15 years of age were sent back. Aisha 's (ra) participation in the battle of Badr and Uhud clearly indicate that she was not nine or ten years old at that time. After all, women used to accompany men to the battle fields to help them, not to be a burden on them.

Answer:
This is a weak excuse. When the Battle of Badr and Ohud occurred Aisha was 10 to 11 years old. She did not go to be a warier, like the boys. She went to keep Muhammad warm during the nights. Boys who were less than 15 were sent back, but this did not apply to her.

According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Aisha (ra) was ten years older than Aisha (ra). It is reported in Taqri'bu'l-tehzi'b as well as Al-bidayah wa'l-nihayah that Asma (ra) died in 73 hijrah when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma (ra) was 100 years old in 73 hijrah she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Aisha (ra) should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Aisha (ra), if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH, was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.

Age of Aisha (ra) at time of marriage

There is no external evidence that Aisha even existed except for what is in the Ahadith and even there the Sahih collection bent the rules of reliability to include her comments as related by Hisham ibn Urwa
Side Note: The Ahadith relating to Aisha in compilations outside Bukhari were copied directly from Bukhari. While there are about 1800 Ahadith attributed to Aisha, because of multiple listing in different categories and compilations there are probably only about 50 or less unique Ahadith attributed to her
and her age mentioned only in 4 at the most and of dubious accuracy
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Old 02-07-2016, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
I'm well aware that not all Muslims commit the evil, vile acts of radical Islamists. There are certainly a number of peaceful people that call themselves Muslims.
However, I have to wonder if ISIS and the various radical Islamist groups aren't far closer to being followers of Muhammad. By all human, moral, decent standards, Muhammad was a vile, vicious person. All the acts committed by those groups were first committed and sanctioned by Muhammad. Such as:
Personally, I believe a Muslim is an adherent of Islam.
Islam is solely represented by Allah's words which is only in the Quran and no where else.

However those Muslims who claimed the Sunnah [Ahadiths] are a part of Islam will have to be responsible for all the good as well for the evil elements in the Ahadiths.
In the Quran, Muhammad is claimed to be an exemplar to all Muslims.
Thus those who adopted the Sunnah will spontaneously try to emulate what Muhammad is reported to have done over his life.


I agree with your listing of the 25 acts of Muhammad and they are reported in the various Hadiths and some are implied in the Quran.
Since Muhammad is an exemplar sanctioned by Allah, it is very likely the Muslims of ISIS and various radical Islamists would have emulated what Muhammad did.
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Old 02-07-2016, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Ali Zina is a self avowed enemy of Islam. Evaluate his opinions with that in mined. He seems to have a personal agenda against all religions and at the moment is vehement against Islam.
I don't see Ali Sina as a self avowed enemy of Islam.
Ali Sina is a serious critique of Islam but his approach is rather aggressive and that is because as an ex-Muslim I believed [from reading his views] he felt he was "mentally raped" and abused by Islam. So he felt he needed to inform non-Muslims of the evil elements of Islam.

It is not Ali Sina's fault in the first place, he did not asked to be born a Muslim then subsequently discovering [got wiser] the terrible evil [beside good] elements in Islam and of Muhammad.
I have read Ali Sina's critiques of Islam and all his views are based on the Quran, Ahadiths and Sira.


The point is many Muslims consider the Quran, Ahadiths and Sira to be the essential components of Islam. Therefore if Ali Sina quoted from the above three components to support his point and not from his own words, then what Ali Sina did is rational and ethical.


When Ali Sina debated with Quran-Only-Submitters he ignored the Ahadiths and Sira and argued based on the Quran only.


Ali Sina became an atheist after he left Islam but now is a Christian.
Wonder where you read Ali Sina is against all religions, at no time I have not read him condemning other religions.
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