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Old 03-06-2016, 03:27 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
My own observations have been that non-Muslims are much more likely to commit acts of violence.
Of course you drop a very important context. The violence is done in the name of Islam. So, we have to compare apples to apples. Violence done in the name of Islam compared to violence done in the name of some other religion.

I've challenged you several times to do this and you always refuse!

Let me try again.

Here is a list of TERRORIST ATTACK MURDERS done in the name of Islam over a 1 week period....2/22 thru 2/28. And now you provide a list of TERRORIST ATTACK MURDERS done in the name of any other religion over that same period.


2016.02.28 Iraq Abu Ghraib 24 (killed) 22(injured) Two dozen Iraqis are shot or blown apart during a Fedayeen suicide attack by ISIS.
2016.02.28 Iraq Baghdad 78 112 Seventy-eight people at a packed market in a Shiite area are exterminated by two Sunni suicide bombers.
2016.02.28 Egypt al-Arish 1 0 A man is shot to death in front of his home by the Islamic State.
2016.02.28 Somalia Baidoa 30 60 At least thirty civilians and first responders are slaughtered by a twin suicide attack near a restaurant.
2016.02.28 Afghanistan Qads 1 0 A tribal elder is tortured to death by religious extremists.
2016.02.27 Afghanistan Bolan 2 0 The Taliban wipe out two local police with a roadside bomb.
2016.02.27 Egypt Rafah 2 2 Two local security personnel are cut down by an Islamist bomb.
2016.02.27 Iraq Abu Ghraib 2 9 Jihadis bomb an outdoor market, killing two patrons.
2016.02.27 Iraq Baghdad 5 25 A series of Mujahideen blasts leave five dead.
2016.02.27 Syria Ajila 2 4 A suicide car bomber takes out two village guards.
2016.02.27 Afghanistan Asadabad 12 40 A dozen people lose their lives to a suicide blast along a city street, including three brothers.
2016.02.27 Afghanistan Nangarhar 1 5 Taliban bombers take out a civilian.
2016.02.27 Syria Salamiya 2 3 An ISIS suicide bomber takes at least two others with him.
2016.02.27 Afghanistan Kabul 15 31 A suicide bomber targets a bus, killing fifteen passengers and bystanders.
2016.02.27 Syria Teeba 4 4 Four villagers lose their lives to an Islamic State suicide bomber.
2016.02.27 Syria Deir Ezzor 3 12 Three children are disassembled by Sunni mortars.
2016.02.26 Somalia Mogadishu 14 30 Holy Warriors attack a 'Youth League' hotel with bombs and gunfire, laying out fourteen innocents.
2016.02.26 Syria al-Zahra 1 0 A child is killed by Jabhat al-Nusra.
2016.02.26 Egypt Giza 1 1 Fundamentalists open fire on two traffic cops, killing one.
2016.02.26 Germany Hanover 0 1 A 'radicalized' teen girl stabs a female police officer.
2016.02.25 Somalia Mogadishu 4 8 Four civilians lose their lives to an al-Shabaab attack.
2016.02.25 Iraq Baghdad 15 50 Two Sunni suicide bombers detonate at a Shiite mosque, slaughtering at least fifteen worshippers.
2016.02.24 Libya Sabratha 12 0 A dozen local security agents are captured and beheaded by ISIS.
2016.02.24 Mali Timbuktu 3 2 Islamists attack a checkpoint, killing three defenders.
2016.02.24 Afghanistan Kabul 7 0 The Taliban kill seven Afghans over a 24-hour period.
2016.02.24 Syria Dayr al-Zawr 2 14 Sunni rockets take out two civilians.
2016.02.24 Syria Aleppo 10 5 Seven children are among ten civilians disassembled by two Sunni mortar rounds.
2016.02.24 Iraq Mosul 1 0 An imam is beheaded by Religion of Peace rivals.
2016.02.24 Nigeria Agatu 140 0 Radical Islamic mercenaries sweep through a series of Christian villages and slaughter over one-hundred and forty, including pregnant women and children.
2016.02.23 Iraq Fallujah 12 0 A dozen Iraqis are caught trying to flee the caliphate, marched to the city center and executed.
2016.02.23 Syria Hamidiya 2 0 Two teenage girls are stoned for adultery.
2016.02.23 Iraq Hawija 4 0 Four young people are executed by ISIS after members call for 'repentance'.
2016.02.23 Syria Deir Ezzor 2 14 Two civilians are pulled apart by a Sunni mortar blast.
2016.02.23 Iraq Yusufiya 1 9 Terrorists bomb a vegetable market, killing one person.
2016.02.23 Syria Raqqa 1 0 Radicals execute a man for 'apostasy'.
2016.02.22 Philippines Tugaya 1 0 Muslim terrorists murder a local soldier guarding a village
2016.02.22 Iraq Ramadi 8 0 Eight people are killed in their own homes by ISIS booby-traps.
2016.02.22 India Pompore 3 0 Three more people are killed by Lashkar-e-Toiba.
2016.02.22 Iraq Ramadi 6 10 An ISIS assault leaves six town defenders dead.
2016.02.22 Afghanistan Jabba 2 2 Religious fundamentalists murder two local cops.
2016.02.22 Afghanistan Parwan 13 19 A suicide bomber detonates near a clinic, taking thirteen other souls with him.
2016.02.22 Afghanistan Baghlan 1 2 A Taliban rocket takes out an Afghan citizen.
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Old 03-06-2016, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Of course you drop a very important context. The violence is done in the name of Islam. So, we have to compare apples to apples. Violence done in the name of Islam compared to violence done in the name of some other religion.

I've challenged you several times to do this and you always refuse!

Let me try again.

Here is a list of TERRORIST ATTACK MURDERS done in the name of Islam over a 1 week period....2/22 thru 2/28. And now you provide a list of TERRORIST ATTACK MURDERS done in the name of any other religion over that same period.


2016.02.28 Iraq Abu Ghraib 24 (killed) 22(injured) Two dozen Iraqis are shot or blown apart during a Fedayeen suicide attack by ISIS.
2016.02.28 Iraq Baghdad 78 112 Seventy-eight people at a packed market in a Shiite area are exterminated by two Sunni suicide bombers.
2016.02.28 Egypt al-Arish 1 0 A man is shot to death in front of his home by the Islamic State.
2016.02.28 Somalia Baidoa 30 60 At least thirty civilians and first responders are slaughtered by a twin suicide attack near a restaurant.
2016.02.28 Afghanistan Qads 1 0 A tribal elder is tortured to death by religious extremists.
2016.02.27 Afghanistan Bolan 2 0 The Taliban wipe out two local police with a roadside bomb.
2016.02.27 Egypt Rafah 2 2 Two local security personnel are cut down by an Islamist bomb.
2016.02.27 Iraq Abu Ghraib 2 9 Jihadis bomb an outdoor market, killing two patrons.
2016.02.27 Iraq Baghdad 5 25 A series of Mujahideen blasts leave five dead.
2016.02.27 Syria Ajila 2 4 A suicide car bomber takes out two village guards.
2016.02.27 Afghanistan Asadabad 12 40 A dozen people lose their lives to a suicide blast along a city street, including three brothers.
2016.02.27 Afghanistan Nangarhar 1 5 Taliban bombers take out a civilian.
2016.02.27 Syria Salamiya 2 3 An ISIS suicide bomber takes at least two others with him.
2016.02.27 Afghanistan Kabul 15 31 A suicide bomber targets a bus, killing fifteen passengers and bystanders.
2016.02.27 Syria Teeba 4 4 Four villagers lose their lives to an Islamic State suicide bomber.
2016.02.27 Syria Deir Ezzor 3 12 Three children are disassembled by Sunni mortars.
2016.02.26 Somalia Mogadishu 14 30 Holy Warriors attack a 'Youth League' hotel with bombs and gunfire, laying out fourteen innocents.
2016.02.26 Syria al-Zahra 1 0 A child is killed by Jabhat al-Nusra.
2016.02.26 Egypt Giza 1 1 Fundamentalists open fire on two traffic cops, killing one.
2016.02.26 Germany Hanover 0 1 A 'radicalized' teen girl stabs a female police officer.
2016.02.25 Somalia Mogadishu 4 8 Four civilians lose their lives to an al-Shabaab attack.
2016.02.25 Iraq Baghdad 15 50 Two Sunni suicide bombers detonate at a Shiite mosque, slaughtering at least fifteen worshippers.
2016.02.24 Libya Sabratha 12 0 A dozen local security agents are captured and beheaded by ISIS.
2016.02.24 Mali Timbuktu 3 2 Islamists attack a checkpoint, killing three defenders.
2016.02.24 Afghanistan Kabul 7 0 The Taliban kill seven Afghans over a 24-hour period.
2016.02.24 Syria Dayr al-Zawr 2 14 Sunni rockets take out two civilians.
2016.02.24 Syria Aleppo 10 5 Seven children are among ten civilians disassembled by two Sunni mortar rounds.
2016.02.24 Iraq Mosul 1 0 An imam is beheaded by Religion of Peace rivals.
2016.02.24 Nigeria Agatu 140 0 Radical Islamic mercenaries sweep through a series of Christian villages and slaughter over one-hundred and forty, including pregnant women and children.
2016.02.23 Iraq Fallujah 12 0 A dozen Iraqis are caught trying to flee the caliphate, marched to the city center and executed.
2016.02.23 Syria Hamidiya 2 0 Two teenage girls are stoned for adultery.
2016.02.23 Iraq Hawija 4 0 Four young people are executed by ISIS after members call for 'repentance'.
2016.02.23 Syria Deir Ezzor 2 14 Two civilians are pulled apart by a Sunni mortar blast.
2016.02.23 Iraq Yusufiya 1 9 Terrorists bomb a vegetable market, killing one person.
2016.02.23 Syria Raqqa 1 0 Radicals execute a man for 'apostasy'.
2016.02.22 Philippines Tugaya 1 0 Muslim terrorists murder a local soldier guarding a village
2016.02.22 Iraq Ramadi 8 0 Eight people are killed in their own homes by ISIS booby-traps.
2016.02.22 India Pompore 3 0 Three more people are killed by Lashkar-e-Toiba.
2016.02.22 Iraq Ramadi 6 10 An ISIS assault leaves six town defenders dead.
2016.02.22 Afghanistan Jabba 2 2 Religious fundamentalists murder two local cops.
2016.02.22 Afghanistan Parwan 13 19 A suicide bomber detonates near a clinic, taking thirteen other souls with him.
2016.02.22 Afghanistan Baghlan 1 2 A Taliban rocket takes out an Afghan citizen.
In comparing violence by Muslims and violence by non-Muslims you will find there is about 10 times more violence by non-Muslims.

90% of the violence on earth is done by non-Muslims.

Non-Muslims Carried Out More than 90% of All Terrorist Attacks in America | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

Are All Terrorists Muslims? It

7-month-old's murder in Mexico causes outrage - CNN.com

Mass shootings are happening at a faster pace in 2016 than last year, data show.

In Just the US alone

So far in 2016, 49 mass shootings in the United States have left 73 people dead and 178 wounded, according to data collected from a Reddit thread that chronicles gun violence through crowdsourcing news reports. The subreddit’s criteria counts a shooting if a minimum of four people are wounded by gunfire. The combined total is up by one-third compared to the same time last year.
Mass shootings are already far ahead of last year's pace | PBS NewsHour

The current number of violent crimes in the US since Jan 1, 2016
About 4,184 results for US crime, That is four thousand one hundred eighty four violent crimes by non-Muslims in the US alone Just since January
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/us-crime
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Last edited by Woodrow LI; 03-06-2016 at 04:09 PM..
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Old 03-06-2016, 04:42 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,908 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
In comparing violence by Muslims and violence by non-Muslims you will find there is about 10 times more violence by non-Muslims.

90% of the violence on earth is done by non-Muslims.

Non-Muslims Carried Out More than 90% of All Terrorist Attacks in America | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

Are All Terrorists Muslims? It

7-month-old's murder in Mexico causes outrage - CNN.com

Mass shootings are happening at a faster pace in 2016 than last year, data show.

In Just the US alone

So far in 2016, 49 mass shootings in the United States have left 73 people dead and 178 wounded, according to data collected from a Reddit thread that chronicles gun violence through crowdsourcing news reports. The subreddit’s criteria counts a shooting if a minimum of four people are wounded by gunfire. The combined total is up by one-third compared to the same time last year.
Mass shootings are already far ahead of last year's pace | PBS NewsHour

The current number of violent crimes in the US since Jan 1, 2016
About 4,184 results for US crime, That is four thousand one hundred eighty four violent crimes by non-Muslims in the US alone Just since January
US crime | US news | The Guardian
Of course you drop a very important context. The violence is done in the name of Islam. So, we have to compare apples to apples. Violence done in the name of Islam compared to violence done in the name of some other religion.

I've challenged you several times to do this and you always refuse!

Let me try again.

Here is a list of TERRORIST ATTACK MURDERS done in the name of Islam over a 1 week period....2/22 thru 2/28. And now you provide a list of TERRORIST ATTACK MURDERS done in the name of any other religion over that same period.
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Old 03-06-2016, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Of course you drop a very important context. The violence is done in the name of Islam. So, we have to compare apples to apples. Violence done in the name of Islam compared to violence done in the name of some other religion.

I've challenged you several times to do this and you always refuse!

Let me try again.

Here is a list of TERRORIST ATTACK MURDERS done in the name of Islam over a 1 week period....2/22 thru 2/28. And now you provide a list of TERRORIST ATTACK MURDERS done in the name of any other religion over that same period.
Kind of stacking the cards as you only consider violence by Muslims as being terrorism

You are calling every terrorist attack by a Muslim as being done in the name of religion. I am making the comparission that Crimes by non-Muslims far excced crimes by Muslims, therefore non-religion is more violent that religion if you want me to word it that way.

No matter how you word it, Muslims are less violent than non-Muslims no matter what reason you give for violence by Muslims.

A non-Muslim neighbor is 9 times more likely to murder you than a Muslim neighbor if you go by rate of occurrence.

even if one assumes all crimes by Muslims are religion related, you are still more likely to be killed by a non-Muslim no matter where you live in the world.

Over all a Muslim is most likely to be killed by a Muslim and a non-Muslim is more likely to be killed by a non-Muslim. But on a percentage basis Muslims are less likely to commit a violent crime.
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Old 03-06-2016, 07:16 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,908 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Kind of stacking the cards as you only consider violence by Muslims as being terrorism

You are calling every terrorist attack by a Muslim as being done in the name of religion. I am making the comparission that Crimes by non-Muslims far excced crimes by Muslims, therefore non-religion is more violent that religion if you want me to word it that way.

No matter how you word it, Muslims are less violent than non-Muslims no matter what reason you give for violence by Muslims.

A non-Muslim neighbor is 9 times more likely to murder you than a Muslim neighbor if you go by rate of occurrence.

even if one assumes all crimes by Muslims are religion related, you are still more likely to be killed by a non-Muslim no matter where you live in the world.

Over all a Muslim is most likely to be killed by a Muslim and a non-Muslim is more likely to be killed by a non-Muslim. But on a percentage basis Muslims are less likely to commit a violent crime.
I'm not stacking the cards at all. I am comparing apples to apples. Religious terrorism to religious terrorism, not religious terrorism to all crime.

I am not listing all Muslim crime, just deadly Muslim terrorism done in the name of Islam. I am not asking you to list all crime done by, say, Christians. Just deadly Christian terrorism done in the name of Christianity.

That is the topic here. Religious terrorism, not all crime.

I await your list.
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Old 03-06-2016, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
I'm not stacking the cards at all. I am comparing apples to apples. Religious terrorism to religious terrorism, not religious terrorism to all crime.

I am not listing all Muslim crime, just deadly Muslim terrorism done in the name of Islam. I am not asking you to list all crime done by, say, Christians. Just deadly Christian terrorism done in the name of Christianity.

That is the topic here. Religious terrorism, not all crime.

I await your list.
You will find that Western Media will never address any crime by non-Muslims as "Religious Terrorism" not even what is going on in India or what has occurred in Central Africa. But you can be almost 100% certain that every terrorism act by a Muslim will be labelled Religious terrorism in Western Media..

Go to the Hindu sites to find what Christians are doing in India
Such as:

Christian Terrorism In India

https://christianwatchindia.wordpres...ory/terrorism/

Christian Terrorism in North-East India - The NLFT

India is losing Manipur due to Christian terrorism | Sulekha Creative

In Africa it is even worse

Yes, There Are Christian Terrorists - The Daily Beast

Christian Militia Could Wipe Out Central African Republic's Muslim Population, Says Human Rights Group

AFRICA'S CHRISTIAN-TERRORIST GROUP - THE LORD'S RESISTANCE ARMY | Examiner.com

Africa: Playground for Christian Extremists | Atheist Revolution

https://thetaleofbittertruth.wordpre...ians-in-kenya/

Seven Accused African Witches Burned to Death : Discovery News

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...0071139AAhwxAU

Christian militias in Central African Republic 'burnt witches at stake', says UN report - Telegraph

Children abused, killed as witches in Nigeria - CNN.com


WATCH: Christian Extremists Mass Behead Muslims in Africa | Heavy.com

Even closer to Home

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Old 03-07-2016, 12:13 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,848 times
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Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
That is the topic here. Religious terrorism, not all crime.
The topic here, Dilemma about the Qur'an and Bible, has been hijacked to Islamic terrorism only in hate against Islam and Muslims.
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Old 03-07-2016, 12:32 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You will find that Western Media will never address any crime by non-Muslims as "Religious Terrorism" not even what is going on in India or what has occurred in Central Africa. But you can be almost 100% certain that every terrorism act by a Muslim will be labelled Religious terrorism in Western Media.
They began with calling it "Islamic terrorism". When the penny dropped that such terorrism is not "Islamic:", they no longer called it "Islamic". When Bush declared his crusade in Iraq, it was never labeled religius crusade despite him clearly claiming in the media, about his religiovus fervour, that he was doing it because he believed God wanted him to do it.
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Old 03-07-2016, 12:45 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Explain your view by quoting the verses of the Qur'an that made you have such view, and I will then explain why your view about the Qur'an in this case is nothing but ignorance about he Qur'an.
We have gone through this before.


In the whole context of the Quran, Muhammad was very angry with the Jews and Christians for changing the 'words' in the original Quran-of-old sent before Muhammad's Quran.
Muhammad was very angry because some of the changes affected the prophesy of Muhammad as the chosen messenger.
This is the main reason for verse 1:6-7.


There are many verses that reflect this point and here are examples that point to that direction;
2:59 But those who did wrong changed the word which had been told them for another saying, and We sent down upon the evil-doers wrath from heaven for their evil-doing.


2:75 Have ye any hope that they will be true to you when a party of them used to listen to the word of Allah, then used to change it, after they had understood it, knowingly?


4:46. Some [ignorant zealous Jews] of those who are Jews change words from their context and say: "We hear and disobey; hear thou as one who heareth not" and "Listen to us!" [Ra'ina] distorting [twisting] with their tongues and slandering religion [alddeeni].


5:13 And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts. They change words from their context and forget a part of that whereof they were admonished. Thou wilt not cease to discover treachery from all save a few of them. But bear with them and pardon them. Lo! Allah loveth the kindly.



Note there are many others verses that support the above point.


Obviously there are some verses in the Torah and Gospel which has the same concepts as in the present Quran.
But because the present Torah and Gospel were not the same as the original words of Allah, i.e. the Quran-of-Old, they cannot be taken as the WHOLE original 'words of Allah' because they are corrupted.


One good example is there is no 'love your enemies' or 'give the other cheek' in the present Quran of Muhammad.


Therefore for the Muslims, the only valid and authorized Quran from Allah is that of the one recited by Muhammad in the period 610-632AD and nothing else.
The present Torah and Gospel CANNOT be accepted as authentic Quran-of-old from Allah.
Therefore the present Jews and Christians are not "Muslims".


Get it?
Suggest you read the Quran again with the above point in mind.
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Old 03-07-2016, 05:39 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
We have gone through this before.

In the whole context of the Quran, Muhammad was very angry with the Jews and Christians for changing the 'words' in the original Quran-of-old sent before Muhammad's Quran.
Muhammad was very angry because some of the changes affected the prophesy of Muhammad as the chosen messenger.
This is the main reason for verse 1:6-7.

There are many verses that reflect this point and here are examples that point to that direction;
2:59 But those who did wrong changed the word which had been told them for another saying, and We sent down upon the evil-doers wrath from heaven for their evil-doing.

2:75 Have ye any hope that they will be true to you when a party of them used to listen to the word of Allah, then used to change it, after they had understood it, knowingly?

4:46. Some [ignorant zealous Jews] of those who are Jews change words from their context and say: "We hear and disobey; hear thou as one who heareth not" and "Listen to us!" [Ra'ina] distorting [twisting] with their tongues and slandering religion [alddeeni].

5:13 And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts. They change words from their context and forget a part of that whereof they were admonished. Thou wilt not cease to discover treachery from all save a few of them. But bear with them and pardon them. Lo! Allah loveth the kindly.

Note there are many others verses that support the above point.

Obviously there are some verses in the Torah and Gospel which has the same concepts as in the present Quran.i
But because the present Torah and Gospel were not the same as the original words of Allah, i.e. the Quran-of-Old, they cannot be taken as the WHOLE original 'words of Allah' because they are corrupted.

One good example is there is no 'love your enemies' or 'give the other cheek' in the present Quran of Muhammad.

Therefore for the Muslims, the only valid and authorized Quran from Allah is that of the one recited by Muhammad in the period 610-632AD and nothing else.
The present Torah and Gospel CANNOT be accepted as authentic Quran-of-old from Allah.
Therefore the present Jews and Christians are not "Muslims".

Get it?
Suggest you read the Quran again with the above point in mind.
It is obvious that you do no get it.

The Jews and Christians themselves will tell you that they are not Muslim. In fact, according to my understanding of the meanings of the word "Muslim", anyone who believes in God, obeys His commands and does good deeds is a Muslim. Abraham was a Muslim and of course not Muhammadan.

The verses you quoted above are teaching me not to change the words of the Qur'an and those who do, pardon them rather than kill them. The verses do not say that Jews and Christians have false religion but it is clear that it came from Allah. The verses do not condemn all Jews but only the wrong doers. The same way Muslims are condermned for doing wrong. Muslims do not have any license from Allah that they will not be judged the same way for doing wrong. If we break the terms of the covenant, we too will be codemned. That is the lesson I learn.

As for the previous revelations from Allah, we do believe the truths in those messages. That is why every male baby is circumcised. This commmad is not in the Qur'an but in the revelation before the Qur'an. We also believe that Jews and Christians too would be in paradise, not only Muslims. Whoever believes and does good deeds is going to paradise is the theme in the Qur'an.
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