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Old 02-19-2016, 04:24 PM
 
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up to 40% of African slaves where Muslim before the white man forced white jesus on them... so why are you telling Muslims to go back to their own country or aren't american enough?.
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Old 02-20-2016, 12:40 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destinyfulfilled View Post
up to 40% of African slaves where Muslim before the white man forced white jesus on them... so why are you telling Muslims to go back to their own country or aren't american enough?.
If Muslim African slaves then were forced to convert to Christianity, that should be condemned as evil.


In general the average American is not telling Muslim-American [citizens] to go back to their country.
There are minority of extremists who may do that and they should be condemned and they are legally wrong to demand citizens of a country to go to another country.


However the current issue that is of concerned with many Americans is the invitation of refugees who are not American citizens to come to the USA.
Based on empirical facts, it is only normal for anyone to be wary of Muslims, since there are SOME evil prone Muslims who commit terrible evils and violence around the world in the name of Islam and Allah [Allahu Akbar].
From the above there is a strong possibility there could be SOME evil prone Muslims within the refuges coming into the USA.


Based on the principles of the Bell Curve and human nature, approximately 20% of all human have significant tendencies to commit evil when trigger by violent stimuli.


Therefore if 1,000 of Muslim refugees were to arrive in USA there is 200 of potential evil prone Muslims. The scary thing with this number is it only take one or two to create much terror, note the couple of Muslims in the St. Benardino case, the Boston Marathon and elsewhere individual Muslim has also created much havoc and terrors in the name of Islam and Allah.


Therefore to play safe it would be advisable not to import Muslim refugees into USA, at least at the present.
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Old 02-20-2016, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
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It may be true that 40% of the African slaves captured by Islamists and brought to America had Islam forced on them while in Africa. Doesn't mean they have continued to follow that particular superstition once they got away from it's influence and were able to choose their own path. I would be curious to know what percentage of black Americans now are Islamists, but I suspect it's a far lower percentage.
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Old 02-20-2016, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,311,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
It may be true that 40% of the African slaves captured by Islamists and brought to America had Islam forced on them while in Africa. Doesn't mean they have continued to follow that particular superstition once they got away from it's influence and were able to choose their own path. I would be curious to know what percentage of black Americans now are Islamists, but I suspect it's a far lower percentage.
The proper name for a person that performs Islam is Muslim (Male) Muslimah(Female) Islamist has the connotation of a political Movement. I doubt if many Black American Muslims are Islamist.

What percentage of Black Americans are Muslim is probably impossible to calculate as most probably are not open about it. As Mosques do not usually have membership, there are no rolls of who is a Muslim.

African-Americans began to rediscover their African Islamic roots after the Great Migration of Blacks from the South to the Northern cities after World Wars I and II. The re-emergence of African-American Islam has been a consistent phenomenon during the twentieth century until the present. Today, African-American Muslims constitute roughly a third of the American Muslim population.
American Muslims in the United States | Teaching Tolerance

Also the majority of American Muslims do not attend a Mosque. There are not enough Mosques to serve even the identified Muslims.

In Addition to Black American Muslims there are also a sizable number of NOI which is loosely based upon Islam and whose adherents call them self Muslims.

Some Black Muslim Americans are NOI. They are not accepted as being Muslim by Many Muslims. They are quite successful in their prison ministries and a very large percentage of them converted to Islam (NOI Flavor) while in prison. Quite a few of them do convert to Islam when they attempt to go to Mecca on Hajj.Some noted ones being Malcolm X and Muhammad Ali
Up until 9/11 the only Muslims most Americans knew of were NOI. Hard to tell how many there are but usually they are not counted as Muslims for statistical purposes.
The NOI Mosques are usually quite large. There are an estimated 400 NOI Mosques in the US.Many of them being renovated Christian churches.

As for Mainstream Black American Muslims there are quite a few My Guess is at least 1,000,000 with family trees extending back to pre-colonial days. The estimated Muslim population in the USA runs from a low of 2,000,000 to a high of 20,000,000 but it is generaly accepted that at least 1/3 are Afro-Americans.

There also are Spanish/American Muslim descended from Muslims that came as conquistadors or Explorers with the Spanish. The Spanish Galleons often had Muslim crews. The Muslims were noted as being outstanding navigators.

there are also Native American Muslims that converted to Islam after contact with Muslims,My wife being from one such family. Many early Ranchers and tradesmen were Muslims.from Syria (it is no accident that one of the oldest cities in North Dakota is named Medina. Many Syrian Muslims were early settlers in the Dakotas, Minnesota and Montana in the 1800s and Early 1900s.
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Old 02-20-2016, 09:37 PM
 
3,293 posts, read 1,892,813 times
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Originally Posted by Continuum View Post

Based on the principles of the Bell Curve and human nature, approximately 20% of all human have significant tendencies to commit evil when trigger by violent stimuli.
Where on earth did you get this stat? The "principle of the bell curve" simply says that normal statistical distributions are symmetrical, and that there is a declining likelihood of a given sample falling under the curve the further away one goes from the mean. Your 20% figure is in no way implied by the "principle of the bell curve."
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Old 02-21-2016, 01:33 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post
Where on earth did you get this stat? The "principle of the bell curve" simply says that normal statistical distributions are symmetrical, and that there is a declining likelihood of a given sample falling under the curve the further away one goes from the mean. Your 20% figure is in no way implied by the "principle of the bell curve."
It is based on a very conservative inference and estimation based on the Principles of the Bell Curve.


Here is an example of estimation by inference.
(Assuming no exceptional skewness)
Say the shortest adult human is 3 feet.
The tallest is 8 feet.
The average height is 5 and a half feet.
From the above facts and Principles of the Bell Curve, I can estimated at least 20% of humans are likely to be below 4.2 feet.


I don't think I would be very far from the truth with my estimation.


I have done the same with a distribution of all adults humans who good and evil thus applicable to all Muslims.
I said my estimation is very conservative as one will note in many polls there are many instances of more than 20% and up to 60% Muslim supporting the various negatives/evils of Islam.
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Old 02-21-2016, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,311,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
It is based on a very conservative inference and estimation based on the Principles of the Bell Curve.


Here is an example of estimation by inference.
(Assuming no exceptional skewness)
Say the shortest adult human is 3 feet.
The tallest is 8 feet.
The average height is 5 and a half feet.
From the above facts and Principles of the Bell Curve, I can estimated at least 20% of humans are likely to be below 4.2 feet.


I don't think I would be very far from the truth with my estimation.


I have done the same with a distribution of all adults humans who good and evil thus applicable to all Muslims.
I said my estimation is very conservative as one will note in many polls there are many instances of more than 20% and up to 60% Muslim supporting the various negatives/evils of Islam.
Your view of the Bell curve is based upon a very common misconception. That the "Bell curve" is the norm. Statistical Analysis is a very complex field of mathematics and the concept of population curves is a tool used to illustrate graphically the findings. The standard bell curve only exists when the Mean, median and mode are identical, which is nearly a mathematical impossibility, unless a person designs a population to match that.


You can not make a balenced curve and use it to predict an expectation, you have to take mathematical fact and use that to create the curve. While it is true some human's have a strong tendency towards violence, but we can not predict the percentages based up a designed curve. We use the curve to illustrate what is found in a specific measured population.

Another error is the assumption all humans form a homogeneous population. There are multiple differences among individual populations. Even among Muslims there are many different populations each with it's own sets of demographics. What holds true for far eastern Muslims does not equate to what holds true for African Muslims which is not valid for what holds true for Caucasian European Muslims which is different from what holds true fro African-American Muslims and even within there will be variances among Quran only. Shi'ite, Sunni and even among any adherence to a madhab.

There do not appear to have been any studies showing that a specific percentage of Humans are prone to violence. However there are studies that show the populations of cities vary in the percentage of people that commit violent crimes. Using the 50 most violent cities in the world as the source of data

The 50 Most Violent Cities In The World - Business Insider

The resulting curve would indicate South America as being the Most violent continent on earth and zero violence among the Muslim majority nations.

The curves can only illustrate what has been actually measured and are not a tool of predictability. While evidence does show that there are humans with a predisposition of violence, in every human group, we have no means of stating the percentage of humans that are. The Stand Bell curve is a Mathematical model that does not exist except as a mathematical starting poit. As an analogy it is to statistics what zero is to counting.

the 20% figure is arbitrary and probably does not hold true in any specific demographic group.

Some Statistical terms you may want to review are:

Mean
Median
Mode
Standard of deviation
Population
Demographics
Raw Data
bias

An excellent review source for many statistical terms is: Internet Glossary of Statistical Terms by Dr. Howard S. Hoffman
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Old 02-21-2016, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,590,726 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Your view of the Bell curve is based upon a very common misconception. That the "Bell curve" is the norm. Statistical Analysis is a very complex field of mathematics and the concept of population curves is a tool used to illustrate graphically the findings. The standard bell curve only exists when the Mean, median and mode are identical, which is nearly a mathematical impossibility, unless a person designs a population to match that.


You can not make a balenced curve and use it to predict an expectation, you have to take mathematical fact and use that to create the curve. While it is true some human's have a strong tendency towards violence, but we can not predict the percentages based up a designed curve. We use the curve to illustrate what is found in a specific measured population.

Another error is the assumption all humans form a homogeneous population. There are multiple differences among individual populations. Even among Muslims there are many different populations each with it's own sets of demographics. What holds true for far eastern Muslims does not equate to what holds true for African Muslims which is not valid for what holds true for Caucasian European Muslims which is different from what holds true fro African-American Muslims and even within there will be variances among Quran only. Shi'ite, Sunni and even among any adherence to a madhab.

There do not appear to have been any studies showing that a specific percentage of Humans are prone to violence. However there are studies that show the populations of cities vary in the percentage of people that commit violent crimes. Using the 50 most violent cities in the world as the source of data

The 50 Most Violent Cities In The World - Business Insider

The resulting curve would indicate South America as being the Most violent continent on earth and zero violence among the Muslim majority nations.

The curves can only illustrate what has been actually measured and are not a tool of predictability. While evidence does show that there are humans with a predisposition of violence, in every human group, we have no means of stating the percentage of humans that are. The Stand Bell curve is a Mathematical model that does not exist except as a mathematical starting poit. As an analogy it is to statistics what zero is to counting.

the 20% figure is arbitrary and probably does not hold true in any specific demographic group.

Some Statistical terms you may want to review are:

Mean
Median
Mode
Standard of deviation
Population
Demographics
Raw Data
bias

An excellent review source for many statistical terms is: Internet Glossary of Statistical Terms by Dr. Howard S. Hoffman
Looks like you are trying to teach me about Statistics.
I have taken a course in Statistics [Theory and Applied] so I know what are its capabilities and limitations.


Btw you have agreed many times with me 20% of all humans are evil prone, i.e. likely to commit a range of evil. Have you changed your mind or is contradicting yourself? I'll leave it to you to correct the situation.


I have not come across any specific study of the prone_ness of evil in people.
However one can easily use one's intelligence to infer estimated and conservation results based on the Principles of the Bell Curve.
Note the one I did with human height which is applicable to 'evil'.
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Old 02-22-2016, 02:57 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,311,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Looks like you are trying to teach me about Statistics.
I have taken a course in Statistics [Theory and Applied] so I know what are its capabilities and limitations.


Btw you have agreed many times with me 20% of all humans are evil prone, i.e. likely to commit a range of evil. Have you changed your mind or is contradicting yourself? I'll leave it to you to correct the situation.


I have not come across any specific study of the prone_ness of evil in people.
However one can easily use one's intelligence to infer estimated and conservation results based on the Principles of the Bell Curve.
Note the one I did with human height which is applicable to 'evil'.
I have agreed many times that a percentage of all people are evil prone. I do not know what that percentage is therefore I have no basis to argue if it is or is not 20%


Statistical analysis is often represented graphically the most come method is by a curve chart. The curve can be asymmetrical or symmetrical depending upon the data input. Most frequently it will be asymmetrical however if it is symmetrical (A Bell curve) which will only occur if the Mean. Median and Mode are equal. That normally does not occur and only occurs if the goal of the observer is to change data to achieve It can be used to illustrate success or failure of a behavior modification program such as a smoking cessation program in which at the begining is 100% smokers and the goal is to achieve 0% smokers. Using full time smokers as 100 and non-smokers as 0 and various levels of smoking as represented by the in between Numbers We begin with a straight diagonal line from, 0 up to 100 (all smokers) our goal is to change that to a diagonal line with all at the zero end (non-smokers) and dropping to 100 If we are demonstrating our progress by a curve when we have attained a bell curve we have achieved the half way point of our goal.

There is nothing magic or predictability qualities of a Bell curve. It is simply the only point of our presentation that is symmetrical.

Back in the 1940s-60s some educators had the impression that the Bell Curve represented the standard spread of grades and teachers began grading on the curve. 50% of the students got Cs 25% above C and 25% below C it corrupted the concept of the bell curve which persists even to today.

Every Curve can only represent the measured population and should not go beyond that.

Human's are not a homogeneous population. Separate curves have to be generated for each specific population. Such as Mid-Eastern Muslims, South American Catholics, North American Democrats, New York Bankers. The more specific we identify our population the more accurate our graph(curve) will be.

the "Bell Curve" is not an accurate representation of Human characteristics, in fact the occurrence of a perfect Bell curve is so rare that if a study results in a Bell curve it is almost a certainty the data was manipulated.. The classic example is Mendel's studies with peas. His results did produce a perfect Bell curve and it did turn out he had fudged the Data.The miracle was that in spite of it his results turned out to be accurate on a macro level but not on the micro level.
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Old 02-22-2016, 03:39 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,311,550 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
It is based on a very conservative inference and estimation based on the Principles of the Bell Curve.


Here is an example of estimation by inference.
(Assuming no exceptional skewness)
Say the shortest adult human is 3 feet.
The tallest is 8 feet.
The average height is 5 and a half feet.
From the above facts and Principles of the Bell Curve, I can estimated at least 20% of humans are likely to be below 4.2 feet.


I don't think I would be very far from the truth with my estimation.


I have done the same with a distribution of all adults humans who good and evil thus applicable to all Muslims.
I said my estimation is very conservative as one will note in many polls there are many instances of more than 20% and up to 60% Muslim supporting the various negatives/evils of Islam.
However data is applicable only for the data source. Your concept would be correct if there were only 2 people. but to project beyond those 2 people you are going beyond the measured population. In your example the introduction of one more person will skew the curve unless the third person happens to be 5 and a half feet tall.

It is very rare for accurate and relevent data to result in a Bell curve.


The Bell Curve and Assigning Grades

by Rick Yount | 06.30.11 | Called to Teach, Teacher Training


The bell curve is to education what the rack is to interrogation.
Both produce unreliable measures of truth.

Jason Norris wrote me yesterday in response to my post “The Dark Side of Education: Testing”. Of immediate interest was my comment on the (abusive) use of a Bell curve in grading. Specifically he asked me to elaborate on this statement: “Teaching, like counseling, is a . . .

. . . direct intervention. The best result, in teaching or counseling, finds everyone excelling.”

Here’s the excerpt he cited:

A student averages a 96% on four course exams, but earns a D in the course, because many students in the course scored better than he did. The grading scale for that semester, given at the end of the semester, was 99% (A), 98% (B), 97% (C), 96% (D) and less than 96% (F). Simple fairness dictated that every student should have received an A. Were the exams too easy, or did the students excel? If the former, the professor should have awarded As to all students and re-written the exams for the next semester. If the latter, the students deserved As. Adherence to an arbitrary distribution of grades (A-F) is sinful, especially when the grade point equivalents are determined after the grades are earned! [2]
….
[2] The faulty reasoning goes like this: there should be few but equal numbers of As and Fs, more but equal numbers of Bs and Ds, and the most falling in the middle with Cs. This is considered “fair.” Let’s apply this evaluation standard to, say, counseling. There should be few but equal numbers of clients who overcome their problems and those who commit suicide, more but equal numbers of clients who get better, and get worse, and finally most clients who fall in the middle: they stay the same. Of course this is nonsense.
The Bell Curve and Assigning Grades | Dr. Rick Yount
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