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Old 02-25-2016, 11:32 AM
 
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I give up.
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Old 03-15-2016, 10:03 PM
 
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They are bigots and racists as well.
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Old 03-22-2016, 02:02 PM
bg7
 
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Islamophobia is a preposterous term that should put to bed. Disagreeing with an ideology isn't a phobia.


Muslimophobia should be used instead, since it implicates the ethnic association.
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Old 03-22-2016, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Islamophobia is a preposterous term that should put to bed. Disagreeing with an ideology isn't a phobia.


Muslimophobia should be used instead, since it implicates the ethnic association.
Islam is first and foremost a political system with significant cultural implications. The religious side is simply the marketing arm, to create an appeal and a justification for the political/behavioral aspects. To say that "Islamophobia" has a "racist" connotation is comparable to a coining a concern about the Nazi party as "Naziphobia". One can be appalled and revolted by the acts and tenants of a political system without being racist.
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Old 03-22-2016, 02:24 PM
bg7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Islam is first and foremost a political system with significant cultural implications. The religious side is simply the marketing arm, to create an appeal and a justification for the political/behavioral aspects. To say that "Islamophobia" has a "racist" connotation is comparable to a coining a concern about the Nazi party as "Naziphobia". One can be appalled and revolted by the acts and tenants of a political system without being racist.


yes - I agree. That's why I said there should be no "phobia" of an ideology (whether the ideology is religious, veganism, Nazism etc). Its an apologist's term used to shield the ideology (Islam) from criticism.


That's why muslimophobia would be a better term since it goes more to ethnicity than simple belief/ideology. Islam is an ideology. A muslim is a person - some people would even describe themselves as atheist muslims or agnostic muslims since it is a cultural/ethnic identity to some.

Last edited by bg7; 03-22-2016 at 02:35 PM..
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Old 03-22-2016, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,311,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Islamophobia is a preposterous term that should put to bed. Disagreeing with an ideology isn't a phobia.


Muslimophobia should be used instead, since it implicates the ethnic association.
However Muslims are found in every Race and Nationality. There are More Chinese Muslims than Syrian Muslims. There are more Caucasian Muslims of European ancestry than Arab Muslims, Only about 25$ of the World's Muslims have any Mideastern ancestry.

How would you define a Muslim Ethnicity?


As a specific practitioner? Then which flavor

Sunni? If so do you mean, Maliki, Hanafi, Hanbali, Shafi'i, Wahabbi, Salafi, Qurani etc

Shi'ite? If so do you mean Jafa'ar', Twelver or Ismaili

NOI?


Sufi?

and/or several more of the flavors we come in.

There is no single group that claims to be Muslim, there are numerous groups each claiming to be Muslim and there are many more that do not claim affiliation with any group, but simply perform Islam.
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Old 03-22-2016, 02:45 PM
bg7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
However Muslims are found in every Race and Nationality. There are More Chinese Muslims than Syrian Muslims. There are more Caucasian Muslims of European ancestry than Arab Muslims, Only about 25$ of the World's Muslims have any Mideastern ancestry.

How would you define a Muslim Ethnicity?


As a specific practitioner? Then which flavor

Sunni? If so do you mean, Maliki, Hanafi, Hanbali, Shafi'i, Wahabbi, Salafi, Qurani etc

Shi'ite? If so do you mean Jafa'ar', Twelver or Ismaili

NOI?


Sufi?

and/or several more of the flavors we come in.

There is no single group that claims to be Muslim, there are numerous groups each claiming to be Muslim and there are many more that do not claim affiliation with any group, but simply perform Islam.
How is that relevant? I'm not talking about national ethnicity. It is the muslim component of the ethnicity that is the relevant aspect. It doesn't matter what strain of Islamic belief you are since the "phobia", ie the bias, is the definer of the term. Muslimophobia (at least as it is in the West) is not Shia-specific etc, if such subtleties were even acknowledged, since it is a bias against anyone perceived to be muslim.


An arachnophobe (a real phobia of course, not a bias) doesn't distinguish between types of spiders. And muslims, (the ethnic component) ethnically aren't defined by their religious belief since they differ (like I said, some people call themselves Muslim and are not followers of Islam).


You may have a religious definition in your mind as to what a "Muslim" is ( a "proper Muslim"). But to deny that there is a transnational transracial ethnic component to "Muslim" is not correct. Just like there are plenty of ethnic (but not racial nor religious) Jews in many different countries. The term is defined by its bias target, not your distinctions between different muslims.
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Old 03-22-2016, 02:54 PM
bg7
 
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Reading your post again you seem to be trying to pin down to a specific attribute common to all muslims, and then saying since there isn't one, then...


But again, that's irrelevant. The muslimophobe will be bias against the person choosing the halaal food, the woman wearing the hajib, the man kneeling down towards mecca to pray, the atheist called Mohammed whose resume comes across his desk. There are many components of muslim ethnicity that are sufficient per se without being entirely common attributes.


Now Islam, since it is just an ideology (even if given the *special* label of a religion) is entirely open to scrutiny. And, like most religions, it doesn't do great under the spotlight by modern day evolved understandings of humanity. The silly term "Islamophobia" notwithstanding.
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Old 03-22-2016, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,311,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Reading your post again you seem to be trying to pin down to a specific attribute common to all muslims, and then saying since there isn't one, then...


But again, that's irrelevant. The muslimophobe will be bias against the person choosing the halaal food, the woman wearing the hajib, the man kneeling down towards mecca to pray, the atheist called Mohammed whose resume comes across his desk. There are many components of muslim ethnicity that are sufficient per se without being entirely common attributes.


Now Islam, since it is just an ideology (even if given the *special* label of a religion) is entirely open to scrutiny. And, like most religions, it doesn't do great under the spotlight by modern day evolved understandings of humanity. The silly term "Islamophobia" notwithstanding.
I would agree with that if Islam had a central core ideology. But the fact is everyone who calls himself Muslim is accepted as being Muslim. We do have a wide range of differences.
At the Most all Muslims only have one thing in common and that is our belief that "There is only one God(swt) and only He is to be worshiped" Beyond that there are different opinions as to how one performs Islam and what we believe.We run pretty much the gamut of human diversity. There are even People claiming to be Muslim that follow Christianity https://www.lausanne.org/content/mus...owers-of-jesus

and yes if they claim to be Muslim they are considered to be Muslim even if the majority of us believe they are not performing Islam. We do not know who is a Muslim, we only know who claims to be a Muslim
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Old 03-22-2016, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Chicago (from pittsburgh)
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Well, seeing as Muslims come in many races, it isn't racist to dislike Islam.
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