Shaking faith: How ISIS is causing Muslims to abandon Islam

[juju33312]

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

The words in parenthesis are yours not mine. Are we to assume that you are clairvoyant and know my thoughts? I never said they deserve it, it is simply a consequence of their action. I also said I do not believe Hell is the physical punishments described in the scriptures of the Abrahamic faiths. I said I believe they are metaphors so we can know the road to Hell is a poor choice to make. Heaven and Hell appear to be described in a manner that we can understand Heaven is a place where we wave all we could desire even in our wildest fantasies and Hell is described in a manner to show it is everything we desire to avoid. The important thing to know is that the final judgement is going to be just and fair. No one will be accountable for what they have neither the knowe not the ability to do. Our sincere good intentions will be rewarded as if we have actual done them and our bad intions will not be judged, only the actually evil we have done will be judged. We all including you and I wiwarded for our good deeds and good intentions.. With the rewards being much greater than what our deeds are worth.

You know and understand how you interpret the Qur'an, Just as I know how I understand and interpret the Qur'an.

Neither you nor I understand and know how anyone else understands and interprets the Qur'an

To understand how every Muslim understands and interprets it we have to ask each and every Muslim. There is no interpretation taught to Muslims as being the "Correct Interpretation" each of us has to search and on our own that which we our self have verified. No Muslim has the right to say their interpretation is the correct one as we can be in error, and it would be sinful to spread error as fact. We can express our individual opinions and give the reasons why we have such opinions but it is always just an opinion and we as individuals will acknowledge we accept full blame if we are wrong. Being Muslim is a life of questioning all things and seeking verification of what we find and to never accept another person's opinion unless we our self have found reason to agree with it.

We are not mass produced in a "Muslim factory" and all made from the same mold. We are not force fed any doctrine or teaching and told we have to believe it. We have to question all things and not believe except that which we our self have found to be true.

Assume that I know definitions of words and that I know how to understand English.

Assume that I know garbage like this is pretty darn explicit and not some metaphor:

Quran 22:19-22 “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”

Sounds pretty physical to me. And it's VERY simple to interpret. So what you say is hogwash.

[Woodrow LI]

Originally Posted by juju33312

Assume that I know definitions of words and that I know how to understand English.

Assume that I know garbage like this is pretty darn explicit and not some metaphor:

Quran 22:19-22 “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”

Sounds pretty physical to me. And it's VERY simple to interpret. So what you say is hogwash.

While you may understand English, that does not mean you understand the concept of metaphors. or what this Muslim believes or for that matter what any person believes. . We can only know what a person tells us they believe and often that can not be expressed in words. Neither you nor me nor Hawkings,the Pope nor any Human knows what another person believes unless they them self tell us and they have the ability to express it in words.

I do not believe Hell can be described in Human terms and therefore the description has to be written in a manner (metaphorically) so that people are aware that Hell is not something anyone would desire. While I do not believe Hell will consist of physical torture, if I find myself in Hell I would prefer physical torture over absolute loneliness with no tactile input of any form.

My own concept of heaven and Hell is Heaven is the being in the presence of Allaah(swt) and Hell is the epitome of Atheism, the absolute absence of God(swt) and all that He created.

We are all created to be an eternal consciousness. the body will die, all material things will come to an end all that will remain is our awareness. We can choose to spend eternity alone with just our own awareness or we can choose to spend it in the presence of God(swt) and what He provides.

Just my personal opinion. Astagfirullah

[Continuum]

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

While you may understand English, that does not mean you understand the concept of metaphors. or what this Muslim believes or for that matter what any person believes.

There are many who believe the description of Hell are literal and metaphorical in some context.
Here is one POV re literal interpretation of Hell (from a quick search).
Is Qur'an literal or metaphor?

Then would those who are followed clear themselves of those who follow (them): They would see the penalty, and all relations between them would be cut off. [Surah Baqarah 2:166]

Allah Ta'ala tells us that the punishment would be seen.

As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise. [Surah Nisa 4:56]

This verse indicates that there is something in the skin which makes us feel pain.

Personally I believe the Hell as described in all holy texts are meant to be metaphorical to scare the "hell" out of believers and keep them in control.


Regardless, a God [all powerful and all knowing] should never use fears and such terrible terms and language to frighten believers to keep them in control. Such terms, language, attitude, mode, etc. has a significant impact and influence some evil prone believers to do the real thing where possible in the real world.
This is one reason why the Jordanian pilot was burnt alive by Muslims of ISIS.
The question is, will these Muslims be punished by Allah on Judgment Day?
I don't see any provisions they will be punished by Allah in committing such cruel act, after all Allah set the example, metaphorically or otherwise.

A morally good god will never include such cruelty in a holy texts that leave opportunities for SOME evil prone believers to follow the written examples and plus there is no control for the potential abuse.
Since God is supposed to be morally good, the inference is the Quran with such a cruel act in words cannot be from a God but rather it was authored by a human or group of people.