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Old 03-05-2016, 10:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post

Here's the thing I don't get. WHY do you choose to believe such evil nonsense? Why abandon morality and rationality for such monsters?
Here is the way I look at the facts.

I did absolutely nothing to earn my life. And I did absolutely nothing to earn my body.

I know that life is given to me. And with life, I was also given lots of resources. A few of which are, intelligence and logic, and the ability to use that intelligence with logic, ability to learn, and mostly importantly, ability to differentiate between what's right and what's wrong where the line is already drawn by my creator.

I know that I was sent to this world without being asked, and I know that I will be taken away from here without being asked. This tells me that someone else's is in the ultimate control. And that someone is my creator.

The question is, how should I thank my creator for blessing me with life and all the resources he gave me? What should I do with it?

When I read the message of my creator, I see that he wants me to put an effort to live an honest life where I should try my best not to hurt anyone, try to forgive those who have done injustice to me even when I have the power, ability and upper hand to take a full revenge (this must be a new concept to you ), abstain from speaking lies, cheating, and deceiving others, respect women, children, and the elderly, care for environment, care for the rights of others, obey the law of the land where I live, be respectful to all other faiths, defend and protect the weak and poor, support all the good causes by charity and volunteering, care for animal rights, etc.

I see that my creator also wants me to have lots of legal and clean fun in life. He blesses me with family, off springs, loved ones, he gave me the ability to enjoy the company of my family and friends, he encourages me to be involved in healthy sporting activities, do exercise, stay away from drugs and harmful foods, seek medical help if I get sick, gain knowledge that is beneficial to humanity, and many other things that I could to have a sense of clean and beneficial achievements.

All in all, my creator wants me to try to bring a fair balance in my life.

I see that my creator tells me that in an effort of trying to live an honest and righteous life, I may mistakes. But my creator tells me that, if I repent and do good deeds, he will forgive me.

In these short 60 - 70 odd years, the life will be over in blink of an eye, and I will be judged for my efforts of living a peaceful, honest and righteous life. And I have HOPE! .

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The way you look at it is that, you think YOU are the judge of God while you are only a subject.
You want the God to fit in YOUR criteria while you don't have ability to create a mosquito wing.
You can't stop your eyes from blinking for more than 10 minutes. lol and you want to judge the God.

What are you and, I? Something that will be a piece of rotten meat and decaying bones when buried under 6 feet of soil?

You think God is cruel because he will do the justice for wrong doings of some people? (Hitler, for example)

No, God is not cruel. It's that human being who is cruel for doing all those deeds that will make him face the consequences.

Man, kills and robs. He is rightly proven guilty in a court of law. The judge hands him the punishment as per the written law. Is the judge at fault or the criminal who earned the punishment?

Judge simply implements the law - it's the criminal who has earned the consequences.

So, it's your choice. God has shown you a green line that leads to peace, and thankfully God has also shown you the red line that leads to trouble. So the knowledge and resources have been given to you.

It's now your choice as to which line you want to follow? Don't blame God for being cruel. Blame yourself if you end up in trouble because you chose to follow the red line.
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Old 03-05-2016, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Then explain why a Muslim is forbidden to marry a disbeliever, but is permitted to marry a Jew, Christian or Sabeean and she is not required to convert?
In 5:5, the Quran permit a believing man to marry a woman from the People of the Book who were regarded as Muslim-of-old.


In this case the Book or Scripture refer to the Quran-of-Old sent by Allah to the Jews and Christians.
This implied the People of the Uncorrupted-Book.
Therefore a believing man is allowed to marry a woman of the People of the Uncorrupted-Book [Quran-of- Old before Muhammad's Quran].


The present Jews and Christians are accused in the Quran as following the Corrupted-Book.
Therefore the present Jews and Christians are People of the Corrupted-Book.


Since the present Jews and Christians are People of the Corrupted-Book, a believing man [Muslim] cannot marry a woman from the People of the Corrupted-Book.


Get the logic and the conclusion?




The Bigotry of Islam re marriage
Verse 2:221 and 60:10 do not permit Muslims to marry disbelievers to the extend a believing slave is better than a disbeliever re marriage.
Such a condition reveals the real bigotry of Islam due to the false arrogance that the Quran promote where Islam and Muslims are absolute superior in all aspects over the non-Muslims. Such an "evil" attitude is maintain and sustain in the minds of all Muslims and more so if they are inclined to obey Allah to the 't.'
Obviously the false arrogance that Islam [via Quran] promote is far from the real truths because in general non-Muslims on average [note average, not all] are better in all aspects of life and humanity than the average Muslim. The proofs of this is every evident.


The above bigotry is extended to the ability for Muslims to make friends [awliya, partners, guidance, associates] and intimate friends with non-Muslims.


This two evil elements demonstrate there is something wrong with Islam in part [not whole].
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Old 03-05-2016, 11:34 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Here is the way I look at the facts.

I did absolutely nothing to earn my life. And I did absolutely nothing to earn my body.
Problem here is you are jumping into a conclusion from facts to an illusion [God exists].


The facts are:
1. A human is born and destined to live till the inevitable.


2. A human has to live with other humans, thus one has to live one's life optimally in a balanced manner that is aligned with humanity by avoiding inherent sufferings and promoting peace.
This is the moral duty of every human being.


Your illusions:
1 Based on the above fact of life and its inherent sufferings in 2 above, you are trapped inside your own fears, anxieties, worries, despairs and hopelessness.
2. To avoid all these trapped fears, you automatically and naturally jumped upon an illusion [God exists] to soothe the above psychological angst.
3. This illusion do soothe your fears and angst but at the same time it introduced another and you are trapped into a religious straightjacket of a deeper level of primordial fears and threats.
4. If you do not obey the command of that illusory God, you are destined to Hell for eternal torture.
5. Thus you have merely jumped from the frying pan into the fire, i.e. from one set of fears to another set of real fears and threat.
6. Therefore you have not resolve the primordial problem to manage the inherent sufferings as in 2.


The Alternative Solutions
There other solutions enable a human to manage the inherent suffering without falling into the straight-jacket of another. These solutions enable potential for freedom from sufferings toward peace at least till the inevitable.
These solutions are from the various Eastern Religions which do not rely on fears and threats of Hell but provide problem-solving techniques to manage the inherent sufferings.


Your proposed solution to the facts are based on illusions which generate more primordial fears and threat, thus continual sufferings to the believers. In addition such additional fears is a liability to the individual and humanity as evident by SOME [not all] evil prone believers committing terrible evils and violence around the world when they are influenced and inspired by evil laden elements from their holy text.
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Old 03-07-2016, 09:56 AM
 
120 posts, read 107,353 times
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As promised, I will continue with my response


Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
There are several other episodes in which Muhammad is offered the clear opportunity to disavow raping women - yet he instead offers advice on how to proceed. In one case, his men were reluctant to devalue their new slaves for later resale by getting them pregnant. Muhammad was asked about coitus interruptus in particular:
"O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do coitus interruptus. A soul that which Allah has destined to exist will surely come into existence.” (Bukhari 34:432)

As indicated, the prophet of Islam did not mind his men raping the women and OKed that they could ejaculate within the bodies of their victims. Do you seriously think these women wanted sex with the men who attacked and slaughtered their husbands, fathers , sons and brothers and would sell them after sex with them?? Are you this deranged? Is this how your mother would act? Do Muslim men marry and then sell their booty?

The women of the Banu Mustaliq were sold into slavery following their rape, not later married...and obviously these women were not married when they were RAPED:

"We went out with Allah's Messenger on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger , and he said: It does not matter" (Sahih Muslim 3371)

It does not matter to Muhammed if the men make the women they are raping pregnant before selling them.

Female slaves were traded like any other simple commodity by Muhammad and his band of devoted followers:
"Then the apostle sent Sa-d b. Zayd al-Ansari, brother of Abdu'l-Ashal with some of the captive women of Banu Qurayza to Najd and he sold them for horses and weapons." (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham/Hisham 693)

Is it Islamic to sell one's wife for horses and weapons?

Ok, this takes us to the general topic of slavery..... and please stop with the hint that I lie because it is childish. I will do this in point form so it is clear


* slavery was a universal practice before Islam, before even Christianity and Judaism, and it was acceptable. I wonder why you always criticise Islam!
* All the verses and Hadith you mentioned doesn't encourage slavery but it permits it. If it is permitted to eat Tomatoes, it doesn't mean it is encouraged.
* All the verses and Hadith you mentioned doesn't encourage slavery but it permits it. If it is permitted to eat Tomatoes, it doesn't mean it is encouraged.
* Before Islam, there is no any kind of law or regulations to grant any form of rights to slaves
* Mohammed PBUH wanted to integrate slaves into the society and make them part of it, not only putting laws to protect them.
* At the beginning of Islam, it was followed mainly by slaves, they didn't see it as abusive as you see it now. (a little common sense is needed here)


So, in those days a person can be a slave in many ways:
- POW
- Through inability to pay debt. so, the bank can call you and say "Hello Mr. juju, you didn't pay your credit card so you have to be our slave now
- Kidnapping
- selling children into slavery because of poverty
- anyway they can. so basically if a person can, He can make you a slave


Islam came and prohibited all these forms of slavery and allowed only one. and not only allowed that way, but it also restricted it. Islam allowed. meaning not only POW, but POW that are not ransomed.


now, Is raping a slave girls allowed?


The answer is no, and I have two proves for this


1. Common sense
Zadhan reported that Ibn Umar called his slave and he found the marks (of beating) upon his back. He said to him: I have caused you pain. He said: No. But he (Ibn Umar) said: You are free. He then took hold of something from the earth and said: There is no reward for me even to the weight equal to it. I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: He who beats a slave without cognizable offence of his or slaps him, then expiation for it is that he should set him free. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4079)

In the Hadith above, the Prophet prohibits of slapping a slave, and if the master does, He must set the slave free. If God prohibits slapping a slave, do you thing He allows raping her!!!! your answer must be no.


2. Islamic Text
Imam Al Shafi'i said:
If a man acquires by force a slave-girl, then has sexual intercourse with her after he acquires her by force, and if he is not excused by ignorance, then the slave-girl will be taken from him, he is required to pay the fine, and he will receive the punishment for illegal sexual intercourse." (Imam Al Shaafi'i, Kitaabul Umm, Volume 3, page 253)

Imam Malik Said:
In our view the man who rapes a woman, regardless of whether she is a virgin or not, if she is a free woman he must pay a "dowry" like that of her peers, and if she is a slave he must pay whatever has been detracted from her value. The punishment is to be carried out on the rapist and there is no punishment for the woman who has been raped, whatever the case. (Imam Maalik, Al-Muwatta', Volume 2, page 734)


If a person raped a slave girl
1. She will be free
2. He must pay her a fine
3. He receives a punishment of Adultery and rape




Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
No 9 year old child wants an old man to screw her:
Aisha said: The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old. He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old.(Sunan Abu Dawud, Number 2116)

The only sure thing We know about Aesha is, She was married to the prophet and She narrated a lot of Hadith, when it comes to her age, We really don't know and if you give me a hadith that says it was 6, I can show you this is not true..... do you want me to elaborate?


Most medieval Islamic history books were written 200-300 years after the advent of Islam and it is true that all of them state emphatically that Aisha was only nine when she became Muhammad’s bride. However, all of them rely on, and quote, one single individual as the source of this information. His name was Hishām ibn Urwah, a prominent narrator of sayings of the Prophet (the Hadith), who died in the year 756AD. He was Aisha’s great-grand nephew, who first suggested that his great-grand aunt was only nine-years old on the day of her wedding, after 125 years. Prior to his utterance, a century after the fact, there is no mention or reference to the age of Aisha. Hisham bin Urwah lived and taught in Medina for 70 years, yet no one else—not even his famous pupil Malik ibn Anas—-reported Aisha’s age.

The historian al-Tabari informs us in his treatise on Islamic history that the father of Aisha, Abu Bakr had four children and all them were born before the year 610AD, the year of the advent of Islam. If, as is generally accepted, Aisha became Muhammad’s bride in the year 624AD, then she had to be at least 14 years of age, if not older on the day of her wedding.

Ibn Hisham, the historian, reports that Aisha accepted Islam quite some time before Umar (the second caliph). This means she must have been at least a young girl in the year 610. Assuming she was five years old when Abu Bakr and his family converted to islam, the information puts the age of Aisha at 20 or more at the time of her marriage with Muhammad was consummated in 624AD.

Most Islamic historians agree that Asma, the elder sister of Aisha, was ten years older than her. It is also reported that Asma died in 683AD at the ripe age of 100. If this is true, then Asma would have been 31 years old at the time of Aisha’s wedding with Muhammad in 624 and the bride would have been 21.

There is a hadith of her stating her age was 6/9 but there are more Hadith to contradict that. Some of the things she relates witnessing occured about 10 years before her stated date of birth..This can be understandable as in that era it was not uncommon for people to not know their age also age was often used metaphorically a young age attributed to women to denote purity and old age attributed to men to denote wisdom. While it is true Aisha stated that she was 6 years old when she married Muhammad(saws) and the Marriage was consummated when she was 9,she is the only one reporting that.

In other Sahih Ahadith she also states she was a young girl at the time Surah 54 was revealed. We do know that was 9 years before the Hijjah and the Marriage took place 1-2 years after the Hijjah. She does not state her age only that she was a young girl. We do not know what her age would have been. Since she seems to remember when it was revealed It seems she was not a child under the age of 6 or so. Generally speaking a "Young Girl" at that era would have been between the ages of 7-12

There are other Sahih that indicate she carried Food and Water to the Muhajidun during battles and one of the Battles she did this during occurred just a year or 2 after the marriage. this was a task only adult women were permitted to do.The battle of the Trench (Al-Khandaq), or, of the Clans

While the Hadith in which Aisha stated she was 6 when married, there are more in which she indicates being much older.




Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
I'm curious...when did the word 'rape' originate and when were the ahadiths written??

I don't know and I am not going to worry myself about it

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Why did you lie about that movie?

You lost me here, what movie did I lie about?

Last edited by NABILBB; 03-07-2016 at 10:20 AM..
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Old 03-07-2016, 10:04 AM
 
Location: In a vehicle.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Does he answer those prayers? Does he grant favors to non-Muslims?

Just curious to hear what Muslims would say.
Well, as a "Non-Muslim" why would I pray to a being I don't believe in?

In fact, in the Bible is does say as to God when those who cry out to him

AMP He who sits [enthroned] in the heavens laughs [at their rebellion]; The [Sovereign] Lord scoffs at them [and in supreme contempt He mocks them].
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Old 03-07-2016, 08:55 PM
 
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I don't understand questions like this. People ask the same thing in Christianity. Is Allah (or God) supposedly omniscient? I assume so. If so, then he knows everything. If he doesn't know what heathen Joe prayed yesterday, then he doesn't know everything. Ergo, he knows what heathen Joe prayed yesterday.
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Old 03-08-2016, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post
I don't understand questions like this. People ask the same thing in Christianity. Is Allah (or God) supposedly omniscient? I assume so. If so, then he knows everything. If he doesn't know what heathen Joe prayed yesterday, then he doesn't know everything. Ergo, he knows what heathen Joe prayed yesterday.
While that is true, I assume what the writer intends is more like "Does Allaah(swt) ignore the prayers of Non-Muslims?"
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Old 03-08-2016, 01:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Does he answer those prayers? Does he grant favors to non-Muslims?

Just curious to hear what Muslims would say.
There is no Allah to listen to the prayers of non-Muslims, in the view of non-Muslims. Just as there is no Jesus to listen to the prayers of non-Christians, from the viewpoint of non-Christians.
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Old 03-10-2016, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
There is no Allah to listen to the prayers of non-Muslims, in the view of non-Muslims. Just as there is no Jesus to listen to the prayers of non-Christians, from the viewpoint of non-Christians.
Not quite true as virtually all Muslim, Most Jews, nearly all Sabeeans and Many (probably most) Christians believe that all of us of the Abrahamic faiths worship the same God(swt)

What we seem to disagree on is the methodology we use for worship.
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Old 03-11-2016, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Not quite true as virtually all Muslim, Most Jews, nearly all Sabeeans and Many (probably most) Christians believe that all of us of the Abrahamic faiths worship the same God(swt)

What we seem to disagree on is the methodology we use for worship.
The Abrahamic religions are supposed to originate from the same God.


But, given the current situation of evils and violence, I believe most Christians and Jews are present will not agree the believe "Allah" is the same God as theirs.
Just ask the Christians and Jews on the 'Religions and Spiritual' forum.
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