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Old 03-24-2016, 01:00 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Your view is based on very bad critical thinking.

Note my hypothesis again;
1. Every human being (Including myself) has potential to do evil.
2. 20% [including Muslims] are born with evil tendency, likely to commit evil.
3. There are a significant amounts of evil laden elements in the Quran [Islam].
4. Point 2 and 3 combined to generate Islam-Inspired Evils and Violence.

The general conclusion is wherever there a Muslims of significant numbers, there will be Islam-Inspired Evils and Violence.
This general conclusion is proven with glaring evidence.
Therefore my hypothesis is true.

I don't know where you guess your wild idea from that Asia has the lowest incidence of violence.
Note the specific topic is Islam-Inspired Evils and Violence and not other types of violence.

My hypothesis is not precisely into the 'highest' as there are many other factors to be considered but is it obvious there is a very high incidence of Islam-Inspired Evils and Violence coming from Asia re China, Pakistan, India, Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Afghanistan, Philippines, Bangladesh, etc.

Your bringing in of Brazil is comparing apples and oranges.
We are discussing Islam-Inspired Evils and Violence not other types of violence.
Because there are minimal Muslims in Brazil, thus there is very less Islam-Inspired Evils and Violence.
Thus my hypothesis is true in proving Brazil is one of those countries that has the lowest Islam-Inspired Evils and Violence [specifically].

There a lots of non-Islam related violence in Brazil but they are due to the 20% of evil prone who are triggered by non-Islamic matters, e.g. poverty, gangsterism, social factors etc.

The majority of the people in Brazil are Christians. However we don't hear of Christianity inspired violence.


If say we increase the Muslim population of Iceland to 50%, I am 100% certain as based on my hypothesis, there will be a tremendous increase in religion-inspired [i.e. Islam-inspired] Evils and Violence.


1,200 Muslims is not sufficient to be a critical mass. My hypothesis is applicable to a larger population of Muslims of at least 100,000 and more.

There are 1.5 billion Muslims around the world, thus 20% mean there is a potential pool of 300 million evil prone Muslims with a high tendency, propensity, compulsion, proclivity to commit evil when triggered by various effective stimuli.
Btw, I do not mean every one of the 300 million evil prone will definitely commit evils and violence which is very frightening. Even 18++ is sufficient to commit and 911 with 3000++ innocent people killed. Worst even lone wolf[s], a couple or group of up to 5 is sufficient to create real terrible terror. Note the recent Brussel case and many other similar ones in the past.

True as Brazil is nearly 100% Christian as is most of the Western world you will seldom ever hear any accusations of an action being Christian inspired. But if a Muslim spits in a public water fountain the media and public will inadvertently jump to the conclusion it is Qur'an inspired.

It does seem that every act of terrorism by Muslims have been from the same group of people and they all want the world to know they are Muslim. ISIS even takes credit for atrocities it is virtually impossible for them tho have been involved in.

It seems to be apparent that the terrorists make it a priority that Muslims to be blamed for the terrorist acts to the point they are almost certain to holler "Allahu Akbar" where survivors are certain to have heard them. It should be quite common knowledge that these attacks do lead to repercussions against all Muslims. Although the immediate target is non-Muslims it is almost a certainty they the worse effects of it will be to Muslims worldwide.

Now as for violence any whre in the world, it should make no difference as to what it's cause is, the results are the same. Secular violence kill many more times more people than religious violence both are equally evil.

There should be no distinction between criminal acts, they all need to be called what they are Which is "Criminal Acts' it should not make anydifference as to what the perceived cause is, the fact is they are all equal. There is no need or purpose to distnguish the crimes of a Drug lord or a religious fanatic. They all are "Criminal Acts" This pinpointeng may just be bias and of no value except to to stereotype groups of people.

There is violence in nearly every part of the world . Instead of looking at reasons for it perhaps we should look at nations with low incidences of violence and see what they do that stifles violence. Iceland is probably a good example. Some things that may be preventing violence. There is no over crowding, there is no economic class structure every family is pretty much economically the same. there is no unemployment and there are virtually no drugs or pornography.

Terrorist murders, for any cause, while the most noticeable and the most newsworthy are a very small percentage of the violence that occurs. and even those probably would not take place without factors in addition to ideologies, religions,or Nationalism.


Now if we look at the 10 nations with the lowest rates of violence: and compare them with the 10 nations with the highest rates of violence we may be able to come to an unbiased opinion as to the root causes of violence. As violence seems to carry different connotations I am looking only at the worse form of violence Murder. As that is about the only form that can be equally measured in all nations

The 10 nations with lowest Homicide rates

Countries With Lowest Murder Rates in World - Top Ten


The 10 Nations with the Highest Homicide rates (The list gives the 25 to find the 10 highest you have to look at pages 4 and 5, one surprise I had- Brazil is no longer the nation with the highest murder rate)

25 Countries With The Highest Murder Rates In The World

I will ask the question "What is the major difference you see between the 2 lists? " There is a common factor in the most violent list that does not appear in the least violent list. That is what I noticed, there may be other factors also.

I know you are probaby going to say this is side tracking the issue and the real issue is Religion based terrorism." The problem is that is misleading. while Religious based terrorism does exist, it is a very small percentage of the violence on this earth. Looking at the whole picture the Qur'an based nations tend to have a low rate of violence. There are factors other than the Qur'an that result in violence among some Muslims. If the Qur'an had that effect on only 1% of 20% the world's Muslims (that 20% being your estimate of the percentage of violence prone Muslims) that would give a base of 3,000,000 terrorists there would be considerably more terrorist attacks by Muslims. Your sticker with about 28,000 attacks over a 15 year period would have to be at least 10 times higher to show a probable causation between Islamic Terrorist attacks and the Qur'an. When you think about it that 28,000 attacks over a 15 year period shows that it is a very small percentage of Muslims that have conducted any Terroist attacks If my mental math comes out correctly that will be 28 out of every 100,000 Muslims. If the Qur'an was having that type of negative influence, wouldn't you expect the numbers to be much higher?
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Old 03-24-2016, 02:31 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,753 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
True as Brazil is nearly 100% Christian as is most of the Western world you will seldom ever hear any accusations of an action being Christian inspired. But if a Muslim spits in a public water fountain the media and public will inadvertently jump to the conclusion it is Qur'an inspired.
I wrote about this in another post.
Not all evils and violence committed by Muslims are Quran inspired.
I gave a example of a Muslim in a jealous rage kill his wife because she was misperceived to have been friendly with another handsome guy. In this case, the husband was overly sensitive. Such a motivation has nothing to do directly with the Quran.
Thus there are many other cases where a person who is a Muslim who committed evils and violence but it has nothing to do with Islam and it is not Quran inspired. Such cases [petty crimes, theft, corruption, etc] should be classified as secular evils.

It is not difficult for an objective person to identify Quran-inspired evils and violence which are committed by evil prone Muslims. These evil prone Muslims will not hesitate to quote Quranic verses to justify their evil and violent act. This is evident from the News and it even stated in a Court of Law.
Read the following point in the following quote;

Quote:
Dutch court has sentenced a 27-year-old radical Islamist to life in prison for the November murder of controversial film-maker Theo van Gogh.
Mohammed Bouyeri, who has joint Dutch-Moroccan nationality, had made a courtroom confession and had vowed to do the same again if given the chance.

Bouyeri had told the court he had acted out of religious conviction.

Clutching a copy of the Koran, he said that "the law compels me to chop off the head of anyone who insults Allah and the prophet".
BBC NEWS | Europe | Van Gogh killer jailed for life
Elsewhere the evil prone will leave the famous trade mark, "Allahu Akbar".
In other cases further scrutiny will lead the evil and violence to the Quran and Islam. If they are found not be Quran-inspired, then we classify them as secular evils.


Quote:
It does seem that every act of terrorism by Muslims have been from the same group of people and they all want the world to know they are Muslim. ISIS even takes credit for atrocities it is virtually impossible for them tho have been involved in.

It seems to be apparent that the terrorists make it a priority that Muslims to be blamed for the terrorist acts to the point they are almost certain to holler "Allahu Akbar" where survivors are certain to have heard them. It should be quite common knowledge that these attacks do lead to repercussions against all Muslims. Although the immediate target is non-Muslims it is almost a certainty they the worse effects of it will be to Muslims worldwide.
You got is wrong.
In your desperation to be blind with the evil of Islam [in part not whole] you have deliberately short changed yourself on facts.
It is not the same group. The facts is terrorist groups have emerged around the world where there are Muslims, i.e. China, Pakistan, Philippines, Indonesia, Southern Thailand, African Continent [many countries].
There will be more terrorist groups to emerge in the future.

Quote:
Btw, it is not only terrorist attacks but there is a whole range of evils and violence committed by evil prone Muslims around the world.

Now as for violence any where in the world, it should make no difference as to what it's cause is, the results are the same. Secular violence kill many more times more people than religious violence both are equally evil.

There should be no distinction between criminal acts, they all need to be called what they are Which is "Criminal Acts' it should not make anydifference as to what the perceived cause is, the fact is they are all equal. There is no need or purpose to distnguish the crimes of a Drug lord or a religious fanatic. They all are "Criminal Acts" This pinpointing may just be bias and of no value except to to stereotype groups of people.

There is violence in nearly every part of the world . Instead of looking at reasons for it perhaps we should look at nations with low incidences of violence and see what they do that stifles violence. Iceland is probably a good example. Some things that may be preventing violence. There is no over crowding, there is no economic class structure every family is pretty much economically the same. there is no unemployment and there are virtually no drugs or pornography.
I have explained elsewhere why humanity must addressed ALL evils and violence in the world.
However it for the sake of efficient problem techniques that we segregate the major causes in separate categories to facilitate resolution and prevention strategies.

Quote:
I know you are probably going to say this is side tracking the issue and the real issue is Religion based terrorism." The problem is that is misleading.
while Religious based terrorism does exist, it is a very small percentage of the violence on this earth. Looking at the whole picture the Qur'an based nations tend to have a low rate of violence. There are factors other than the Qur'an that result in violence among some Muslims. If the Qur'an had that effect on only 1% of 20% the world's Muslims (that 20% being your estimate of the percentage of violence prone Muslims) that would give a base of 3,000,000 terrorists there would be considerably more terrorist attacks by Muslims. Your sticker with about 28,000 attacks over a 15 year period would have to be at least 10 times higher to show a probable causation between Islamic Terrorist attacks and the Qur'an. When you think about it that 28,000 attacks over a 15 year period shows that it is a very small percentage of Muslims that have conducted any Terroist attacks If my mental math comes out correctly that will be 28 out of every 100,000 Muslims. If the Qur'an was having that type of negative influence, wouldn't you expect the numbers to be much higher?
I had stated humanity must be concerned with ALL types of evil and violence committed around the world.

Here is one point for your reflection;
If the Quran and Islam had not existed there will no evils and violence from SOME Muslims who are evil prone around the world, e.g.

These are the real facts of evils and violence regardless of how we quantify and % them;
1. The terrible evils and violence that happened during the Muslims conquest of land from Spain to China.
2. 911
3. The various terrorist acts
4. The oppression of minority non-Muslims in Muslim nations
5. ISIS
6. War in Syria and other Middle East countries due to Sunni-Shia divide
7. Note the many genocides that has happened.
8. There is also the cultural genocides.
9. Many, many more.

What is significant with Islam-inspired evils and violence is the synergic effects that reverberate around the world throughout the Muslims community. They all give moral support to each other on their individual evil acts.
ISIS terrors inspired other groups to give allegiance to ISIS and these groups get bolder and worse.
This factor enable the problem to be compounded and the impact is worsen on a worldwide basis.
For example in the Myanmar case, violence in Myanmar trigger Muslims to bomb the birthplace of the Buddha in Nepal and Buddhist temples in Indonesia.

Worst is all the above evils and violence are inspired from an illusory thing [God] and the desperate existential psychology of believers. To have allowed such terrible evils to manifest from such baseless ideas is really an insult to humanity.
This is why humanity must separate such baseless evils and violence and deal with them as a separate group from the secular evils and violence.

We are not ignoring the secular evils. Secular evils must be addressed seriously as with any types of evils that manifest within humanity.

Therefore Islam-inspired-evils and violence must be distinctively identified and dealt with accordingly.
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Old 03-24-2016, 02:41 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,037,403 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
If we are to be very serious everyone is thinking within a box, i.e. at least the human box.

Meanwhile I am thinking within a box that has many layers as proven with the materials and from the many perspectives I have engaged in, e.g. psychology, neuroscience, various spirituality, philosophy, etc.
In addition I am presenting my case as objective as possible.
In ignorance of proper spirituality, you are still thinking within the human material box. The Qur'an goes further than human box, human world (this world), human intellect and to the world of spirit (which is outside your box).

"By painful experience we have learnt that rational thinking does not suffice to solve the problems of our social life. The inventions which have made life easier and richer have also introduced a great restlessness into man's life, making him a slave to his technical environment, and the most catatrophic of all creating the means for his mass destruction. This indeed is a tragedy of overwhelming poignancy". (Einsten)

"And certinly we should take care not to make intellect our God. It has, of course, powerful muscles but no personality. It cannot lead, it can only serve, and is not fastidious in its choice of a leader. This characteristic is refected in the qualiies of its priests - the intellectuals. Intellect has sharp eyes for methods and tools, but is blind to ends and values. So it is no wonder that this fatal bindness is handed on from old to young and to-day involves a whole generation".(Einsten)
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Old 03-24-2016, 02:56 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,753 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
In ignorance of proper spirituality, you are still thinking within the human material box. The Qur'an goes further than human box, human world (this world), human intellect and to the world of spirit (which is outside your box).

"By painful experience we have learnt that rational thinking does not suffice to solve the problems of our social life. The inventions which have made life easier and richer have also introduced a great restlessness into man's life, making him a slave to his technical environment, and the most catatrophic of all creating the means for his mass destruction. This indeed is a tragedy of overwhelming poignancy". (Einstein)

"And certinly we should take care not to make intellect our God. It has, of course, powerful muscles but no personality. It cannot lead, it can only serve, and is not fastidious in its choice of a leader. This characteristic is refected in the qualiies of its priests - the intellectuals. Intellect has sharp eyes for methods and tools, but is blind to ends and values. So it is no wonder that this fatal bindness is handed on from old to young and to-day involves a whole generation".(Einstein)
I agree with Einstein's sense of spirituality but not his deism.

I am not confined to the human material box but rather extend to the human spiritual and philosophical box.

Whatever you claim and whatever the Quran claims, the Quran cannot go further than the Quran-box which is bounded by its 6,236 verses.
In addition the Quran box is tightened by the following restricted conditions;

1. God is not real
2. Muhammad suffered from altered states of consciousness which could be a mental issue.
3. Muhammad or a group of people [fallible] authored the Quran.
4. The Quran is bounded by the linguistic limitation.
5. The Quran is subjected to corruption of its text via its various stages of transmission.
6. The believer must be positively bias toward his religion, thus subjective not objective.
7. Other limitations.
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Old 03-24-2016, 05:15 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,037,403 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
1. God is not real
You are still in your box. You need to get out of your box to know anything about God.

Quote:
2. Muhammad suffered from altered states of consciousness which could be a mental issue.
You are still in your box.

Quote:
3. Muhammad or a group of people [fallible] authored the Quran.
You are still in your box.

Quote:
4. The Quran is bounded by the linguistic limitation.
Which is beyond your linguistic box.

Quote:
5. The Quran is subjected to corruption of its text via its various stages of transmission.
You are still in your ignorance box about the Qur'an.

Quote:
6. The believer must be positively bias toward his religion, thus subjective not objective.
An unbeliever can't get out of his box. To him intellect is his master that makes him think he is objective. Such objective claim is ignorant of the end and thus can't think outside the box.

Quote:
7. Other limitations.-
I can see your limitations in your box.
Einsten was correct about the intellect box!
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Old 03-25-2016, 12:46 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,753 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
You are still in your box. You need to get out of your box to know anything about God.

You are still in your box.

You are still in your box.

Which is beyond your linguistic box.

You are still in your ignorance box about the Qur'an.

An unbeliever can't get out of his box. To him intellect is his master that makes him think he is objective. Such objective claim is ignorant of the end and thus can't think outside the box.

I can see your limitations in your box.
Einsten was correct about the intellect box!
There is a very serious issue and debate in Philosophy, i.e.
"Reality cannot be absolutely independent of the human box."

Kant's Copernican Revolution proved
"Reality cannot be absolutely independent of the human box."

Can you prove reality is absolutely independent of the human box [conditions]?
There is no way you can do it. Try and show me your arguments and proofs.
Btw this is a very complex philosophical debate which I know is beyond your capability, unless you can prove me wrong.

The truth is;
"Reality cannot be absolutely independent of the human box."

The only variation thus is how big and many layers is the individual's box.
Example:
For a person like yourself, in terms of spirituality, you are like living inside a tall silo [one box only] and your world and reality is confined within the circular walls of the tall silo.
For a person with a larger and many layered box, it is like living in the open locations with open access the his town/city, state, country, continent, planet, galaxy, and the whole universe.

The fact is as a believer you must live within a closed system, i.e. within one rigid box otherwise your faith will not work.

Since you mentioned Einstein.
Note Einstein do not have any respect for religions that has a personal God, e.g. Allah. Einstein's preference is for a Spinoza sort of pantheistic God.

Here is what was attributable to Einstein [subject to confirmation];
The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism.
Even without solid confirmation I would agree with the above after having studied the comparative of all the main modern religions.

Note my view is eventually in the longer run [future], humanity must weaned off ALL religions and replace them with fool proof alternative to deal with the unavoidable psychological existential dilemma.
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