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Old 03-23-2016, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
A dear friend of mine (a Methodist Pastor) brought up almost the identical question on his facebook page. While it is right to support the victims in Brussels and to condemn the perpetrators, why was no similar outrage about the recent bombings by ISIS in Turkey, Indonesia, Burkina Faso and other non-European nations?

Good Question. Perhaps it really is all about $$$$$$$$$$$
One doesn't have to look far to see it's about money. One can just look at the PLO and see the generations that followed them that are looking to be Millionaires just like the current leaders and their inner circles that are called Fatah and Hamas. Their agenda has existed for around 50 years and the only thing that has changed is that the leaders and the generations that have followed them have become richer. They've done nothing for the people who they state they represent.
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Old 03-23-2016, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
What??! Here you are speaking for all Muslims ("We as Muslims condemn Terrorism by anyone.") and then you post "One thing you will not find among Muslims is a standardized set of beliefs followed by all Muslims."

You do not speak for all Muslims.

Next, talk is cheap. It's easy to take a stand against ISIS and also important to do so. It's just what I would be doing if I were a Muslim that did not want to get kicked out of a country and wanted the liberal left to stay on my side. But in fact, Muslims who stand against any kind of terrorism are later caught financially supporting terrorism. CAIR is an example.

What we don't see is Muslims putting their money where their mouths are. For example, Muslims set up neighborhoods that become hotbeds for terrorism and instead of inviting the police and FBI to come in and have heavy surveillance of the Muslim neighborhoods, the Muslims band together to keep the cops out! That is NOT how you act if you are against terrorism. You invite and encourage the cops to raid homes and mosques, which are used by many terrorists. You encourage profiling, since you know terrorists are using Islam as the reason for their terrorism. But Muslims don't do that. Pathetic little whimpers against terrorism do nothing to stop terrorism and a lot to encourage useful idiots to keep supporting Islam...and you yourself can and do use these few whimperers as a tool.

If Muslims are against terrorism, why are they not speaking out against the terrorism demanded in the Quran? I ask thousands of Muslims if they can say that Muhammed/Allah was wrong to promote terrorism. NOT ONE would say that.

Muslims PROTECT terrorists!

"Family, friends and a network of petty criminals, rather than Islamic State (Isis), hid Paris attacker Salah Abdeslam in the Molenbeek neighbourhood of Belgian capital Brussels over the course of a four-month international manhunt, French and Belgian officials have said.

Anne Hidalgo, the Mayor of Paris, where 130 were killed in the November 2015 attacks, has said she believed the community of Molenbeek had "undoubtedly protected" Abdeslam.


Speaking on French radio, Hidalgo said the investigation into how Abdeslam had evaded police capture, despite an intensive international manhunt, would show "family support networks" and petty criminals had hidden the Belgian national in the aftermath of the Paris attacks. She added that these kinds of closed-off communities needed to be combatted. Hidalgo said not only had the Paris attackers been protected by their neighbours and friends, but doubtless many others."

Her comments followed those made by the Belgium's federal prosecutor, Frédéric Van Leeuw. "Abdeslam relied on a large network of friends and relatives that already existed for drug dealing and petty crime to keep him in hiding," the state lawyer told the Belgian public broadcaster RTBF."

Salah Abdeslam: Family and friends 'protected' Isis Paris attacker in Brussels

Let me put it this way...if there were bands of terrorists in my neighborhood committing terrorist acts and calling themselves Objectivists, I would be BEGGING for massive police surveillance!! I would be joining them!! Instead, Muslims close ranks and protect the terrorists and the doctrine that urges them to slaughter.
The We I refer to are us Muslims posting in this thread in condemnation of the terrorists. The title is clear about that

" We as Muslims stand united in condemnation of ISIS for today's attack in Brussels."

The expectation and intent was that the Muslim City-Data members would post here to express their condemnation.
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Old 03-23-2016, 04:11 PM
 
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Just my opinions and views only. Sounds like rationalizing to me. Street gang members do not deliberately target innocent women and children, elderely men and women, and innocents period. All fall short of the glory of God, and all are capable of evil deeds. The world is teeming with darkness, in every nook and cranny. There is a lot of light strewn bout the darkness though. Ying and yang maybe. The hope is for love and the light to prevail in this world.

Sometimes we try to convince ourselves by rationalizing, that things are not what they seem, and/or are better then how we or others perceive them to be. It is called minimizing. I get that the terror seems to emanate mostly from Musliims from the middle east, as opposed to Muslims who are of Asian desecent and etc.

People don't hate Islam, or Muslims, some fear and mistrust them, rather. Can one blame them? Hate is a 2 way street. Many in the Muslim world seem to hate Israel, Jews, Christians, Yazidis, the West, Shia's, Sufi's, etc. I suspect that one would find more respect from the West (USA, Europe) towards Muslims, then the West would find from Muslims in general, and in actuality. A Muslim middle eastern immigrant can go shop at Walmart in America and never have to worry about anything. An American women can go shopping in Quatar, and wind up getting stabbed to death.

Radical Islamic Extremism/Terrorism reigns supreme, on top of the mound of evil, in the world today, imo. Islam in of itself, and the culture of the middle east are both beautiful and noble things. It is humans who choose to walk in the darkness, and twist things to suit their own evil inclinations. Most Muslims in the world, just like anyone else, are good, Godly, peace loving souls. The small minority may be Terrorists. It doesn't take much though, as a little yeast works through the entire batch of dough...in regard to perceptions, in this case.

I have wondered what do some Muslims of the world, think when a suicide bomber screaming "Allahu Akbar", blows the limbs off, and takes the lives of innocent women and children, and elders, and all innocents period. Do some Muslims think he will go to heaven? Do some consider him a martyr? Is what he has done, pleasing to the eyes of God, to some? If anyone murders innocents, deliberately, no matter who they are, I would think that there is a rather smoldering hot, special place in hell for such souls.

Last edited by folkguitarist555; 03-23-2016 at 04:38 PM..
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Old 03-23-2016, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Here
1,694 posts, read 1,496,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
A dear friend of minep (a Methodist Pastor) brought up almost the identical question on his facebook page. While it is right to support the victims in Brussels and to condemn the perpetrators, why was no similar outrage about the recent bombings by ISIS in Turkey, Indonesia, Burkina Faso and other non-European nations?

Good Question. Perhaps it really is all about $$$$$$$$$$$
Europe is viewed as sort of a cousin of America. It is an American vacation spot, or has been until recently. It's also about history, including wars, and it's an ancestral homelands for most Americans. Europe is a little like the guy up the street you wave to when you pass by him mowing the lawn. You find out the he was murdered, there is a couple of reasons why it is more concerning and why the murderer is more deeply reviled when compared to an unknown murder victim living in different city.
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Old 03-23-2016, 04:58 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 753,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The We I refer to are us Muslims posting in this thread in condemnation of the terrorists. The title is clear about that

" We as Muslims stand united in condemnation of ISIS for today's attack in Brussels."

The expectation and intent was that the Muslim City-Data members would post here to express their condemnation.
The title is NOT clear about that. And you did not state an intent or expectation at all. In fact you said: "This was a cowardly act that is not tolerated by Muslims world wide".

I wonder why are you worried about Muslims condemning something you think is "statistically insignificant"?

You said in another post: "Have interject a thought here. Nearly 2/3 of the world's Muslims live in Asia, but Asia has one of the lowest homicide rates. Do you realize that if that 2012 figure reflects the annual average that means world wide there were at least 6,555,000 Murders since 9/11 that are not attributed to Muslim terrorists.

When looking at the world wide incidence of violence the numbers in that sticker come close to being statistically insignificant, especially when one views them as being the accumulation of 15 years. They are less than 5 percent the number of violent acts committed in 2012 alone. Yet Muslims make up over 25% of the world's population. Shucks, just to keep on par with the non-Muslim world that sticker would have to be at least 2,000,000."

This is the kind of talk we are hearing from apologetics wanting to sweep Islamic terrorism under the rug.
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Old 03-23-2016, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,302,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by folkguitarist555 View Post
Just my opinions and view only. Sounds like rationalizing to me. Street gang members do not deliberately target innocent women and children, elderely men and women, and innocents period. All fall short of the glory of God, and all are capable of evil deeds. The world is teeming with darkness, in every nook and cranny. There is a lot of light strewn bout the darkness though. Ying and yang maybe. The hope is for love and the light to prevail in this world.

Sometimes we try to convince ourselves by rationalizing, that things are not what they seem, and/or are better then how we or others perceive them to be. It is called minimizing. I get that the terror seems to emanate mostly from Musliims from the middle east, as opposed to Muslims who are of Asian desecent and etc.

Hate is a 2 way street. Many in the Muslim world seem to hate Israel, Jews, Christians, Yazidis, the West, Shia's, Sufi's, etc. I suspect that one would find more respect from the West (USA, Europe) towards Muslims, then the West would find from Muslims in general, and in actuality. A Muslim middle eastern immigrant can go shop at Walmart in America and never have to worry about anything. An American women can go shopping in Quatar, and wind up getting stabbed to death. Just my opinions and views.

Radical Islamic Extremism/Terrorism reigns supreme, on top of the mound of evil, in the world today, imo. Islam in of itself, and the culture of the middle east are both beautiful and noble things. It is humans who choose to walk in the darkness, and twist things to suit their own evil inclinations. Most Muslims in the world, just like anyone else, are good, Godly, peace loving souls. The small minority may be Terrorists. It doesn't take much though, as a little yeast works through the entire batch of dough...in regard to perceptions, in this case.

I have wondered what do some Muslims of the world, think when a suicide bomber screaming "Allahu Akbar", blows the limbs off, and takes the lives of innocent women and children, and elders, and all innocents period. Do some Muslims think he will go to heaven? Do some consider him a martyr? Is what he has done, pleasing to the eyes of God, to some? If anyone murders innocents, deliberately, no matter who they are, I would think that there is a rather smoldering hot, special place in hell for such souls.
Working backwards

A terrorist hollering "Allahu Ahkbar" (God is Great)actually makes little sense. If they sincerely believe they are doing it in the Name of God, why don't they holler "Bismillah" (In the name of Allah) which is what every Muslim is to say when they are dedicating their action to God(swt)/ Hollering Allahu Akbar is almost like something out of a Rudolph Valentino movie.

As to what I think of suicide bombers I believe they have committed an unforgivable sin. Suicide is a very serious sin in Islam, and virtually impossible to ask forgiveness for before death. To be forgiven, we must ask for it before our final breath.

Odd you should mention Qatar as the majority of the Population is not Muslim. Although 100% of the citizens are Muslims only 12.5% of the population are citizens. The largest group are Hindus that make up 30% of the non-citizen population followed closely by Roman Catholics that make up 20% of the non-citizen population.

Quote:
Section I. Religious Demography

The U.S. government estimates the total population is two million (July 2013 estimate). Citizens make up approximately 12.5 percent of the population. Sunni Muslims constitute the majority of citizens; Shia Muslims number between 5 and 15 percent.

Most noncitizens are Sunni or Shia Muslims, Hindus, Christians, or Buddhists. While the government does not release figures regarding religious affiliation, noncitizen estimates are available from Christian groups and local embassies. The Hindu community, almost exclusively from India and Nepal, comprises more than 30 percent of noncitizens. Roman Catholics are approximately 20 percent of the noncitizen population, while Buddhists, largely from South, Southeast, and East Asia, are approximately 7 percent of noncitizens. Groups constituting less than 5 percent of the population include Anglicans, Egyptian Copts, Bahais of Iranian or Lebanese origin, and members of the Greek and other Eastern Orthodox Churches.
Report on International Religious Freedom
In several of the smaller Arab nations like Qatar, the citizens are a small minority of the population and the majority of the population being non-Muslim non-citizen residents.


A non-Muslim female shopping in Qatar should be quite safe. Or at least as safe as shopping in the USA
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Old 03-23-2016, 05:21 PM
 
2,106 posts, read 2,161,890 times
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American teacher murdered in Abu Dhabi mall

My mistake, murder happened in Abu Dhabi

That's ok, look, all I want to see in the world, is love...love for each other, despite differences. That s my greatest hope for all the world. The violence has to cease.
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Old 03-23-2016, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by folkguitarist555 View Post
American teacher murdered in Abu Dhabi mall

My mistake, murder happened in Abu Dhabi

That's ok, look, all I want to see in the world, is love...love for each other, despite differences. That s my greatest hope for all the world. The violence has to cease.
I should have realized it was a confusion over countries. I am not female and it has been many years since I was in any Arab nations admittadly in the 1960s the Arab world was much more peaceful than it is today.

Like you it is my desire to see peace, mutual respect and love to permeate through all nations.
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Old 03-23-2016, 11:24 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,588,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Working backwards

A terrorist hollering "Allahu Ahkbar" (God is Great)actually makes little sense. If they sincerely believe they are doing it in the Name of God, why don't they holler "Bismillah" (In the name of Allah) which is what every Muslim is to say when they are dedicating their action to God(swt)/ Hollering Allahu Akbar is almost like something out of a Rudolph Valentino movie.
I heard in a youtube video it was Muhammad [reported in a Hadith] who holler Allahu Akbar to cast terror upon infidels and these evil prone are merely motivated by their exemplar.

Quote:
As to what I think of suicide bombers I believe they have committed an unforgivable sin. Suicide is a very serious sin in Islam, and virtually impossible to ask forgiveness for before death. To be forgiven, we must ask for it before our final breath.
"Suicide Bombing" is a term used by non-Muslims and others.
The evil prone who understand "DUCK" do not view it as "suicide bombing."

From the verses of the Quran:
The evil prone Muslims who use their body to carry the bomb view themselves as martyrs in accordance to the Quran.
In the Quran Muslims are exhorted to strive for the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives.
In other verses, martyrs who die for the cause of Allah are favored on Judgment Day and are accorded greater rewards.
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Old 03-24-2016, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,302,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I heard in a youtube video it was Muhammad [reported in a Hadith] who holler Allahu Akbar to cast terror upon infidels and these evil prone are merely motivated by their exemplar.

"Suicide Bombing" is a term used by non-Muslims and others.
The evil prone who understand "DUCK" do not view it as "suicide bombing."

From the verses of the Quran:
The evil prone Muslims who use their body to carry the bomb view themselves as martyrs in accordance to the Quran.
In the Quran Muslims are exhorted to strive for the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives.
In other verses, martyrs who die for the cause of Allah are favored on Judgment Day and are accorded greater rewards.

While most of the suicide bombers were "Sheeple" following the directives of despots misusing Islam and believe they are "Martyrs" suicide is always forbidden even in war. Even during the lifetime of Muhammad(saws) a soldier was not to deliberately seek death while at the same time not fear it.


Suicide attacks by Muslims are a fairly recent phenomena. They violate Muahammad(saws)'s rules of war and the Qur'an in many aspects. It simply was not a consideration util the past 100 years or so.

Quote:
History

The concept of self-sacrifice has long been a part of war, but the idea of suicide bombing "as a tool of stateless terrorists" was only "dreamed up a hundred years ago by the European anarchists",[140] according to author Noah Feldman.[141] It was not until 1983 when Shiite militants blew up the U.S. Marine barracks in Lebanon, that it became "tool of modern terrorist warfare."[141] Modern suicide bombing has been defined as "involving explosives deliberately carried to the target either on the person or in a civilian vehicle and delivered by surprise".[142] (Noah Feldman and many others exclude terror attacks such as the Lod Airport massacre where "the perpetrator’s ensured death" was not "a precondition for the success of his mission".[17]) The intended targets are often civilian, not just military or political.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attack
I do not disagree that the majority of "Suicide Terrorist Attacks" have been by Muslims. I disagree that they are the result of the Qur'an. They are the result of selective training by evil people using the Qur'an erroneously to train the ignorant in order to spread hatred of Islam throughout the non-Muslim world. Sadly they ave been accomplishing their goal judging by some of the accusations against Islam in this forum. Non-Muslims that hate Islam and the Qur'an seem to have become the predominate posters. Perhaps the name of the forum should be changed to "Hate Islam Forum"

My opinion is those recruiting and training the terrorists desire to gain control of the Mideast & possibly all Islamic Nations. I believe they are attempting to establish their own religion to control the populace. They are making it almost impossible for Muslims that desire peace to find refuge in any non-Muslim nation and their Terrorist acts are spreading distrust of Muslims that are already accepted in the non-Muslim nations. The heretics need to destroy Islam to accomplish their own concept of Islam. In reaching this goal they have found an effective method to entice non-Muslims to fight their battle for them.Some of the things they have accomplished towards their goal

1. Widespread distrust and hatred of Muslims
2. virtual destruction of 2 Islamic Nations Iraq and Afghanistan.
3. Destruction of a central government in Libya, Egypt, Syria and Yemen
4. Widespread belief among non-Muslims that the Qur'an commands evil and needs to be either changed or destroyed

For the Terrorists to succeed in their evil Mission they are depending upon Non-Muslims to help destroy Islam. It does seem many non-Muslims are willing to help them accomplish that.
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