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Old 04-12-2016, 10:37 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 759,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Problem is you think too shallowly.

I stated the whole ideological factor is more threatening than the physical war.

The cartoons by themselves are merely a small part of the ideological element.
The dangers is despite being such a small matter, the cartoons created so much violence around the world. This imply the evil ideology manifesting from those evil laden verses are very dangerous and has high potential for terrible evils to humanity.
I agree. There is no other ideology I know of that requires, or even suggests, violence if cartoons are drawn of a follower or prophet or even the god of that ideology. The closest I can think of is that Scientology sues if certain 'secrets' of the ideology are made public. But many cartoons are drawn of all the ideologies that exist, and none of those ideologies demand or suggest violence.

There is the freedom of speech issue here also. Islam has done an excellent job of making sure any unwanted truth is suppressed by the media or government. Islam even demands political correctness when it comes to discussions. Islam must not be criticised. Political correctness and freedom/individual rights are total opposites. Liberty does not fear or loathe independent thinking. Islam does. People living in the west have not been persuaded into thinking that Islam is a religion of peace.....they have been intimidated into pretending to believe it.

"The purpose of political correction is to delegitimize opposition;
to make the most basic facts of life undiscussable,
and thereby eliminate debate.
It is a device for seizing power." --David Warren
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Old 04-13-2016, 02:23 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,602,849 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
No. I think deeply. That's how I exposed a big hole in your thinking.

You see things with blinkers on. Ideological factor was mocking as right of infidels. It had nothing to do with them but they still decided to meddle with someone else's affair just to mock them. Right of mocking others is Ideological factor worse than physical war.
It has everything to do with Islam and its part of the evil ideology.


The natural sequence would be as follows;

1. Some % of Muslims as with all human are evil prone.
2. The Quran contain many evil laden elements
3. Elements 1 & 2 combine to cause terrible evils and violence around the world.
4. Satirists [as usual and normal] highlighted such significant issues via cartoons.
5. SOME of the evil prone Muslims are offended and are influenced by 2 to go on rampage of evils and violence.

The satirists reacted based on 2 and 3.
If the Quran did not contain evil laden verses, there would be no violence and likely the satirists would not be bothered with Islam. I have not come across satirists making fun of Buddhism, Jainism and other wiser and moral religions. If they have made fun of them, the believers of those religion had not went on a rampage to violence.


Quote:
If I call you kafir, you get offended but if you call me stupid for believing Allah, that's your tight. The net result is a Muslim is always wrong and an infidel always right when mocking the Muslim.

I won't kill anyone who mocks me (I am guided by the Qur'an to move away from the mockers) but that doesn't mean that someone else won't do it. The intelligent thing to do would be not to mock anyone unless you are going to bear the consequences too.
The term "Kafir" is meant to be derogatory from the perspective of the Quran. Why not use 'non-Muslim' instead. In any case you can still do it if you insist [I can still cope with it via psycho-analysis], but you may receive a warning for 'personal' attack.

The term 'stupid' is not a derogatory term when it is applied literally as one who is not applying sufficient intelligence to a point [which I always refer to]. It would be derogatory if used without any literally justifications.

Quote:
Whether it is a small part of the ideological element or central to an ideology, it is still the ideological factor more threatening (according to you as well) than a physical war. Such ideological factor is thus evil laden ideological factor that must be rooted out.
Personally I agree drawings of cartoons as a criticism of a religion should not be condoned and I will not do it.
But the fact is there is a small minority of satirist who will do it.
The main point here is the evidence of the sensitivity of the Muslims and how the evil laden verses in the Quran trigger and inflame that sensitivity.

While the satirical cartoons should not be condoned, what is critical is the evil laden verses in the Quran and the sensitivity of the evil prone Muslims will still exists and manifest upon other triggers, e.g. when temples of non-Muslims are taller than the nearby mosque, the sight of large statues of non-believers and other matters that are condemned by the Quran than drive SOME Muslims to be sensitive to them.

Quote:
And if there had been no cartoons of the kind, the verses would have been harmless. Thus it wasn't the verses but the cartoons as the evil factor causing evil in the word.
Note my sequence 1-5 above.
If there are no evil laden verses in the Quran, there would be no cartoons and thus no violent rampage in response to the cartoons.

Quote:
You are thinking backward. If you push your finger up someone's backside as a joke and he hits you on the nose, the evil act, in your view, would be his hitting you on the nose but your evil laden evil causing joke.
Bad example.
Note the reality of the sequence and root cause in the sequence 1-5 above.
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Old 04-13-2016, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,360,597 times
Reputation: 7408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
It has everything to do with Islam and its part of the evil ideology.


The natural sequence would be as follows;

1. Some % of Muslims as with all human are evil prone.
2. The Quran contain many evil laden elements
3. Elements 1 & 2 combine to cause terrible evils and violence around the world.
4. Satirists [as usual and normal] highlighted such significant issues via cartoons.
5. SOME of the evil prone Muslims are offended and are influenced by 2 to go on rampage of evils and violence.

The satirists reacted based on 2 and 3.
If the Quran did not contain evil laden verses, there would be no violence and likely the satirists would not be bothered with Islam. I have not come across satirists making fun of Buddhism, Jainism and other wiser and moral religions. If they have made fun of them, the believers of those religion had not went on a rampage to violence.


The term "Kafir" is meant to be derogatory from the perspective of the Quran. Why not use 'non-Muslim' instead. In any case you can still do it if you insist [I can still cope with it via psycho-analysis], but you may receive a warning for 'personal' attack.

The term 'stupid' is not a derogatory term when it is applied literally as one who is not applying sufficient intelligence to a point [which I always refer to]. It would be derogatory if used without any literally justifications.

Personally I agree drawings of cartoons as a criticism of a religion should not be condoned and I will not do it.
But the fact is there is a small minority of satirist who will do it.
The main point here is the evidence of the sensitivity of the Muslims and how the evil laden verses in the Quran trigger and inflame that sensitivity.

While the satirical cartoons should not be condoned, what is critical is the evil laden verses in the Quran and the sensitivity of the evil prone Muslims will still exists and manifest upon other triggers, e.g. when temples of non-Muslims are taller than the nearby mosque, the sight of large statues of non-believers and other matters that are condemned by the Quran than drive SOME Muslims to be sensitive to them.

Note my sequence 1-5 above.
If there are no evil laden verses in the Quran, there would be no cartoons and thus no violent rampage in response to the cartoons.

Bad example.
Note the reality of the sequence and root cause in the sequence 1-5 above.
There are other factors involved. Most religions do not experience much violence simply because they are local and of small populations. However, history does contain instances of where explorers violated local taboos among isolated tribes and were killed. Christianity solved this problem by annihilating the opposition in every country Missionaries had the superior force.

You are not going to get many stories of atrocities committed by people of religious faiths other tha Islam and Christianity, simply because they are of statistically insignificant numbers.

But it does exist except not likely to be encountered by most people.

ie: Indian Ocean island is home to Sentinelese community who kill outsiders | Daily Mail Online
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Old 04-13-2016, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,602,849 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
There are other factors involved. Most religions do not experience much violence simply because they are local and of small populations. However, history does contain instances of where explorers violated local taboos among isolated tribes and were killed. Christianity solved this problem by annihilating the opposition in every country Missionaries had the superior force.

You are not going to get many stories of atrocities committed by people of religious faiths other tha Islam and Christianity, simply because they are of statistically insignificant numbers.

But it does exist except not likely to be encountered by most people.

ie: Indian Ocean island is home to Sentinelese community who kill outsiders | Daily Mail Online
DNA wise All humans has the potential to be beasts and human devils.
Conservatively, 20% of all humans have an active tendency to commit evil.
Therefore we can expect all sorts of evils and violence to be committed around the world.

Humanity must address ALL these evils without exception, BUT note this is a forum on 'Islam' and not a general forum.
Thus your above history of evils an violence by explorers, Christian missionaries all the world in the past is nothing special but a mere deflection and intended diversion.

Those evils and violence by Christian missionaries did happen but they were not INSPIRED by their holy texts directly. They did not kill in the name of Jesus. The fact is the killings by Christian missionaries were condemned and at present there are no killings by Christians. If any, it is rare and are not inspired by any
vague commands of Jesus in the NT.

However the problem of Islam [in a big part, not whole] is a very special issue because there are evil laden elements in the Quran [in DUCK-RABBIT scenarios] that influenced and inspired SOME naturally born evil prone Muslim to commit terrible evils and violence around the world. The evidence for this is glaring.
Therefore Islam [in a big part, not whole] is a contributing factor to evils and violence committed by SOME evil prone Muslims in the past, at present and in the future.
This is a fact all Muslims must recognize, and they cannot and should not deny.
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