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Old 03-27-2016, 06:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Your own words are pretty much verification of the point I am making. It is true less than 1% of violent crimes result in Murder. Therefore if you have knowledge of the number of Murders you have in a nation and multiply that by 100 you will have a very good indicator of how many violent crimes actually take place Including the unreported ones. The US has an average of 14,000 Murders per year. Our known number of violent crimes In 2012, was an estimated 1,214,462 Source: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc.../violent-crime
which is very close to 100 times the number of Murders.

Murder is the ultimate completion of a violent crime and occurs in about 1% of violent crimes. If you know the number of Murders in a nation you have a good indicator of the total number of violent crimes that occur. simply multiply the number of Murders by 100
How does this work with the top 7 most violent countries on earth being almost 100% Muslim??
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Old 03-27-2016, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
How does this work with the top 7 most violent countries on earth being almost 100% Muslim??
Look at the source that is claiming them to be the 7 Most violent and how they are defining violent. Virtually every other source finds the Americas to contain some of the the most violent nations.

The Most Violent Cities In The World - Business Insider

The world’s most dangerous country is up to 20 murders a day - Quartz

http://list25.com/25-most-violent-pl...n-the-world/2/

The Most Dangerous Countries for Tourists, in Maps - The Atlantic

The 10 Most Dangerous Places To Live In 2014 - TheRichest

The lists do fluctuate often as wars end in one area and popout in another. But currently drug trafficking seems to be a major cause of violence in areas that are not involved in wars.

Now if one looks at the nations with the highest crime rates the numbers shift dramatically to the Western Nations

Countries With Highest Reported Crime Rates - World Top Ten
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Old 03-27-2016, 08:36 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 753,037 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Look at the source that is claiming them to be the 7 Most violent and how they are defining violent. Virtually every other source finds the Americas to contain some of the the most violent nations.

The Most Violent Cities In The World - Business Insider

The world’s most dangerous country is up to 20 murders a day - Quartz

http://list25.com/25-most-violent-pl...n-the-world/2/

The Most Dangerous Countries for Tourists, in Maps - The Atlantic

The 10 Most Dangerous Places To Live In 2014 - TheRichest

The lists do fluctuate often as wars end in one area and popout in another. But currently drug trafficking seems to be a major cause of violence in areas that are not involved in wars.

Now if one looks at the nations with the highest crime rates the numbers shift dramatically to the Western Nations

Countries With Highest Reported Crime Rates - World Top Ten
"Domestic violence in Pakistan is an endemic social problem. According to a study carried out in 2009 by Human Rights Watch, it is estimated that between 70 and 90 percent of women in Pakistan have suffered some form of abuse.[1] An estimated 5000 women are killed per year from domestic violence, with thousands of others maimed or disabled.[2] The majority of victims of violence have no legal recourse. Law enforcement authorities do not view domestic violence as a crime and usually refuse to register any cases brought to them. Given the very few women's shelters in the country, victims have limited ability to escape from violent situations.[2]" 97% Muslim!!!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domest...ce_in_Pakistan

"Sexual violence is pervasive in much of Somalia. Two decades of civil conflict and state collapse have created a large population of displaced persons and other people vulnerable to sexual violence. At the same time it has destroyed the state institutions that are supposed to protect those most at risk. Armed assailants, including members of state security forces, operating with complete impunity, sexually assault, rape, beat, shoot, and stab women and girls inside camps for the displaced and as they walk to market, tend to their fields, or forage for firewood. Members of Somalia’s long marginalized minority communities are particularly at risk." 100% Muslim!!!!!

https://www.hrw.org/report/2014/02/1...olence-somalia


"Violent crime against women in Afghanistan hit record levels and became increasingly brutal in 2013, the head of the country's human rights commission said this weekend — a sign that hard won rights are being rolled back as foreign troops prepare to withdraw.

Restoring women's rights after the Taliban was ousted by a U.S.-led coalition of troops in 2001 has been frequently cited as one of the objectives of the war. Under Taliban rule, women were required to wear the head-to-toe covering burqa and barred from leaving their homes without being escorted by a male relative. Schools for girls were shut also down.

But advances towards greater freedoms for women in the country have been undermined by a worrying uptick in violence

The United Nations in December reported a 28 percent increase in cases of brutality against women for October 2012 through September 2013. Sima Samar, chair of the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission (AIHRC), told Reuters that the severity of attacks on women had greatly intensified last year.

"The brutality of the cases is really bad. Cutting the nose, lips and ears. Committing public rape," she said.

It is possible that more cases have been reported as women become aware of their rights, but Samar attributed the overall increase in crime to a culture of impunity and the imminent departure of international troops and aid workers, leaving women more exposed to attack." 98 % Muslim!!!!

Violent crime against Afghan women hits record levels, says rights chief | Al Jazeera America

"Walid Barhoon, a UNDP Gender Advisor, stated that domestic violence is common in Yemen, despite the absence of accurate monitoring tools and data.

In a 2012 Interior Ministry report, it was noted that the number of women arrested for killing their husbands had seen a sudden increase. About 50 women between the ages of 25 to 50 were arrested the previous year and domestic violence was identified as one of the major motives for the crimes.

It has also been perceived, as a generality, that domestic violence incidents go underreported. It’s seen as rare for women to file complaints against their husbands, and especially when they have a low level of education and have no means to earn an independent income.

According to a National Women’s Committee (NWC) study, only 5% of women who were the victims of domestic violence proceeded to report the incidents to the police. This can be attributed to several factors." 100% Muslim!!!!
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Old 03-27-2016, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,294,416 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"Domestic violence in Pakistan is an endemic social problem. According to a study carried out in 2009 by Human Rights Watch, it is estimated that between 70 and 90 percent of women in Pakistan have suffered some form of abuse.[1] An estimated 5000 women are killed per year from domestic violence, with thousands of others maimed or disabled.[2] The majority of victims of violence have no legal recourse. Law enforcement authorities do not view domestic violence as a crime and usually refuse to register any cases brought to them. Given the very few women's shelters in the country, victims have limited ability to escape from violent situations.[2]" 97% Muslim!!!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domest...ce_in_Pakistan

"Sexual violence is pervasive in much of Somalia. Two decades of civil conflict and state collapse have created a large population of displaced persons and other people vulnerable to sexual violence. At the same time it has destroyed the state institutions that are supposed to protect those most at risk. Armed assailants, including members of state security forces, operating with complete impunity, sexually assault, rape, beat, shoot, and stab women and girls inside camps for the displaced and as they walk to market, tend to their fields, or forage for firewood. Members of Somalia’s long marginalized minority communities are particularly at risk." 100% Muslim!!!!!

https://www.hrw.org/report/2014/02/1...olence-somalia


"Violent crime against women in Afghanistan hit record levels and became increasingly brutal in 2013, the head of the country's human rights commission said this weekend — a sign that hard won rights are being rolled back as foreign troops prepare to withdraw.

Restoring women's rights after the Taliban was ousted by a U.S.-led coalition of troops in 2001 has been frequently cited as one of the objectives of the war. Under Taliban rule, women were required to wear the head-to-toe covering burqa and barred from leaving their homes without being escorted by a male relative. Schools for girls were shut also down.

But advances towards greater freedoms for women in the country have been undermined by a worrying uptick in violence

The United Nations in December reported a 28 percent increase in cases of brutality against women for October 2012 through September 2013. Sima Samar, chair of the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission (AIHRC), told Reuters that the severity of attacks on women had greatly intensified last year.

"The brutality of the cases is really bad. Cutting the nose, lips and ears. Committing public rape," she said.

It is possible that more cases have been reported as women become aware of their rights, but Samar attributed the overall increase in crime to a culture of impunity and the imminent departure of international troops and aid workers, leaving women more exposed to attack." 98 % Muslim!!!!

Violent crime against Afghan women hits record levels, says rights chief | Al Jazeera America

"Walid Barhoon, a UNDP Gender Advisor, stated that domestic violence is common in Yemen, despite the absence of accurate monitoring tools and data.

In a 2012 Interior Ministry report, it was noted that the number of women arrested for killing their husbands had seen a sudden increase. About 50 women between the ages of 25 to 50 were arrested the previous year and domestic violence was identified as one of the major motives for the crimes.

It has also been perceived, as a generality, that domestic violence incidents go underreported. It’s seen as rare for women to file complaints against their husbands, and especially when they have a low level of education and have no means to earn an independent income.

According to a National Women’s Committee (NWC) study, only 5% of women who were the victims of domestic violence proceeded to report the incidents to the police. This can be attributed to several factors." 100% Muslim!!!!


Is that because they are Muslim or because of National culture Notice that in those same regions the same issues occur among the non-Muslims. However the Mideastern Islamic nations and Pakistan account for barely 25% of the world's Muslims.

The majority of us abhor them, but they still are not at the same level of violence one finds in much of South America, Mexico and even some US cities.

A few examples

Mexican state known for gender-based violence issues emergency alert | World news | The Guardian

Mexico | Women Under Siege Project

Don’t Forget Violence Against Mexican Women

The National Domestic Violence Hotline | Statistics

Domestic Abuse Shelter - A New Beginning
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Old 03-27-2016, 10:47 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 753,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Is that because they are Muslim or because of National culture Notice that in those same regions the same issues occur among the non-Muslims. However the Mideastern Islamic nations and Pakistan account for barely 25% of the world's Muslims.

The majority of us abhor them, but they still are not at the same level of violence one finds in much of South America, Mexico and even some US cities.

A few examples

Mexican state known for gender-based violence issues emergency alert | World news | The Guardian

Mexico | Women Under Siege Project

Don’t Forget Violence Against Mexican Women

The National Domestic Violence Hotline | Statistics

Domestic Abuse Shelter - A New Beginning
Well, Muhammed set an example by raping a 9 year old child, allowing his men to mass rape women (and as far as I can see, he joined in), by selling women, by hitting a child, having women slaughtered, etc. The Quran promotes hitting women and says women are beneath men.

Do you think that the culture has nothing to do with the ideology?

We also have this:

Germany: Merkel Muslim crimes increased by 79% in 2015, or 208,344 incidents

Sweden: 77% of rapes committed by 2% Muslim male population – Gov data

UK Muslim survey: 76% of prominent Muslims ‘strongly’ support Jihad

UK: Muslims fill 44% of high security prisons, out of a 5% Muslim population

Denmark: Muslim men most likely to be criminals – Report

Germany: Muslim ‘Migrants’ Swell Crime by 65%

Germany: Public is kept in the dark about Muslim migrant crime wave – Association of Criminal Police

Asylum reality: One in three African men admit to rape, survey finds

Denmark ‘astonished’ at 1,000% Muslim Somali majority crime numbers

One in every 20 Muslim women in London borough have been a victim of female genital mutilation

Islamic Sweden is now the world’s second largest rape nation with a 1,472% increase in rapes

Saudi Arabia: 87% of males blame women for sexual assault – Survey

Denmark: 90% of applicants for economic help to celebrate Christmas are Muslim – Fraud report

Palestine: 80% support unprovoked lone-wolf terror attacks – poll

Last edited by juju33312; 03-27-2016 at 10:55 PM..
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Old 03-27-2016, 11:45 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Whether it is 1% yellowness or 99% yellowness, it is still yellowness. The same way Muslim_ness is, regardless of the number of deeds, is still Muslim_ness. There is no percentage in the fact of being Muslim. One is either Muslim or not a Muslim.

Jewishness is fact of being Jewish. You will see that the Jewish people still call themselves Jewish (by birth) even if they do not comply with the Torah.

It is still madness.

You are not talking here of fact of being mad but "degree of madness".

I certainly get your intention and your meaning of what you perceive to be Muslim_ness but the true Muslim_ness is still the FACT OF BEING MUSLIM.
The problem is "faith" [strong] by default always induced believers to be blind.

As I stated there is always the loose and serious form for any variable.
Yes, 1% yellowness and 99% is still yellowness but that is in the loose form.

Where it matters and is critical, we cannot use the loose form but have to refer to the serious form.
Let take 100% 'grey' which is 50% black and 50% white.
In the range of grey, 1% blackness is 99% whiteness [Duck-Rabbit scenario].
In a serious term 1% blackness cannot be "blackness" in the normal sense because 1% blackness is 99% whiteness.

There is no percentage in anything if we do not compute the percentage.
Percentages are computed to facilitate some sort of utility.
Injecting a patient with the wrong concentration, i.e. % of certain medicine could kill a patient.
This principle is critical in many other aspects of human life.

Thus is it critical to determine the percentage of Muslim_ness to promote effectiveness.
Many Muslims do not use % of Muslim_ness but they do it intuitively by obeying more of Allah's command to the best of their ability.
As I said there is a difference between some one praying 4,000/90,000 throughout his whole life compared to one who has prayed 75,000/90,000 times.
It is the same for obeying the other commands of Allah, the higher the percentage the better and truer the person is a Muslims, thus Muslim_ness.

The above is an objective approach which is much better than a subjective approach based on hope, trial and errors, trying one best without system, etc.

Quote:
Anyone who has learnt something whether through experience or from just one verse of the Qur'an is able to be educated.
Again you lost your intellectual sense.
A student don't get educated by learning one paragraph from his history book.
Educated meant learning something that is wholesome, i.e. the full picture in complete or partial form.
There are a lots of students who attended schools for 10 years and they don't get educated properly.
It is the same with religions, there will be some hardcores who will not be educated because they are born that way or their brain is damaged in some ways.

Quote:
They did not become hardcore without learning something nor were they born hardcore. They were educated somehow to become hardcore . They can be educated better the same way to become different.
Again you missed the point.
Do you understand the issue of 'Nature versus Nurture."
I am referring those who are hardcore because of 'Nature' and not 'Nurture.'

It is possible for one to be influenced by 'nurture' to be evil but if his 'nature' is not the critical factor, we don't classify such a person as hardcore.
'Hardcore' refer to 'hardwired' in the brain to be evil.

Quote:
If they can learn from some verses of the Qur'an then it would a failure of humanity, if humanity can't teach them either its own way or by using the other verses of the Qur'an..
As I stated there is a natural percentage of humans who will not be able to be educated regardless of how much education efforts were put into them.
This is why it is critical there should not be any evil elements especially in holy texts that will trigger these uneducated evil prone to commit evils and violence.

Quote:
There is no need to edit the Qur'an. There is need to understand it better.
Obviously as a Muslim you will not agree the Quran need to be edited. In any case Allah will not allow it.

However from an objective point of view for the ultimate good of humanity, a source that contribute to evils and violence should be censored.
This is what is being done with movies, computer games, and other media where censorship and warnings are given to avoid such evil elements influencing vulnerable children and adults to commit evils and violence. Such preventive steps are very normal.

Objectively, the Quran has evil laden elements that influenced and inspired SOME Muslims who are evil prone to commit evils and violence.
Therefore the objective solution is to edit out the evil laden elements to prevent Quran-inspired evils.

The problem is religion is subjective and thus cannot apply objective solutions.
Because objective solutions [preferred] cannot be applied, the Quran will continue to influence and inspire the naturally born evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence.

So humanity is caught in a catch-22 situation.
1. Quran in part contribute to evils and violence via its evil laden elements by evil prone Muslims.
2. But the Quran cannot be edited to get rid of the evil laden elements to prevent evils.
3. The majority of Muslims will not agree the Quran can be edited.
4. The evil prone Muslims are born that way and cannot be changed easily.
5. Therefore the evil prone Muslims will continue to commit evil and violence forever.

From the above listing one will note ALL Muslims are indirectly complicit to the terrible evils committed by SOME Muslims who are evil prone. This is because they do not agree collectively to edit out the evil laden elements in the Quran due to their subjective belief.


Quote:
22:58-59 are not the only verses in the Qur'an. These verses are telling us that those who migrated because of their religion (in Allah's way) and then were slain and died, will go to paradise. Although the verses are about the people who had migrated then were murdered because of their religion, the principle still applies that if I were persecuted because of being a Muslim and was forced to migrate, and then killed by the same people, I too would go to paradise as a martyr.
That is my point.
It is a generic principle.

This is why many Muslims are migrating to Syria and elsewhere to fight non-Muslims and hypocrites who a threat to Islam.
The motivation is they will be martyrs and this is the quickest and most rewarding strategy to reach Paradise as sanctioned by Allah in the Quran.
When these Muslims who want to be martyrs migrate to fight non-Muslims they realized these non-Muslims are commanded from their home countries. So Al-Qaeda attack the home country [USA -911] of Americans fighting in Afghanistan, ISIS in Paris, Brussels and elsewhere.

Quote:
That is not "in general" but in specific cases. 60:9 rejects your "in general" view.
60:9 is a specific view and one-off.
The overall context of the Quran is Muslims should not befriend disbelievers and extending to all non-Muslims. This is repeated in many verses and 3000+ verses that contain contempt directed at the infidels all over the Quran.

Note 60:4 represent the general attitude towards infidels since the day of Abraham,
60:4 [part] ...
We [Muslims] have done with you [infidels]. And there hath arisen between us [Muslims] and you [infidels] hostility and hate for ever until ye [infidels] believe in Allah, ...
The above principle of unfriendliness is directed to those who are not Muslims.

In practice many Muslims will befriend non-Muslims but they are doing it as good friendly human beings not based on the command of the Quran. There are no specific verses in the Quran to befriend non-Muslims unconditionally.

Last edited by Continuum; 03-27-2016 at 11:55 PM..
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Old 03-28-2016, 03:02 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,040,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
A student don't get educated by learning one paragraph from his history book. Educated meant learning something that is wholesome, i.e. the full picture in complete or partial form.
That's why some people do not understand the Qur'an when they rely on only some verses, and not the whole Qur'an.

Quote:
There are a lots of students who attended schools for 10 years and they don't get educated properly.
It is the same with religions, there will be some hardcores who will not be educated because they are born that way or their brain is damaged in some ways.
Then no point in blaming the Qur'an for the hardcore not being able to learn it!

Quote:
Do you understand the issue of 'Nature versus Nurture."
I am referring those who are hardcore because of 'Nature' and not 'Nurture.'
You are contradicting yourself here about the hardcore being influenced by what they have learnt.

Quote:
It is possible for one to be influenced by 'nurture' to be evil but if his 'nature' is not the critical factor, we don't classify such a person as hardcore.
'Hardcore' refer to 'hardwired' in the brain to be evil.
You contradict yourself once more. The hardcore were not hardcore when they learnt from some verses.

Quote:
As I stated there is a natural percentage of humans who will not be able to be educated regardless of how much education efforts were put into them.
You contradict yourself once more. The hardcore could not have been influenced by the verses in the Qur'an. Their wires are crossed creating short circuit.

Quote:
This is why it is critical there should not be any evil elements especially in holy texts that will trigger these uneducated evil prone to commit evils and violence.
You contradict yourself once more. The hardcore cannot be educated by the verses of the Qur'an. They can't learn so they can't be influenced. Anyone who can be influenced can be educated.

Quote:
Obviously as a Muslim you will not agree the Quran need to be edited. In any case Allah will not allow it.
It's because Allah is always correct.

Quote:
However from an objective point of view for the ultimate good of humanity, a source that contribute to evils and violence should be censored.
That source is not the Qur'an but waging war in the Middle East.

Quote:
Objectively, the Quran has evil laden elements that influenced and inspired SOME Muslims who are evil prone to commit evils and violence.
If they can be influenced they can be educated. If they can't be educated because they are hardcore then no point in blaming any verses of the Qur'an.

Quote:
Therefore the objective solution is to edit out the evil laden elements to prevent Quran-inspired evils.
The Qur'an can't inspire the hardcore; their wires are crossed. Don't forget the objective solution !

Quote:
So humanity is caught in a catch-22 situation.
1. Quran in part contribute to evils and violence via its evil laden elements by evil prone Muslims.
2. But the Quran cannot be edited to get rid of the evil laden elements to prevent evils.
3. The majority of Muslims will not agree the Quran can be edited.
4. The evil prone Muslims are born that way and cannot be changed easily.
5. Therefore the evil prone Muslims will continue to commit evil and violence forever.
Why are you blaming the verses of the Qur'an when the hardcore are born with their wires crossed?

Quote:
From the above listing one will note ALL Muslims are indirectly complicit to the terrible evils committed by SOME Muslims who are evil prone. This is because they do not agree collectively to edit out the evil laden elements in the Quran due to their subjective belief.
That is the view of the terrorists, that all Westerners are indirectly complicit to the evil attacks on Iraq, Afghanistan and on Palestinians.

Quote:
60:9 is a specific view and one-off.
The overall context of the Quran is Muslims should not befriend disbelievers and extending to all non-Muslims. This is repeated in many verses and 3000+ verses that contain contempt directed at the infidels all over the Quran.
60:9 is there as preemptive strike of Allah on unbelievers who would blame other verses. Now you want to ignore 60:9. Sorry, even that verse can't be edited.

Quote:
Note 60:4 represent the general attitude towards infidels since the day of Abraham,
60:4 [part] ...
We [Muslims] have done with you [infidels]. And there hath arisen between us [Muslims] and you [infidels] hostility and hate for ever until ye [infidels] believe in Allah, ...
You were dishonest in chopping this verse so much to present your silly view.

Quote:
In practice many Muslims will befriend non-Muslims but they are doing it as good friendly human beings not based on the command of the Quran.
They are being Muhsineen; being good human beings. Being good humans is very much based on the Qur'anic education. Didn't you ask about Muhsineen in another thread?
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Old 03-28-2016, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,294,416 times
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Question why is there more violence among the Drug Cartels than even among ISIS when the Cartel Members are not Muslim and do not read the Qur'an.

LiveLeak.com - Redefining the Media
Quote:
Everyday news, here in the United States, demands urgency on issues such as the global economy. Yet, mention little-to-nothing of the violent and blood-thirsty drug war going on the other side of the borders. According to the United Nations, the Mexican Government sources, and the Iraq Body Count website, slightly more than 103,000 died in Afghanistan and Iraq combined, while in Mexico there were 164,000 victims of homicide registered over the same seven-year period (2007-2014) (Breslow, 2015). In 2010, more people died in the city of Juarez, Mexico because of the drug war than in the entire territory of Afghanistan the same year (Mora, 2010). The war going on in Mexico is very real, and it is not well acknowledged. How far does it need to go to become alarming? How many lives does it need to cause in order to get its due attention?

https://danielagomezbrana.wordpress....f-its-own-war/
This is not redirection it is a fair question. If the Qur'an is such a powerful influence for violence, one should be able to show a measurable decrease of violence in Nations where the Qur'an is virtually unknown.
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Old 03-29-2016, 01:29 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,586,785 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
That's why some people do not understand the Qur'an when they rely on only some verses, and not the whole Qur'an.
You are contradicting yourself, for you stated the following;

Khalif: Anyone who has learnt something whether through experience or from just one verse of the Qur'an is able to be educated.

Now you say they must rely on the whole Quran.

Quote:
Then no point in blaming the Qur'an for the hardcore not being able to learn it!

You are contradicting yourself here about the hardcore being influenced by what they have learnt.

You contradict yourself once more. The hardcore were not hardcore when they learnt from some verses.

You contradict yourself once more. The hardcore could not have been influenced by the verses in the Qur'an. Their wires are crossed creating short circuit.

You contradict yourself once more. The hardcore cannot be educated by the verses of the Qur'an. They can't learn so they can't be influenced. Anyone who can be influenced can be educated.
One way to check and confirm the Quran [in part] contribute to influence the hardcore is to compare with other religions.

Example, there are hardcore evil prone Buddhists, but there are no hardcore Buddhists who justify their violence from the texts of the Buddhist sutras or the Buddha. Why? because the Buddhists are wiser religious people who understand human nature, so they make it a point not to include any leading evil elements that will trigger any evil prone Buddhist to commit evils and violence.

The mistake of the Quran and its liability to humanity is the Quran include and contains large amounts of evil laden elements that influenced and inspired SOME Muslims who are evil prone to commit terrible evils and violence. The proof of this point is glaringly evident from what is happening in reality in the past, present and continue into the future.
The reason is the Quran was authored by human[s] with martial and aggressive behaviors.

Here is one example amongst the many;
Bouyeri had told the court he had acted out of religious conviction.
Clutching a copy of the Koran, he said that "the law compels me to chop off the head of anyone who insults Allah and the prophet".
BBC NEWS | Europe | Van Gogh killer jailed for life
Quote:
It's because Allah is always correct.
There is not proof Allah exists.
The Allah claimed to have recited the Quran to Muhammad via Gabriel made a lots of contradictions and falsehood in the texts of the Quran.
Here are examples;
Contradictions in the Qur'an - WikiIslam


Quote:
If they can be influenced they can be educated. If they can't be educated because they are hardcore then no point in blaming any verses of the Qur'an.

The Qur'an can't inspire the hardcore; their wires are crossed. Don't forget the objective solution !

Why are you blaming the verses of the Qur'an when the hardcore are born with their wires crossed?
I am blaming the Quran or rather the human[s] who compiled the Quran for being ignorant of human nature.
There will always be a percentage of hardcore evil prone humans, i.e. 300 million evil prone Muslims.
These naturally born evil prone Muslims will be influenced by evil laden verses.
Any wise humans would be aware of the above facts and would never include evil laden elements in any main religious texts.
In the secular scene, wise people had prevented evil and violent materials to be included in movies, computer games, and other media sources to ensure the vulnerable adults an children are not exposed to such evil laden materials.

Quote:
60:9 is there as preemptive strike of Allah on unbelievers who would blame other verses. Now you want to ignore 60:9. Sorry, even that verse can't be edited.
I am not ignoring 60:9 but stated it is a one-off case like a needle in a haystack amongst the thousands of verses with negative evil laden elements directed at the non-Muslims. I suggest you read the Quran at least 50 times [with open mind and objectively] to understand the truth of the matter.

Quote:
You were dishonest in chopping this verse so much to present your silly view.
There is no dishonesty here. It is a matter of efficiency and if you can always check the full verse since I included the verse reference and did not hide it.

Quote:
They are being Muhsineen; being good human beings. Being good humans is very much based on the Qur'anic education. Didn't you ask about Muhsineen in another thread?
There is a big difference between being a good and truer Muslim and being a good human being.
Example a perfect model of being a Nazi is not being a good human being.

1. Being a good Mushin meant being a Muslim and Mu'min who had complied fully with the commands and whatever is required in the Quran.
2. The Quran in reality contain a large number of evil laden elements.
3. Therefore being a Mushin, one will inevitably has to comply 100% with the Quran, thus including the evil laden commands therein which made the Mushin a partly evil person.
Get the logic?
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Old 03-29-2016, 02:04 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,040,723 times
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Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
You are contradicting yourself, for you stated the following;

Khalif: Anyone who has learnt something whether through experience or from just one verse of the Qur'an is able to be educated.

Now you say they must rely on the whole Quran.
What's matter with you? You are all over the place.

You, just like the hardcore, take verses out of context and ignore the rest of the Qur'an if it does not fit in with your idealogy. The point I made is the same; they can learn more ftom the whole Qur'an and need to use the whole Qur'an.
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