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Old 04-13-2016, 02:52 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,588,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
That can't be true unless there was no problem for humanity before Islam published its text.
Your problem solving technique is too weak and shallow.

In my master project I deal with ALL evils within humanity.

All evils can be categorized as

1. Secular evils

2. Religious associated evils
.....(i) religious related evils
.....(ii) religion inspired evils.

Before there was any religion [main] there were no religious associated evils.

When religions emerged the 20% of evil prone committed evils which are associated with the religion.

But these religious associated evils were merely related to the religions and not inspired by the holy texts of the religion. As I had argued for Buddhism, the evil prone Buddhists did commit violence but that is due to their own human nature and not because of Buddhism and its sutras [texts].

Then when Islam emerged we have evil prone Muslims who commit violence based on their own evil nature which has nothing to do the Quran.
BUT there is a percentage of evil prone Muslims who are influenced and inspired by the DUCK-RABBIT scenario in the Quran to commit terrible evils and violence. The evidence for this is obvious as those who commit evil and violence justify them by verses from the Quran.

Here are the glaring evidence as listed in this statistics;
28,000++ incidents with fatalities committed by Jihadists since 911.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Note there are other listing of evil and violence without fatalities which are committed around the world, e.g.
The shooting of Malala on the basis the Taliban are against Western education.
The kidnap of 200++ girls by Boko Haram in Nigeria.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
To show that the Qur'an inspires violence a person has to show that violence increased among the Arabs after they accepted Islam.
Note my point above.

As for the Arabs note the imperialism of Islamists from Spain to China and the terrible evils and violence that resulted in the conquered lands.
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Old 04-13-2016, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Your problem solving technique is too weak and shallow.

In my master project I deal with ALL evils within humanity.

All evils can be categorized as

1. Secular evils

2. Religious associated evils
.....(i) religious related evils
.....(ii) religion inspired evils.

Before there was any religion [main] there were no religious associated evils.

When religions emerged the 20% of evil prone committed evils which are associated with the religion.

But these religious associated evils were merely related to the religions and not inspired by the holy texts of the religion. As I had argued for Buddhism, the evil prone Buddhists did commit violence but that is due to their own human nature and not because of Buddhism and its sutras [texts].

Then when Islam emerged we have evil prone Muslims who commit violence based on their own evil nature which has nothing to do the Quran.
BUT there is a percentage of evil prone Muslims who are influenced and inspired by the DUCK-RABBIT scenario in the Quran to commit terrible evils and violence. The evidence for this is obvious as those who commit evil and violence justify them by verses from the Quran.

Here are the glaring evidence as listed in this statistics;
28,000++ incidents with fatalities committed by Jihadists since 911.
Islam: The Politically Incorrect Truth

Note there are other listing of evil and violence without fatalities which are committed around the world, e.g.
The shooting of Malala on the basis the Taliban are against Western education.
The kidnap of 200++ girls by Boko Haram in Nigeria.

Note my point above.

As for the Arabs note the imperialism of Islamists from Spain to China and the terrible evils and violence that resulted in the conquered lands.
Quote:
Here are the glaring evidence as listed in this statistics;
28,000++ incidents with fatalities committed by Jihadists since 911.
Islam: The Politically Incorrect Truth
28,000 is a very low figure for a potential population of 1.5 billion over a 15 year period. Low enough that is not statistically significant to show that the Qur'an has any impact upon violence by Muslims. Looking at it as reflecting less than 2,000 acts per year it is less than .00001% of the world's Muslims being allegedly influenced to do evil by verses in the Qur'an. Much too low of a percentage to indicate probable causation. To show a probable relationship we would have to use your 20% which would mean 300,000,000 evil prone people each years susceptible to being influenced by "Evil laden" verses. Because of the seriousness of this it would be fair to assign a very low percentage of significance. say as low as .01 Which would give us 30,000 Qur'an influenced acts EVERY YEAR

That 28,000acts over a 15 year period is a very strong indication that the Qur'an is not a significant cause of violence--Even if every one of them was related to misinterpretation of the Qur'an.Muslims never conquered Spain. There was no Spain until 1469. Al-Andulus was a Moorish colony in the Southern Iberian Peninsula until conquered by the Castillians which were invaders of the north. But Spain remained 2 different nations until 1469 19 October Isabella I of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon were married, laying the foundation for the unification of the kingdoms of Castile and Aragon into Spain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...panish_history

Muslims never conqured China although there were Muslims in China dating back to the time of Muhammad(saws) but at no time were they ever a contoling element and until the 1800s lived in considerable peace.

There were never any Muslim conquests as it was the people converting to Islam that spread Islam not invaders conquering the Nation. Muslims did very little if any occupation of other nations.
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Old 04-13-2016, 04:52 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,042,053 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Your problem solving technique is too weak and shallow.

In my master project I deal with ALL evils within humanity.

All evils can be categorized as

1. Secular evils

2. Religious associated evils
.....(i) religious related evils
.....(ii) religion inspired evils.

Before there was any religion [main] there were no religious associated evils.
You are talking here like a little child.

How could there be any religious assosiated evils before any religion?

Quote:
When religions emerged the 20% of evil prone committed evils which are associated with the religion.
Let's do some math here:
According to you, 20% of all humans are evil prone. 20% of the secular people are evil prone. 20% of the Muslims are evil prone. As the secular people have lived on earth long before religion came, religion hasn't increased the evil prone, which means there is nothing in religion that is evil laden.
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Old 04-14-2016, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,588,113 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
28,000 is a very low figure for a potential population of 1.5 billion over a 15 year period.
Low enough that is not statistically significant to show that the Qur'an has any impact upon violence by Muslims. Looking at it as reflecting less than 2,000 acts per year it is less than .00001% of the world's Muslims being allegedly influenced to do evil by verses in the Qur'an. Much too low of a percentage to indicate probable causation. To show a probable relationship we would have to use your 20% which would mean 300,000,000 evil prone people each years susceptible to being influenced by "Evil laden" verses. Because of the seriousness of this it would be fair to assign a very low percentage of significance. say as low as .01 Which would give us 30,000 Qur'an influenced acts EVERY YEAR

That 28,000acts over a 15 year period is a very strong indication that the Qur'an is not a significant cause of violence.
28,000 is a low figure??
This indicate you have very low moral sense and conscience.
Even if there is one incident, it should be of concern to anybody to understand the root causes.
If the average number of deaths is 10 per incidents, that is 280,000 deaths since 911.

Low significance??
Note even two later incidents in Paris and Brussels are so significant to draw the attention of all the leaders in the world to be of concern.
I believe you do not read the News regularly to get a sense of the criticalness and concern by the whole world regarding the evils of Quran-inspired evils and violence.

In addition to the 28,000++, what is most concern is the problem is potentially worst in the future, especially when these terrorists get access to cheaply available Weapons of Mass Destruction [nuclear, biological, chemical etc.].

As a comparison, how many incidents that involved deaths are due to other religion since 911.

Quote:
That 28,000 acts over a 15 year period is a very strong indication that the Qur'an is not a significant cause of violence
--Even if every one of them was related to misinterpretation of the Qur'an. Muslims never conquered Spain. There was no Spain until 1469. Al-Andulus was a Moorish colony in the Southern Iberian Peninsula until conquered by the Castillians which were invaders of the north. But Spain remained 2 different nations until 1469 19 October Isabella I of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon were married, laying the foundation for the unification of the kingdoms of Castile and Aragon into Spain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...panish_history

Muslims never conqured China although there were Muslims in China dating back to the time of Muhammad(saws) but at no time were they ever a contoling element and until the 1800s lived in considerable peace.

There were never any Muslim conquests as it was the people converting to Islam that spread Islam not invaders conquering the Nation. Muslims did very little if any occupation of other nations.
You got it wrong with China, note what happened in the borders of China,
Muslim rule over Transoxania was consolidated a decade later when a Chinese-led army was defeated at the Battle of Talas,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_...73.E2.80.93751
The point here is the early Muslims were motivated by the martial and imperialistic ethos of Muhammad and inevitably what followed were the terrible evils and violence [mass rapes, genocides, slavery, war booties, snatching of land, etc.] committed by SOME evil prone Muslims who were influenced and inspired by the evil laden verses in the Quran.
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Old 04-14-2016, 01:06 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,588,113 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
You are talking here like a little child.
How could there be any religious assosiated evils before any religion?
As I mentioned you are desperate to condemn my views all the time without understanding what I had posted.

Here is what I posted earlier;
When religions emerged the 20% of evil prone committed evils which are associated with the religion.
Al-Muttagin

Did you read the above statement?

It has happened many times where you take cheap shots at me without basis and not reading what I have written.

Quote:
Let's do some math here:
According to you, 20% of all humans are evil prone.
20% of the secular people are evil prone.
20% of the Muslims are evil prone.
As the secular people have lived on earth long before religion came, religion hasn't increased the evil prone, which means there is nothing in religion that is evil laden.
Again you are bad at applied mathematics.

Yes there was no increase in the 20% of evil prone humans.
However there was a new type of evils, i.e. religious associated evils and later religion-inspired evils via Islam.

Say there are 5 billions human on Earth then.
Thus there are 20%, i.e. 1 billion evil prone humans.
But you need to understand not every one of the 20% commit evils and violence.
Say only 30% [300 million] actually committed evils and violence.
When religions were introduced some from the 70% who did not commit evil before are then influenced by the religion to commit evil.

In addition those who are evil prone earlier would convert to Islam and justify their evils and having a good excuse to do evil in the name of Allah.

Now the fact is there are evil laden verses in the Quran which contain words that are specifically related to evil [as defined].

Example;
"You cannot fight and kill unless ...."
"Muslims are permitted to fight and kill if ..."
are loaded with an evil potentials.
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Old 04-14-2016, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
28,000 is a low figure??
This indicate you have very low moral sense and conscience.
Even if there is one incident, it should be of concern to anybody to understand the root causes.
If the average number of deaths is 10 per incidents, that is 280,000 deaths since 911.

Low significance??
Note even two later incidents in Paris and Brussels are so significant to draw the attention of all the leaders in the world to be of concern.
I believe you do not read the News regularly to get a sense of the criticalness and concern by the whole world regarding the evils of Quran-inspired evils and violence.

In addition to the 28,000++, what is most concern is the problem is potentially worst in the future, especially when these terrorists get access to cheaply available Weapons of Mass Destruction [nuclear, biological, chemical etc.].

As a comparison, how many incidents that involved deaths are due to other religion since 911.


You got it wrong with China, note what happened in the borders of China,
Muslim rule over Transoxania was consolidated a decade later when a Chinese-led army was defeated at the Battle of Talas,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_...73.E2.80.93751
The point here is the early Muslims were motivated by the martial and imperialistic ethos of Muhammad and inevitably what followed were the terrible evils and violence [mass rapes, genocides, slavery, war booties, snatching of land, etc.] committed by SOME evil prone Muslims who were influenced and inspired by the evil laden verses in the Quran.
I am speaking of numbers being low or insignificant in terms of statistics. The numbers are too low to claim causation. With an pool of 300,000,000 violence prone people, less than 2,000 of acts attributed Islam per year is too low to show causation. That is even much lower than what would be expected from a General population of 300,000,000 in terms of violence. Every death is of significance in terms of Human compassion but not in terms of mathematics. Significance there is reference to a mathematical function, not to a concept of Humanity.

As for your link,if you go to the referenced link within the article and read about the "Battle of Talas"

Quote:
The Battle of Talas, Battle of Talas River, or Battle of Artlakh (Chinese: 怛羅斯會戰; Arabic: معركة نهر طلاس‎) was a military engagement between the Arab Abbasid Caliphate along with their ally the Tibetan Empire against the Chinese Tang Dynasty, governed at the time by Emperor Xuanzong. In July 751 AD, Tang and Abbasid forces met in the valley of the Talas River to vie for control of the Syr Darya region of central Asia. After a stalemate in several days of combat, the Tang lost the battle because the Karluks defected from the Tang side to the Abbasid side. The battle was a defeat for the Tang and marked the end of their westward territorial expansion, resulting in Muslim control of Transoxiana for the next four hundred years. Control of this region was economically beneficial for the Abbasids because it was on the Silk Road. Supposedly, Chinese prisoners captured in the aftermath of the battle brought paper-making technology to the Middle East, from which it eventually spread to Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Talas
Where is there any indication of an invasion by Muslims? While it is true the population did accept Islam,no where is there any indication it was because they were invaded by Muslims. What you had was an attempted invasion by the Tangs.
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Last edited by Woodrow LI; 04-14-2016 at 08:45 AM..
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Old 04-14-2016, 05:12 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,042,053 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
As I mentioned you are desperate to condemn my views all the time without understanding what I had posted.

Here is what I posted earlier;
When religions emerged the 20% of evil prone committed evils which are associated with the religion.
Al-Muttagin

Did you read the above statement?

It has happened many times where you take cheap shots at me without basis and not reading what I have written.

Again you are bad at applied mathematics.
I can safely say that you are either not good at applied mathematics or your 20% of humsns being evil prone is nonsense.

Quote:
Yes there was no increase in the 20% of evil prone humans.
However there was a new type of evils, i.e. religious associated evils and later religion-inspired evils via Islam.
Then how did the figure for evil prone humans stayed at 20% with introduction of evil laden verses?

Quote:
Say there are 5 billions human on Earth then.
Thus there are 20%, i.e. 1 billion evil prone humans.
But you need to understand not every one of the 20% commit evils and violence.
That means the 20% figure is wrong. If some of them do not commit evils and violence then they are not evil prone and the figure must come down from 20%.

Quote:
Say only 30% [300 million] actually committed evils and violence.
When religions were introduced some from the 70% who did not commit evil before are then influenced by the religion to commit evil.
LOL!

That makes more than 30% of humans to be evil prone after being influenced by the religion..

Quote:
In addition those who are evil prone earlier would convert to Islam and justify their evils and having a good excuse to do evil in the name of Allah.
That makes 40% of Muslims to be evil prone.

Sorry mate, you have been wrong all along about 20% figure. It should have been 100% evil prone humans of which some do not commit evil and violence.
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Old 04-15-2016, 12:20 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,588,113 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I am speaking of numbers being low or insignificant in terms of statistics. The numbers are too low to claim causation. With an pool of 300,000,000 violence prone people, less than 2,000 of acts attributed Islam per year is too low to show causation. That is even much lower than what would be expected from a General population of 300,000,000 in terms of violence. Every death is of significance in terms of Human compassion but not in terms of mathematics. Significance there is reference to a mathematical function, not to a concept of Humanity.
Mathematics is not significant nor relevant for the moral issue in this case.
Note the Quran's 5:32 killing of just one is as if killing the whole of mankind.
So 2,000 times of 5:32 is very significant.
28,000++ is sickening and terribly evil.

If your concern is causation, there is so much evidence where the jihadists are quoting from the Quran to support their killings.

Btw, the 28,000++ incidents with fatalities [because this listing is easily available] is merely one category of evils, there are a wide range of evils and violence committed by SOME evil prone Muslims around the world.

Quote:
As for your link,if you go to the referenced link within the article and read about the "Battle of Talas"
Where is there any indication of an invasion by Muslims? While it is true the population did accept Islam,no where is there any indication it was because they were invaded by Muslims. What you had was an attempted invasion by the Tangs.
This is not a significant point. The reality is the imperialism by Islamists did happened and what is more significant is what happened in terms of terrible evils and violence in India and elsewhere.
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Old 04-15-2016, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Mathematics is not significant nor relevant for the moral issue in this case.
Note the Quran's 5:32 killing of just one is as if killing the whole of mankind.
So 2,000 times of 5:32 is very significant.
28,000++ is sickening and terribly evil.

If your concern is causation, there is so much evidence where the jihadists are quoting from the Quran to support their killings.

Btw, the 28,000++ incidents with fatalities [because this listing is easily available] is merely one category of evils, there are a wide range of evils and violence committed by SOME evil prone Muslims around the world.

This is not a significant point. The reality is the imperialism by Islamists did happened and what is more significant is what happened in terms of terrible evils and violence in India and elsewhere.
Where was the imperialism at Talas. You basically had a resting area used by Muslims on their trade route with China. It was attacked by the Tangs in their attempt to expand Westward.
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