U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-09-2016, 02:18 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,580,662 times
Reputation: 461

Advertisements

56:10 Waalssabiqoona alssabiqoona
Here are 30++ English Translations of 56:10
Quote:
Muhammad Asad But the foremost shall be [they who in life were] the foremost [in faith and good works]:
M. M. Pickthall And the foremost in the race, the foremost in the race:
Shakir And the foremost are the foremost,
Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985) And those Foremost (in Faith) will be Foremost (in the Hereafter).
Yusuf Ali (Orig. 1938) And those Foremost (in Faith) will be Foremost (in the Hereafter).
Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar Ones who take the lead are the ones who take the lead.
Wahiduddin Khan The third to the fore shall be the foremost.
T.B.Irving and the Pioneers will be out there leading!
Safi Kaskas And those who are ahead upfront,
[Al-Muntakhab] And above all, a position, that is foremost, which of right belongs to those who were gifted with the Divine prerogative of prophethood and apostleship and also to those who before all others had surrendered to Allah's authority and preceded all others in applying their hearts to wisdom and piety with breasts filled with reverential awe and Allah's purpose was the heart of their purpose.
[The Monotheist Group] (2011 Edition) And those foremost, who will be from those foremost
Abdel Haleem And those in front––ahead indeed!
Abdul Majid Daryabadi And the preceders are the pre-ceders.
Ahmed Ali Then the foremost, how pre-excellent,
Aisha Bewley and the Forerunners, the Forerunners.
Ali Ünal And the foremost (in faith and good deeds, and serving God’s cause) will be the foremost (in receiving and enjoying God’s mercy).
Ali Quli Qara'i And the Foremost Ones are the foremost ones:
Hamid S. Aziz And those foremost (in faith) will be the foremost (in the Hereafter),
Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali And the Outstrippers, (i.e., those who precede others) the Outstrippers-
Muhammad Sarwar The foremost ones (in faith and virtue) - the foremost ones in receiving their reward.
Muhammad Taqi Usmani And the Foremost are the foremost.
Shabbir Ahmed And (thirdly) the foremost are the foremost! (Those who led the race in doing good (55:63), (57:10)).
Syed Vickar Ahamed And those foremost (in Faith) will be foremost (in the Hereafter).
Umm Muhammad (Sahih International) And the forerunners, the forerunners -
Farook Malik and foremost shall be the foremost.
Dr. Munir Munshey (But of course), the foremost (in righteousness, those who exceeded and excelled) would be the foremost (in honor).
Dr. Mohammad Tahir-ul-Qadri And (third) the Excellent; (they) are the Foremost.
Dr. Kamal Omar And the Foremost (are on the) Foremost (Site).
Talal A. Itani (new translation) And the forerunners, the forerunners.
Bilal Muhammad (2013 Edition) And those foremost, will be foremost.
Maududi As for the Foremost, they will be the foremost!
Ali Bakhtiari Nejad And the pioneers (in devotion) are the pioneers (in the hereafter).
[The Monotheist Group] (2013 Edition) And those foremost, who will be from those foremost?
Mohammad Shafi And those in the front those will be in the front!
Foremost =first in place, order, rank, etc.:
Foremost | Define Foremost at Dictionary.com

From the term 'foremost' verse 56:10 implied there is a competition [friendly but not in the strict sense] and Muslims are exhorted to vie with one another to be the foremost.

Agree?
If disagree, what are your views?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-09-2016, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,272,269 times
Reputation: 7407
However if one reads the entire surah they should realize that what is be spoken of is tll people will be divided into 3 groups and the Muslims will be the foremost group.

Quote:
Theme and Subject Matter

Its theme is the Hereafter, Tauhid and refutation of the Makkan disbelievers' suspicions about the Qur'an. What they regarded as utterly incredible was that Resurrection would ever take place, then the entire system of the earth and heavens would be upset, and when all the dead would be resurrected and called to account, after which the righteous would be admitted to Paradise and the wicked cast into Hell. They regarded all this as imaginary, which could not possibly happen in actual fact. In answer to this, it was said: "When the inevitable event will take place, there will be none to belie its happening, nor will anyone have the Power to avert it, nor prove it to, be an unreal happening. At that time all peoples will be divided into three classes: (1) The foremost in rank and position; (2) the common righteous people and (3) those who denied the Hereafter and persisted in disbelief and polytheism and major sins till the last." How these three classes of the people will be rewarded and punished has been described in detail in vv. 7-56.
Syed Maududi's Commentary for Surah #56
It has nothing to do with some Muslims being foremost over other Muslims.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-10-2016, 01:21 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,580,662 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
However if one reads the entire surah they should realize that what is be spoken of is all people will be divided into 3 groups and the Muslims will be the foremost group.

It has nothing to do with some Muslims being foremost over other Muslims.
I wondered whether you have read all the relevant verses in chapter 56.

Note 56:1-10
7. And ye [people] will be three kinds:
8. (First) those [Muslims] on the right hand; what of those on the right
9. And (then -2nd) those [infidels & sinners] on the left hand; what of those on the left hand?
10. And [3rd] the foremost in the race, the foremost in the race:
Those on the right hand are Muslims.
This is confirmed by the rewards accorded as in 56:27-40 for those Muslims on the right hand.
There is no way non-Muslims are accorded such rewards in Paradise.

The above proved there are two groups of Muslims, i.e.
1. Muslim in the The foremosts [Ist class]
2. Muslims on the right hand [2nd class]

Therefore there are different classes of achievers for Muslims.
Note Allah mentioned many times Muslims are ranked in terms of grades and degrees.

Syed Maududi commentary fall short of explaining these two classes of Muslims.

I can understand your sentiment in not expecting Muslims to compete, but the Quran explicitly exhort Muslims to vie with one another, if not in strict competition but at least in a friendly competition.
Point is, if the Quran was really written by an all powerful god, he would not exhort his followers to compete. The reality is there is no God and the Quran was authored by human[s] who divide and rule and motivated followers to compete so it benefit the controllers. If they compete [or nudged] to pay more zakat, they will get more funds for their wars.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-10-2016, 02:22 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,035,813 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I wondered whether you have read all the relevant verses in chapter 56.

Note 56:1-10
7. And ye [people] will be three kinds:
8. (First) those [Muslims] on the right hand; what of those on the right
9. And (then -2nd) those [infidels & sinners] on the left hand; what of those on the left hand?
10. And [3rd] the foremost in the race, the foremost in the race:
Those on the right hand are Muslims.
This is confirmed by the rewards accorded as in 56:27-40 for those Muslims on the right hand.
There is no way non-Muslims are accorded such rewards in Paradise.

The above proved there are two groups of Muslims, i.e.
1. Muslim in the The foremosts [Ist class]
2. Muslims on the right hand [2nd class]

Therefore there are different classes of achievers for Muslims.
Note Allah mentioned many times Muslims are ranked in terms of grades and degrees.

Syed Maududi commentary fall short of explaining these two classes of Muslims.

I can understand your sentiment in not expecting Muslims to compete, but the Quran explicitly exhort Muslims to vie with one another, if not in strict competition but at least in a friendly competition.
Point is, if the Quran was really written by an all powerful god, he would not exhort his followers to compete. The reality is there is no God and the Quran was authored by human[s] who divide and rule and motivated followers to compete so it benefit the controllers. If they compete [or nudged] to pay more zakat, they will get more funds for their wars.
Continuum,

You need to get this idea of your head hat the Muslims are in a competition, in a race with each other, might be in this chapter. The chapter is about EVENT that is yet to pass.

Read it carefully about "numerous from the first and numerous from the last". These are ordinary righteous Muslims. But the Foremost are not numerous from the last. Therefore, mention of the Foremest is not only the righteous Muslims but of a distinct category mentioned different but within "the companions of the right hand". The only clear sign mentioned for their dstinction is that they are near Allah. Now you have to use your knowledge about the Qur'an to know who these created beings are that are near Allah. They are not numerous from the last but other companions of the right hand ARE numerous from the last. This group that is not nuerous from the last can't be competing with the numerous from the last.

By the way, if you are looking for the second verse I had mentioned, this (the formost the foremost) is not the one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-10-2016, 04:41 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,272,269 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I wondered whether you have read all the relevant verses in chapter 56.

Note 56:1-10
7. And ye [people] will be three kinds:
8. (First) those [Muslims] on the right hand; what of those on the right
9. And (then -2nd) those [infidels & sinners] on the left hand; what of those on the left hand?
10. And [3rd] the foremost in the race, the foremost in the race:
Those on the right hand are Muslims.
This is confirmed by the rewards accorded as in 56:27-40 for those Muslims on the right hand.
There is no way non-Muslims are accorded such rewards in Paradise.

The above proved there are two groups of Muslims, i.e.
1. Muslim in the The foremosts [Ist class]
2. Muslims on the right hand [2nd class]

Therefore there are different classes of achievers for Muslims.
Note Allah mentioned many times Muslims are ranked in terms of grades and degrees.

Syed Maududi commentary fall short of explaining these two classes of Muslims.

I can understand your sentiment in not expecting Muslims to compete, but the Quran explicitly exhort Muslims to vie with one another, if not in strict competition but at least in a friendly competition.
Point is, if the Quran was really written by an all powerful god, he would not exhort his followers to compete. The reality is there is no God and the Quran was authored by human[s] who divide and rule and motivated followers to compete so it benefit the controllers. If they compete [or nudged] to pay more zakat, they will get more funds for their wars.
Working backwards. Zakat does not go to any leaders. It is charity to be given to the poor. Using Muhammad(saws) as an example he died owning nothing.

Looking at 56:1-10

While in 56:10 a literal word for word translation is: "and the Foremost the Foremost" it is understandable how Pickthall came up with his translation as both Foremost (Sabiqoon) and Race (Sabaq) both come from the same root (Sabiq)

This still is not dividing Muslims into Categories. Just saying that we will all be rewarded in accordance with our deeds. (That is judged individually as we are judged in accordance with our abilities) No competition is possible as there are different standards for each person based upon knowledge and ability. No one will be judged or penalized for what they can not do.or have no way of knowing.

It is physically impossible for me to ever do Hajj. That is not going to be held against me. If I have a sincere desire to do Hajj I will be rewarded for Hajj as long as it is not my own choices that make it impossible for not being able to do Hajj. We all are responsible only to the extent of which we can do. If there is any competition it is our own inner Jihad to overcome our desire to do only the minimum we are capable or.That is a much more difficult competition than we could ever have in relation to other Muslims. I am not less than Khalif because he has done Hajj and I never will unless my physical condition changes. Khalif and I are not competing with each other, we each are competing with our self.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2016, 12:23 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,580,662 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Continuum,

You need to get this idea of your head hat the Muslims are in a competition, in a race with each other, might be in this chapter. The chapter is about EVENT that is yet to pass.

Read it carefully about "numerous from the first and numerous from the last". These are ordinary righteous Muslims. But the Foremost are not numerous from the last. Therefore, mention of the Foremest is not only the righteous Muslims but of a distinct category mentioned different but within "the companions of the right hand". The only clear sign mentioned for their dstinction is that they are near Allah. Now you have to use your knowledge about the Qur'an to know who these created beings are that are near Allah. They are not numerous from the last but other companions of the right hand ARE numerous from the last. This group that is not nuerous from the last can't be competing with the numerous from the last.

By the way, if you are looking for the second verse I had mentioned, this (the formost the foremost) is not the one.
I had stated, I do not mean Muslims are exhorted to get into fierce competition with each other.


Read it carefully about "numerous from the first and numerous from the last".

Where did you get the term "numerous"?

This chapter 56 is about what will happened on Judgment Day.
On Judgement Day, there will be 3 types of people, i.e.

1. Non-Muslim who will go to Hell
2. Muslims - who will go the Paradise but of two groups, i.e.
.....(i) the foremost
.....(ii) the not-so-foremost [on the right hand].

The subsequent verses mentioned the punishment for non-Muslims and the foremost and the not-so-foremost are accorded different degrees of rewards in Paradise.

The above prove my point there are different grades and ranking of Muslims [general] and they are rewarded differently on Judgment Day.

I do not mean Muslims must have fierce competition amongst themselves, but there are many verses in the Quran that exhort Muslims 'loose' to vie with one another and to be the best. In this case the best would be the foremost.
Btw, there are many verses in the Quran where Allah compare Muslims of different categories and assure the better ones will be highly rewarded.

One will note the foremost would include those who strive strongly for the cause of Allah with their wealth and their life, i.e. the martyrs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2016, 12:29 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,580,662 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Working backwards. Zakat does not go to any leaders. It is charity to be given to the poor. Using Muhammad(saws) as an example he died owning nothing.
Zakat can be used to fund wars [physical and ideological] in the interests of Islam and Muslims?

Quote:
Looking at 56:1-10

While in 56:10 a literal word for word translation is: "and the Foremost the Foremost" it is understandable how Pickthall came up with his translation as both Foremost (Sabiqoon) and Race (Sabaq) both come from the same root (Sabiq)

This still is not dividing Muslims into Categories. Just saying that we will all be rewarded in accordance with our deeds. (That is judged individually as we are judged in accordance with our abilities) No competition is possible as there are different standards for each person based upon knowledge and ability. No one will be judged or penalized for what they can not do.or have no way of knowing.

It is physically impossible for me to ever do Hajj. That is not going to be held against me. If I have a sincere desire to do Hajj I will be rewarded for Hajj as long as it is not my own choices that make it impossible for not being able to do Hajj. We all are responsible only to the extent of which we can do. If there is any competition it is our own inner Jihad to overcome our desire to do only the minimum we are capable or.That is a much more difficult competition than we could ever have in relation to other Muslims. I am not less than Khalif because he has done Hajj and I never will unless my physical condition changes. Khalif and I are not competing with each other, we each are competing with our self.
All the English translators I provided translate a sense of race and competition.
While I agree it does not mean fierce competitions that will trigger pride, it is a competition [race] in a sense or competing within oneself of getting a greater assurance to please Allah and going to Paradise expeditiously.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2016, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,272,269 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Zakat can be used to fund wars [physical and ideological] in the interests of Islam and Muslims?

All the English translators I provided translate a sense of race and competition.
While I agree it does not mean fierce competitions that will trigger pride, it is a competition [race] in a sense or competing within oneself of getting a greater assurance to please Allah and going to Paradise expeditiously.
Zakat is one of these words that has multiple meanings depending upon how it is pronounced, what word precedes it or follows it and it's context within a phrae. But it has 2 mostly used meanings Tax or Charity. Usually dariba is used when referring to tax for secular uses or for that paid by non-Muslims.

Zakat means Charity. Which is the Required Zakat in the 5 Pillars of Islam. As this is an Islamic obligation it is not an obligation to non-Muslims. Zakat 2.5% the total value of everything a Muslim owns minus specific items such as minimal food, minimal furnishings etc. It is actually quite complex to calculate. We are not to reveal how much we give in Zakat or who is the recipient. The Recipient should not know our identity.

While it is possible for nMuslims to donate to charities (and most do) it is impossible for a non-Muslim to give Zakat as that is Charity obligated upon only Muslims Muslim should also donate to charities that are not included in Zakat and are non-obligatory free-will giving that does not count as Zakat.

Zakat also means Support of the Nation or community. This can be considered part of a Muslims obligatory Zakat if it is for the overall benefit of the community. There are varying opinions as to when it means military force or who has the authority to declare a war against a military force. The most common opinion is that has to be a Calph. Which we currently do not have and many believe will not have until the arrival of the Mehdi and the return of Jesus(a.s.) by definition a Caliph has to be chosen by 100% of all Muslims. Not simply a majority but 100% of all Muslims. That has only occurred under the first 4 caliphs.

I agree many probably most translations give a sense of race and competition. But that is not the concept the Arabic text imparts.A person reading in Arabic is not going to have any reason to have the concept of competition. Perhaps it is because there is no word with the exact meaning of Sabiq and attempts are made to use English words that approximate the Definition of Sabiq. It carries with it a sense of rushing, but not of a race. Have to think of it more like a one-person race in which you are the only competitor and your goal is to match and even attempt to exceed your abilities as soon as possible.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2016, 11:37 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,580,662 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Zakat is one of these words that has multiple meanings depending upon how it is pronounced, what word precedes it or follows it and it's context within a phrae. But it has 2 mostly used meanings Tax or Charity. Usually dariba is used when referring to tax for secular uses or for that paid by non-Muslims.

Zakat means Charity. Which is the Required Zakat in the 5 Pillars of Islam. As this is an Islamic obligation it is not an obligation to non-Muslims. Zakat 2.5% the total value of everything a Muslim owns minus specific items such as minimal food, minimal furnishings etc. It is actually quite complex to calculate. We are not to reveal how much we give in Zakat or who is the recipient. The Recipient should not know our identity.

While it is possible for nMuslims to donate to charities (and most do) it is impossible for a non-Muslim to give Zakat as that is Charity obligated upon only Muslims Muslim should also donate to charities that are not included in Zakat and are non-obligatory free-will giving that does not count as Zakat.

Zakat also means Support of the Nation or community. This can be considered part of a Muslims obligatory Zakat if it is for the overall benefit of the community. There are varying opinions as to when it means military force or who has the authority to declare a war against a military force. The most common opinion is that has to be a Calph. Which we currently do not have and many believe will not have until the arrival of the Mehdi and the return of Jesus(a.s.) by definition a Caliph has to be chosen by 100% of all Muslims. Not simply a majority but 100% of all Muslims. That has only occurred under the first 4 caliphs.
Where zakat is specifically defined and set for charity [as stated in the Quran] then it a sin to use it for other purposes.
Where zakat is not specifically set aside for charity then it is open to be used for the causes of Allah, i.e. to defend Islam and Muslims against threats.

Allah in the Quran exhorted Muslims to strive for the causes of Allah with their Wealth [money, etc.] and life for the cause of Allah. Then Allah added those who do that are the prefer ones and will be rewarded highly. In addition Allah stated whatever is owned on this Earth is an illusion and what is in the hereafter is preferred. The above is set against the promise of eternal life and the threat of going to hell.

I am not referring to 100% Muslim, but there will be percentage say 20% [conservatively] who will be influenced by the above exhortations to do more than others to please Allah. In this sense and with those verses that has some sense of 'vying' in them, they will make comparison to ensure they are one up on others so as to please Allah and get more assurance of going to paradise.

This was what happened with CAIR who directed funds to the terrorists and other evil prone Muslims.
http://www.investigativeproject.org/...s/misc/122.pdf

It is the way the verses in the Quran are presented that contribute to the above scenario.

Quote:
I agree many probably most translations give a sense of race and competition. But that is not the concept the Arabic text imparts.A person reading in Arabic is not going to have any reason to have the concept of competition. Perhaps it is because there is no word with the exact meaning of Sabiq and attempts are made to use English words that approximate the Definition of Sabiq. It carries with it a sense of rushing, but not of a race. Have to think of it more like a one-person race in which you are the only competitor and your goal is to match and even attempt to exceed your abilities as soon as possible.
Note all the English translators are familiar with Arabic and some could be very expert in Arabic.
I don't think these translators would simply use the term race, vie with one another, or compete without good reasons.
I am sure those who read those verses solely in Arabic would also got a sense of 'race' competition, vie and the likes. Check out some other Arabic commentaries and see what they imply?

If Sabiq represent "rushing" it can still tend toward 'race' or 'vie' but not exactly fierce competition like a 100 meter race or boxing match in the Olympics.
The essence is not doing things merely in a rush but hastening to do more than normal or more than the other.

The reality then was the Quran was authored by Muhammad or a group of people.
There is no mentioned in the Quran Muhammad [when he was preaching], his companions and followers had serious occupation or work. Thus they would need funds to support to pay the wages of the soldiers and other expenses when there is no war booties to distribute.
These verses that exhort Muslims to race, compete or vie with one another in haste [rush] in good deeds including striving with wealth is one way of getting funds from the Muslims then.
The above become a doctrine that is applicable to all Muslims thereafter, now and the future.

Last edited by Continuum; 04-11-2016 at 11:56 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top